What is up with the Gorillaz?

[heretic]

I really don't understand cartoon bands at all, least of all, this one.

There is exactly one song they have that I like and even then watching the creepy-ass music video is almost enough to make me reconsider.

Any thoughts on the Gorillaz and other bands like them?

[Amotis]

Yeah, the bubblegum pop of the brill building era. The Archies probably being the one everyone knows, cartoon bands basically of studio musicians that just kinda sell their image. But the Gorillaz actually tour and stuff now.

[Closet_Skeleton]

There is exactly one song they have that I like

That's because they try to be original and experimental. This usually means that they fail. They're not revolutionary at all but an experimental band that only produces good stuff isn't being experimental enough.

[Dragonrider]

I've never seen Gorillaz cartoons, only heard some of their songs. Namely, "Left Hand Suzuki Method", which I like because I did Suzuki piano for three-ish years (I still work out of those books but just on my own, without a teacher). I also have "Fire Coming Out of the Monkey's Head" and "Don't Get Lost in Heaven", which are amusing in a morbid kind of way. The range of styles they have is amazing.

[Jibar]

Ahh. I love Gorillaz.
I love the music, the videos all feel unique, and...the thought that's gone into it all...
I mean, look at their website...at the wikipedia entries...
They have this whole creepy world going on.
I haven't even explored much of Kong Studios because Satan screamed at me in the bathroom.
It's crazy...you don't find this level of depth for a lot of things today.

[Totally Guy]

I really like the movie Daft Punk made. They created a cartoon band and although it looks like the first song is merely a music video it goes on to tell an epic tale. It's oone from Leiji Matsumoto the guy that virtually invented the space opera!
Part 1 on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsuyGgcmsjY)
I don't know it was released outside of Europe but I wholeheartedly recommend it to anime fans that have not heard of it.

Edit: This link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BD95yfnK5k) might play through better as the same user has uploaded all parts wheras other users have numbered all parts differently.

[Calamity]

I like Gorillaz for the large range of styles they use, comapr Feel Good Inc to Dare. Both big hits (Well in Britain anyway, Dare didn't do so well in America. Even though it was #1 here for a week, although Feel Good Inc. lasted longer in the charts.) They are extremley different tunes. Experimental? Definetly. And I'd say it's a pretty successful experiment.

[BrokenButterfly]

I don't care one iota that they're a cartoon band, or whether they're experimental or whatever, I just like their music.

I bought Demon Days at about the time that Dare was released as a single, and I loved most of the tracks on it. I didn't feel that all of it worked, but there was so much variety on the album that I felt it didn't matter in the end. My favourite tracks on the album were the three that were released as singles, especially Feel Good Inc, as well as El Manana and O Green World.

[Penguinizer]

I like the range of styles. And the fact that most the lyrics have meaning in them. And the songs are great aswell.

19-2000 is probably my favorite. Mainly for the relaxed feel of the song.
Some close seconds are Clint eastwood, tomorrow comes today, rock the house, soundcheck (Gravity), and some others.

[Stagger Lee]

Their music is good, but the mass marketing can get tiresome...

[Mr Horse]

Being a fan of Deltron 3030 and the like, I can't help but be a fan of Gorillaz too :P

[Jack Squat]

I could say what's wrong with the gorillaz, but being that I'm listening to Loggins and Messina right now, i've pretty much lost any credibility in an argument of this matter

[NecroPaladin]

Gorillaz are idols to us animator-types.

I just think that it's awesome how 50 Cent spent an eternity saying that Gorillaz shouldn't win an MTV *EDIT: Amotis hath reminded me that it was the grammies, not MTV* award because they were 2-D characters who can't walk onto a real stage...and was promptly verbally pwn3d by the 3-D holograms who walked onto the real stage.

[Lemur]

I really like the movie Daft Punk made. They created a cartoon band and although it looks like the first song is merely a music video it goes on to tell an epic tale. It's oone from Leiji Matsumoto the guy that virtually invented the space opera!
Part 1 on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsuyGgcmsjY)
I don't know it was released outside of Europe but I wholeheartedly recommend it to anime fans that have not heard of it.

Edit: This link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BD95yfnK5k) might play through better as the same user has uploaded all parts wheras other users have numbered all parts differently.

I thank you, because watching this movie has improved the quality of my life.

I'm a sucker for comics and animation, so it's not surprising that Gorillaz interests me. I also like creepy-ass stuff too, so there you have it :smalltongue:

[Beleriphon]

I have to say that my favourite from Demon Days is White Light. That is a weird song.

[Dariendel]

I love Gorillaz too, for their uniqueness and style.

But I do want to see what Noodle looks like in real life.

[Totally Guy]

I thank you, because watching this movie has improved the quality of my life.

I'm really glad you liked it. It makes posting here worthwhile.

[Druid]

The Gorillaz are great. They may be strange and different but that just makes them interesting to listen to. I do wonder who the band members actually are.

[Calamity]

Noodle's voice actor is not the same person, in the album Gorillaz she had a different voice to Demon Days.

And 2-D's singing lyrics are sung by Dameon Albarn (sp?)

[heretic]

19-2000 is probably my favorite. Mainly for the relaxed feel of the song.
Some close seconds are Clint eastwood, tomorrow comes today, rock the house, soundcheck (Gravity), and some others.

That's the one.

[Raistlin1040]

Gorillaz are idols to us animator-types.

I just think that it's awesome how 50 Cent spent an eternity saying that Gorillaz shouldn't win an MTV award because they were 2-D characters who can't walk onto a real stage...and was promptly verbally pwn3d by the 3-D holograms who walked onto the real stage.
No that, I'd have to see. Link?

[Amotis]

Wasn't that the one where they sang with Madonna? Or was that the grammies?

Anyway, the people behind the Gorillaz are pretty well known.

quote from wiki:


Damon Albarn formed virtual cartoon rock band Gorillaz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorillaz) with Tank Girl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Girl) creator Jamie Hewlett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Hewlett) in 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998). With a decidedly ambiguous line-up, the group has released two full-length studio albums to date. Their music has featured contributions from Danger Mouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Mouse), Simon Tong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Tong) (who also played guitar for Blur in live performances), Miho Hatori (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miho_Hatori), Sweetie Irie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetie_Irie), De La Soul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_La_Soul), Bootie Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootie_Brown), MF Doom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MF_Doom), Redman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redman), Tina Weymouth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Weymouth), Roots Manuva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots_Manuva), Neneh Cherry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neneh_Cherry), Rosie Wilson, Martina Topley-Bird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martina_Topley-Bird), Dennis Hopper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Hopper), Ike Turner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ike_Turner), Shaun Ryder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Ryder) and Del tha Funkee Homosapien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien) among others.

[nows7]

In an interveiw with Neil Gaimen, the two creaters of the Gorrilaz said they wanted a "virtual band, that would be just as authentic as most studio created bands, to act as a comment on the practice" - Or something to that effect. Pretty much what he was saying is that they created the Gorrilaz as a commentary on how fake most of the bands these days are.

[FdL]

They're pretty good. I'm not a lot into them but I've heard interesting stuff other than the singles. I respect the fact that they experiment with diverse music styles. The cartoons are pretty cool. They're more real than "50 Cent", anyway. Jeez.

[Baalzebub]

For me Gorillaz's music comes first, then we can see if they are cartoons or not.

[Lorddarthpaul]

i agree with slug *i second that, me too!*

[FdL]

For me Gorillaz's music comes first, then we can see if they are cartoons or not.

Isn't that obvious? Well, at last for me it is. I've just posted in another thread complaining about the excessive attention that image has in the music industry. And this is another example, although with an intelligent, ironic twist.

The OP says he doesn't get cartoon bands. Well, I guess there's no thing as cartoon bands. There's a band, there's music and that's what should be important about it, I think.

[NecroPaladin]

Wasn't that the one where they sang with Madonna? Or was that the grammies?

Anyway, the people behind the Gorillaz are pretty well known.

quote from wiki:

Ah yes, that WAS the grammies. Did I say MTV? Sorry, my mistake. I saw the story on MTV. :smallsmile:

[Jorkens]

Isn't that obvious? Well, at last for me it is. I've just posted in another thread complaining about the excessive attention that image has in the music industry. And this is another example, although with an intelligent, ironic twist.
It's quite an interesting question, come to think of it. Are Gorillaz the ultimate in inauthenticity - beyond not writing your own songs, beyond miming this is a band who don't even exist - and as such do they constitute a blow against the cult of authenticity, or are they actually quite authentic and traditionalist, since you can view the whole project (including the animations) as being the works of some proper auteurs who we've heard of and read about and who are clearly and publically linked with the work?

Hmmmm...

[Om]

Good to see Albarn back to his best. Demon Days is an excellent album and I very much enjoy the direction of the band. Its somewhat experimental while remaining pretty mainstream. Interesting stuff.

Plus the cartoons as well. But really who notices those?

[FdL]

I guess when you get as famous as Damon Albarn it's an interesting trick to pull. It's worth doing in the name of music, I guess. I mean, they're not The Residents, but they have something going on.

Jorkens, what's authentic nowadays in the music industry, that's the real question to ask, and Gorillaz are making people ask it themselves. The irony is that maybe they become what they're mocking. It's a thin line.

[Amotis]

Jorkens, what's authentic nowadays in the music industry, that's the real question to ask, and Gorillaz are making people ask it themselves. The irony is that maybe they become what they're mocking. It's a thin line.

Same thing kinda happened with Godspeed You! Black Emperor. Not the authentic part, but the playing the music industry's game (of mass concerts, sales, interviews, band info, staying away from politics, etc). I'm not sure if they ever crossed the line as they disbanded...but the line certainly was shown to be thin.

[FdL]

I guess if selling records is a factor, it can end up weighing too much at some point. Ahhh, art vs. industry, the ages long debate. Does the latter taint it? Conversely, does it give it art a purpose?

Anyway, the problem is that today's music industry doesn't offer a lot of middle grounds. It's a kill or be killed thing.

[Amotis]

It's sad and true. I don't know the answer but I certainly see what the industry is doing and causing.

[FdL]

I had some hope that with Mp3's and the internet would cause a power shift back to music, but now that I see that they're tightening the leash, getting hold of things that were born "free" like mp3s and all and using them, I wonder if things are ever going to change.

[Amotis]

Indeed. Record stores are closing down everyday. Target and Walmart and other superstores are beginning to be the only ones selling. And you can guess what they don't sell...

Piracy is killing the artist who doesn't have a large company behind him. It's helping push the music industry toward more of an industry then a catalyst of music.

I hope something changes. I really do. It's kinda my generation and it's sad.

[FdL]

I don't think that piracy is the problem. Piracy is the symptom that the musical industry is very wrong. In fact, most musicians realize this.

They only want to sell what sells. And so, to people like me and you who don't immediately like whatever rubbish they try to push, find it difficult to get other music (the unheard music, to quote the song by X).

I see that the music industry fails as such when it eschews diversity for making the quickest (million) buck possible. I see it fails when I can't find the records I want to buy, original CDs, for which I'd pay money. There's a demand they're not fulfilling => "piracy". Which as a concept is kinda perverse, as it was coined by the musical industry because it "hurts" their schemes.

I see it as a natural evolution of the means of music promotion and distribution. What alternative do indie artists have to make themselves known, when corporations won't acknowledge the existance of any artist who is unable to sell X thousand records? When they even drop quality, well known REAL artists because they are not selling like Britney or whoever..?

And as the market is saturated with musical "products", to the point in which listeners often can't tell what is real music and what is an artificial product, I thnk the best possible promotion is to let music speak for itself. This is going to break eventually and there's going to be a solution, but as I said things look bleak.

In a dystopian future sequence I picture police raids against P2P users increasing and even acting against people who don't buy what music corporations push on them :D hahaha! How's that for a sci-fi plot? :p "Come on kid, listen to your MCR, make things easier for yourself. We know what's best for you". :D

As always I got a little carried away.

[Amotis]

Well, of course that's right and it's always had tints of being that way no matter the time period, worse and better in some places then others, I actually see the internet as a great way for the artist and the indie man to get out there. And you're right when you say it's only the outcome of something more sinister, but I want to look to my fellow listeners and watch them use it responsibly. I don't think the industry and it's sateration isn't gonna get any better. So the answer should be the poor man's store, the internet, right? But its being stolen and used recklessly. I want to trust my generation and I want this internet music thing to work. It may be the industries fault that it's how it is...but I want the individual to win the moral battle because I can't wait on the industry to change.

[FdL]

Yeah, there's hope in the internet but notice how it's being corrupted. Some years ago it wasn't like that, there was a feeling of community and diversity and freedom. Now every click leads to a page where they try to sell you stuff (mostly stuf you don't want). The internet is being raped :p

Just look at things like YouTube. Great concept. Great success. It gets noticed, it gets bought. Now it's really a shame what they are doing with it, totally distorting the original idea.

I still believe in people. I know the might of the "powers that be" but I still believe in individuals, and freedom of thought and choice. You have to be awake, though, to understand the world around you, and this view comes only with education, not just school and official education, but also with moral and ethical values given by your parents and family (and I'm not talking about shallow, hypocritical stuff coming from the usual suspects of populist control).

[NecroPaladin]

Bah. The art is done by one of the guys who made Tank Girl. That alone is reason enough to watch every single music video. :smallamused:

[Om]

Indeed. Record stores are closing down everyday. Target and Walmart and other superstores are beginning to be the only ones selling. And you can guess what they don't sell...

Piracy is killing the artist who doesn't have a large company behind him. It's helping push the music industry toward more of an industry then a catalyst of music.Let me get this straight. Large superstores are gobbling up smaller independent retailers... and its all the fault of piracy :smallconfused:

I suppose the fact that my local grocers has been replaced by a Tesco is the fault of those damned lettuce pirates? I don't see how you can possibly blame piracy for shifts in market trends that doom small stores.

[Amotis]

If they can't sell physically they go digitally. But that market is already cornered by piracy and stealing the music. I didn't make the connection from piracy closing the stores down, that's the industries fault (and I suppose if you stretch it piracy can be blamed, but only for a portion. Only so many small stores lost sales because people got their music elsewhere for free), I did, however, make the connection from stores closing down to piracy.

[Om]

Ah I got you the wrong way around. You are saying that the lack of small stores, selling selective music, feeds online piracy, right? I'd certainly agree with that.

The big deterrent to online piracy, IMO, is the general desire from most people to own a hard copy. People are willing to pay for the physical CD not so much the music.

But I wouldn't agree with your previous assertion, that online piracy/distribution harms new artists. Managed well it can be a huge advantage to emerging talent. Case in point - the Artic Monkeys

[dabone]

Gorillaz is just good music, nothing more nothing less. I understand if people dislike it, but hey I dislike heavy metal punk, everyone has his own taste.

[Amotis]

Yeah, but they're one band. One. Out of millions who have records, have made records, and want it out there. It's great that the Monkeys (hehe listening to them now) broke through and it's like the feel good indie story of the year. But that doesn't mean that it's a valid point of distribution and that it works for every band. Case in point, the millions of bands that are struggling with albums in their hands and that you have never heard of. And probably never will.

Artists need money. Producing ain't cheap. Shows ain't cheap (actually the worst form an artist can make money). Recording (and renting studios) ain't cheap. If people can get their music for free, they will. There's no real deterrent for piracy beside any moral reasons. It's free music. Free. I don't think anything really slows down this beast of a way of acquiring music. Hard copies? Takes a back seat to acutely getting free music.

So yeah, in the best case scenario, they get their music out, don't make money, but get massively noticed and make it big (aka monkeys). In the many other scenarios artists get their music out, it's downloaded, and they can't do anything. Just wait I suppose. Or they get their music out and it's not downloaded. They can't tour and get noticed more because getting out of their city would be too expensive. They can't up their producing and recording quality. There's no income and they're really kinda stuck.

[Jibar]

Let me get this straight. Large superstores are gobbling up smaller independent retailers... and its all the fault of piracy :smallconfused:


*Hides his hat and cutlass and sits in a corner whistling inconspicously.*

Amotis, I must confess something. I have always thought of you as the music "snob" of this board.
You think music, Amotis is the one you go to.
Amotis is the guy who knows what is good and what is bad.
So, Amotis, if you are referring to the Artctic Monkeys, and believe they're good, I may have to make sweet cat-muffin face-hugger love to ya.

[Om]

Yeah, but they're one band. One. Out of millions who have records, have made records, and want it out there.Hasn't that always been the case? How many bands actually make it out of the local gig scene? I doubt that the numbers today are signficantly lower than yesteryear. Indeed if anything the internet has weakened the grip of the major labels by shattering their business model and allowing bands a much broader audience.

Now obviously the Monkeys are the poster boys for this new model but it does show the possibilities that can result from using the internet to build a huge fan base outside the realm of record companies.


Case in point, the millions of bands that are struggling with albums in their hands and that you have never heard of. And probably never will.When was that ever different? The number of bands that "make it" has always been miniscule. I was going to tell the story of the other big band on the Dublin scene during the eighties, the other being U2, but to be honest I can't remember their name.

The difference is that today I might go on the internet and listen to some no-label band from Tennessee (the first place I could think of in the US). And that's impressive.


There's no real deterrent for piracy beside any moral reasons. It's free music. Free. I don't think anything really slows down this beast of a way of acquiring music. Hard copies? Takes a back seat to acutely getting free music.In which case I have to ask just why the closure of local stores will have any impact? Surely if people will always use the opportunity to obtain free music then they were doomed in any case?

From my experience, and this is something I've seen backed up in studies, online piracy has not harmed record sales. People, myself included, would far rather own a hard copy of a CD than a mere digital imprint. If I like a band then I'll buy the album.

In the past if I heard a local band that I liked I'd go to a few of the gigs and pick up an album on the door, if they had one of course. Now I'll still do that but I can also head over to youtube or some Bebo page to listen away if I've never heard them before. Perhaps its a cultural thing but the record store has never played a pivotal role in Ireland.



*Hides his hat and cutlass and sits in a corner whistling inconspicously.*
Its all your fault Jibar. You've single-handily killed the music industry!

[Amotis]

Hasn't that always been the case? How many bands actually make it out of the local gig scene? I doubt that the numbers today are signficantly lower than yesteryear. Indeed if anything the internet has weakened the grip of the major labels by shattering their business model and allowing bands a much broader audience.

Now obviously the Monkeys are the poster boys for this new model but it does show the possibilities that can result from using the internet to build a huge fan base outside the realm of record companies.


Yeah, but there's not only two groups, but three or four. There's the small group of those who make it, the larger group of those who don't make it big, and the even larger massive group of those who don't make it at all. There's always always been crappy garage club local bands. Always. But that's no reason to lump the fact that there have always been bands like that to the fact that there is an almost impossible hill to climb to be noticed. Just because there have always been bands that have never even gotten out of their local scene doesn't change the fact that there are lots of bands who have the talent and the skill and the art to get out of their local scene but can't because of the limitations.



When was that ever different? The number of bands that "make it" has always been miniscule. I was going to tell the story of the other big band on the Dublin scene during the eighties, the other being U2, but to be honest I can't remember their name.

The difference is that today I might go on the internet and listen to some no-label band from Tennessee (the first place I could think of in the US). And that's impressive.


Again, there is a huge ratio of bands to bands who "make it." But that doesn't (again) change the fact that those bands who could of made it in a different atmosphere are being hindered by the current one. Sure, you have ways of getting the music out there now, maybe to an audience never dreampt of, but that isn't where the sales are, that isn't where the masses are. There's a reason why the entire music industry hovers around records stores and now superstores. It's where the majority of music is sold. Why they bribe, poke, choke, and kill. With a monopoly control of that, well it just spells disaster. Take the average person. S/he doesn't know of a fraction of the bands who's sole market is the internet. It's just a limited environment that is only hindered by pirating. If piracy didn't exist then maybe the artist could thrive on the internet. But I watch bands fall everyday because the internet couldn't support them.




In which case I have to ask just why the closure of local stores will have any impact? Surely if people will always use the opportunity to obtain free music then they were doomed in any case?

From my experience, and this is something I've seen backed up in studies, online piracy has not harmed record sales. People, myself included, would far rather own a hard copy of a CD than a mere digital imprint. If I like a band then I'll buy the album.
Record sales, sure. But what records? Who's records? Not the people who don't have a way to sell records, that's for sure.



In the past if I heard a local band that I liked I'd go to a few of the gigs and pick up an album on the door, if they had one of course. Now I'll still do that but I can also head over to youtube or some Bebo page to listen away if I've never heard them before. Perhaps its a cultural thing but the record store has never played a pivotal role in Ireland.
I think it has. It's certainly a huge thing here. When tower records disappeared it serious was the end of music for some people. Record stores sell and attract and reach out and spread. If they disappear so goes that entire dogma. There are seriously three good record stores in a three city wide vicinity from where I'm standing. Good meaning a store dedicated only to music, carries indie and alt and small labels, and actually supports their artists. None of this payola crap.

It's pretty simple. The only physical sell of records is limited to superstores. They won't sell the little man, the indie band, or whatever. So those bands go to the internet. Where people pirate their music. They don't make any money and they give up. Or they don't make any money and they can't grow. Sure there's interest and spread that could never be achieved with physical records, that's great, but when a pivitol part of a band and music is taken away (the sell and sale of records) things go out of wack.

[Amotis]

Oh, and I've found a flaw in the theory that piracy doesn't affect record sales.



Songs that were heavily downloaded showed no measurable drop in sales, the researchers found after tracking sales of 680 albums over the course of 17 weeks in the second half of 2002. Matching that data with activity on the OpenNap file-sharing network, they concluded that file sharing actually increases CD sales for hot albums that sell more than 600,000 copies. For every 150 downloads of a song from those albums, sales increase by a copy, the researchers found.Both articles and studies I looked up had this basic message. The flaw being the "hot album" part. If they sell more then 600,000 copies already then the theory holds true. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about making it, not already made it. About the artist who need help selling, not need more selling.

Look up the Harvard UNC study too.

I also find it sad/ironic that the biggest yelling against piracy is the huge industry companies. They want a complete monopoly, don't they? It doesn't even affect them (only a bit I suppose) and they want the music sale to be limited to what they control. Man.

@ Jibar - umm, thanks! : ) Yeah, das arctic monkeys. Such stage presence too. I wanna see em live.

[Annarrkkii]

In my humble opinion, the Gorillaz being a cartoon band is great—beyond the fact that they have good music and original ideas. We've got plenty of real bands. And has anyone else here ever seen a live Gorillaz show? It's CRAZY awesome. Just... insane.

[FdL]

Ok, Amotis, but I think that the internet piracy thing still has a good side for really small bands. It gives the music an actual circulation that it wouldn't have otherwise. I guess it's always positive that the largest amount of people can listen to the music, contrasted with the alternative of selling a handful of records in your town.

It was a shame that Tower records fell down (no pun intended). Here in Argentina they did have a solid presence. I used to buy *lots* of CDs there, it was like an endless goldmine. In my town there used to be lots of small record stores that sold interesting music. It was fun to search the small stores and be surprised by the stuff they got, like a treasure hunt. Now it's all superstores, they're so sad, so cold.

[Beleriphon]

This is exactly why I love the used record store in town. Nice people, and well supported by a large body of hippy university students.

[Om]

Just because there have always been bands that have never even gotten out of their local scene doesn't change the fact that there are lots of bands who have the talent and the skill and the art to get out of their local scene but can't because of the limitations.But what I'm saying is that this has always been the case. The actual limitations may change but they are always there. The growth of the internet has changed the entire music industry – that means new challenges and new opportunities.


There's a reason why the entire music industry hovers around records stores and now superstores. It's where the majority of music is soldSo the medium has changed, I fail to see the devastating effects of that. Its something occurring throughout a whole series of industries – bricks and mortar stores are being replaced by online equivalents. In theory these stock broader selections at cheaper prices. The only difference with music is the lack of a hard copy.

The simple fact is that in future the majority of music will be sold online. That's not something that’s going to change and nor are the pirates going to go away. New bands can either adapt to the circumstances or fail. Its harsh but no different from any other era. The Artic Monkeys demonstrate what is possible if the system is capitalised upon.


Record sales, sure. But what records? Who's records? Not the people who don't have a way to sell records, that's for sure.Well now groups with no records have a fantastic new medium to exploit in order to drum up support and fans. If they don't have records then why are they worrying about piracy?


I think it has. It's certainly a huge thing here. When tower records disappeared it serious was the end of music for some peopleTower Records went broke for a reason – its business model was screwed. It could simply no longer compete with the larger stores by surviving on a niche market. Incidentally its survived in Dublin by becoming something of a cultural hub with regular live bands. Over here it’s the local live venue, rather than the store, that serves as the cornerstone of the local music scene.


Sure there's interest and spread that could never be achieved with physical records, that's great, but when a pivitol part of a band and music is taken away (the sell and sale of records) things go out of wack.Didn't you lament that music was increasingly becoming a business a few posts above?:smallwink:



Oh, and I've found a flaw in the theory that piracy doesn't affect record sales.There are plenty of studies on this subject that say one thing or the other. Personally I think its far more likely that the collapse in record sales came about due to inflexible and boneheaded management by the record companies rather than any number of online "pirates"

[Amotis]

But what I'm saying is that this has always been the case. The actual limitations may change but they are always there. The growth of the internet has changed the entire music industry – that means new challenges and new opportunities.[/font][/color]


So you're chalking up limitations, ones that don't need to be there, to part of the system? Now, not only do you have to have all the qualities that make a signable and a sellable band, but you have to tackle more? I agree, the interwob opens many new opportunities, but it certainly isn't our holy grail. Not only does it present a whole entire set of problems, almost unfixable problems, but add the fact that there's a monopoly in the physical distribution? It's not the win-all that you're making it to be. It's great, sure, but it's not balancing out the industry of music. It's not making things better and piracy is just gonna get worse.



So the medium has changed, I fail to see the devastating effects of that. Its something occurring throughout a whole series of industries – bricks and mortar stores are being replaced by online equivalents. In theory these stock broader selections at cheaper prices. The only difference with music is the lack of a hard copy.

The simple fact is that in future the majority of music will be sold online. That's not something that’s going to change and nor are the pirates going to go away. New bands can either adapt to the circumstances or fail. Its harsh but no different from any other era. The Artic Monkeys demonstrate what is possible if the system is capitalised upon.


It's quite different then any other era (and again, the monkeys are the exception. not really applicable besides the fact that if taken under the wing of a major review mag/site like NME then it spells breaking out). Allusions and comparisons to other eras are skewed and false. This never has happened before. That's like saying piracy doesn't effect the music community. Of course it does! It effects our everyday life. You would be wrong to say that piracy does nothing to music. I understand that you're saying that online will become the distribution point in the future. I'm not disputing that, nor am I lessening the potential of the interwob. I am saying that we cannot push forward accepting the way things are. We can't make the interwob to its full potential unless we do something. I don't know whether if we fight for our record stores again or we fight against piracy or we start trying to spread and help the mass of bands that need it, but we can't go to this "perfect interwob" were music has a valid point of distribution until things change.



Well now groups with no records have a fantastic new medium to exploit in order to drum up support and fans. If they don't have records then why are they worrying about piracy?

Tower Records went broke for a reason – its business model was screwed. It could simply no longer compete with the larger stores by surviving on a niche market. Incidentally its survived in Dublin by becoming something of a cultural hub with regular live bands. Over here it’s the local live venue, rather than the store, that serves as the cornerstone of the local music scene.


Not-yet-fantastic. Not-perfect-medium. Why? Because it's probably one of the biggest roadblocked to making and being a band and making music ever.

Business model was screwed? Look anywhere and their decline is pointed to price competition from big-box merchants, the growth of Internet sales, and piracy. And I see you stressing it's importance...then why are you not acknowledging it over here? I know there's probably a culture difference, I've heard it already, but the record store is a pivatol part of the music community and buisness.




Didn't you lament that music was increasingly becoming a business a few posts above?:smallwink:


The industrization, sure. But the sale of records is an intigral part of bands and music. I was complainging about the approach of companies and artists to it. Not the fact that artists make money. I'm not one of those people who thinks only a good artist is a poor artists. No, bands need money to improve. So my point still stands. The sale of records is hindered, greatly. Thus something is wrong. It doesn't matter if you dislike the industry of music or whatever. The fact remains, the rest is opinion. Bands need money, bands need to sell records.




There are plenty of studies on this subject that say one thing or the other. Personally I think its far more likely that the collapse in record sales came about due to inflexible and boneheaded management by the record companies rather than any number of online "pirates"

...so um...you counter my counter of your flawed theory and other studies with "there are other studies?" That's not very valid...

Like I said before, you would be crazy to say that piracy doesn't effect music. It's huge and it's impact is massive. To say that it doesn't effect our community...well that's just blind or showing some hidden motives. Of course it does, it's piracy.

In conclusion (hehe), interwob = potenticial. But not, repeat, not in the state it is in. Not with the state of how physical distribution is. Not with piracy. Not with the major record companies becoming bigger then ever. It's great and it's our future. But it's limitations now prevent it from being something like a bitter pill. It may help us later on, but we can't move on with the way it is right now.