Dweomerkeeper worth it?

[ramrod]

Hi guys.

An old campaign is about to kick off again and I think I'll be allowed a retrain/do over on my original character. It was a fun one but I've been there and done it so thought a twisting be interesting.

Outside of the silly wish SU ability is dweomerkeeper worth it? We would be level 9/10 and I doubt cheesy ways of getting into it would work, so it would require a one level dip into sorc or wiz (wiz making sense for the bonus creation feat to enter dweomerkeeper)

My question is, is the value of being a dweomerkeeper worth the loss of a cleric caster level? Can you give justification and example if the answer is yes? Most threads I've seen linked to this people just say yes it's awesome with no explanation outside of oooo wish/miracle

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The feat Magical Training in Player's Guide to Faerun allows you to cast a few 0-level arcane spells every day, and it can easily meet the arcane spellcasting prerequisite for you without multiclassing. Considering Dweomerkeeper is also a FR class, this should be fair game.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, for most people, the big benefit is bypassing costs - Supernatural Spell removes all components, including GP and XP costs. People touting the benefits focus on the highest end spells that use them - Miracle, Wish, and Gate - but there's plenty of others to which it applies - Revivify (Spell Compendium), Animate Dead, Undeath to Death, et cetera. Additionally, it's useful when you MUST get past SR - Supernatural Spell gets rid of the SR:Yes line, and makes it undispellable to boot. If you plan on using a lot of metamagic, the capstone metamagic reduction is also worthwhile.

Dweomer of Spells is useful for spells you plan to cast a lot, or need RIGHT NOW when you need them. Divine Insight, Delay Death, Close Wounds, and Revivify (all from the Spell Compendium) come to mind.

Is it worth the loss of a half a level of spell access when you can't get in with things like Magical Training from Player's Guide to Faerûn or Southern Magician from Races of Faerûn? Maybe. Depends on the optimization level of your table, and how well you use them.

[Silva Stormrage]

Even a lose of cleric level isn't an insurmountable loss. A 1 level dip in wizard can get you abrupt jaunt which if you have a halfway decent int score (12-14) gives you 4-5 immediate action teleports each day.

I would say it is worth it even with the level loss. If you party is high op enough where the single level loss completely trashes your build it is also probably high op enough to allow you to take magical training or another way of getting arcane spell casting without burning a level.

[Bronk]

Well, I don't know what your character is like, but I don't think you absolutely need to lose a cleric level to take the dweomerkeeper class.

You could take it at sixth level by getting 'anyspell' (and greater anyspell) with either the spell domain or the 'initiate of Mystra' feat. 'Anyspell' allows you to prepare and cast an arcane spell as a wizard, so that takes care of that requirement.

The second option works fluff-wise too, since the dweomerkeeper serves Mystra already.

[ramrod]

So really, if I can find a reasonable way into Dweomerkeeper (I think I'll be able to take flaws anyway to get extra feats), surely it is straight up better than cleric minus turning ability?

[Zanos]

Dweomerkeeper is better than Cleric because cleric doesn't have any class features other than spellcasting after level 1.

Honestly Dweomerkeeper is good enough that I would dip Cleric 1(not that it's bad) to go into it as an arcane caster.

I couldn't figure out a way to use it with permanency due to the 2 round casting time, but it's still great. Bypassing SR and having no components is good even if you aren't abusing it, since it's effectively stilled+silent. I recommend spells like Teleport, Dispels, and Celerity for your mantle if you go wizard, as those spells are the kind of thing that the number you need on a given day could vary between 0 and all of your slots of that level.

[ramrod]

So one lost feat and lost turning levels are the only downside then? Or am I missing something?

[sleepyphoenixx]

So one lost feat and lost turning levels are the only downside then? Or am I missing something?

Pretty much. You need to take an item creation feat if you don't get Scribe Scroll from being a wizard. I like Inscribe Rune just because you can crank out a ton of them during downtime (10 minute creation time), and if you can squeeze in 8 levels of Runecaster it becomes even better. You only really need Dweomerkeeper 4 after all.

You need to take the Magic domain, which is decent as far as domains go even if it isn't everyones top choice. If you have to dip for arcane casting instead of getting it via feat look into a non-wizard caster to avoid making the domain power useless. Wu Jen gets you a few nifty spells from items and a metamagic feat so it's pretty even compared to a wizard dip.

The metamagic feat you'd probably have taken anyway, so it doesn't really count as a prerequisite imo.

[Chronos]

Dweomerkeeper isn't a Faerun-specific class (at least, not any more). It's from the web enhancement to Complete Divine, and isn't associated with any setting.

[Fax Celestis]

And since you're taking the Magic domain anyway, you might as well pick up the Customize Domain feat and put what you want in there.

[Rubik]

A psion, ardent, or wilder can learn all the powers and spells of a StP erudite using Psychic Chirurgery. If said psion, ardent, or wilder takes the Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) feat, he gains all the benefits of Supernatural Spell on everything he manifests.

[Silva Stormrage]

A psion, ardent, or wilder can learn all the powers and spells of a StP erudite using Psychic Chirurgery. If said psion, ardent, or wilder takes the Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) feat, he gains all the benefits of Supernatural Spell on everything he manifests.

Sure but that is so high op and unlikely to fly in 99% of all games that don't involve Tippy :smalltongue:

[Rubik]

Sure but that is so high op and unlikely to fly in 99% of all games that don't involve Tippy :smalltongue:You could always take three levels of illithid savant and eat a StP erudite (or the Ice Assassin thereof) and learn the powers yourself...