Roleplaying an undead-raising Cleric?

[Extra Anchovies]

For my next character, I'm planning a Cleric 6/Bone Knight 10/Contemplative 2/Divine Oracle 2, with a focus on 1) Persist-enabled melee combat, and 2) raising bunches of undead minions. A few questions about fluffing him:

1. What deity should I choose? I plan to be either TN or LN, with the primary justification for creating undead being that the departed souls have no further use for their body (he'll be against resurrection magic unless the dead person in question has some vital task that needs completion, i.e. if they're a fellow PC). Are there any non-evil deities that are okay with the creation and command of undead? I'm leaning towards Wee Jas, but am not sure.

2. Any other general roleplaying tips for an undead-raising, non-evil cleric? I've been thinking about making him super-pragmatic (hence his "they aren't using their body, so I might as well" mentality), and having him tire quickly of things that don't bring about immediate progress (e.g. negotiation that involves lots of fiddly legalese). Do any of you have other suggestions?

[atemu1234]

I once made a bat**** insane character. He was TN, just because he wasn't actively harmful inasmuch as just plain crazy. He thought he was resurrecting people, but in reality was just turning them into undead creations. It reached tearjerker levels when he revealed his awakened-undead butler was his older brother when he was alive (unfortunately, the Awakened Undead doesn't have his brother's personality) and his parents were his first undead creations after they died of poisoning.

[Pan151]

Most neutral gods not associated with death, in any setting, do not particulary care about undead either way - so, just choose any one that you like.

Of those directly associated with death, Jergal from the Forgotten Realms (LN, former god of death, current god of fatalism, burial and tombs) is explicitely ok with the creation of undead, provided that they promote death rather than try to cheat it (fits perfectly with what you seem to want to do). Wee Jas from Greyhawk on the other hand is fine with undead, so long as they are not animated against their will (which means she is probably not ok with reanimating random zombies).


You can play a non-evil necromancer just as you'd play a non-evil anything - there is no real difference. They are a tool in the same way that a sword or a fireball are tools to get the job done.

[Jeff the Green]

You can play a non-evil necromancer just as you'd play a non-evil anything - there is no real difference. They are a tool in the same way that a sword or a fireball are tools to get the job done.

Depends on the setting. I prefer to play it that undead are kind of like chemical weapons: Yes, technically there are some conceivable situations where using them wouldn't be evil and even a few where it'd be good. Anybody stockpiling them, though, probably isn't doing so in furtherance of world peace. In default D&D they're like nuclear weapons: so inimical to life that their creation and use can at best be a neutral act.

Anyway, you haven't actually given any information to help us assign an alignment. "Well, he wasn't using it anymore" could be said by a necromancer of any alignment.

[defiantdan]

Cleric 6 is full of dead levels. Consider cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Prestige paladin 1/bone knight 10....

Edit: sorry noticed it does not meet BAB.

[Jeff the Green]

Cleric 6 is full of dead levels. Consider cleric 3/sacred exorcist 2/Prestige paladin 1/bone knight 10....

While Cleric 6 is full of dead levels, you can't enter Sacred Exorcist until 8th at the earliest. Cleric 5/Prestige Paladin 1 works if you're willing to eat the feat tax, though.

[Ettina]

Do you use a creature's soul to make them into a zombie? I thought you did.

Oh, nvm. Soul Bind (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Soul_Bind) doesn't stop you from using Animate Dead on their corpse, so I guess you don't use their soul.

[Red Fel]

1. What deity should I choose? I plan to be either TN or LN, with the primary justification for creating undead being that the departed souls have no further use for their body (he'll be against resurrection magic unless the dead person in question has some vital task that needs completion, i.e. if they're a fellow PC). Are there any non-evil deities that are okay with the creation and command of undead? I'm leaning towards Wee Jas, but am not sure.

Wee Jas is a great choice. She's non-Evil; in fact, she's LN. Her schtick is respect for the knowledge and experience of those who have come before, so crafting undead isn't exactly verboten. She's also very pragmatic, so a pragmatically-minded necromancer would fit in fine. Note also that using Wee Jas gives you the option of RKV, if you decide to take it.


2. Any other general roleplaying tips for an undead-raising, non-evil cleric? I've been thinking about making him super-pragmatic (hence his "they aren't using their body, so I might as well" mentality), and having him tire quickly of things that don't bring about immediate progress (e.g. negotiation that involves lots of fiddly legalese). Do any of you have other suggestions?

Frankly, that kind of impatience is more a C attribute than an L attribute. Almost by definition, a tendency towards necromancy requires a certain degree of patience. Pragmatism is okay, but I'd advise you to consider a proper ethos. Utilitarianism is an ethos, mind you, and one that can be shockingly and deliciously amoral. (A very strict utilitarian, for example, would be okay with a doctor killing and dissecting his assistant in order to use the parts to save multiple terminal patients, for example. Despite having a "for the greater good" tone to it, utilitarianism can be very LN.) You can very easily craft a character whose mentality is that everything should be done for its maximum utility - hence the use of undead. This also justifies a number of arguably horrific acts if they accomplish a greater goal, and since you're adventuring with the PCs, there's a reasonably chance that goal will be a "good" one. (And since most PCs are murderhobos anyway, they probably won't mind your disturbing lack of morality.)

[Extra Anchovies]

Wee Jas is a great choice. She's non-Evil; in fact, she's LN. Her schtick is respect for the knowledge and experience of those who have come before, so crafting undead isn't exactly verboten. She's also very pragmatic, so a pragmatically-minded necromancer would fit in fine. Note also that using Wee Jas gives you the option of RKV, if you decide to take it.

Thanks for the input! I'm pretty sure that yeah, I will be going with Wee Jas for the patron deity. I want the full 10 levels of Bone Knight for the massive pile of immunities (critical hit/precision damage at 10th, yum yum), and the levels of Divine Oracle and Contemplative are to provide other immunities/defenses (armored evasion from DO, and slippery mind from Contemplative). That means RKV won't fit in the build as-is, but not that you've directed my attention to the class it certainly has my interest. I'll keep it in mind next time I want a fighty/clericy type.


Frankly, that kind of impatience is more a C attribute than an L attribute. Almost by definition, a tendency towards necromancy requires a certain degree of patience. Pragmatism is okay, but I'd advise you to consider a proper ethos. Utilitarianism is an ethos, mind you, and one that can be shockingly and deliciously amoral. (A very strict utilitarian, for example, would be okay with a doctor killing and dissecting his assistant in order to use the parts to save multiple terminal patients, for example. Despite having a "for the greater good" tone to it, utilitarianism can be very LN.) You can very easily craft a character whose mentality is that everything should be done for its maximum utility - hence the use of undead. This also justifies a number of arguably horrific acts if they accomplish a greater goal, and since you're adventuring with the PCs, there's a reasonably chance that goal will be a "good" one. (And since most PCs are murderhobos anyway, they probably won't mind your disturbing lack of morality.)

Oooh, that's a much better take on it than what I had come up with! I'll be incorporating a grimly utilitarian outlook into the character concept for sure, it definitely fits with the fluff that I'd been working on. My goal is for a character of questionable moment-to-moment morality who somehow manages to make the ends great enough to justify the means every time.

Also, since I like the Bone Knight PrC so much (and I especially like this illustration of it (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/5n_gallery/90017.jpg)), it's now my avatar! Woo!

[Grayson01]

Have you thought about just having a Cleric of Death or the Cocnept of death as a universal force? Depending on what domains you want this might very well be a decent road to take for you concept. You can easly have a philosphy of a life, death, and undead cycle. You could prostulate your fellow PC's on how death is not evil it's a natural state of existance. And the mindless-undead are just animated husks, while the smart forms of Undead are just varying degrees of passing on to true death or they are a varying form of death in of it's self.

[Spore]

I would possibly differentiate between targets for raising. I guess a town is not fine with raising their fallen guards. But if you raise the troll that attacked the city or the villain who tried to do [plot relevant thing] then you may get away with mixed feelings towards it. Remember that being a Cleric doesn't exempt you from standard laws.

So you should probably heavily consult with your DM to gain his backing. Tell him that you want to play a necromancer and ask him how this could be done the most fitting way as a cleric.