Unusual Combinations of Race + Class

[Tragak]

We've all seen Half-Orc Barbarians, we've all seen Halfling Rogues, we've all seen Elf Wizards…

We've all seen Bard / Randombull / SublimeChord / AbjurantChampions, we've all seen Paladin / Monk / Sorcerer / AbjurantChampion / Swiftblades...

This exercise will take a different direction. I and everybody who wishes to participate will be creating characters that are at least minimally useable, but that A) only have 1 class and that B) we don't imagine have come up in a lot of High-OP discussions. Power will be extremely important in these discussions, but simplicity and novelty will be even more important.

Beyond that, go crazy! Even if you only have feedback on somebody else's ideas (whether you just like their combo or not, what tips you can think of for building around it, …) feel free to share with the rest of us.

I'll start this off with some combinations that I myself have tried with my friends before (and some that I haven't yet :smallwink: )
Races: 3 Catfolk, 2 Imps, 2 Quasits, 1 Hobgoblin
Classes: 4 Rogues, 2 Monks, 2 Barbarians

In no particular order:

1 and 2)
Catfolk: +4 DEX, +2 CHA, +1 LA, 40 speed
Barbarian: Primarily STR/CON, secondarily DEX, +10 speed
or
Rogue: Primarily DEX/CON, secondarily STR/(either INT or CHA)

Wicked speed let's you go from one opponent to the next before they have a chance to hurt your friends, and a high DEX bonus means that you have better points/rolls available for STR and CON (especially if you can also afford to dump CHA)

3)
Catfolk
Monk: primarily WIS/STR/CON, secondarily DEX, bonuses to AC and movement, extra attacks, and a lot of DMs bend the rules to allow synergy with Improved Natural Attack

Even faster than the Catfolk Barbarian and almost as damaging (higher quantity attacks vs. barbarian's higher quality)

4)
Hobgoblin: +2 DEX, +2 CON, 1 LA, bonus to Moving Silently
Rogue

I've had a lot of people tell me that Lawful characters are obligated to fight their enemies head-on and are not allowed to be sneaky, so my spitey-sense always gets tingly when I play a race that's Usually-LE but which synergies very well with Rogue levels :smalltongue:

5)
Quasit: -2 STR, +6 DEX, +2 WIS, +3 natural armor, fast healing 2, 3 Racial HD, invisibility, alternate form, poison, 50 ft Perfect Flight Speed
Barbarian

Quasits have Poison attacks - making them that rare breed of creature where CON is an offensive stat - so pumping CON and flying into a Rage would make your opponent's required Fortitude DC high enough to be more than worth the 2 STR price of admission, and your Invisibility + 60ft Flight speed + high DEX for Moving Silently would make it easy to get in a Full Attack (with two chances of inflicting Poison) before your target can call for help.

And if you not only rolled/bought low physical scores but are also fighting something that's immune to Poison, then you can still transform into a Wolf with 13+Rage STR, 15 DEX, 15+Rage CON, +10 speed, and several levels worth of HP.

6)
Imp: +6 DEX, +2 WIS, +4 CHA, +5 natural armor, fast healing 2, 3 Racial HD, invisibility, alternate form, poison, 50 ft Perfect Flight speed
Monk

Less optimized for offense than the other Monk mentioned (whose Unarmed Strikes are 2 sizes larger), let alone its chaotic-opposite the Quasit Barbarian (has to choose between Flurry of Blows OR Poison, whereas the Quasit's Rage makes the Poison even stronger), but is better than both of them at avoiding damage.

And really, any class is optimized if the character has more levels than everybody else :smallwink: If an Imp gets the XP for so many Monk levels that it can beat a Barbazu to a pulp, then imagine what will happen to "Barbie's" reputation when word gets out he was thrashed by an Imp.

7 and 8
Imp
or Quasit
Rogue

Flight + Invisibility + Sneak Attack. That is all :smallcool:

___

Hobgoblin Monks and Barbarians could've also worked, in fact they could conceivably be made more powerful than some of the combos I listed in greater detail. But I didn't think they were as cool :smallcool:

___

What about you guys? Do you have anything like this that you have loved using and/or would love to try using?

[Jeff the Green]

I'm fond of goliath Swordsage. You go Strength-focused, THW, Setting Sun style. Even more amusing if you decide to go into Shadow Sun Ninja. In a similar vein, gnome Crusaders can be good (particularly if you layer on dragonborn).

Changeling is brought up as a race for wizards primarily for Recaster, but with Racial Emulation you can use it to combine Elven Generalist 1 and 3 with Changeling Wizard 5 for a floating doubled familiar bonus. And since this is a Wizard 20 in this exercise, we're not even giving up Sponaneous Divination. You can also pick up some decent racial feats this way, like Dragonwrought or Trivial Knowledge.

[nedz]

A is a bit restrictive, why only one class ?

I did build a Janni / Horizon Walker who was an excellent skill monkey / taxi, combat options were a bit lacking though.
Janni can get straight into Horizon Walker with the Educated feat.
I built him as a tripper, their Enlarge Person SLA helped.

I wouldn't really recommend this for a PC since the RHD and LA is a bit high — it would work well in Gestalt though.

[Sir Chuckles]

I've played:
Advanced Awakened Skeleton Bard
Minotaur Sorcerer/Swiftblade
Neanderthal Wizard
Feral Jungle Dwarf Wildshaper Ranger/Warshaper
Halfling Barbarian
Dwarf Bard/Battledancer

It's what I do.

[Tragak]

I'm fond of goliath Swordsage. You go Strength-focused, THW, Setting Sun style. Even more amusing if you decide to go into Shadow Sun Ninja. I like it. Powerful armor when you're prepared + a wisdom bonus to AC when you're caught off guard to make up for the DEX penalty. I'll have to try that sometime :smallwink:


In a similar vein, gnome Crusaders can be good (particularly if you layer on dragon born). People don't seem to take Gnomes seriously. This one would be :smallbiggrin:


Changeling is brought up as a race for wizards primarily for Recaster, but with Racial Emulation you can use it to combine Elven Generalist 1 and 3 with Changeling Wizard 5 for a floating doubled familiar bonus. And since this is a Wizard 20 in this exercise, we're not even giving up Sponaneous Divination. You can also pick up some decent racial feats this way, like Dragonwrought or Trivial Knowledge. Sounds scary.


A is a bit restrictive, why only one class ? More as a gimmick than anything else :smalltongue:

There are already a bunch of threads where people can pour through a bunch of sourcebooks for hidden synergies between a bunch of disparate class abilities, and I've had as much fun on those threads as the next guy. I just thought that simplicity could be an interesting theme to experiment with for this one.


I did build a Janni / Horizon Walker who was an excellent skill monkey / taxi, combat options were a bit lacking though. I've actually never been tempted by a race with an ECL higher than about 5 before. This one sounds tempting :smallwink:

[Tragak]

Halfling Barbarian That'll never catch on (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html) :smalltongue:

[sideswipe]

pixie barbarian. in the same party as the half orc rogue.

[Greenish]

I made a goblin warblade once. Small size and Strength penalty are no excuses for not becoming a great swordsman.

Also, a dwarf rogue (there was also Deepwarden and Dread Commando and something in the build). The starting point was that Darkvision's really handy for sneak attackers. Might've traded Evasion for something else and used heavy (or heavier, anyway) armour, since dwarves can tumble in it.

[Sir Chuckles]

That'll never catch on (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html) :smalltongue:

You can make it work fairly well.
The Halfling Barbarian racial sub level from Dragon is fairly nice. From there, Strongheart Halfling let's you pull of the usual ubercharging. That character was split between ubercharging and Intimidate, which worked because of Halfling Barbarian removing the Small penalty to Intimidate. I also took the Obese Flaw and Willing Deformity (Obese).

[Xaktsaroth]

Maug Battledancer.

Long, long story.

[eggynack]

Is half-orc druid still an unusual combination? If so, that one. Half-orc druids are awesome, after all, especially of the dragonborn desert half-orc variety.

[nedz]

I did build a Janni / Horizon Walker who was an excellent skill monkey / taxi, combat options were a bit lacking though.
Janni can get straight into Horizon Walker with the Educated feat.
I built him as a tripper, their Enlarge Person SLA helped.

I wouldn't really recommend this for a PC since the RHD and LA is a bit high — it would work well in Gestalt though.I've actually never been tempted by a race with an ECL higher than about 5 before. This one sounds tempting :smallwink:

I used it as an NPC, at the optimal level for the build, it did it's job quite well.
It was a bit of a gimmick in that I entered a PrC without using a base class.

The 6 Outsider RHD aren't too bad, but the +5 LA is too much. This is probably due to having Plane Shift and Telepathy 100' (We all know what you can do with that); though it's stat boosts are not excessive, and well spread, and it's other SLAs are quite average.

[Stella]

This exercise will take a different direction. I and everybody who wishes to participate will be creating characters that are at least minimally useable, but that A) only have 1 class and that B) we don't imagine have come up in a lot of High-OP discussions. Power will be extremely important in these discussions, but simplicity and novelty will be even more important.
This is not mine, but a player in a low-op campaign I was in played a Half-Orc Wizard. This fulfills both A and B. I'm not sure why power is extremely important in these discussions, but as you can all see the player took a 2 point swing in his INT (he rolled an 18 and so had a 16 INT vs. the 18 he could have had for a race without a negative INT modifier. Only Core PHB races were allowed so there was no 4 point swing for "Yea Olde Standard Grey Elfe" race selection) for choosing this race/class combo, which naturally impacted his spells per day, all saving throw DCs, and skill points per level.

He also parked his second highest stat into STR, which took something like a 16 to an 18 STR, and while he didn't seek it out he was not hesitant at all to melee. In fact at low levels (say 1-3) with his STR modifier To Hit and To Damage he was a fairly effective melee combatant when he landed a hit even with a staff. A quarterstaff is after all a double weapon, and wielded with both hands as a two-handed weapon he was doing just as much bonus damage as the Fighter and Barbarian (un-raged, but even raged it didn't make a huge amount of difference all the same) and he only trailed their BAB by a couple of points. The campaign didn't go beyond 5th level, but he remained viable throughout and of course had the campaign continued he would have been kicking in the quadratic differentiation against the linear martial classes.

Which only goes to show that a T1 class can make what most might consider to be the worst possible design decisions and still revel in the power differential between their class and the poor T4/5 classes.

[Jigawatts]

Dwarf Mage.

[Sian]

wouldn't exactly call Dwarven wizards unusual ... playing against type sure, due to the stereotypical view of dwarves, but highly viable (specially if you except to end up in mage duals).

[Jigawatts]

wouldn't exactly call Dwarven wizards unusual ... playing against type sure, due to the stereotypical view of dwarves, but highly viable (specially if you except to end up in mage duals).

I started with AD&D. :smallwink:

[nedz]

I started with AD&D. :smallwink:

My first character was a Dwarf Wizard, back in OD&D — and no, I didn't know what I was doing.

I have seen all manner of Dwarf characters in 3.5: Bards, Sorcerers even — but this is hardly a fair comment since I did run an entirely Dwarf campaign at one point.

[ShurikVch]

I did run an entirely Dwarf campaign at one point. And all of them were Clerics?
http://agc.deskslave.org/comics/AGC247.GIF
http://agc.deskslave.org/comics/AGC248.GIF

[nedz]

And all of them were Clerics?
http://agc.deskslave.org/comics/AGC247.GIF
http://agc.deskslave.org/comics/AGC248.GIF

Actually I asked everyone to create a character which was: A) A Dwarf, B) Suitable to be assigned to a Scouting unit (It was a Military/Fantasy campaign). I did get two Dwarven Clerics, in heavy armour :smallsigh:

[Greenish]

Actually I asked everyone to create a character which was: A) A Dwarf, B) Suitable to be assigned to a Scouting unit (It was a Military/Fantasy campaign). I did get two Dwarven Clerics, in heavy armour :smallsigh:Well, they're dwarves, they'd feel naked without full plate. (Plus I seem to recall there's a good duration cleric spell that removes ACP.)

[nedz]

Well, they're dwarves, they'd feel naked without full plate. (Plus I seem to recall there's a good duration cleric spell that removes ACP.)

The rest of the party were scout type characters. Iron Silence (Cleric 2) is the spell you are thinking of, but this only stops them clanking.

[ben-zayb]

I had an idea once that never saw play.


Build: DarkToM Whisper GnomeRoS StreetfighterCS web FerocityCS web Lion TotemUA Barbarian 19
Dark Template gives HiPS (in darkness) as well as stealth bonus. Whisper Gnome gives DEX and CON bonuses, size bonuses including stealth, and 30ft. movement retention despite the size. Streetfighter gives more potential battelfield control and dakka. Ferocity gives more STR for attack/damage and DEX for hiding and AC. Lion Totem gives charge.

Ability Score: Str>Dex>Con>Int=Wis=Cha

Feats: Power Attack (1), Improved Bull Rush (3), Leap Attack* (5), Shock Trooper (6), Evasive Reflexes (9), Martial Study [Cloak of Deception for] (for Hide as class skill)(12), Robilar's Gambit (15), any (18)
*ACF: Lose Improved Uncanny Dodge for a bonus feat

Items: Valorous 2H reach weapon, Armor Spikes, Sparring Dummy of the Master (for 10ft steps)


Concept: The character is based on the concept of dark alleyway thug/mugger, mechanically functioning as a charger + hit-and-run hybrid with the unique Cleaving Charge only available to level-19 barbarians. It charges from the darkness, drop an unsuspecting victim and possibly someone near him, possibly dragging the latter to his next target. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Flexibility: You can easily position one or more undropped mooks near the BBEG with your Shock Trooper battlefield control, if that wasn't already the case. Better yet, your battlefield positioning gets better using Evasive Reflexes + Robilar's Gambit, by either 10ft steps from incoming attackers (10-ft reach) and/or 10ft steps after getting AoOd (e.g. when charging charging).

Stealth and Avoidance: You can Hide as part of movement, which applies to potentially numerous charges (albeit at a -20 penalty) and inexhaustible but conditional 10-ft steps! With your dismal AC due to Shock Trooper, this provides a different type of defense against attacks (assuming the DM doesn't let you kill everyone in 1-round anyway). Now, you can deal massive damage without exposing yourself. Being hidden also means flatfooted foes.

Extra: Using Robilar's to counterattack may be feasible upon taking Combat Reflexes, synergizing with your high dexterity. However, you'll have to tank those hits with less CON than normal (it's still a D12 at the end of the day).

[Chronos]

Not quite what you're asking for here, but a while back we had a thread to figure out what the least common combination was. It turns out that, out of the PHB races and classes, the least common is the high elf barbarian. I think it's because it plays against type, but not so much as to be funny like a half-orc wizard or gnome barbarian, and also because if you really want to be an elf barbarian, you're going to be a wood elf, not a high elf.

[Sian]

Sparring Dummy of the Master (for 10ft steps)


cute, but ...


A&EG p137

Sparring Dummy of the Master: This battered wooden dummy is designed for monks to practice their striking and blocking techniques. It consists of a plain round wooden post that stands 6 feet high and 1 foot thick. Six smaller posts stick out horizontally from the post, roughly representing a defending enemy's limbs.
To gain the benefit of its magic, a person with at least one level in monk must train with the dummy 8 hours a day for four weeks. If the training is ever interrupted for more than a 24 hours, she must begin again. If this training is interrupted twice, the monk can never gain the benefit of the sparring dummy.
Once she has completed the required training, the monk is allowed to make a 10-foot adjustment whenever she can normally make a 5 foot adjustment.
Caster Level: 5th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, haste; Market Price: 30,000 gp; Weight: 40 lb.

Empasis mine, its a monk only item

[Zaq]

It's not powerful, but it's kinda funny: a while ago, my friends and I were trying to think of the class that would raise the most eyebrows to have as a dwarf. We came up with the dwarven Ninja. I don't know why, but I just have the hardest time picturing that.

[ShurikVch]

Anthro giant Octopus Rogue. Just try picture to yourself how will look complain to Guard: "He poked his tentacles into my purse..."! :smalleek: (+6 Dex and +2 Str is good, but -4 Cha may cause some problems. Maybe, swordsage will do better?..)


It's not powerful, but it's kinda funny: a while ago, my friends and I were trying to think of the class that would raise the most eyebrows to have as a dwarf. We came up with the dwarven Ninja. I don't know why, but I just have the hardest time picturing that. You just do it a bit wrong. Do not try to stick in standard "europid" dwarves. Instead, use "eastern" ones:
http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/283/f/6/asian_dwarf_with_pet___regular_by_mr_werewolf_art-d6pyn3m.jpg
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2013/283/0/b/asian_dwarf_with_pet___advanced_by_mr_werewolf_art-d6pync6.jpg

[Xaktsaroth]

OOO! I forgot about Cpt. Jack.

He was an antro rabbit sky pirate. His animal companion picked was a Small Hawk so he could ride it as a mount.

He also had a construct monkey partner, for reasons I can no longer remember.

[The Ravensong]

For a while, I had a Badger Hengeyokai Barbarian named Haniba Jyaa who's favorite food was cobra.
One of my players had a Tanuki Hengeyokai Bard with perform: Kazoo.
Very soon, I'll have a Wookie Sith Marauder and a Jawa Sith Sorcerer as villains for a Pathfinder based Starwars campaign (Because I have a seething hatred for the starwars d20 rules)

[Deadkitten]

It's not powerful, but it's kinda funny: a while ago, my friends and I were trying to think of the class that would raise the most eyebrows to have as a dwarf. We came up with the dwarven Ninja. I don't know why, but I just have the hardest time picturing that.

There is actually an issue of Dragon that has Dwarven ninjas.

[ben-zayb]

cute, but ...



Empasis mine, its a monk only item
Yep. 224 DC21 UMD checks. Doable at around level 8 if you're not willing to invest more than 1 rank on xclass skill.

[Uncle Pine]

I'll probably build a clawlock villain for an upcoming adventure and I may or may not give him an aptitude composite longbow to exploit Beast Strike since centaurs get proficiency with it. I hope it'll work well.

[ericgrau]

The thing is, dwarves make excellent wizards, elves make excellent rogues and small races actually do pretty well in melee due to size bonuses. Even those with mental penalties can use spells without saves, especially melee or ranged touch spells that use physical scores. I think you could pair almost anything up with almost anything. Except caster + most LA/RHD... and IMO you should house rule to fix that.

[deuxhero]

There is actually an issue of Dragon that has Dwarven ninjas.

Dwarf is actually a very good choice for rogue/ninja thanks to dark vision and 99% of dungeons being made mostly of stone or metal.

[Tragak]

Dwarf is actually a very good choice for rogue/ninja thanks to dark vision and 99% of dungeons being made mostly of stone or metal. Not to mention that they can Tumble in heavier armor than most others can :smallwink:

[animewatcha]

or you can get boosts to your ( or maybe barrels ) speed and copy the scene from Hobbit that had the fat dwarf ( i think it was that one ) that re-invented the concept of barrel rolling. Followed by buffs for TWF penalties for fighting in a barrel.

[Stella]

The thing is, dwarves make excellent wizards [...]
All races make excellent Wizards, as my post on the Half-Orc Wizard illustrated. Wizards are Tier 1 and can make terribly non-optimal choices and still revel in their Tier mastery. Dwarves don't even take the -2 INT penalty that a Half-Orc does, and Dwarves have a lot of racial abilities which are good for Wizards.

[Tragak]

All races make excellent Wizards, as my post on the Half-Orc Wizard illustrated. Wizards are Tier 1 and can make terribly non-optimal choices and still revel in their Tier mastery. There is always that. :smallcool:

… Ooooh, you just gave me another idea for a specific race/class combinations theme: Tier 4-5 class with a single strength but a ton of weaknesses + racial features that offset those weaknesses. Thank you very much Stella, I think I'll be having some fun with that one :smallbiggrin:

[dextercorvia]

I'm a fan of Trumpet Archon Monks.

[Psyren]

I think Dwarf Sorcerer and Dwarf Warlock are odder than Dwarf Wizard.

Elf Barbarian is another I don't see often. Or Half-Giant Rogue.

Basically any race where the penalty is in the thing they rely on.

[Novawurmson]

Hrm. I haven't really played many stupendously bizarre race/class combinations, now that I think of it. Something to look forward to, I guess. I did play a hobgoblin cleric once, but it made complete sense within the campaign setting.

[nedz]

I did create a Half-Fey Dwarven Warlock once — the other Dwarves did keep giving him funny looks though :smallbiggrin:

[Segev]

I kind-of want to see a (bald, male) dwarf white-haired witch. His (luxurious) beard is his animated hair.

[incarnate236]

Warforged Transmuter

Immune to most things that would kill a caster who fails a fort save and with the right feats the base spell failure goes away.

I also had fun with a Warforged Rogue only becuase it was like 6'6'' and 300 pounds with an ungodly hide and move silently check.

[malonkey1]

I had a Kobold Swordsage. He was not a Sneak Attacker. I didn't use any cheese, but he was still decently effective.

[nyjastul69]

Yep. 224 DC21 UMD checks. Doable at around level 8 if you're not willing to invest more than 1 rank on xclass skill.

Can you emulate a class with UMD? I thought it was only class features that could be emulated.

[Sir Chuckles]

I kind-of want to see a (bald, male) dwarf white-haired witch. His (luxurious) beard is his animated hair.

I once wrote up a bald Fireblood Dwarf Bard/Battle Dancer/Unarmed Swordsage.
Never got to play it. It's waiting for it's chance, though.

[PraxisVetli]

Tried a Shadowwalker Feral Poison Dusk Lizardfolk with swordsage, Telflammar, and Black Blood Cultist levels. Took Giantbane at 6 and became Raptorman!!
Optimal in the way that I took an idea first, then made it to the best I could. Which really is how I think it should always be done..