5.0 Rough & Tumble Sorcerer

[KevlarTheD]

After taking my first look at all the 5.0 material, I've come up with a few semi-optimized character builds. This is the character I'm likely to start playing in a few weeks when we kick off our campaign. Let me know your thoughts, please!

The idea is that he's a half-wild mystery man / witch doctor who arrived on a ship from an unknown port. Unarmored, but uses a large shield. Stylistically, his shield will play a role with his character - think a way toned-down Captain America - for example he would have gotten it in some special way, it will be decorated with strange markings, etc.

The goal is that the rest of the party will initially see him as a tank/combat character, then as the game progresses they will come to view him as a flexible, survivable magic user. Any character hooks pop into mind?



Race: Half-Elf. Background: Pirate

Proficiencies: Athletics, Intimidation, Survival, Perception

Major equipment: the +2 Shield always. Rapier at lower levels, or really any one-handed finesse weapon, until magic is a thing.

Stats using the 27-point buy system, plus +2CHA, +1DEX, +1CON for being a half-elf
STR 10 (+0)
DEX 16 (+3)
CON 16 (+ 3)
INT 8 (-1)
WIS 12 (+1)
CHA 17 (+3)


Class Levels:

Level 1 - Barbarian - Unarmored Defense, Intimidation, Survival, Shield proficiency

Level 2 - Sorcerer - Draconic Resilience

Level 3 - Fighter - Dueling style, Second Wind

Level 4 - Fighter - Action Surge

Level 5 Onwards - Sorcerer - straight sorc til 20 for the caster levels



A few highlights of the build:

- at Level 2, unarmored with shield = AC 21. not bad.

- Shield Master feat at level 7 (that shield tho)

- War Caster feat at level 11 (by the time I have enough spells to really want it)

- quickened spells + action surge = potentially 3 spells cast in one turn?

- dragon wings at sorc14 and I don't have to worry about custom armor.

Questions:

Is it just me, or are half-elves one of the best racial picks in general? +4 stat points, 2 skill proficiencies, darkvision. I know variant humans are popular for the feat.

ability score increases come every 4th class level, not every 4th character level, correct? otherwise I get my feats faster.

[Dindras]

Where's the 21 AC coming from?

Its either 10 + 3(dex) + 3(con) + 2 (shield)=18 via Unarmored Defense, or its 13+ 3(dex)+2(shield)=18 from draconic resilience. As they don't stack, since they both specify what your AC equation is.

[KevlarTheD]

Where's the 21 AC coming from?

Its either 10 + 3(dex) + 3(con) + 2 (shield)=18 via Unarmored Defense, or its 13+ 3(dex)+2(shield)=18 from draconic resilience. As they don't stack, since they both specify what your AC equation is.

As far as I understand, the Unarmored Defense features from Monk and Barbarian don't stack with each other, but the Draconic Resilience ability is a different feature entirely. It functions in a fundamentally different manner.

It doesn't add to[/B] your armor class but, similar to Mage Armor (with which I imagine Draconic Resilience does not stack), increases your base AC from 10+mods to 13+mods.


So, my math was

Base AC 13 (Draconic Resilience) + 3 DEX + 3 CON (Unarmored Defense) + 2 Shield = 21.

Of course, as you just pointed out, this could be totally wrong. I will re-read the applicable paragraphs when I get home later. Hooray for communities like this! Guidance!

[Shadow]

It's one or the other. You calculate your AC either by the method described by sorc or by barb. Neither of them tells you to add as a bonus. They both give you a way to calculate it. You have to choose which you want.

[Beige]

draconic resilience dosen't stack with unarmoured defense due to wording - both of them replace your standard AC, so unarmoured defense makes it 10 + con + dex OR draconic resilience makes it 13 + dex

since both replace the standard rule, the one you got earlier takes precedence

there is a specific rule for the two versions of unarmoured defence, but that's because a case can be made quite strongly that you're still replacing it with the same class feature - it just gets wis and con

[HugeC]

Stats using the 27-point buy system, plus +2CHA, +1DEX, +1CON for being a half-elf
STR 10 (+0)
DEX 16 (+3)
CON 16 (+ 3)
INT 8 (-1)
WIS 12 (+1)
CHA 17 (+3)

I think your math is a bit off. That looks like 2 + 9 + 9 + 0 + 4 + 9 = 33 points.

I was thinking a similar build for a dragonborn sorcerer. Since they don't get a bonus to Dex, I decided to go Fighter for the first 2 levels to get heavy armor and action surge, then sorcerer for the rest. Is the custom armor for the wings a big deal?

Edit: Jeez, my math was off twice!

[Theodoxus]

Questions:

Is it just me, or are half-elves one of the best racial picks in general? +4 stat points, 2 skill proficiencies, darkvision. I know variant humans are popular for the feat.

ability score increases come every 4th class level, not every 4th character level, correct? otherwise I get my feats faster.

Since everyone pointed out the issues with your build (correctly) I'll answer your questions, at least, IMO.

I agree that HElves are very good. But less so if you're building a non-cha based character (but given there are so many, it's still really good!) About the only things I wouldn't use a HElf for would be a non-face (or intimidate) barbarian or ranger. But I tend to make my barbies extra crunchy, so dwarves are my go to if I'm not grabbing the human feat.

You are correct concerning the ability score increases. I've houseruled that away though, to encourage multiclassing (my players grumbled a LOT). But I also play AL games... so I've seen both in action. My next campaign I'll let the players decide again, but will push for the RAW on ability/feat increases.

[KevlarTheD]

I think your math is a bit off. That looks like 2 + 9 + 9 + 0 + 4 + 9 = 33 points.

As to the math, I think I did add an extra 2 points in there. Should be 31 total between the point buy and racial bits. I would just drop WIS to 10 in that case.


Since everyone pointed out the issues with your build (correctly) I'll answer your questions, at least, IMO.


Yeah, this really got ripped apart! Good to know this stuff, though.

Thanks for taking the time to pick out and answer my actual questions.

[Person_Man]

My thoughts:

As others have pointed out, actual armor, Mage Armor, Unarmored Defense, and Draconic Resilience, each provides you with a different calculation for determining your AC. You use whichever one is most beneficial, but they don't stack. A Shield can add +2. The Shield spell can add +5 for 1 round, but it consumes your Reaction and uses a spell slot (unless you're a 17th+ level Wizard). Defensive Duelist can add your Proficiency bonus against 1 attack, but it consumes your Reaction.
Instead of Barbarian and/or Fighter, you could take 2 levels of Paladin. In addition to granting you full armor/shield/weapons, because multi-classing expands your spell slots, a Paladin/Sorcerer would get a lot of Smite uses. You'd also only lose 1 level of spell slot progression, instead of 3.
The Shield Master Feat (Bonus Action Shove) is only worth taking if your default action is going to be taking the Attack action, which is required to trigger it. As a Sorcerer, your default action most turns is going to be casting a spell. There's also no point in taking it if your Bonus Action is already spoken for (ie, lots of spells and other class abilities are also Bonus Actions).
Alternatively, you could just play a Bard (or Paladin/Bard), since it fits the "magical pirate" theme a lot better. They get light armor, rapier proficiency, and even the option of Extra Attack, which would make melee at mid levels a viable option.
If you do go with Fighter, it seems like the Defense (+1 AC while wearing armor) Fighting Style would be more useful then Dueling (+2 damage when using a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons). Again, as a Sorcerer you're likely to rely on spells most of the time, and not melee attacks.
For races, anything that grants +2 in the primary stat or for a class (or Dex or Con, since they're useful to almost everyone) and +1 in Dex or Con is an option worth considering. Gnomes Wizard, Half-Orcs Barbarian, Dwarf Cleric, etc.
Ability Score increases (which can also be traded for Feats) are class abilities. You get them when you take the appropriate level of a class. For example, a Fighters get them at levels 4, 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, 19 whereas a Wizards get them at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 19. (This is actually a bad thing for the Fighter, but that's another long discussion). So a Fighter 3/Wizard 3 gets no Ability Score Increases.
Similarly, you don't get the Extra Attack class ability unless you take at least 5 levels of Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, or Bard or Warlock with the right sub-class selection. And they don't stack if you get them more then once). This is important, because without an Extra Attack and/or some form of bonus damage, using the Attack action is rarely a viable option beyond mid-levels.

[TheOOB]

My thoughts:

As others have pointed out, actual armor, Mage Armor, Unarmored Defense, and Draconic Resilience, each provides you with a different calculation for determining your AC. You use whichever one is most beneficial, but they don't stack. A Shield can add +2. The Shield spell can add +5 for 1 round, but it consumes your Reaction and uses a spell slot (unless you're a 17th+ level Wizard). Defensive Duelist can add your Proficiency bonus against 1 attack, but it consumes your Reaction.
Instead of Barbarian and/or Fighter, you could take 2 levels of Paladin. In addition to granting you full armor/shield/weapons, because multi-classing expands your spell slots, a Paladin/Sorcerer would get a lot of Smite uses. You'd also only lose 1 level of spell slot progression, instead of 3.
The Shield Master Feat (Bonus Action Shove) is only worth taking if your default action is going to be taking the Attack action, which is required to trigger it. As a Sorcerer, your default action most turns is going to be casting a spell. There's also no point in taking it if your Bonus Action is already spoken for (ie, lots of spells and other class abilities are also Bonus Actions).
Alternatively, you could just play a Bard (or Paladin/Bard), since it fits the "magical pirate" theme a lot better. They get light armor, rapier proficiency, and even the option of Extra Attack, which would make melee at mid levels a viable option.
If you do go with Fighter, it seems like the Defense (+1 AC while wearing armor) Fighting Style would be more useful then Dueling (+2 damage when using a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons). Again, as a Sorcerer you're likely to rely on spells most of the time, and not melee attacks.
For races, anything that grants +2 in the primary stat or for a class (or Dex or Con, since they're useful to almost everyone) and +1 in Dex or Con is an option worth considering. Gnomes Wizard, Half-Orcs Barbarian, Dwarf Cleric, etc.
Ability Score increases (which can also be traded for Feats) are class abilities. You get them when you take the appropriate level of a class. For example, a Fighters get them at levels 4, 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, 19 whereas a Wizards get them at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 19. (This is actually a bad thing for the Fighter, but that's another long discussion). So a Fighter 3/Wizard 3 gets no Ability Score Increases.
Similarly, you don't get the Extra Attack class ability unless you take at least 5 levels of Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, or Bard or Warlock with the right sub-class selection. And they don't stack if you get them more then once). This is important, because without an Extra Attack and/or some form of bonus damage, using the Attack action is rarely a viable option beyond mid-levels.



Everything Personman said is correct. In addition, you can't multi class to or from barbarian without at least a 13 in strength. Bard seems like the right class for the character, the sorcerer, IMO, doesn't play well with other classes having so few spells known and so little flexibility, the sorcerer is all power, and being 3 levels behind in power takes that away too. A bard using a feat for more armor proficiencies would be a decent fighter, very skilled, very tough, and still be a full caster.

[1of3]

And remember that you can only use cantrips with your usual action, if you quicken a spell. So it's one quickened spell, one cantrip and maybe another spell with action surge.