Martial Master: Worth It?

[Beowulf DW]

The ACG included two archetypes for the Fighter, the Martial Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/martial-master) and the Mutation Warrior (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/mutation-warrior). Perhaps not coincidentally, these archetypes can combine with each other. The Mutation Warrior drops Armor Training and Mastery for the Alchemist's mutagen and a limited list of discoveries. In my opinion, totally worth it.

The Martial Master has me scratching my head, though. It gains Martial Flexibility at 5th level in exchange for Weapon Training and Weapon Mastery. Considering that a Fighter is giving up a good chunk of his offensive capacity, and Martial Flexibility doesn't let you skip prereqs, that kind of stings (Why couldn't they have dropped Bravery instead? Whyyyyyy?:smallfrown:). Still, the idea is interesting enough to draw me to it like a moth to fire. A virtuoso warrior that can pull just the right trick out of his sleeve at just the right time is a concept I can really sink my teeth into.

The question is, is it worth it? Fighter certainly has the feats to cover quite a few prereqs, but would that result in a capable combatant, or merely a patchwork of mediocre feats?

[Anlashok]

Trading a small amount of what the fighter's already really good at (DPR) for a significant boost to something the fighter is baseline terrible at (adapting). It seems like a winning combination to me.

Especially when you tack lore warden or mutation warrior onto the back end.


Dealing damage has always been the easy part.

[Jigawatts]

Agreed with Anlashok. Damage has never been the Fighters issue, they are badasses when it come to dishing out the pain, its everything else they suck at. Even losing Weapon Training shouldn't be a big hindrance to keeping on par with the death dealing, especially if it provides you with the versatility and flexibility you are looking for.

[StreamOfTheSky]

You get discoveries at 7, 11, 15, and 19. Greater Mutagen is level 12, Grand is level 16. Ouch...

[avr]

I'm not sure it's worth it. After all the weapon training bonus also applies to combat maneuvers, which are the most likely things you'd be using the martial flexibility for anyway.

SotS: so the Mutation Warrior spends feats on Extra Discovery at levels 13 and 17. Not a terrible problem.

[Zaq]

You get discoveries at 7, 11, 15, and 19. Greater Mutagen is level 12, Grand is level 16. Ouch...

Sounds like the Crusader or Warblade and their stance progression.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'm not sure it's worth it. After all the weapon training bonus also applies to combat maneuvers, which are the most likely things you'd be using the martial flexibility for anyway.

SotS: so the Mutation Warrior spends feats on Extra Discovery at levels 13 and 17. Not a terrible problem.

Except they don't get "the Discovery class feature" -- it has a different name. So they don't qualify for the feat. Identical problem to Hexcrafter Magus and Hex Strike feat.

I still think it's totally worth losing armor training for (although I'm not sure it's worth taking over lore warden), just saying...that's really annoying.

[Beowulf DW]

I'm not sure it's worth it. After all the weapon training bonus also applies to combat maneuvers, which are the most likely things you'd be using the martial flexibility for anyway.


True, but I think that an argument could be made for the ability to swap out competency with combat maneuvers rather than being stuck with Improved Trip or Improve Disarm when you're up against a drake.


Except they don't get "the Discovery class feature" -- it has a different name. So they don't qualify for the feat. Identical problem to Hexcrafter Magus and Hex Strike feat.

I still think it's totally worth losing armor training for (although I'm not sure it's worth taking over lore warden), just saying...that's really annoying.

That's something that's definitely worth talking over with your DM. As long as you stick to the list they give you, I don't really see any issue with it.