Build Concept: PsyRogue/Incarnum/That Theurge Thing

[Phelix-Mu]

Alright, I came up with a concept for a new character while I was sleeping last night. Basically, just a PsyRogue with some incarnum stuff, possibly even going into that psionic/incarnum hybrid class. Could I also get a link to that theurge, by the way?

Now, I am unfamiliar with incarnum (especially lately), but PsyRogue is pretty basic. I read through part of Psyren's excellent handbook, and will peruse others this weekend, but I am looking for tips, soulmelds, feat combos, and other stuff. Particularly, is the psionic/incarnum theurge class worth it at all in this sort of build? I was thinking incarnate, but totemist has it's appeal, of course. I know early entry may be hard to achieve with these subsystems, but essentia handles dips fairly well from what I hear, so I'd like to know what any of you more knowledgeable playgrounders might think.

Basically, I am looking for a stealthy skillmonkey who can get away with deceit and live by his wits, not just sheer mechanical op-fu. Some fu of some sort is desirable, but I'm not looking to solo challenges with this guy.

[Fax Celestis]

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a

Soul Manifester is more psion than psyrog, unfortunately (1/2 BAB, 2+INT skills, d4 HD), but you can make it work. You get 10/10 advancement on both sides, open up new chakra binds (crown, feet, hands at 3rd; arms, brow, shoulders at 8), and get the delicious Psionic Investment feature. Also, Psionic Distillation should be more affordable on a psyrog base.

[Phelix-Mu]

Many thanks for the link. I will have to decide if the theurge is worth it, since the PsyRogue list is rather limited already. But then there is Expanded Knowledge, and just one or two powers with that can really open up new battlefield and non-combat functionality.

On the other hand, I could always just dip the incarnum, or focus mostly on incarnum and use ardent and ML shenanigans. Hmm. I'm trying to avoid the higher optimization tricks, but my limited knowledge of incarnum is making it hard for me to gauge power levels of different combos and synergies.

How about feat selection? I'm mostly interested for the theurge entry/progression, and then for a mostly PsyRogue with a dip of incarnum feats and/or less than five class levels.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, the absolute bare minimum entry point for Soul Manifester vis PsyRog/Incarnate is PsyRog 5/Incarnate 2, which means you've got three feats before you get in (unless you're human/strongheart halfling/azurin or take flaws). That said, you should probably go azurin and take Psychic Rogue as your first level and Azure Talent as your first feat, then take Incarnate as your second and third levels. Then you can do whatever else you want. Traditional feat choices for rogues work well, but you might also want to look into taking Shape Soulmeld for a couple of soulborn or totemist only soulmelds. I'm a fan of Thunderstep Greaves, but they're more for martial characters than sneaky ones.

Shedu Crown gives you telepathy 100' when it's bound which opens you up to Mindsight.

Worg Pelt gives you 2+2e competence to Hide/Move Silently, but Kruthik Claws give you 4+2e competence to Hide/Move Silently. Worg Pelt's bind is better though (5'+5e' bonus to landspeed vs Weapon Finesse with natural weapons).

Disenchanter Mask gives you constant detect magic at 10'+10e'. Binding it makes it determine quicker: you don't have to concentrate three rounds.

Displacer Mantle is less worthwhile at low levels: it gives 4+2e competence to Move Silently (but not Hide), but at higher levels it gets better. When bound to shoulders, you have constant blur.

Gloves of the Poisoned Soul might be interesting for a sneaky type: they can poison your attacks with a poison that deals 1+e Wis damage as primary and secondary damage. If you bind it to your hands, you deal Str damage too. Couple that with prevenom weapon and strength of my enemy for ludicrous debuffs. Unfortunately you get neither of those powers naturally, but you could pick them up with feats, get some power stones, or spend some cash to have someone psychic reformation them onto you. Buying the use of the power would be 26530gp to put prevenom weapon on your list and 51530gp for strength of my enemy. Expensive, but probably better than spending feats.

You'll probably want to pick up Practiced Manifester, though it's not entirely necessary here as you're only losing 2 ML. You could also take Martial Study (some Shadow Hand maneuver)/Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance) to buff up your lower Sneak Attack.

[Fouredged Sword]

The incarnum rogue mixing class is REALLY good for sneaky characters. Take a look. If you wanted to go Psi-rogue and soul manifester, you would be better off going rogue 1 / psion x / Incarnate 1 / Soul manifester X with able learner on a high int human. Psionic rogue manifesting isn't worth advancing if you are not getting the class features anyway.

[Phelix-Mu]

The incarnum rogue mixing class is REALLY good for sneaky characters. Take a look. If you wanted to go Psi-rogue and soul manifester, you would be better off going rogue 1 / psion x / Incarnate 1 / Soul manifester X with able learner on a high int human. Psionic rogue manifesting isn't worth advancing if you are not getting the class features anyway.

While I am aware that psion manifesting is inherently superior, I was mainly looking for something a little less powerful than that to work off of, hoping to end up around Tier 3 if possible (after the build is complete, clearly it will be below that at various levels). Not sure PsyRogue has enough to support that, but I'm still looking into options.

Any other ideas or ppl with experience with incarnum or psionics on a sneaky-type build?

[Phelix-Mu]

Thanks for all the tips, and special props to Psyren for an awesome Psychic Rogue handbook, and sinfire titan for a very helpful Incarnate Handbook over at brilliantgameologists.

[Phelix-Mu]

Now possibly using some homebrew on a psywar/incarnate chassis (thanks to Jeff the Green). Any way that I can shoehorn stealth skills onto this?