9th level spells on a StP Erudite: New, potentially less-cheesy method?

[tuesdayscoming]

So I've been working on an Erudite build for a while now. I have been less than thrilled with the (extremely limited) methods by which an erudite can pick up 9th level spells. In particular, I've always been bothered by the use of the Favored Discipline ACF, declaring (Spells) to be your favored discipline. To my knowledge, nothing in RAW supports the idea of all spells falling under a single discipline - a fact which has always irked me when people suggest this method

I've come up with a new method that avoids the mess of taking Favored Discipline (Spells).

The ingredients

A Magic-Mantled, Spell to Power Erudite
Earth Spell (and its prerequisites)
Eldritch Corruption

How it works

Granting an interpretation of the Magic Mantle which grants "super transparency," we should be able to apply Eldritch Corruption to a power known. This will heighten the power by two levels (say, from 7th to 9th). From there, Earth Spell should bump it up one higher (making that same 7th level power count as 10th).

Thus, we can manifest 10th level powers, and should therefore be able to learn 9th level spells (and, for that matter, discipline powers).

The question

Granting that the Magic Mantle grants super transparency, and that Earth Spell allows you to cast higher level spells than your class table states, is there anything preventing this trick from working as intended?

As always, Playground, thanks for your input!

[Gemini476]

Alright, lessee. Favored Discipline(Spells) can be mostly ignored, since it doesn't stack with Spell to Power Erudite. (Both trade away the first-level bonus feat!) Unless you rule that they don't trade away the feat from the Bonus Feat class feature but rather any bonus feat and thus trade away Psicrystal Affinity, but that's likely to make Complete Psionics move at ballistic velocities relative to your head. (Also the equivalent to a discipline would be a school anyway, so so it'd more be Favored Discipline(Conjuration) or whatever.) But whatever, we're going for maximum cheeseocity with this anyway.

Second off: Earth Spell won't work, even with the rather spurious assumption of Super Transparency. It gives the spell level a +2 boost when you cast it in a spell slot one higher than it's actual level (so a +1 boost relative to Heighten) - however, at no point are you actually casting it from a slot.

You're better off just using Eldritch Corruption on an 8th-level power, from what I can tell. It should work, if the Magic Mantle allows "spell" to translate into "power".


Which I'm not too sure about - read the text for the Magic Mantle:

In addition, you always treat magic and psionics as identical.
Therefore, powers such as dispel psionics work for both magic
and psionics. Most campaigns already treat them in this
manner, so this mantle is most useful in campaigns where
they are considered different systems.
Emphasis mine.

Since not having magic-psionics transparency is the variant, it seems excessively clear that the meaning of this is "if you are in a campaign without magic-psionics transparency, you personally have magic-psionics transparency."

Not to mention that "treat magic and psionics as identical" has no real definition for how to translate stuff. Disciplines are schools, right, spells are powers, and if a Magic Mantle Ardent takes that Forgotten Realms feat that gives you a spellbook he can scribe spells into it and manifest them since they count as powers he knows.


As cheesy and rules-bendingly abusive as taking Favored Discipline(spells) and StP are, Mantled Erudite(Magic Mantle)+StP+Super Transparency+Eldritch Corruption is just as much so. The former assumes that you can take both ACFs and that "spells" is a valid choice for discipline; the latter assumes that you can take both ACFs and that Magic Mantle gives a form of transparency so powerful that it very much is not something that 'most campaigns already treat in that manner'.

It's a nice trick, yes, but it's not really all that much cheesier than other methods I've seen. (The best one is, of course, to have your Epic future-self Teleport Through Time and Psychic Chirurgery a guy who then Psychic Chirurgeries you. Completely rules-legal and also technically achievable before level 20.)

[Rubik]

Does the erudite gain Psicrystal Affinity as a bonus feat at first level? Yes? Well then.

[Psyren]

I consider "super-transparent magic mantle" and "favored discipline (spells)" to be equally TO. If your DM is okay with either, go nuts.

[tuesdayscoming]

Oh, this is certainly cheese. No doubt about that. The point of this trick, though, is that it gets around the use of Favored Discipline (Spells), which I've always found to be so problematic. After all, nowhere in the rules is it suggested that Spells would qualify as a single, cohesive discipline.

I grant that it's cheesy. I'm just trying to develop a method to grant 9ths involving slightly LESS cheese (emphasis on slightly).


You're better off just using Eldritch Corruption on an 8th-level power, from what I can tell. It should work, if the Magic Mantle allows "spell" to translate into "power".

The point of Earth Spell is to get around Heighten's inherent level 9 cap. Eldritch Corruption alone does not skirt this restriction.

[Necroticplague]

For a similar, but simpler, idea, couldn't you just apply Sanctum Spell to a level 9 power, making it a level 10 power while in the sanctum, thus making you able to manifest level 10 powers?