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ThisIsZen
2014-09-13, 03:43 AM
I've had this idea rolling around in my head for a while, but I actually figured that for a number of reasons, the Summoner class would be really easy to strip apart and graft back together as a necromancer. This is just what I've hashed out so far, in about an hour and a half tonight, and is obviously really rough, but I ran into some issues. Will explain after the spoiler.


Necromancer

Summoner Archetype

Changes:

Class Skills: Necromancers do not gain Fly (Dex) as a class skill, instead gaining Heal (Wis).

Necrotic Companion: At first level, a Necromancer may choose between a Fleshcrafted Companion or an Ectoplasmic Companion.

If a Necromancer chooses an Ectoplasmic Companion, follow the Eidolon rules as written in the Summoner class with the following changes. While an Ectoplasmic Companion has the same types and subtypes as a normal companion, treat it as undead for all spells and effects which deliberately target undead. This means that an Ectoplasmic Companion is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy, among other things. Ectoplasmic Companions are always translucent and seem to lack substance, and often take forms similar to ghosts, shadows or other incorporeal undead, though they themselves are not incorporeal.

Ectoplasmic Companions gain access to the following new Evolutions:

3-Point Evolution:
Ghost Touch (Su): An Ectoplasmic Companion becomes able to affect incorporeal and ethereal entities as easily as it can affect solid ones. Treat all of the Companion's attacks as having the Ghost Touch magic weapon quality. If the Companion has the ability to use manufactured weapons, this bonus does not extend to such weapons it only benefits the Companion's natural attacks and other innate physical abilities.

4-Point Evolution:
Incorporeal (Su): An Ectoplasmic Companion's body becomes wholly translucent and it loses all physical substance. The Companion gains the Incorporeal subtype, with all of the benefits and limitations therein. A Companion must be at least 4th level to take the Incorporeal evolution.

If a Necromancer chooses a Fleshcrafted Companion, follow the Eidolon rules as written in the Summoner class with the following changes.

Fleshcrafted Companions do not gain any of the types or subtypes associated with normal Eidolons, and instead gain the Undead type. A Fleshcrafted Companion is not summoned, nor may it be dismissed it is crafted upon first gaining a level in the Necromancer Summoner Archetype. It may not be affected by dismissal, banishment or similar effects, but disjunction and dispel magic will affect the Companion.

If subjected to a dispel magic effect, the Necromancer may make a caster level check opposing the check of the dispel magic's caster, adding their Wisdom modifier to the roll. If the Necromancer succeeds, the Companion is unaffected. If the caster of the dispel magic is successful, the animating force behind the Companion is dispelled and it becomes inert. An inert Fleshcrafted Companion is essentially an object with hardness 0 and hp equal to its hp total prior to becoming inert. In the case of mage's disjunction, a similar opposed roll is permitted, but if the disjunction is successful, the Companion is instead instantly destroyed.

The Fleshcrafted Companion takes a form shaped by the Necromancers intentions and realized by their skill with needle and thread. Aside from the type changes above, and any other specific changes noted below, the Companion progresses as an Eidolon of the same level in all ways.

Fleshcrafted Companion

HD: Unlike normal Undead creatures, the Fleshcrafted Companion gains d10 HD, as an Eidolon of the same level would.
BAB: Unlike normal Undead creatures, the Fleshcrafted Companion's BAB is equal to its HD.
Good/Bad Saves: Unlike normal Undead creatures, the Fleshcrafted Companion has two Good saves however, the Necromancer may only select one of these two Good saves. The other is Will, as the Undead type.
Skills: The Fleshcrafted Companion's class skills are identical to the Undead type's class skills, with one exception. As the architect of the creature, the Necromancer may opt to trade out one of the Fleshcrafted Companion's class skills for another skill whenever she spends or alters Evolution Points. She may only do this once for every time she spends or alters EP. In addition, a Fleshcrafted Companion's EP expenditures may be changed whenever its Necromancer has access to their laboratory, though this takes two hours to accomplish.

Evolution Pool: A Fleshcrafted Companion gains Evolution Points as an Eidolon does. However, there exists the possibility to increase this pool beyond its base value see the Fleshcrafter Discipline entry for more information.

Fleshcrafter Discipline: A Necromancer who has chosen the Fleshcrafted Companion (hereafter referred to as a Fleshcrafter Necromancer) also gains the ability to create a laboratory at first level, and may begin play with one if she has access to appropriate resources. Similarly, a Fleshcrafter Necromancer begins play with a Fleshcrafter's Toolkit, a small container that fits in a backpack which contains all of the tools of her trade (thread and needles, saws, and so forth). So long as she has access either to her Toolkit or to her Laboratory, she gains the following benefits. (A Fleshcrafter's Toolkit is essentially a Healer's Kit that conveys no mechanical benefit to the Heal skill. Therefore, a Healer's Kit may be substituted for the Toolkit, but doing so will use up a single use of the Healer's Kit.)

A Fleshcrafter Necromancer may increase the number of evolution points available to her Companion, in addition to any feats or other abilities she might gain for the same purpose. In order to do so, she must have some source of raw materials whether that be connections, going out graverobbing herself or some other method, it must exist. (The default assumption is the purchase of medical cadavers every Fleshcrafter Necromancer has a source of materials as long as they maintain a laboratory, the requirement is simply for fluff enrichment.) Normally, she may add EP to her Companion at the following rate: 100*(Class Level) gp. Therefore, a first-level Fleshcrafter Necromancer would need to spend 100 gp in order to add an extra EP to her Companion. A Companion may only have bonus EP from this source equal to its base EP, taking into account feats and other permanent bonuses. This normally takes an hour per EP added, but if the Fleshcrafter Necromancer only has access to her Toolkit and not to her Laboratory, it takes two hours per EP added.

However, if an immediate source of raw materials is at hand namely, a corpse, either fresh or kept from adventuring then the cost to add an EP to her Companion is halved. Each corpse can only reduce the cost of a single EP. A Fleshcrafter Necromancer can store up to her CL/5 corpses in her laboratory for this purpose, minimum 1.

If a Fleshcrafted Companion is destroyed for any reason, all bonus EP gained in this fashion are lost and must be re-purchased anew. A destroyed Fleshcrafted Companion can be reconstructed itself free of cost, in a new form, but this requires access to the Necromancer's laboratory, and the Companion will only have its base EP available to it. Doing so takes as long as altering the Companion's spent BP.

Fleshcrafter Discipline replaces Life Link for Fleshcrafter Necromancers.

Summon Undead I-IX (Sp): Like Summoners, Necromancers gain the ability to summon creatures other than their Companions. Unlike Summoners, these are not drawn from the Summon Monster list, but rather a discrete list of undead creatures available to the Necromancer. A Necromancer may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Wisdom modifier, but is cast as a standard action like the Summoner's Summon Monster class feature. Normally, the same restrictions also apply a Necromancer with their Companion active or summoned (depending on their Companion type) may not use this ability. However, a Necromancer does gain the ability to spontaneously cast these Summon Undead spells. At the cost of both one daily use of this ability and a spell per day of an equivalent or higher spell slot, a Necromancer may cast this spell as a full-round action.

Undead created by this ability are summoned creatures and susceptible to all the same effects. They last for 1 minute/level, and crumble away to dust at the conclusion of their summoning effect.

A Necromancer cannot treat Summon Monster I-IX as being on her spell list for the purposes of spell trigger or spell completion items, nor may she expend uses to fulfill the construction requirements of magic items she creates.


The issue of course is that while Ectoplasmic Necromancers essentially progress as normal Summoners (but with some slightly altered features and an intended rework of their spell list), Fleshcrafter Necromancers might be more appropriately termed a new class based on the Summoner chassis. So, I suppose the question at hand is this:

Should I split this into the Necromancer archetype and a new class based on the Summoner for the Fleshcrafter line? And does this look reasonable? I realize the Fleshcrafter gets access to substantially more power than the base Summoner, but I tried to mitigate that a bit both with the gold cost associated with that power and the possibility of loss, as well as the cap on bonus EP. Still though, I think it might be too powerful - perhaps a lower bonus cap or a higher cost per bonus EP?

Naoki00_
2014-09-14, 12:55 PM
I've had this idea rolling around in my head for a while, but I actually figured that for a number of reasons, the Summoner class would be really easy to strip apart and graft back together as a necromancer. This is just what I've hashed out so far, in about an hour and a half tonight, and is obviously really rough, but I ran into some issues. Will explain after the spoiler.


Necromancer

Summoner Archetype

Changes:

Class Skills: Necromancers do not gain Fly (Dex) as a class skill, instead gaining Heal (Wis).

Necrotic Companion: At first level, a Necromancer may choose between a Fleshcrafted Companion or an Ectoplasmic Companion.

If a Necromancer chooses an Ectoplasmic Companion, follow the Eidolon rules as written in the Summoner class with the following changes. While an Ectoplasmic Companion has the same types and subtypes as a normal companion, treat it as undead for all spells and effects which deliberately target undead. This means that an Ectoplasmic Companion is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy, among other things. Ectoplasmic Companions are always translucent and seem to lack substance, and often take forms similar to ghosts, shadows or other incorporeal undead, though they themselves are not incorporeal.

Ectoplasmic Companions gain access to the following new Evolutions:

3-Point Evolution:
Ghost Touch (Su): An Ectoplasmic Companion becomes able to affect incorporeal and ethereal entities as easily as it can affect solid ones. Treat all of the Companion's attacks as having the Ghost Touch magic weapon quality. If the Companion has the ability to use manufactured weapons, this bonus does not extend to such weapons it only benefits the Companion's natural attacks and other innate physical abilities.

4-Point Evolution:
Incorporeal (Su): An Ectoplasmic Companion's body becomes wholly translucent and it loses all physical substance. The Companion gains the Incorporeal subtype, with all of the benefits and limitations therein. A Companion must be at least 4th level to take the Incorporeal evolution.

If a Necromancer chooses a Fleshcrafted Companion, follow the Eidolon rules as written in the Summoner class with the following changes.

Fleshcrafted Companions do not gain any of the types or subtypes associated with normal Eidolons, and instead gain the Undead type. A Fleshcrafted Companion is not summoned, nor may it be dismissed it is crafted upon first gaining a level in the Necromancer Summoner Archetype. It may not be affected by dismissal, banishment or similar effects, but disjunction and dispel magic will affect the Companion.

If subjected to a dispel magic effect, the Necromancer may make a caster level check opposing the check of the dispel magic's caster, adding their Wisdom modifier to the roll. If the Necromancer succeeds, the Companion is unaffected. If the caster of the dispel magic is successful, the animating force behind the Companion is dispelled and it becomes inert. An inert Fleshcrafted Companion is essentially an object with hardness 0 and hp equal to its hp total prior to becoming inert. In the case of mage's disjunction, a similar opposed roll is permitted, but if the disjunction is successful, the Companion is instead instantly destroyed.

The Fleshcrafted Companion takes a form shaped by the Necromancers intentions and realized by their skill with needle and thread. Aside from the type changes above, and any other specific changes noted below, the Companion progresses as an Eidolon of the same level in all ways.

Fleshcrafted Companion

HD: Unlike normal Undead creatures, the Fleshcrafted Companion gains d10 HD, as an Eidolon of the same level would.
BAB: Unlike normal Undead creatures, the Fleshcrafted Companion's BAB is equal to its HD.
Good/Bad Saves: Unlike normal Undead creatures, the Fleshcrafted Companion has two Good saves however, the Necromancer may only select one of these two Good saves. The other is Will, as the Undead type.
Skills: The Fleshcrafted Companion's class skills are identical to the Undead type's class skills, with one exception. As the architect of the creature, the Necromancer may opt to trade out one of the Fleshcrafted Companion's class skills for another skill whenever she spends or alters Evolution Points. She may only do this once for every time she spends or alters EP. In addition, a Fleshcrafted Companion's EP expenditures may be changed whenever its Necromancer has access to their laboratory, though this takes two hours to accomplish.

Evolution Pool: A Fleshcrafted Companion gains Evolution Points as an Eidolon does. However, there exists the possibility to increase this pool beyond its base value see the Fleshcrafter Discipline entry for more information.

Fleshcrafter Discipline: A Necromancer who has chosen the Fleshcrafted Companion (hereafter referred to as a Fleshcrafter Necromancer) also gains the ability to create a laboratory at first level, and may begin play with one if she has access to appropriate resources. Similarly, a Fleshcrafter Necromancer begins play with a Fleshcrafter's Toolkit, a small container that fits in a backpack which contains all of the tools of her trade (thread and needles, saws, and so forth). So long as she has access either to her Toolkit or to her Laboratory, she gains the following benefits. (A Fleshcrafter's Toolkit is essentially a Healer's Kit that conveys no mechanical benefit to the Heal skill. Therefore, a Healer's Kit may be substituted for the Toolkit, but doing so will use up a single use of the Healer's Kit.)

A Fleshcrafter Necromancer may increase the number of evolution points available to her Companion, in addition to any feats or other abilities she might gain for the same purpose. In order to do so, she must have some source of raw materials whether that be connections, going out graverobbing herself or some other method, it must exist. (The default assumption is the purchase of medical cadavers every Fleshcrafter Necromancer has a source of materials as long as they maintain a laboratory, the requirement is simply for fluff enrichment.) Normally, she may add EP to her Companion at the following rate: 100*(Class Level) gp. Therefore, a first-level Fleshcrafter Necromancer would need to spend 100 gp in order to add an extra EP to her Companion. A Companion may only have bonus EP from this source equal to its base EP, taking into account feats and other permanent bonuses. This normally takes an hour per EP added, but if the Fleshcrafter Necromancer only has access to her Toolkit and not to her Laboratory, it takes two hours per EP added.

However, if an immediate source of raw materials is at hand namely, a corpse, either fresh or kept from adventuring then the cost to add an EP to her Companion is halved. Each corpse can only reduce the cost of a single EP. A Fleshcrafter Necromancer can store up to her CL/5 corpses in her laboratory for this purpose, minimum 1.

If a Fleshcrafted Companion is destroyed for any reason, all bonus EP gained in this fashion are lost and must be re-purchased anew. A destroyed Fleshcrafted Companion can be reconstructed itself free of cost, in a new form, but this requires access to the Necromancer's laboratory, and the Companion will only have its base EP available to it. Doing so takes as long as altering the Companion's spent BP.

Fleshcrafter Discipline replaces Life Link for Fleshcrafter Necromancers.

Summon Undead I-IX (Sp): Like Summoners, Necromancers gain the ability to summon creatures other than their Companions. Unlike Summoners, these are not drawn from the Summon Monster list, but rather a discrete list of undead creatures available to the Necromancer. A Necromancer may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Wisdom modifier, but is cast as a standard action like the Summoner's Summon Monster class feature. Normally, the same restrictions also apply a Necromancer with their Companion active or summoned (depending on their Companion type) may not use this ability. However, a Necromancer does gain the ability to spontaneously cast these Summon Undead spells. At the cost of both one daily use of this ability and a spell per day of an equivalent or higher spell slot, a Necromancer may cast this spell as a full-round action.

Undead created by this ability are summoned creatures and susceptible to all the same effects. They last for 1 minute/level, and crumble away to dust at the conclusion of their summoning effect.

A Necromancer cannot treat Summon Monster I-IX as being on her spell list for the purposes of spell trigger or spell completion items, nor may she expend uses to fulfill the construction requirements of magic items she creates.


The issue of course is that while Ectoplasmic Necromancers essentially progress as normal Summoners (but with some slightly altered features and an intended rework of their spell list), Fleshcrafter Necromancers might be more appropriately termed a new class based on the Summoner chassis. So, I suppose the question at hand is this:

Should I split this into the Necromancer archetype and a new class based on the Summoner for the Fleshcrafter line? And does this look reasonable? I realize the Fleshcrafter gets access to substantially more power than the base Summoner, but I tried to mitigate that a bit both with the gold cost associated with that power and the possibility of loss, as well as the cap on bonus EP. Still though, I think it might be too powerful - perhaps a lower bonus cap or a higher cost per bonus EP?

I really like this idea!, and the first suggestion that jumps out at me is that Ectoplasmic alone with maybe one or more little flavor tweaks would be a nice archetype, but the Fleshcrafted seems more like something for a prestige class. Maybe flavored as having an ectoplasmic Eidolon possessing a fleshcrafted body to gain other things?

Thealtruistorc
2014-09-15, 07:51 PM
Neat-o, but in all honesty the summon undead ability seems kinda underwhelming at present. I suggest replacing it with the blighter ability that applies the skeleton or zombie template to whatever you summon, and add some other undead (allips, wights, etc.) to the summon list. At that point you will really have something good.