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View Full Version : DM Help Any tips for a new DM whose whole group are power gamers?



thedaads
2014-09-13, 08:56 PM
Hey guys, this is the first post from me (though I have been lurking around the forums for a while now).

With that out of the way,

Do you have any tips in terms of story and roleplaying for a group of new gamers who come primarily from a video games back-ground (power gamers supreme)?

I have tried to DM a 4th edition campaign for them, which turned into a slogfest of encounters with everyone trying to tell everyone else what the most 'optimal' move they could make on their turn. The story and stays within cities and towns turned into 'I rest to regain powers and look for something to fight'. I can't say that I was having fun towards the end of that, and some of my players started just playing LoL in the background during some sessions (we did this via skype and roll20). It ended when I threw in the towel after 6 months when one of the players messaged me to say he couldn't play, and was found on our Teamspeak server playing Terraria.

I really want to try again, but don't particularly know how to keep them interested.
What edition do you guys recommend and should I start with a premade adventure this time?

Any advise at all would be good.

A few things to note about me and my group:
We are all good friends IRL
We don't live in the same city anymore (higher education can be a b*tch), otherwise I would totally run this at my place.
They are all enthusiastic about playing D&D, just get very game-y and tend to (unintentionally or otherwise) meta-game alot.

Kid Jake
2014-09-13, 09:09 PM
Make the plot proactive, keep it pressing in on them so that they stay on their toes IC. Give them the occasional extravagant reward just for playing their characters or interacting with the world (oh, that weird guy that you befriended? Artificer! He built you your very own golem as a way of saying thanks for caring.) and ALWAYS escalate things each session, especially just before you call it a night to make them anxious to see what's next.

Wrenn
2014-09-13, 09:18 PM
As far them telling each other what to do during combat, one thing I have started doing is allowing the NPCs to react to this. Realize that when they strategize to each other like this their characters are saying essentially the same things to each other. When the wizard player tells the fighter player 'Move to this square so I can cast fireball', his character in game is saying something to the effect of 'Move to your left, I'm going to throw a fireball', or whatever. If the monsters they're facing are intelligent enough then they will, and should, react to this.

A pre-made adventure may help some. Maybe ease them into the mindset by giving them obvious non-combat solutions to conflicts, and be sure to reward them for it the same as if they engaged in combat.

Condition, condition, condition. In my experience it can take time, but they'll come around.

thedaads
2014-09-14, 02:58 AM
Hmm, sounds good.
I never thought about the combat thing, getting the enemy to react to the players talking strategy (I did ask if they were saying all of their 'strategy' in character, but they did it so often that I gave up).

I could try the Pavlovian conditioning and seeing if they figure out that I'm doing it (tehe)


Escalation always sounds good >:)

Also, which edition would you guys recommend? I am not a fan of 4th because it's essentially a turn based tactics game.

Yora
2014-09-14, 05:05 AM
Don't try to outpower them. If they want to breeze through every encounter, then let them win every fight without much risk of failure.

Or do adventures in which combat strength doesn't really help them achieve their goal, but that might bore them.

Wrenn
2014-09-14, 07:38 AM
I'm really digging 5th right now. You can get the starter set for pretty cheap and it comes with pregens and a decent adventure. The backgrounds for the pregens are tied into the adventure in different, interesting ways.

You can also download the basic rules for free.
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

Bulhakov
2014-09-14, 07:44 AM
I'd say know when to quit/let go. Look for a local gaming group on campus.

If players are playing LoL in the background, or choosing another game, then don't force it.

Grinner
2014-09-14, 07:47 AM
Just one:

GET OUT.

Vitruviansquid
2014-09-14, 08:24 AM
Play something that isn't DnD and isn't as conducive to power gaming. DnD is especially rules-heavy, and your players' boredom is probably a result of other players taking so long for their turns because there are so many options available. You might even find a game in which powergaming is pointless or impossible.

You don't have to switch systems permanently. Just do a session or two of this other game to remind your players that there's more to tabletop RPG's than power gaming and give them a taste of an alternate way to play.

Geostationary
2014-09-14, 09:40 PM
Do you know what your players (and you) actually want out of a game? If we know what everyone's expectations are going in we can make much better recommendations, and if you know you'll be better able to run the game and know when you aren't having fun and need to make it known.

veti
2014-09-14, 10:34 PM
Play something that isn't DnD and isn't as conducive to power gaming. DnD is especially rules-heavy, and your players' boredom is probably a result of other players taking so long for their turns because there are so many options available. You might even find a game in which powergaming is pointless or impossible.

This.

All (recent) D&D editions are rules-heavy and have a tendency to focus obsessively on combat. Other games include:

Paranoia, where powergaming is quite literally punishable by death. (But then so is most everything else.)
Toon, where there is no such thing as powergaming because there's no real "rules" for determining outcomes.
Call of Cthulhu, where most all combat is inherently pointless and will just get you deeper into trouble.

Others can no doubt extend this list pretty much indefinitely...

Khaelic
2014-09-15, 09:52 AM
Or do adventures in which combat strength doesn't really help them achieve their goal, but that might bore them.

I understand where you're coming from with this idea; however I would caution anyone against this, as I've played with power-gamers, min-maxxers, and optimisers who specifically gear for combat. When this type of campaign, even a single encounter within a combat-oriented campaign, they resort to violence or combat even if the situation is combat-inappropriate. For example, while trying to steal an item with stealth, a player in question smashed into the house, killed its occupant and took the item after tossing the place.
If you try to force a combat-focused person to comply with a noncombat-focus, it ends up in the same conflict and frustration you're trying to avoid.

Sith_Happens
2014-09-15, 02:06 PM
The thread title's misleading. This isn't about power-gaming, it's about disinterest in roleplaying and/or lack of attention on the game in general (the "trying to tell each other what to do in combat" is a problem if and only if they think it's a problem or it adds too much time).

The first thing to do is straight up ask them if they're really only interested in combat or if there's a way that non-combat challenges can be more interesting. Actually, were you trying to have non-combat challenges in the first place? You mentioned that their response to being in town was "rest and go look for a fight," but if there aren't any immediately apparent alternatives then of course that's what they're going to say. Lots of players have trouble keeping themselves occupied between plot hooks, it just means you need to keep the hooks coming.

If they do say they're really only interested in combat, and if you're okay with running such a campaign, then just pick your favorite action-adventure games and CRPGs and shamelessly rip off take as much inspiration as you care to.

If they say that theoretically they might like other kinds of encounters and it's just the specific way you were going about that that didn't do it for them, I'm going to take a guess that they want to be able to roll their d20s at things more often. Lucky for you, that's exactly what skill challenges are for; they tell you what they want to accomplish, you ask them how they're going about doing it, they figure that out, you tell them what to roll. Just make sure you're not using the borked version of the guidelines for that from when the game first came out.

veti
2014-09-15, 05:10 PM
If they do say they're really only interested in combat, and if you're okay with running such a campaign, then just pick your favorite action-adventure games and CRPGs and shamelessly rip off take as much inspiration as you care to.

Actually, this got me thinking - if they are only interested in combat, then why not dispense with the rest of the game entirely? D&D originally grew out of wargaming; if these people just want to wargame, then give them wargames. There are lots of rules out there for that, but they're probably in a different section of the shop from the roleplaying stuff.

daremetoidareyo
2014-09-15, 08:44 PM
1 Give them a time dependent mission.
+
2 hit them HARD with a random encounter, drain most of the top level spells, a bunch of HP, some consumables.
=
3 no time to rest and heal: the adventure now requires stealth, diplomancy, and creativity...or they'll die.

Vitruviansquid
2014-09-15, 11:54 PM
If you deal with power gaming by simply raising the difficulty of encounters, you'll only foster more powergaming.