Whats a good 'Tank' class in Core n Completes with a bit of magic?

[Bloodgruve]

Hey Playgrounders,

Got a new guy joining a group. He wants to play a 'Shadowknight' type class. Tanky with either a pet, some magic or both. He doesn't want a standard Paladin. Our group has a Transmute Wizard, scouty Clawlock, summoning Cleric/Malconvoker, dumb Barbarian and an IC Bard.

I've suggested Dungeon Crasher Fighter, which doesn't have a pet or magic. Paladin of Freedom is another. What others are there. Psionic Warrior maybe? Kinda drawing a blank. Sources are Core, Completes, ToM and maybe PHB2.

Thanks,

Blood~

[Drackstin]

Hey Playgrounders,

Got a new guy joining a group. He wants to play a 'Shadowknight' type class. Tanky with either a pet, some magic or both. He doesn't want a standard Paladin. Our group has a Transmute Wizard, scouty Clawlock, summoning Cleric/Malconvoker, dumb Barbarian and an IC Bard.

I've suggested Dungeon Crasher Fighter, which doesn't have a pet or magic. Paladin of Freedom is another. What others are there. Psionic Warrior maybe? Kinda drawing a blank. Sources are Core, Completes, ToM and maybe PHB2.

Thanks,

Blood~

i would say use the paladin of tyranny from UA, it has blackguard type spells. or just use the blackguard spell list, it has summon monster, and a evil mount

[eggynack]

A melee inclined cleric would work quite well for this, as would a druid. The former has a more direct style of tanking, while the latter tends to rely on summons and the companion, but can tank for itself if it wants.

[ace rooster]

Abjurant champion is nice, and if you want to be more combat focused it only requires a single level of caster to qualify. Eldritch knight is more magic focused, and only loses you two levels of full casting. Really though, for versitility, power, and cool factor a warshaper is hard to beat. Master of many forms is also nice, if you go the druid route.

Beastmaster is nice for a better pet, which brings your companion up to druid level if you enter it from ranger. It gives you a decent animal companion no matter where you enter from, but the skill focus prerequisite, and wanting to take natural bond as well make it a feat heavy dip for a brown bear pet. Still very nice at level 7 if you have feats going spare, and handle animal can be used anyway.

Effigy master is quite nice, giving you 'pets'. The summoner probably has that covered though.

[lytokk]

There's always the wild cohort feat to get a pet. I don't know what the new web address is since wizard archived all their articles.

[Talionis]

If you have Magic of Incarnum, I'd suggest Incarnate. It can get insane amounts of Hit Points has some limited magic that lasts 24 a day. It can have a pet with the Soulspark or Necrocarnum Zombie.

On any of these characters the Goad Feat from PHB2 is nice for a character trying to perform a Tanking Role. You might also want to look at the Knight class from the same book.

[ComaVision]

Since he's a new player, you could just do a straight class Duskblade.

[cesius]

Duskblade from the PHB2 and the Obtain Familiar feat from Complete Arcane would be a simple solution that scratches all the itches. If the PHB2 is not available then I also recommend Psychic Warrior with the Psicrystal Affinity feat.

[sonofzeal]

Hexblade fits the bill perfectly, although I'd use the (un)official fix from the class's designer.

[Rebel7284]

Pity Tome of Battle is not on the allowed list. Crusaders make great tanks and Ruby Knight Vindicator prestige class is possibly the best tank prestige class in the game.

[geekintheground]

if i remember correctly, the knight class does a decent job tanking. and the wild cohort feat gives you an animal companion similar to the druids, but a bit weaker

[Waker]

Duskblade would be the easiest to play straight out of the box. Has good BAB, armor and weapons, decent hp and an ok selection of spell, though it is lacking in spells to channel.
Hexblade with the unofficial fix would also work fine, as many of it's spells are focused on debuffing and it comes with a familiar. Improved Familiar works well with it.
Incarnate is a fun class, though I wouldn't recommend it unless someone at your table is conversant with the Incarnum subsystem.
As for prestige classes, there is no shortage of the sword/spell mix. Eldritch Knight, Spellsword, Abjurant Champion, Suel Arcanamach, Swiftblade, Divine Crusader...

[Bloodgruve]

Thanks for all the input.

We looked at Hexblade, armor prof's were a problem. Same with Duskblade. These can be worked around but I don't think it fit his vision, oddly enough.

Unfortunately Incarnum is off the table, so is ToB. We're limited on the books that the DM has. I've played an Incarnate and sat next to a Crusader. Both are great...

Maybe a multi/prestiege class would fit here.

Keep um coming, its appreciated.

[deuxhero]

I came into this topic to suggest Malconvoker, but it seems you have one in your party already. Honestly that is plenty of tank at higher levels.

If Psy War is open but ToB is not, Psy War really is the best option.

The Horizon Tripper build is an option for core only, but it can get way better with complete (and I presume SRD) open for pounce and wildshape ranger (to regain your fast movement). Teleport everywhere and pounce at stuff

Actually, Wildshape Ranger on its own is a good melee option.

[cesius]

armor prof's were a problem.... These can be worked around but I don't think it fit his vision, oddly enough.

Too much or too little? I don't know what a Shadowknight is so I'm not sure which way it needs to go.

[Talionis]

How well do you know ToM? Binder is in there and Knight of Sacred Seal is in there. Some of the Binds are Knight like and KoSS is knight like. You have many pets over the different levels. Enough magic to feel non-mundane. KoSS will probably ground you in a vestige that helps you feel Knight like. I think its Andras, but that might not be right I'm away from books. I personally like Tenebrous with lots of Divine Feats.

[Bloodgruve]

Too much or too little? I don't know what a Shadowknight is so I'm not sure which way it needs to go.

Shadowknight is a reference to the old EQ1. Basically a necro/fighter. Runs around with a skeleton pet debuffing and tossing around a bit of magic. I thought hexblade was a shoe-in but he's got his own ideas on how to setup a 'tank'. Seems Heavy Armor is a prereq for him, which isn't hard for Hexblade to get into with a feat and special material.


How well do you know ToM? Binder is in there and Knight of Sacred Seal is in there. Some of the Binds are Knight like and KoSS is knight like. You have many pets over the different levels. Enough magic to feel non-mundane. KoSS will probably ground you in a vestige that helps you feel Knight like. I think its Andras, but that might not be right I'm away from books. I personally like Tenebrous with lots of Divine Feats.

I would have suggested Binder had it not been for the fact that I am waiting for my character to die so I can roll one up ;)

Horizon Tripper and Wild Shape Ranger are great suggestions too.

TYVM
Blood~

[Vortenger]

I'm Assuming this game is 3.5, but you may wish to take a look at the PF anti-paladin. It has the Dark Knight appeal, some casting, and a summon monster effect that doesn't end. Complete with weapons, armor, and cruelties. You may have to ask to have the alignment restriction changed to lawful.

Otherwise the Blackguard PrC is exactly what you're asking for (if not entirely optimal). Bone Knight from Eberron can achieve much the same ends (and is more optimal). In this case I'd suggest Paladin of Tyranny -> Bone Knight -> Dip 2 levels of Blackguard after level 9 to claim all those (moderately) juicy rewards for falling as a paladin without giving up your paladin powers. Then back to Bone Knight for continued quantities of awesome sauce. Adding in 4 levels of Hexblade raises your saving throws to obscene levels when used in tandem with the preceding and makes you a vortex of penalties against your enemies, and doesn't detract from the feel at all.

[Amphetryon]

Hexblade fits the bill perfectly, although I'd use the (un)official fix from the class's designer.

This, along with the Dark Companion variant.

[Deadline]

Shadowknight is a reference to the old EQ1. Basically a necro/fighter. Runs around with a skeleton pet debuffing and tossing around a bit of magic. I thought hexblade was a shoe-in but he's got his own ideas on how to setup a 'tank'. Seems Heavy Armor is a prereq for him, which isn't hard for Hexblade to get into with a feat and special material.

You can do the same thing with Duskblade and the Battlecaster feat. What's the starting level?

For feats you can snag Battlecaster, Wild Cohort (or Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar for something from the list in Complete Warrior), and Arcane Strike by 9th level. That lets you tank in heavy armor (full plate and heavy shield) with some good spells, burn some of your numerous spell slots to hit hard, and have something like a hippogriff as your "pet".

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Warforged Duskblade with Adamantine Body and Battle Caster could work. Pick up Wild Cohort or Obtain Familiar + Improved Familiar or even (Undead) Leadership, or if the DM is feeling nice Obtain Familiar and trade it out for the Skeletal Minion ACF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#skeletalMinion). Consider picking up Mother Cyst from LM for more of a necromancy feel.

(Fallen) Paladin or one of its nongood variants into Bone Knight would be pretty close to perfect. Paladin 4/ Bone Knight 4/ Divine Crusader 1/ Bone Knight 6/ PrCs 5 with a domain like Wrath for Divine Crusader is actually quite decent. Pick up Contemplative and other domain-granting prestige classes at the end to expand Divine Crusader's spell list.

[Grayson01]

Shadowknight is a reference to the old EQ1. Basically a necro/fighter. Runs around with a skeleton pet debuffing and tossing around a bit of magic. I thought hexblade was a shoe-in but he's got his own ideas on how to setup a 'tank'. Seems Heavy Armor is a prereq for him, which isn't hard for Hexblade to get into with a feat and special material.



I would have suggested Binder had it not been for the fact that I am waiting for my character to die so I can roll one up ;)

Horizon Tripper and Wild Shape Ranger are great suggestions too.

TYVM
Blood~

Have you looked at Dread Necromancer? It's in Heroes of Horror, but DnDtool (google it) has the whole class on there maybe you can talk the DM into allowing it. Will a little build help it can make it's way towards a Tank.

[Jigawatts]

He wants to play a 'Shadowknight' type class.
Somebody was an Everquest player. :smalltongue:

SK was always the most fun of the tank classes (with the possible exception of a Pally whilst fighting undead), so many cool toys at your disposal, plus they had one of the best looking Epics in the game.

Do you/him still play?

[sideswipe]

abjurant champion all the way.

the only real way to tank in D&D is to have a high ac and enough hit points to survive most hits. the abjurant champion (good aligned) can get really significant boosts to AC, at high levels pushing it above 50 with ease. has a decent HD, has full base attack and can create a very decent gish class. you could take the base as duskblade, and create a very decent combat oriented class. but i would instead go martial wizard. at level 8 entering abjurant champion. or take a level of something with full base attack to get in quicker. but you are losing that important caster level. if you guys don't play with much optimisation then i suggest

wizard 7/ abjurant champion 5/ whatever 8 (innitiate of the sevenfold veil?) that would give you full casting as a wizard and be a very good tank and have a BAB of +17 i think.

you could then look for the correct spells to use. all abjurations that increase a different type of bonus to armour

http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/luminous-armor--7/
thats a very useful spell.

as an example, you get 10 +10 luminous armour, +9 shield spell, +10 ish from nat armour spell, +10 ish from deflection spell (you see where im going with this?)

[Gwendol]

Aren't Sorcadins considered Gish?

Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Sacred Exorcist 8

[Bloodgruve]

Thanks for all the replies. He decided to pet 'tank' as an Animate Dead sorcerer.. I guess he really didn't know what he wanted to start with. I may suggest Sorcadin to him.

Regardless there are now a number of builds I put on my list that I want to try. Abjurant Champ and Sorcadin for sure. My Duskblade didn't survive long.. '25 XP till next level, we gotta find a fight before we get back to town.. I got hit for how much? Meh I not a problem I have enough HP to... Crap, I forgot to heal.. Wonder what I should reroll as...'



Somebody was an Everquest player. :smalltongue:

SK was always the most fun of the tank classes (with the possible exception of a Pally whilst fighting undead), so many cool toys at your disposal, plus they had one of the best looking Epics in the game.

Do you/him still play?

He still plays on a private server. I logged on a couple months ago, spent minutes killing an even con mob with my Bard n Merc. Went back to town n played around with my illusion masks for a bit n basked in the nostalgia. Logged off wondering if I'd ever level cap before they shut the game down... MMO's now days have spoiled us with instant gratification and almost no death penalty ;)

Thanks much,

Blood~

[ben-zayb]

Just want to point out that Mithral Full-Plate counts as medium armor.

[Jigawatts]

He still plays on a private server. I logged on a couple months ago, spent minutes killing an even con mob with my Bard n Merc. Went back to town n played around with my illusion masks for a bit n basked in the nostalgia. Logged off wondering if I'd ever level cap before they shut the game down... MMO's now days have spoiled us with instant gratification and almost no death penalty ;)

Thanks much,

Blood~
Check out a little thing called Project 1999. :smallwink:

[Stormageddon]

Blackguard? Might it fit the bill.

[Jeff the Green]

Thanks for all the replies. He decided to pet 'tank' as an Animate Dead sorcerer.. I guess he really didn't know what he wanted to start with. I may suggest Sorcadin to him.

Sorcerers make rather miserable necromancers. You're better off with Cleric, Dread Necromancer, or Deathmaster (Dragon Compendium). The problem is that Sorcerers don't get animate dead until 8th level, they have limited spells known and that's not one you'll be casting every day, and they don't have any class features that work with raising undead. Clerics get it three levels earlier at 5th, Deathmasters at 3rd, and while Dread Necromancers get it at 8th too, they have features that make it very good and other nifty things to do before then like summoning undead. Plus all of them get Rebuke Undead, which is very, very useful with proper equipment.