Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LX [Archive]

Heliomance

2014-09-14, 11:11 AM

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LIX. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was 60 threads ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, September 28th, 2014 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Heliomance. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, October 12th, 2014 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

In honour of an old-school chairwoman returning to the competition, we're having an old-school secret ingredient this time! The Secret Ingredient for this, the 60th iteration of Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground is:
Sword and Fist's Lasher!
We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

Allez, optimiser!

Contestants

Judges

The Builds

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202)
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182492)
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186097)
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190607)
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10976416)
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198921)
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206576)
Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210071)
Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214198)
Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217441)
Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956)
Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224008)
Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227304)
Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229688)
Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346)
Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236908)
Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239786)
Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243052)
Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246072)
Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249542)
Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252923)
Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13865473)
Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255215)
Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260333)
Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263173)
Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266709)
Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270196)
Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274122)
Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279116)
Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15216595)
Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287314)
Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291294)
Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297327)
Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302487)
Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307823)
Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312773)
Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317934)
Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325164)
Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330890)
Iron Chef LV: Mountebank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336373-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LV)
Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342807-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVI)
Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349040-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVII)
Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357412-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVIII)
Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364667-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LIX)

Heliomance

2014-09-14, 11:13 AM

FAQ:
What's this even about? I'm glad you asked, actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415117&postcount=1)

Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Heliomance is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirements for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Ruling on Generic Classes? It's now tucked away in the OP -
[quote=Iron Chef OP]Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.

So, does this mean we're back to numerical scores?
Yes, yes it does.

Dude, what's with the spelling of optimisation?
I'm English. That's how you spell it.

How does the Lasher interact with the Exotic Weapons Master?
For the purposes of this contest, they are completely separate.

Are we treating the whip as a ranged or melee weapon?
3.5 rules apply. It's a melee weapon with 15' reach.

The class grants Improved Trip and Improved Disarm and mentions that Combat Expertise isn't needed. Do you still need a high enough Int score to get them?
Yes. If your Int is below 13, you won't receive those feats.

Does Stunning Snap do damage or not?
Yes, for the purposes of this contest, it does do normal damage in addition to the stun effect.

Can I use <insert unusual whip-like weapon here> instead of a normal whip?
Yes, as long as it's described as a whip and has 15' reach, and I'll allow the relevant proficiency and Weapon Focus feats to be used as prereqs instead. That said, a small Scorpion Tail Whip does 1d3 damage, and a medium one does 1d4. Not 1d33 and 1d34.
Edited to add: It has come to my attention that several unusual whip-like weapons don't explicitly call out that they have reach. If a weapon is described as a whip, assume it inherits the whip rules on reach and threatening unless otherwise stated.

How do Crack of Fate/Doom interact with TWF?
You only get one extra attack (two for Crack of Doom) no matter how many whips you're wielding. You can, however, freely choose which whip makes the extra attack(s).

Sian

2014-09-14, 11:18 AM

uhh... have actually tried to incorperate Lasher in a fair few builds for different contests around here, never quite being able to

KrimsonNekros

2014-09-14, 11:26 AM

two ideas have immediately popped into my head, and one's already got the stub figured out.

Amphetryon

2014-09-14, 11:38 AM

WhamBamSam

2014-09-14, 11:41 AM

So, a couple questions.

1. The Improved Trip/Improved Disarm bonus feats mention not needing Combat Expertise, but not the Int 13 prereq. I take it that the latter is still necessary to make use of the feats?

2. Stunning Snap contradicts itself.
Stunning Snap: A lasher can use a whip or whip dagger to stun a creature instead of inflicting subdual or normal damage. The lasher can use this ability once per round, but no more than once per level per day. The lasher must declare she is using a stun attack before making an attack roll. (A missed attack roll ruins the attempt.) A foe struck by a whip or whip dagger must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + the lasher's level + Strength modifier), in addition to receiving normal damage (subdual or standard). If the saving throw fails, the opponent is stunned for one round. A stunned character cannot act and loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, while attackers get a +2 bonus on attack rolls against a stunned opponent. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned by the lasher's stunning attack.Emphais mine. Since the second bolded line is the one with the actual descriptive "crunch" text, I'm assuming that's the one we're going by, but I wanted to make sure.

Anyhow, definitely going to try putting something together for this one. The only thing I've got so far seems a little too obvious, but I'll see if I can't come up with some more interesting tricks.

Heliomance

2014-09-14, 11:47 AM

Theoretically, the Lasher got folded into 3.5's Exotic Weapon Master PrC upon that class's release. How are we handling Exotic Weapon Master for purposes of this round?

EDIT TO ADD: At the time of the Lasher's printing, the whip was treated as a ranged weapon with a fixed range; 3.5 changed the whip to a melee weapon. How are we treating the whip for purposes of this round, and how abilities such as Close Combat apply?

It did? I knew EWM replaced a whole host of classes that had absolutely nothing to do with it, I didn't know the Lasher was among them. I never can remember where the thing that details class replacements is. Regardless, for this contest, Lasher and Exotic Weapons Master are entirely separate classes.

As regards the whip, we'll stick to 3.5 rules - it's a melee reach weapon. As it still provokes attacks of opportunity, I don't see that Close Combat needs to be modified at all.

So, a couple questions.

1. The Improved Trip/Improved Disarm bonus feats mention not needing Combat Expertise, but not the Int 13 prereq. I take it that the latter is still necessary to make use of the feats?

2. Stunning Snap contradicts itself. Emphais mine. Since the second bolded line is the one with the actual descriptive "crunch" text, I'm assuming that's the one we're going by, but I wanted to make sure.

Anyhow, definitely going to try putting something together for this one. The only thing I've got so far seems a little too obvious, but I'll see if I can't come up with some more interesting tricks.

1. Yes, the Int prereq stands.

2. Yes, we'll go with the second version - Stunning Snap does do damage.
.
I need to go walk the dog - I'll update the OP with these answers when I get back

sideswipe

2014-09-14, 12:09 PM

im very bad at 3.0 to 3.5 updates. when it says that the lasher has no weapon proficiencies, im guessing that means no extra and you keep the previous ones. not you lose them all. just want to check.

relytdan

2014-09-14, 12:11 PM

um I am surprised no one caught this - 23:59 GMT on Thursday, August 14th, 2014 - this date i presum was to be october? as it is september?

Heliomance

2014-09-14, 12:35 PM

um I am surprised no one caught this - 23:59 GMT on Thursday, August 14th, 2014 - this date i presum was to be october? as it is september?

Nothing to see here. Don't know what you're talking about >_> <_< >_>

dysprosium

2014-09-14, 12:51 PM

Iron Chef lives!

Welcome back everyone. Certainly an interesting pick for an ingredient. Let's see what we can do with it.

For a different question, is this the first time that a previous Chairman has returned for active duty?

Piggy Knowles

2014-09-14, 12:51 PM

I'll try to participate in some way this time. I haven't judged in a while, so maybe I'll try to judge this round.

Heliomance

2014-09-14, 01:51 PM

FAQs updated. I advise people to go read the second post.

Hrm. I actually think I might enter this myself. I see no particular reason why the chairman shouldn't enter, seeing as I have nothing to do with the judging.

Piggy Knowles

2014-09-14, 02:06 PM

So, I'm pretty sure I'm going to judge and not cook this round - I have a few ideas, but nothing I'm super excited about, and like I said I'm overdue for judging. Here's my criteria, straight up copypasta'd from the last time I judged:

In each category, I'm adding what I consider a "baseline build" - a build that, by my rubric, should get a 3.

Originality

Let me preface this section by saying that I don't think originality is wholly contingent upon choice of class. Two builds can have the exact same class levels, and yet end up going in completely different directions. Choice of class DOES matter, but I'm more interested in what your build actually does.

I also will not penalize you just because someone else has chosen the same class as you. If you submit something that I find unexpected, I'll score it high even if the next person has the exact same build. But if you submit an entry that I consider standard or expected, don't expect a lot of points even if no one else went that direction.

So what will gain you points? Use the abilities you have in fresh and interesting ways. Surprise me. Show me new combinations that I've never seen before. Meanwhile, using well-known builds will cause you to lose points.

BASELINE BUILD: A build that steers clear of known cheese and standard build elements, but doesn't necessarily make me sit up and go "wow." Builds that involve new combinations or focus on unexpected elements will score higher here, while builds that utilize known cheese or that are pretty much stock builds will score lower.

Power

There are two questions that will define how I rate a build's power. They are...

(1) How good is your build at its intended role?
(2) Will you stay relevant if your main "trick" does not work?

I don't expect every build to have 9th-level casting or manifesting, or to be able to bring the universe to its knees. However, if your build has a specific role or function, I expect you to be at least adequate at it. And if your build is a one-trick pony, it had better be a pretty good trick. I will deduct points if you can't function outside of a very limited set of parameters.

I'll also be looking for obvious ways your build could be improved (other than the most obvious "take fewer levels of the Secret Ingredient"). There's nothing wrong with sacrificing a little power for flavor, but if a choice makes you worse at your role, I will penalize for it. Just hope you make up the points in elegance or originality, I guess...

Finally, I don't plan to grade on a curve. Even if this is a weak ingredient, don't expect full points in Power if you've managed to just barely become adequate. Everyone's got the same ingredient to work with, after all.

BASELINE BUILD: A build that can meaningfully contribute to a party in most CR-appropriate encounters. Builds that can't, either because their overall power is too low or because they only function in very specific situations, will score lower here. Builds that are particularly proficient or useful, or that can meaningfully contribute even in over-CR'd encounters, will score higher.

Elegance

Obscurity or using multitude of sources doesn't bother me, but for the love of Pelor, please cite your work! I am very familiar with the system, but I like to have the books in front of me when I'm reviewing a build. I also don't like too much mixing of setting-specific material. (Note that just because a class or feat appears in a setting book doesn't mean that I will consider it setting-specific; I'm referring to things like regional feats, feats and classes that involve certain setting-specific orders, etc.)

Now that that's out of the way... I don't mind dips, as long as they are reasonable and make sense. However, I will not ignore the "fluff" requirements of a class. If a prestige class requires you to be a member of the Wizards of the Unseen University and your build glosses over that requirement, expect to see a small deduction.

In any case, while I won't penalize for dips unless your build is nothing but, I do like nice clean builds, where everything works in harmony, so you can pick up extra points that way. I will also give out small bonuses here if everything is written up cleanly, in an engaging manner. Nothing huge - the build is most important. But presentation DOES matter, and if you do a good job with it, I think you should be rewarded. I don't need three pages of backstory, but I do like to see more than a list of abilities.

I'm mildly cheese-tolerant - I don't mind characters being effective or using abilities in new and exciting ways, as long as the rules do indeed back you up. But this should be something you are willing to sit down with other human beings and actually play, so keep the Vieux Boulougne at home. Also, this should go without saying, but if a build element is illegal (failing to qualify for a feat/PrC, for instance), I will deduct for it.

BASELINE BUILD: A build that you can pick up and walk over to almost any table, and it won't raise any eyebrows. Builds that are DM-dependent or questionable rules-wise will score lower here, as will builds that are clunky and messy. Builds that are a thing of beauty will score higher here - ones that make even the stuffiest DM sit up and say, hey, that's awesome, I'd love to have you in our group.

Use of Secret Ingredient

This one's pretty simple. Do you use the secret ingredient's abilities to good effect, or are they more of a footnote? Is there another class that could have done a better job at what you are trying to do? Your goal here is to highlight the secret ingredient, not to mask it. You will gain points by taking advantage of all the abilities provided, by using them in effective ways (an ability that would have been cool at level 6 won't score points with me if you don't pick it up until level 12), and by demonstrating how the SI brings your build together. You will lose points by dropping too many levels, failing to take advantage of the class's core abilities and pre-requisites, etc. You will automatically get minimum points here if you don't actually qualify for the PrC, so double-check those skill points!

BASELINE BUILD: A build that manages to use the secret ingredient without crying out to me, "HEY, this is only here because of a stupid contest, OK!" (I know, it might be hard with this one :smalltongue:) Builds that utilize all of the SI's abilities to good effect, and who really sell the idea that only the SI would have worked here, will score higher. Builds that don't really get any use out of the class features or pre-reqs, or that would really obviously just do better with another option, will score lower.

Heliomance, I'd like a chairman's ruling on the capstone ability, Death Spiral.

All foes within a 15-foot radius of the lasher must make a Reflex save against a DC equal to the lasher's attack roll. Opponents who fail are stunned for 1d4+1 rounds. Stunned opponents must make a successful Fortitude save (DC 18) or become helpless for 1d4—1 rounds (minimum 1 round).

Regarding this ability, is this implying that anyone who fails the first save and becomes stunned must then also make a Fortitude save or become helpless? Or is the last quoted line only for opponents that were already stunned prior to using Death Spiral (such as via the SI's Stunning Snap ability)?

Heliomance

2014-09-14, 02:08 PM

Anyone who fails the first save must make a second save or become helpless.

sideswipe

2014-09-14, 02:17 PM

What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Kuulvheysoon is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

(highlighted) wanna change it again?

also it does not state what the action is for the death spiral, are we assuming standard?

WhamBamSam

2014-09-14, 02:43 PM

Another couple questions about Death Spiral. It has a Save DC equal to the Lasher's attack roll. If you hit multiple enemies, do you make multiple attack rolls to determine the DC for each of them? If not, and you have different attack bonuses against different enemies (say due to Knowledge Devotion or something), would you just add the appropriate bonuses to the single roll like with Great Flyby Attack?

In other news, my idea doesn't feel all that original, but I think I like it enough to submit anyway. I'll try to get it done over the course of the next few days.

Piggy Knowles

2014-09-14, 02:47 PM

also it does not state what the action is for the death spiral, are we assuming standard?

From the ability description:

The death spiral is a supernatural ability.

Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise.

Unless someone has a compelling reason why it should be considered otherwise, I'll be assuming Death Spiral is a standard action when I judge.

Heliomance

2014-09-14, 02:48 PM

WhamBamSam

2014-09-14, 03:01 PM

I'll say you make a single attack roll. If you have different bonuses against different enemies, add the bonuses like you said. Not really sure it's particularly relevant though, seeing as we're just making builds here, not actually playing them.Mostly, but there are a few corner cases (which I may or may not be using) which would make some of those specifics relevant.

The Viscount

2014-09-14, 03:07 PM

I'd like to cook for this one, we'll see if I can think of something worthwhile.

Amphetryon

2014-09-14, 04:01 PM

I'll say you make a single attack roll. If you have different bonuses against different enemies, add the bonuses like you said. Not really sure it's particularly relevant though, seeing as we're just making builds here, not actually playing them.

To be fair, a decent number of judges have rendered scores based upon how the builds' abilities would actually play at a theoretical table.

Venger

2014-09-14, 04:17 PM

wow that certainly is an ingredient.

thanks for those FAQs. this class has a lot of weird rules areas in its wake.

down to cook. I'll whip something up.

DeAnno

2014-09-14, 04:20 PM

I'll likely compete or judge. I have a couple thoughts but nothing as far as a stub yet.

sideswipe

2014-09-14, 04:21 PM

I'll whip something up.

*facepalm*

MilesTiden

2014-09-14, 04:24 PM

Hmm. I think I have an idea for this. I'll try to flesh it out enough to submit.

Heliomance

2014-09-14, 04:36 PM

New entry to the FAQ.

KrimsonNekros

2014-09-14, 06:32 PM

This build is really coming together very well. {redacted} and {redacted} are meshing together very well for both style and power in this build. Just have to figure out my skills now.

sideswipe

2014-09-14, 06:42 PM

i keep finding things i want to use/abuse but its usually a single word away from actually working....

sideswipe

2014-09-14, 07:18 PM

Hrm. I actually think I might enter this myself. I see no particular reason why the chairman shouldn't enter, seeing as I have nothing to do with the judging.

actually, just to point out why you probably should not,

people will submit builds to you before the reveal, you then get to see these builds before hand and (im really not suggesting you would but as a possibility) you could then tweak your build after seeing these.

then again as the chairman it is up to you if you can enter or not. i'm personally not against it.

DeAnno

2014-09-14, 08:27 PM

The chair also is sometimes put on the spot in PM to make calls about questions that are rather revealing of the direction a build is going. I think the most elegant solution in future rounds would be for the chair to choose the next SI during the previous judging round, and complete an entry before the SI was announced. That being said, I don't particularly have a problem with the chair competing this round.

Shinken

2014-09-14, 08:35 PM

I might judge this, if you'll have me.

Amphetryon

2014-09-14, 08:43 PM

Ikeren

2014-09-14, 08:51 PM

I entered last one, I'll judge this one. Why is Wild Cohort specifically allowed?

KrimsonNekros

2014-09-14, 08:54 PM

Given the current state of anonymity of entries, how do you propose that the bolded portion is enforced, aside from the Honor System?

They immediately send a pm with their entry to the first entrant to submit?

WhamBamSam

2014-09-14, 08:54 PM

I entered last one, I'll judge this one. Why is Wild Cohort specifically allowed?Because it's not pseudo-Leadership so much as a pseudo-Animal Companion.

Amphetryon

2014-09-14, 08:58 PM

They immediately send a pm with their entry to the first entrant to submit?

That doesn't indicate that they completed their entry before announcing. . . or even that the person to whom they PM their entry is, in fact, the first entrant; it's simply additional layers to the Honor System.

Thurbane

2014-09-14, 09:03 PM

Welcome aboard/back Heliomance! :smallbiggrin:

3.0 Lasher, hey? Interesting choice. Doubt I'll be able to get an entry in (trying to find work IRL is eating most of my spare time at the moment), but I'll keep an eager eye on this one.

DeAnno

2014-09-14, 09:05 PM

They could send it to anyone not participating who would login sometime during the judging period to make sure they posted the same build they PMed. It's made a bit easier because the "honorer" only has to login once over a two week period, not on a specific day.

AvatarVecna

2014-09-14, 09:28 PM

I don't think the chairperson should be able to submit an entry. I have my reasons...

1) The chairperson chooses the ingredient; while they aren't necessarily the best at optimizing said ingredient, they would have much more theoretical time to put together builds. Thus, the chairperson, were they allowed to compete, could spend a year putting together 20 different builds focused on a particular terrible PrC, then make it the secret ingredient; everyone else would have two weeks, and the chair could cherry pick whichever of their own builds they want to submit, based on the judging criteria of the declared judges.

2) It's been stated that the chairperson could alter builds to be slightly worse; I don't think this would fly, since the lot of us are a little more perceptive than that. We'd notice if the builds we submitted were significantly worse, or even just slightly different mechanically. I doubt the chair could even get away with a misspelled character name. That said, the point of the chairperson is that, by sending the builds to them, they submit all of the builds to the thread, so that no personal bias between judge and chef, if such bias existed, could possibly come into play. The chair is the only person who knows who submitted what, and the bias that could come to exist by virtue of their participation in the competition would ruin the concept of anonymity this contest has.

3) Some have suggested that the chairperson send their build to a designated, unbiased person, so that they can't be accused of going above the rules; this doesn't work, because the impartial person chefs are supposed to send their builds to IS THE CHAIRPERSON. If we did that, we may as well elect said other person to be the chair, while the current chair became a contestant... except that wouldn't solve the first problem: the ex-chair chose the ingredient, and would've had time to prepare many builds.

I'm not saying these things because I think anyone here would be so underhanded; I'm saying them because it's the principle of the thing.

Bottom line: the chairperson shouldn't participate in the competition as a judge or a contestant, only as the chairperson.

Shinken

2014-09-15, 02:10 AM

Heliomance

2014-09-15, 02:33 AM

I think what I'll do is enter, but flag up my builds as mine. They won't be eligible to win, but I'd like to show them off and get judges' feedback on them.

A_S

2014-09-15, 02:44 AM

The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack.

Close Combat: At 1st level, the lasher can attack an opponent in a threatened square with a whip or whip dagger and not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Whip Lash: The lasher can make attacks of opportunity with his whip or whip dagger against foes within 5 feet as if it were a melee weapon.
Do you need to threaten the square you're targeting with a second (non-whip) weapon in order to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity? Or does the Whip Lash ability cause you to threaten adjacent squares (even though it doesn't directly use the word "threaten"), and you only provoke AoO's against more distant targets? Or should we assume that the Close Combat ability really means "an opponent within range of your whip?"

Heliomance

2014-09-15, 03:10 AM

Do you need to threaten the square you're targeting with a second (non-whip) weapon in order to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity? Or does the Whip Lash ability cause you to threaten adjacent squares (even though it doesn't directly use the word "threaten"), and you only provoke AoO's against more distant targets? Or should we assume that the Close Combat ability really means "an opponent within range of your whip?"

Currently AFB, but on the basis of those quotes, I will say Whip Lash causes you to threaten adjacent squares, Close Combat only stops your whip attacks from provoking attacks of opportunity from opponents you threaten.

Piggy Knowles

2014-09-15, 06:33 AM

I think what I'll do is enter, but flag up my builds as mine. They won't be eligible to win, but I'd like to show them off and get judges' feedback on them.

I'd have no problem with that.

dysprosium

2014-09-15, 08:39 AM

I think what I'll do is enter, but flag up my builds as mine. They won't be eligible to win, but I'd like to show them off and get judges' feedback on them.

When mattie_p was Chairman of Zinc Saucier he entered a build with those stipulations.

That being said there shouldn't be a problem for our Chair to do the same.

Darrin

2014-09-15, 10:57 AM

I think what I'll do is enter, but flag up my builds as mine. They won't be eligible to win, but I'd like to show them off and get judges' feedback on them.

I'm good with that.

KingAtomsk

2014-09-15, 11:58 AM

Alright, I caved. I'll enter. Already have a build stub.

Deadline

2014-09-15, 11:59 AM

I think what I'll do is enter, but flag up my builds as mine. They won't be eligible to win, but I'd like to show them off and get judges' feedback on them.

I understand your desire to get feedback, but would urge you not to do this. It destroys anonymity, which means that you can never be sure (despite the awesome quality of the judges we get) that you are getting a judgement based solely on your build.

That said, if you still want to do this how about a suggestion? Instead of adding more work to the judging plate, how about the chefs and folks in the thread judge your build for you? You'd still get your feedback, and it would have that extra layer of "this build isn't in the running" for the competition.

relytdan

2014-09-15, 12:10 PM

I understand your desire to get feedback, but would urge you not to do this. It destroys anonymity, which means that you can never be sure (despite the awesome quality of the judges we get) that you are getting a judgement based solely on your build.

That said, if you still want to do this how about a suggestion? Instead of adding more work to the judging plate, how about the chefs and folks in the thread judge your build for you? You'd still get your feedback, and it would have that extra layer of "this build isn't in the running" for the competition.

I like this option a little better

OMG PONIES

2014-09-15, 02:21 PM

I think what I'll do is enter, but flag up my builds as mine. They won't be eligible to win, but I'd like to show them off and get judges' feedback on them.

My only concern is that judges would, consciously or not, compare scored builds against your exhibition build. To prevent this, you could provide your build after revealing final scores, giving judges and everyone else something to talk about while you got the next round's thread up and running.

AvatarVecna

2014-09-15, 02:28 PM

My only concern is that judges would, consciously or not, compare scored builds against your exhibition build. To prevent this, you could provide your build after revealing final scores, giving judges and everyone else something to talk about while you got the next round's thread up and running.

I agree with OMG PONIES; posting after the judging deadline is over would allow for feedback without potentially poisoning the competition.

Piggy Knowles

2014-09-15, 02:38 PM

Heliomance

2014-09-15, 05:14 PM

Eh, while I agree there's a chance that it might influence a judge (for example, some judges base originality off of what the other entries did), I'm all for anything that makes chairing more palatable. It seems like a fairly thankless job, even more so than judging. After all, we've never to my knowledge had someone threaten to set a judge on fire during one if these contests...

Wait, what? What have I got myself into? O_o

The other option of course is to not reveal which mine is during the judging phase, and only disqualify it from the rankings at the reveal.

Venger

2014-09-15, 05:37 PM

Wait, what? What have I got myself into? O_o

The other option of course is to not reveal which mine is during the judging phase, and only disqualify it from the rankings at the reveal.

thrall of orcus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?302487-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XLIX/page10&highlight=fire)

in the redacted post, #266, the poster threatened to set kuulv on fire due to an unfavorable ruling.

Deadline

2014-09-15, 05:40 PM

The other option of course is to not reveal which mine is during the judging phase, and only disqualify it from the rankings at the reveal.

Again, this just adds more unnecessary work on the judges. Is there a particular reason you'd be opposed to the suggestion I offered above? I get that being the chairman may be less exciting than being a chef, but the structure we've had has worked really well.

relytdan

2014-09-15, 06:28 PM

Piggy Knowles

2014-09-15, 07:35 PM

No, wait, this is perfect. Now Heliomance can compete and chair, and I can both compete and judge. Two chairpersons - we should have thought of that ages ago!

AvatarVecna

2014-09-15, 07:43 PM

No, wait, this is perfect. Now Heliomance can compete and chair, and I can both compete and judge. Two chairpersons - we should have thought of that ages ago!

If two judges is great, why not 3? I'll do it. In all seriousness, I'm willing to do that, but I doubt anyone's interested in a third IC competition, and even if they are, I doubt they would want me as chairperson.

OMG PONIES

2014-09-15, 07:43 PM

well heres is an awkward one for some or maybe not-
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372145-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX

I am not planning a build there until there is something from this chairman to say otherwise.

Two Iron Chefs?! Christmas comes early!

Eh, while I agree there's a chance that it might influence a judge (for example, some judges base originality off of what the other entries did), I'm all for anything that makes chairing more palatable. It seems like a fairly thankless job, even more so than judging. After all, we've never to my knowledge had someone threaten to set a judge on fire during one if these contests...

That's just because nobody's scored me low enough :smallfurious:.

Darrin

2014-09-15, 07:47 PM

No, wait, this is perfect. Now Heliomance can compete and chair, and I can both compete and judge. Two chairpersons - we should have thought of that ages ago!

And you finally have an excuse to dust off that Time-Turner to allow you enough time to do both.

Heliomance

2014-09-16, 02:32 AM

No, wait, this is perfect. Now Heliomance can compete and chair, and I can both compete and judge. Two chairpersons - we should have thought of that ages ago!

Except I have no clue what to do with Acolyte of the Ego :P

My desire to compete isn't a generic desire to compete. I've only entered in two Iron Chefs before; I don't have the optimisation chops to compete in general. It's more that I suddenly had a really cool idea for a Lasher build that I want to show off :P

Venger

2014-09-16, 03:53 AM

Except I have no clue what to do with Acolyte of the Ego :P

My desire to compete isn't a generic desire to compete. I've only entered in two Iron Chefs before; I don't have the optimisation chops to compete in general. It's more that I suddenly had a really cool idea for a Lasher build that I want to show off :P

I'm fine with you competing with us via the method you suggested. due to the obscurity, 3.0 nature, and difficulty of use, we shouldn't have 20+ entries this time around. one more, especially if it's after the reveal, shouldn't make much of a difference.

Sian

2014-09-16, 05:15 AM

are you going to adopt the 200.000xp ceiling that Zinc and Junkyard have started doing (giving 10k for LA Buy-off, multiclassing xp penalties, custum item creation or whatever you find) or is it still strict ECL20 with protential penalties for multiclassing?

Heliomance

2014-09-16, 05:22 AM

OMG PONIES

2014-09-16, 06:25 AM

We've generally gone with don't worry about XP, just be 20th level, but LA buyoff isn't a thing. Also, multiclassing XP penalties aren't a thing. Seriously, that's a stupid rule. The only penalties for multiclassing are a potential Elegance hit if you do it excessively.

Is this an official ruling from the chair on how judges must approach these issues, departing with how they were treated in previous rounds?

Heliomance

2014-09-16, 06:34 AM

Is that different from how it's been treated in past rounds? What's been the existing protocol then?

OMG PONIES

2014-09-16, 06:43 AM

Existing protocol has been to leave these items up to each individual judge.

Heliomance

2014-09-16, 07:04 AM

Existing protocol has been to leave these items up to each individual judge.

Well, do that then. But yeah, I'm not giving a specific amount of XP - just do a 20 level build. But in general, I think LA buyoff tends to be avoided.

dysprosium

2014-09-16, 08:36 AM

Are we really doing two competitions?

relytdan

2014-09-16, 12:04 PM

it appears that we are running 2 seperate contests.

KingAtomsk

2014-09-16, 12:43 PM

Lasher
https://38.media.tumblr.com/93f3f8a4c448af51a12fbd8636b676c2/tumblr_n8xn10se4H1sn75h6o1_500.gif

WhamBamSam

2014-09-16, 01:26 PM

So the FAQ says that weird variant whips are fair game for qualification. Can I assume that extends to the Wound ability, which says "a normal whip" or are such whips still stuck dealing non-lethal damage?

Heliomance

2014-09-16, 02:01 PM

Judge_Worm

2014-09-16, 02:08 PM

Will the Lasher's sneak attack stack with other sneak attacks (as long as it's done with a whip)?

Sian

2014-09-16, 02:17 PM

Will the Lasher's sneak attack stack with other sneak attacks (as long as it's done with a whip)?

Much easier if you read the entry, as it says yes twice in the Whip Sneak attack entry

This ability stacks with any other sneak attack ability.

If a lasher gets a general sneak attack bonus from another source (such as rogue levels), the bonuses to damage stack.

skimped out on ranks in spot? :smallwink:

KingAtomsk

2014-09-16, 02:18 PM

I have submitted my entry!

The Viscount

2014-09-16, 02:19 PM

It says as such in the ability description.

Sian

2014-09-16, 02:20 PM

Lasher
https://38.media.tumblr.com/93f3f8a4c448af51a12fbd8636b676c2/tumblr_n8xn10se4H1sn75h6o1_500.gif

Is it a hint that you're going to submit a Loxo Lasher?

Judge_Worm

2014-09-16, 02:37 PM

Much easier if you read the entry, as it says yes twice in the Whip Sneak attack entry
skimped out on ranks in spot? :smallwink:

No, skimped out on search, as I read the sneak attack entry twice before asking.

One more question:
Will making Indianna Jones references deduct from the originality score?

relytdan

2014-09-16, 07:14 PM

Lasher
https://38.media.tumblr.com/93f3f8a4c448af51a12fbd8636b676c2/tumblr_n8xn10se4H1sn75h6o1_500.gif

I must say I loved this elephant with the ribbon - on a side note i think i have something for the si working out the bugs

OMG PONIES

2014-09-16, 09:00 PM

Two Round LXs make me happy, but make my spreadsheet sad. Also, I've got an idea coming to fruition on this one.

One more question:
Will making Indianna Jones references deduct from the originality score?

Different judges have reacted differently in the past to pop culture references and/or homages.

KrimsonNekros

2014-09-16, 09:18 PM

Two Round LXs make me happy, but make my spreadsheet sad. Also, I've got an idea coming to fruition on this one.

http://www.buzzkidderoriginals.com/images/product/tshirts/ccc4206_24.jpg

dysprosium

2014-09-17, 08:41 AM

One more question:
Will making Indianna Jones references deduct from the originality score?

Different judges have reacted differently in the past to pop culture references and/or homages.

I won my first gold with a Michael Westen based build during the Mountebank round.

MilesTiden

2014-09-17, 04:37 PM

Stunning Snap: A lasher can use a whip or whip dagger to stun a creature instead of inflicting subdual or normal damage. The lasher can use this ability once per round, but no more than once per level per day. The lasher must declare she is using a stun attack before making an attack roll. (A missed attack roll ruins the attempt.) A foe struck by a whip or whip dagger must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + the lasher's level + Strength modifier), in addition to receiving normal damage (subdual or standard). If the saving throw fails, the opponent is stunned for one round. A stunned character cannot act and loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, while attackers get a +2 bonus on attack rolls against a stunned opponent. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned by the lasher's stunning attack.

Huh. That's actually pretty neat that it's based off of character level rather than class level. Unless I'm misreading something?

Deadline

2014-09-17, 04:41 PM

Huh. That's actually pretty neat that it's based off of character level rather than class level. Unless I'm misreading something?

You are kinda misreading. I can't recall the reference at the moment, but when reading abilities that refer to level, you always assume class level unless it explicitly mentions character level.

Heliomance

2014-09-17, 05:04 PM

kestrel404

2014-09-19, 08:49 AM

Hmm...I have an idea for this. It is a bit silly, but I think it's a nice twist on a classic idea.

Heliomance

2014-09-19, 09:55 AM

Hmm...I have an idea for this. It is a bit silly, but I think it's a nice twist on a classic idea.

Several people seem to be entering silly things from what I've got so far. What is it about this ingredient? :P

kestrel404

2014-09-19, 10:39 AM

Several people seem to be entering silly things from what I've got so far. What is it about this ingredient? :P

Whips. Whips are really that bad.

arkangel111

2014-09-19, 07:17 PM

My build is done. The fastest one I ever cooked and I like the visuals and the power. Too bad I can't find a perfect picture to go with it. If anyone isn't entering but has some mad drawing skills pm me. Working on fluff and I'll be done otherwise.

Heliomance

2014-09-22, 05:53 AM

I've got my build basically done, but I'm blanking on fluff. I can't think of anything interesting to write!

With my previous entries, for Anointed Knight, I went "Why would someone want to invest so much into one weapon?", came up with a couple of fluff reasons, and built around them. With this one, I noticed a neat mechanical trick and built to use it, and now I'm stuck for fluff. It also made filling out the last few levels quite hard, once I'd achieved the trick and finished the SI >_>

dysprosium

2014-09-23, 08:42 AM

I'm still working on my build. Mostly the fluff now.

I had planned on combining the two SIs even before Heliomance decided to make it a thing. :smallwink:

Heliomance

2014-09-23, 08:45 AM

Dammit, you're going to make me have to work out some sort of actual prize now! I wasn't expecting anyone to manage to build anything actually functional out of the pair of them!

dysprosium

2014-09-23, 11:12 AM

Dammit, you're going to make me have to work out some sort of actual prize now! I wasn't expecting anyone to manage to build anything actually functional out of the pair of them!

I guess functionality can be determined by the judges. Besides you're original challenge was to make them competitve for both contests.

So if my build bombs in both, you're off the hook?

Heliomance

2014-09-23, 12:27 PM

I guess functionality can be determined by the judges. Besides you're original challenge was to make them competitve for both contests.

So if my build bombs in both, you're off the hook?

Pretty much, yeah :P

Troacctid

2014-09-23, 12:42 PM

Pretty much, yeah :P

Well so much for my Commoner 18/Lasher 1/Acolyte of the Ego 1 build.

Zaq

2014-09-23, 01:44 PM

I think my favorite part of this ingredient is the stipulation that you have to own a whip. Because, you know, there could be someone out there who invests a feat in Weapon Focus: Whip just in the vague hope that they might get one for their birthday, and we don't want those types in our Lasher club!

Heliomance

2014-09-24, 01:34 AM

FAQs updated.

Sian

2014-09-24, 12:38 PM

as my internal roundabout is blocked at all exits leaving me running around between overly obvious, uninspirational and boring, i'm not going to cook this time around ... might take a stab at judging instead through

Deadline

2014-09-24, 03:32 PM

I've got an entry done except for fluff, and I find that the character is just .... blah. It's ok (and my other ideas are only legal because of one of the Chairman's rulings), but they are all just ... average. *sigh* I think I'm bowing out this round.

Muggins

2014-09-24, 06:44 PM

My build is complete, but lacking in fluff and explanation.

I mean, it functions, right? That's the important thing. :smallsigh:

Deadasadoor

2014-09-24, 07:29 PM

Hey Playgrounders! I've been following Iron Chef for a while, but never made an account. I'll be entering a build for this contest. Should be done soon.

OMG PONIES

2014-09-25, 05:40 AM

Hey Playgrounders! I've been following Iron Chef for a while, but never made an account. I'll be entering a build for this contest. Should be done soon.

Welcome and good luck! My build has also taken shape; it's just about whether or not I can get in a properly formatted entry by the deadline.

Venger

2014-09-25, 06:02 AM

My dish is cooked. >:]

This ingredient was punishing.

Deadline

2014-09-25, 09:25 AM

The problem I'm currently looking at is two-fold. The build I have completed that I think will do best in the round is not one that I would actually play, and thus I can't muster the motivation to submit it. And the two builds that I find more interesting (from a character perspective) are not all that suited to the SI.

Heliomance

2014-09-25, 11:55 AM

My dish is cooked. >:]

This ingredient was punishing.

It wasn't that bad; you just need to whip it into shape.

Zaq

2014-09-25, 12:01 PM

I naively thought we'd avoid the Devo jokes until the reveal. Silly me.

OMG PONIES

2014-09-25, 12:20 PM

My dish is cooked. >:]

This ingredient was punishing.

It wasn't that bad; you just need to whip it into shape.

I thought we were above cracking jokes here.

I naively thought we'd avoid the Devo jokes until the reveal. Silly me.

Noooo! My entire concept has been revealed! *throws away red ceiling lamp worn as hat*

Fax Celestis

2014-09-25, 12:23 PM

I posted it in the other thread, but I want to post it here too: can the next ingredient be one of those ridiculous "Dragon of 25+ HD" PrCs in Draconomicon?

Heliomance

2014-09-25, 01:54 PM

I posted it in the other thread, but I want to post it here too: can the next ingredient be one of those ridiculous "Dragon of 25+ HD" PrCs in Draconomicon?

Bit hard to do a 20 level build for :P

Fax Celestis

2014-09-25, 01:59 PM

Bit hard to do a 20 level build for :P

Well, we could up the cap for that one instance. But yeah, it does have some complications.

Darrin

2014-09-25, 02:12 PM

Bit hard to do a 20 level build for :P

Most of them you can get into pre-epic, but a lot of them require BAB in the +15 to +20 range. I think Hidecarved Dragon is the only one that you might have a chance to finish off within 20 levels. I've seen a couple stabs at it, but I don't think I've seen a completed build.

Thurbane

2014-09-25, 05:50 PM

Hmm, wonder how many entry characters will have names and/or a blurb related to a certain 80s song by a certain 80s alt rock/synthpop band who wore flower pots on their head? :smallbiggrin:

Deadline

2014-09-25, 05:56 PM

Hmm, wonder how many entry characters will have names and/or a blurb related to a certain 80s song by a certain 80s alt rock/synthpop band who wore flower pots on their head? :smallbiggrin:

http://www.rockandrollstories.info/photos/redhatdevo.jpg
Pictured: Gods of "poptimization"

Venger

2014-09-25, 06:46 PM

Noooo! My entire concept has been revealed! *throws away red ceiling lamp worn as hat*

it's not too late.

to whip it.

Thurbane

2014-09-25, 08:18 PM

For the curious, the headwear is called an Energy Dome. I saw the band in question about 4 years ago and they were still very awesome.

Heliomance

2014-09-26, 07:15 AM

So far I have six entries in with less than two days remaining!

I'm fairly sure one of them was largely an excuse for a terrible pun >_<

Gemini476

2014-09-26, 08:13 AM

Most of them you can get into pre-epic, but a lot of them require BAB in the +15 to +20 range. I think Hidecarved Dragon is the only one that you might have a chance to finish off within 20 levels. I've seen a couple stabs at it, but I don't think I've seen a completed build.

I've seen a build that combined a Kensai and a Warchanter doing the Believe In Me Who Believes In You trick, followed by a Dragonwrought Kobold using the BAB+30 from that trick with losing twelve negative levels through playing patty-cake with a Wight to grab all twelve levels of Dragon Ascendant pre-Epic.

It's one of the very few ways to get a Divine Rank by RAW, since the capstone of Dragon Ascendant makes you a quasidiety (a.k.a. Divine Rank 0).

Heliomance

2014-09-26, 09:15 AM

I've seen a build that combined a Kensai and a Warchanter doing the Believe In Me Who Believes In You trick

I don't know that trick - what is it?

dysprosium

2014-09-26, 09:47 AM

So far I have six entries in with less than two days remaining!

You'll find a lot of us are terrible procrastinators.

I had something else to post here but I'll get to it later.

Gemini476

2014-09-26, 10:52 AM

I don't know that trick - what is it?
Spoilered for being a bit long and off-topic.
A Kensai can give his BAB to someone. As in his actual BAB. So if he gives BAB+10 (the maximum) to a Warchanter who already has BAB+20, that Warchanter now has BAB+30. He doesn't get any extra attacks or whatever, but that's alright.

And then the BAB+30 Warchanter uses his Inspire Legion capstone to make it so that all allies within 60ft have the same BAB as the highest amongst them. Which would be the Warchanter's BAB+30.

And that's the trick.

One way to apply it to something more than supercharging your troops is, as I mentioned, getting prestige classes you really shouldn't have access to.

If you have a True Dragon who has just lost twelve levels to a Wight and has a bunch of prerequisite feats (an old dragonwrought kobold dipping like crazy could conceavably do so by level eight, I think, assuming that they're actually a True Dragon), then when you give them back those levels while they're under the influence of Inspire Legion then they can take all twelve levels of Dragon Ascendant and, well, ascend.
Getting the necessary feats is a bit tricky, though. You'll have six feats from levels+flaws, and in addition to grabbing seven feats total you also need to a)be a first-level Sorcerer, b)have 25 CON, c)Have 13 Strength.
Oh, and you'll need to devour your entire hoard, which must be worth at least 100k gp. Get a few valuable art objects.

So, getting feats.

Draconic Knowledge. Requires another feat, Draconic Heritage, and a level of Sorcerer.
Fast Healing. Requires 25 CON and the ability to take [Epic] feats, so being a really old Dragon is enough.
Dragonwrought Kobold. So that you're a really old dragon. Make sure to also be one of the types that doesn't take a penalty to CON.
Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes. Either one can be picked up as a bonus feat - a 3rd-level Totem Barbarian could get either, depending on the totem.
Iron Will. Spend a bit of time and money running from slimey Otyughs.
Improved Speed. Requires you to be a dragon and have 13 STR.

So since this is an ECL 20 character before the trick is done, let's assume that +5 Inherent bonuses to CON from Wish are available. Then you need +2 more from wherever - perhaps lose fifteen levels instead, and Rage before you get them back (including Fast Healing as your sixth-level feat)?

So be a Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Sorcerer 1/Bear Totem Barbarian 3/Scout 1. Have two flaws, and at first level grab Dragonwrought Kobold, Draconic Heritage, and Draconic Knowledge. At third level, take Improved Speed. At fourth, Great Fortitude.
When you get back your fifteen lost levels, start out by taking three levels in Scout and getting Lightning Reflexes as your bonus feat. Your sixth-level feat should be Fast Healing, which you qualify for while raging (but only while raging - you still have it when you aren't, although you can't use it.)

The final build should look something like Sorcerer 1/Bear Totem Barbarian 3/Scout 4/Dragon Ascendant 12. You probably aren't going to be all that useful outside of what Divine Rank 0 gives you? Maybe? You have BAB+18, but most of your class features are low-level ones and you only have four feats left over to make yourself useful with.

I'm sure it could be done better than that, though.

OMG PONIES

2014-09-27, 05:25 AM

I've seen a build that combined a Kensai and a Warchanter doing the Believe In Me Who Believes In You trick, followed by a Dragonwrought Kobold using the BAB+30 from that trick with losing twelve negative levels through playing patty-cake with a Wight to grab all twelve levels of Dragon Ascendant pre-Epic.

It's one of the very few ways to get a Divine Rank by RAW, since the capstone of Dragon Ascendant makes you a quasidiety (a.k.a. Divine Rank 0).

The BAB trick, while it may invoke flying DMGs, is definitely an interesting one. Can you elaborate on the need for the multiple negative levels, though? I'm missing why it's necessary. Also, it sounds like you're saying that upon losing a negative level you could select an entirely new level for your character, effectively retraining multiple levels at once. Is that correct? If so, is there a RAW statement to that effect? Here's all I found regarding the loss of negative levels:

Negative levels remain until 24 hours have passed or until they are removed with a spell, such as restoration. If a negative level is not removed before 24 hours have passed, the affected creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ draining creature’s racial HD + draining creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). On a success, the negative level goes away with no harm to the creature. On a failure, the negative level goes away, but the creature’s level is also reduced by one. A separate saving throw is required for each negative level.

Venger

2014-09-27, 06:13 AM

(stuff)
the simplest way to eat a hoard that valuable is saffron. it exists on oerth, being a material component for true seeing

The BAB trick, while it may invoke flying DMGs, is definitely an interesting one. Can you elaborate on the need for the multiple negative levels, though? I'm missing why it's necessary. Also, it sounds like you're saying that upon losing a negative level you could select an entirely new level for your character, effectively retraining multiple levels at once. Is that correct? If so, is there a RAW statement to that effect? Here's all I found regarding the loss of negative levels:

I'm pretty sure he's talking about a variation on doing the wight thing, which gives you your experience/level "back" after having lost it. hinges on psionic restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/restorationPsionic.htm)

Gemini476

2014-09-27, 09:06 AM

I'm pretty sure he's talking about a variation on doing the wight thing, which gives you your experience/level "back" after having lost it. hinges on psionic restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/restorationPsionic.htm)

Yeah, that's probably the thing. I didn't remember the details off the top of my head, but I should probably just have said "do the wight thing".

Kensai are pretty interesting since as far as I know they're one of the very few ways to get BAB exceeding your hit dice. (The other one being questionable shenanigans with the Dragon type and dragonblood substitution levels.)

I suppose you could technically get into Dragon Ascendant without Doing the Wight Thing, but that would require you to know the exact minute that you level up so that you can get the boosted BAB and Rage going and whatever. So Doing the Wight Thing is simpler, since it's got a relatively short manifesting time. (I think the example in the DMG for time required to level up is 1d4 days or something?)

Venger

2014-09-27, 09:25 AM

Yeah, that's probably the thing. I didn't remember the details off the top of my head, but I should probably just have said "do the wight thing".

Kensai are pretty interesting since as far as I know they're one of the very few ways to get BAB exceeding your hit dice. (The other one being questionable shenanigans with the Dragon type and dragonblood substitution levels.)

I suppose you could technically get into Dragon Ascendant without Doing the Wight Thing, but that would require you to know the exact minute that you level up so that you can get the boosted BAB and Rage going and whatever. So Doing the Wight Thing is simpler, since it's got a relatively short manifesting time. (I think the example in the DMG for time required to level up is 1d4 days or something?)

no problem. it's tricky to remember all the nicknames people have for things sometimes.

yeah, kensai are kind of cool for that.

you could probably predict that with divination spells without too much trouble.

looking through my copy of the DMG, it doesn't say anything about that. some people houserule you need a little chill time to level up for whatever reason, but RAW, you can video game style level up right that second if you have all your paperwork in order.

Macabaret

2014-09-27, 10:44 PM

Hey! What'd'ya know? I managed to finish up one of my builds and it's been submitted.
The other build idea will, sadly, not be making an appearance in this contest, though. Still, one's not bad, huh?

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:07 AM

And that's time, ladies and gentlemen! Put your spatulas down and turn off your hobs! Please refrain from posting until I give the word, because it's time to see the dishes!

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:08 AM

A very self assured gentleman, I do believe you'll find his wit truly cutting!

Jacamo

CN: Human: Jester 6/ Acolyte of the Ego 7/ Lasher 7

Background

Background
I am Jacamo, jester extrodinare! king of jesters & jester of the king. If it would please the court I shall tell you a tale that is without end.
With his oratory & comedic abilities he spun a very good story along with his ability to disguise and alter his appearance it made for a very entertaining night.

Character

Abilities
Languages
Common, Draconic, Sylvan, Dwarven
32 point buy
str 13 dex 13 con 12 int 16 wis 10 cha 14
4 int +1
8 int +1
12 str +1
16 dex +1
20 str +1

Build

Build

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Jester 1
0
0
2
2
Climb 4, Craft (Leatherworking) 2cc, Disguise 4, Escape Artist 4, Intimidate 4, Perform (comedy) 4, Perform (oratory) 4, Truespeak 4, Tumble 4, Use Rope 4
Truename Training, Combat Expertise
Jester's audacity +1, jester's performance, fascinate, inspiring quip

2nd
Jester 2
1
0
3
3
Climb 5, Craft (Leatherworking) 2.5cc, Disguise 5, Escape Artist 5, Intimidate 5, Perform (comedy) 5, Perform (oratory) 5, Truespeak 5, Tumble 5, Use Rope 5
Deflect Arrows
Bonus feat

3rd
Jester 3
2
1
3
3
Climb 6, Craft (Leatherworking) 3cc, Disguise 6, Escape Artist 6, Intimidate 6, Perform (comedy) 6, Perform (oratory) 6, Truespeak 6, Tumble 6, Use Rope 6
weapon focus (whip)
Taunt

4th
Jester 4
3
1
4
4
Climb 7, Craft (Leatherworking) 3.5cc, Disguise 7, Escape Artist 7, Intimidate 7, Perform (comedy) 7, Perform (oratory) 7, Truespeak 7, Tumble 7, Use Rope 7
-
-

5th
Jester 5
3
1
4
4
Climb 8, Craft (Leatherworking) 4cc, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Intimidate 8, Perform (comedy) 8, Perform (oratory) 8, Truespeak 8, Tumble 8, Use Rope 8
-
jester's audacity +2

6th
Jester 6
4
2
5
5
Climb 9, Disguise 9, Escape Artist 9, Intimidate 9, Perform (comedy) 9, Perform (oratory) 9, Truespeak 9, Tumble 9, Use Rope 9, Use Magic Device 1
Power Attack, Snatch Arrows
Bonus feat, Calming performance

7th
Acolyte of the Ego 1
5
4
5
5
Climb 10cc, Disguise 10cc, Escape Artist 10cc, Perform (comedy) 10cc, Truespeak 10, Tumble 10cc, Use Rope 10cc, Use Magic Device 2cc
-
know personal truename

8th
Acolyte of the Ego 2
6
5
5
5
Disguise 11cc, Escape Artist 11cc, Perform (oratory) 10cc, Truespeak 11, Tumble 11cc, Use Rope 11cc, Use Magic Device 3cc<ST:Assume Quirk>
-
morphic cadence (cadence of the mighty bull)

9th
Acolyte of the Ego 3
7
5
6
6
Disguise 12cc, Escape Artist 12cc, Truespeak 12, Tumble 12cc, Use Rope 12cc, Use Magic Device 5cc<ST:Whip Climber>
Flay
resonant voice

10th
Acolyte of the Ego 4
8
6
6
6
Disguise 13cc, Escape Artist 13cc, Truespeak 13, Tumble 13cc, Use Rope 13cc, Use Magic Device 7cc<ST:Back on Your Feet>
-
morphic cadence (cadence of the prowling tiger)

11th
Acolyte of the Ego 5
9
6
6
6
Disguise 14cc, Escape Artist 14cc, Truespeak 14, Tumble 14cc, Use Rope 14cc, Use Magic Device 9cc<ST:Acrobatic Backstab>
-
cadence mastery

12th
Acolyte of the Ego 6
10
7
7
7
Disguise 15cc, Escape Artist 15cc, Truespeak 15, Tumble 15cc, Use Rope 15cc, Use Magic Device 13cc
Flay Foe
morphic cadence (cadence of the ursine heart)

13th
Acolyte of the Ego 7
11
7
7
7
Disguise 16cc, Escape Artist 16cc, Intimidate 11, Tumble 16cc, Use Rope 16cc, Use Magic Device 16cc
recitation of the saguine state
alter personal truename(-4), recitation feat

14th
Lasher 1
12
7
9
7
Disguise 17cc, Escape Artist 17, Intimidate 13, Tumble 17cc, Use Rope 17, Use Magic Device 17cc
-
whip sneak attach +1d6, close combat, wound, whip lash

15th
Lasher 2
13
7
10
7
Disguise 18cc, Escape Artist 18, Intimidate 15, Tumble 18cc, Use Rope 18, Use Magic Device 18cc
improved trip, Arterial Strike
improved trip, third hand

16th
Lasher 3
14
8
10
8
Disguise 19cc, Escape Artist 19, Intimidate 17, Tumble 19cc, Use Rope 18, Use Magic Device 18cc
-
crack of fate

17th
Lasher 4
15
8
11
8
Disguise 20cc, Escape Artist 20, Intimidate 19, Tumble 20cc, Use Rope 20, Use Magic Device 20cc
-
lashing whip

18th
Lasher 5
16
8
11
8
Disguise 21cc, Escape Artist 21, Intimidate 21, Tumble 21cc, Use Rope 21, Use Magic Device 21cc
Lunging Strike
sneak attack +2d6

19th
Lasher 6
17
9
12
9
Craft (Leatherworking) 5, Disguise 22cc, Escape Artist 22, Intimidate 22, Tumble 22cc, Use Rope 22, Use Magic Device 22cc
improved disarm
improved disarm

20th
Lasher 7
18
9
12
9
Disguise 23cc, Escape Artist 23, Intimidate 23, Truespeak 16, Tumble 23cc, Use Rope 23, Use Magic Device 23cc
-
stunning snap

Spells per Day

Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
3
0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
3
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
3
2
0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
3
3
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Spells Known

Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
5
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
6
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
6
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
6
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
6
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

0-LEVEL JESTER SPELLS
Create Water
Daze
Detect Magic
Light
Mage Hand
Prestidigitation

1ST-LEVEL JESTER SPELLS
Animate Rope
Disguise Self
Expeditious Retreat
Feather Fall

2ND-LEVEL JESTER SPELLS
Alter Self
Invisibility
Rope Trick

Level Breakdown

Level Breakdown
Jacamo when not entertaining has a great talent with the whip and it is said he can kill a flea on a dog's back from 20 feet away without harming the dog.
Jacamo has limited arcane spells to use along with his skills, tricks, feats and abilities making him fairly rounded with both combat & social skills.
The Jester picks up Weapon Proficiency whip, which with the rope skills, tricks and feats makes it the tool or weapon of choice
This build utilizes two unique SI's the Acolyte of the Ego & Lasher, it is felt that neither SI needs to reach its capstone ability to round out the build as presented which utilizes most of the effects of both SI's abilities.

*OPTIONAL
Elven chain
Whip
Whip-Dagger
Standard Adventure Kit

Sources

Sources
SRD
Jester (dragcomp p36)
Acolyte of the Ego (tom p204)
Lasher (s&f p25)

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:10 AM

Indiana? We called the dog Indiana!

H.W. Jones Jr

NG: Human: Fighter 5/ Lasher 10/ Occult Slayer 2/ Pious Templar 3

History

History
When Jones was younger he had several interesting adventures one such mis-adventure had him searching in an attempt to retrieve an artifact of some importance which had him litterally in the thick of several cirus animals of multiple types. When Jones fellinto a lions cage with only a whip to help keep the beast at bay. He is noted for his sense of humor, deep knowledge of many ancient civilizations and languages. This experience would help shape his future as a noted Archaeologist, Archaeology professor & retriever of Antiquities.

Attributes

Attributes
32 point buy
Str 14 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 14
04 Str +1
08 Str +1
12 Int +1
16 Int +1
20 Dex +1

Build

Build

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Fighter 1
1
2
0
0
Craft (leatherworking) 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Use Rope 2cc
Combat Expertise, Education, EWP (Whip)
Bonus feat

2nd
Fighter 2
2
3
0
0
Craft (leatherworking) 5, Intimidate 5, Spellcraft 1cc, Use Rope 2.5cc
Weapon Focus (Whip)
Bonus feat

3rd
Fighter 3
3
3
1
1
Craft (leatherworking) 6, Intimidate 6, Diplomacy 2, Use Rope 3cc
Power Attack
-

4th
Fighter 4
4
4
1
1
Craft (leatherworking) 7, Intimidate 7, Diplomacy 4, Use Rope 3.5cc
Flay
Bonus feat

5th
Fighter 5
5
4
1
1
Craft (leatherworking) 8, Intimidate 8, Diplomacy 6, Use Rope 4cc
-
-

6th
Lasher 1
6
4
3
1
Craft (leatherworking) 9, Intimidate 9, Use Rope 5<ST:Whip Climber>
Intimidating Strike
whip sneak attack +1d6, close combat, wound, whip lash

7th
Lasher 2
7
4
4
1
Craft (leatherworking) 10, Intimidate 10, Diplomacy 8cc, Use Rope 6
-
improved trip, third hand

8th
Lasher 3
8
5
4
2
Intimidate 11, Diplomacy 9cc, Profession (professor) .5cc, Use Rope 8
-
crack of fate

9th
Lasher 4
9
5
5
2
Intimidate 12, Diplomacy 10cc, Profession (professor) 1cc, Use Rope 10
Lunging Strike
lashing whip

10th
Lasher 5
10
5
5
2
Intimidate 13, Diplomacy 11cc, Profession (professor) 1.5cc, Use Rope 12
-
sneak attack +2d6

11th
Lasher 6
11
6
6
3
Intimidate 14, Diplomacy 12cc, Profession (professor) 2cc, Use Rope 14
-
improved disarm

12th
Lasher 7
12
6
6
3
Intimidate 15, Diplomacy 13cc, Spellcraft 2cc, Use Rope 15
Improved Initiative
stunning snap

13th
Lasher 8
13
6
7
3
Intimidate 16, Diplomacy 14cc, Spellcraft 3cc, Use Rope 16
-
crack of doom

14th
Lasher 9
14
7
7
4
Escape Artist 2, Intimidate 15, Diplomacy 17cc, Use Rope 17
-
sneak attack +3d6

15th
Lasher 10
15
7
8
4
Escape Artist 4, Intimidate 18, Diplomacy 16cc, Use Rope 18
True Believer
Death Spiral

16th
Occult Slayer 1
16
7
8
6
Escape Artist 5, Gather Information 1, Intimidate 19cc, Diplomacy 19cc, Use Rope 19cc
-
Magical defense +1, weapon bond (whip)

17th
Occult Slayer 2
17
7
8
7
Gather Information 2, Intimidate 20cc, Diplomacy 20cc, Profession (professor) 2, Use Rope 20cc
-
Vicious strike, mind over magic 1/day

18th
Pious Templar 1
18
9
8
9
Gather Information 3cc, Intimidate 21cc, Diplomacy 21cc, Profession (professor) 5, Use Rope 21cc
Arterial Strike
Mettle

19th
Pious Templar 2
19
10
8
10
Gather Information 5cc, Intimidate 22cc, Diplomacy 22cc, Profession (professor) 6, Use Rope 22cc
-
Smite 1/day

20th
Pious Templar 3
20
10
9
10
Intimidate 23cc, Diplomacy 23cc, Profession (professor) 9, Use Rope 23cc
Weapon Specialization (whip)
Damage reduction 1/—, Weapon Specialization

Spells per Day

Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

18th
-
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Spells Known/Prepared/Memorized

Spells Known/Prepared/Memorized
A good pious templar (or a neutral pious templar of a good deity) uses the paladin spell list
1ST-LEVEL
Deafening Clang
Endure Elements

2ND-LEVEL
Flame of Faith

Breakdown

Breakdown
"Young Jones" as a fighter he learns quickly how to properly use a whip for combat
"Temple of Death" as a lasher the whip becomes second nature with the chosen feats
"Raider of the Lost Art" as an occult slayer he finds that not all foes are as solid as he would like and quickly finds his faith
"The Last Crusader" as a pious templar his journey takes him far and wide from city to countryside through a desert and even through a cave
with his socail skills and whip mastery he is fairly versitile

Optional Gear
hat
jacket
shirt
pants
boots

Whip

+1 Whip-Dagger
+3 bonus Mighty +3:
+1 bonus Keen:
+5 bonus Vorpal:
Greater Truedeath Crystal:

random supplies and food as needed

Sources

Sources
SRD
Fighter (phb p37)
Lasher (S&F p25)
Occult Slayer (cwar p66)
Pious Templar (cdiv p50)
Mighty Whip-Dagger (A&E p7, 10)

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:12 AM

Y'know what? I can't think of anything to add to that picture.

http://memestorage.com/_nw/55/46751989.jpg

"Look at this buffoon, swinging that whip around like that. He's 30 paces away from us and we have bows sighted upon him. how can he possibly hope to - OH SWEET BOCCOB WHAT?!"

The Fluff:
Burt Macklin, if that's even his real name, is a confounding individual. No one alive seems to be quite certain of who or what he is. Each new individual he meets is spun a different tale - sometimes he is a snake charmer, and sometimes he tames invisible lions. He has even convinced some that he is just an uncharacteristically short chain devil. If you've met him, he may have given you an entirely different story, but no matter what you believe, there is one thing he is beyond a fathom of a doubt... Burt Macklin is odd.

When Burt is forced into combat, he begins to dance elaborately, humming a tune gently as he warms up his nimble arms by cracking his whip around him in daunting fashion. He seems, to the un-initiated, a normal enough whip fighter, taunting his enemies with each intricate flourish of the whip. What happens next is not so normal. To the untrained eye, the whip may seem to become a slithering serpent, charmed by some cantrip to leap from Burt's hands towards an unprepared victim. Or perhaps, the barely perceptible shimmer of an invisible lion snags the whip from his hand and weilds it against Burt's foes. Still others might see Burt as a tiny devil, his chains animating to dance about him and strike down his enemies, as the hum gradually rises to loud and triumphantly bellowed song.

The truth is far more bizarre. Burt is throwing his whips. Illusion may hide it behind visions of snakes, lions or devils, but at the end of the day that freaky bugger is throwing whips at people. It is not certain if even Burt knows what he's doing or how he's doing it, but dammit if it isn't impressive!

The Crunch:

Race: Gnome
32-Point Buy:

Str: 8 (10 -2 racial) – 2 points
Dex: 16 – 10 points
Con: 16 (14 +2 racial) – 6 points
Int: 13– 5 points
Wis: 7– -1 points
Cha: 16– 10 points

Burt Macklin

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
HD
Skills
Feats
Class Features
ACFs/Notes

1st
Bard 1
+0
+0
+2
+2
d6
Balance 4 ranks, Bluff 4 ranks, Concentration 4 ranks, Craft (Leatherworking) 2 ranks, Diplomacy 1 rank, Perform (Dance) 4 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks, Use Magic Device 4 ranks, Use Rope (CC) 1.5 ranks
Apprentice (Entertainer)
Bardic Knack, Bardic Music, Counter Fear, Fascinate, Gnome Cantrips, Inspire Courage +1
Bardic Knack (PHB2 p35), Gnome Bard Substitution Level (RoS p147)

2nd
Bard 2
+1
+0
+3
+3
d6
Balance 1 rank, Bluff 1 rank, Concentration 1 rank, Diplomacy 1 rank, Perform (Dance) 1 rank, Tumble 1 rank, Use Rope (CC) 0.5 rank
-
-
-

3rd
Battle Dancer 1
+2
+0
+5
+3
d8
Balance 1 rank, Bluff (CC) 1 rank, Perform (Dance) 1 rank, Tumble 1 rank
-
AC Bonus, Unarmed Strike
-

4th
Battle Dancer 2
+3
+0
+6
+3
d8
Balance 1 rank, Bluff (CC) 1 rank, Perform (Dance) 1 rank, Tumble 1 rank
-
Dance of Reckless Bravery
Charisma +1

5th
Warblade 1
+4
+2
+6
+3
d12
Balance 1 rank, Intimidate 4 ranks
-
Battle Clarity, Weapon Aptitude
-

6th
Warblade 2
+5
+3
+6
+3
d12
Bluff (CC) 0.5 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks
Weapon Finesse
Uncanny Dodge
-

7th
Bloodstorm Blade 1
+6/+1
+5
+6
+3
d12
Bluff (CC) 0.5 ranks, Concentration 1 rank, Perform (Dance) 3 ranks
Throw Anything
Returning Attacks, Throw Anything, Weapon Aptitude
-

8th
Bloodstorm Blade 2
+7/+2
+6
+6
+3
d12
Concentration 5 ranks
-
Martial Throw, Thunderous Throw
Charisma +1

9th
Bloodstorm Blade 3
+8/+3
+6
+7
+4
d12
Concentration 1 rank, Intimidate 4 ranks
Combat Panache, Weapon Focus (Whip)
Bonus Fighter Feat
-

10th
Bloodstorm Blade 4
+9/+4
+7
+7
+4
d12
Concentration 1 rank, Intimidate 1 rank, Perform (Dance) 3 ranks
-
Lightning Ricochet
-

11th
Lasher 1
+10/+5
+7
+9
+4
d10
3 ranks*
-
Close Combat, Whip Lash, Whip Sneak Attack +1d6, Wound
-

12th
Lasher 2
+11/+6/+1
+7
+10
+4
d10
3 ranks*
Improved Trip, Precise Shot
Improved Trip, Third Hand
Charisma +1

13th
Lasher 3
+12/+7/+2
+8
+10
+5
d10
3 ranks*
-
Crack of Fate
-

14th
Lasher 4
+13/+8/+3
+8
+11
+5
d10
3 ranks*
-
Lashing Whip
-

15th
Lasher 5
+14/+9/+4
+8
+11
+5
d10
3 ranks*
Staggering Strike
Sneak Attack +2d6
-

16th
Lasher 6
+15/+10/+5
+9
+12
+6
d10
3 ranks*
Improved Disarm
Improved Disarm
Charisma +1

17th
Lasher 7
+16/+11/+6/+1
+9
+12
+6
d10
3 ranks*
-
Stunning Snap
-

18th
Lasher 8
+17/+12/+7/+2
+9
+13
+6
d10
3 ranks*
Snowflake Wardance
Crack of Doom
-

19th
Lasher 9
+18/+13/+8/+3
+10
+13
+7
d10
3 ranks*
-
Sneak Attack +3d6
-

20th
Lasher 10
+19/+14/+9/+4
+10
+14
+7
d10
3 ranks*
-
Death Spiral
Charisma +1

*Skill Ranks beyond level 10 are open since all pre-requisites have been met. They could be assigned to improve intimidate, perform, bluff, or tumble as desired.

Spells Known
0th-level: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation
1st-level: Improvisation, Silent Image

Spell-Like Abilities
1/day: speak with animals (burrowing mammal only, duration 1 minute)
1/day:dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation.
Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + stonehunter gnome's Cha modifier + spell level.

Maneuvers Known
Stance: Punishing Stance (Iron Heart)
1st-level: Moment of Perfect Mind (Diamond Mind), Steely Strike (Iron Heart)
2nd-level: Wall of Blades (Iron Heart)

Notes

Burt uses Bardic Knack to have passable experience (beginner's luck) at many skills.
Combat Panache gives Burt some tactical options for feinting in combat to render foes flat-footed and vulnerable to sneak attack/staggering strike.
Burt uses Snowflake Wardance to add his charisma modifier as a bonus to attack rolls with his whip.
From Battle Dancer, Burt receives his substantial charisma modifier as a bonus to AC while unarmored.
Crack of Doom allows Burt to make 2 extra attacks with his whip as part of a full attack.
He can choose to throw his weapon as part of a full attack and have it instantly return to him with Lightning Ricochet.
Using Martial Throw, Burt can initiate Iron Heart Maneuvers with ranged attacks.

Rules Oddities

Trip attempts and Disarm attempts require making melee attacks. Bloodstorm Blade's Thunderous Throw ability allows you to treat your attacks with a ranged weapon as melee attacks for your turn, allowing Burt to trip or disarm foes by throwing his whip at them.

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:14 AM

Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire!

Jaya "Salamander" Flametongue, CN XephXPH Fighter 4/WarbladeToB 1/PyrokineticistXPH 4/LasherS&F 10/SwordsageToB 1

http://i62.tinypic.com/16k2eth.jpg

They say, that in these troubled times, the only folks who don't carry a weapon are fools - or them as don't need one. They say, that there's a woman out there who has tamed fire, who can make it dance to her every whim. They say that she has a living snake of fire, that'll bite your hand and steal your sword away, or bite your heel and make you fall to the ground. They say she can make fire solid, make it grasp and catch. They say she's tamed fire elementals, and keeps them as pets. They call her the Salamander.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Fighter 1
+1
+2
+0
+0
Concentration 2, Intimidate 4, Use Rope 2
Point Blank Shot, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip) [Fighter Bonus]

2nd
Fighter 2
+2
+3
+0
+0
Concentration 2.5, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Psionics) 1, Use Rope 2
Weapon Focus (Whip) [Fighter Bonus]

3rd
Fighter 3
+3
+3
+1
+1
Concentration 3, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 1, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Psionics) 1, Use Rope 2
Precise Shot

4th
Fighter 4
+4
+4
+1
+1
Concentration 3, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2
Power Attack [Fighter Bonus]

5th
WarbladeToB 1
+5
+6
+1
+1
Concentration 8, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2

Battle Clarity (Reflex Saves), Weapon Aptitude

6th
PyrokineticistXPH 1
+5
+8
+3
+1
Concentration 9, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2
Rapid Shot
Fire Lash

7th
LasherS&F 1
+6/+1
+8
+5
+1
Balance 1, Concentration 10, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2

Whip Sneak Attack +1d6, Close Combat, Wound, Whip Lash

8th
Lasher 2
+7/+2
+8
+6
+1
Balance 2, Concentration 11, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 3
Improved Trip [Lasher Bonus]
Third Hand

9th
Lasher 3
+8/+3
+9
+6
+2
Balance 3, Concentration 12, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2
Dead EyeDC
Crack of Fate

10th
Lasher 4
+9/+4
+9
+7
+2
Balance 4, Concentration 13, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2

Lashing Whip

11th
Lasher 5
+10/+5
+9
+7
+2
Balance 5, Concentration 14, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2

Whip Sneak Attack +2d6

12th
Lasher 6
+11/+6/+1
+10
+8
+3
Balance 5, Concentration 15, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 7, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2
Improved Precise Shot, Improved Disarm [Lasher Bonus]

13th
Lasher 7
+12/+7/+2
+10
+8
+3
Balance 5, Concentration 16, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 8, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2

Stunning Snap

14th
Lasher 8
+13/+8/+3
+10
+9
+3
Balance 5, Concentration 17, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 9, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2

Crack of Doom

15th
Lasher 9
+14/+9/+4
+11
+9
+4
Balance 5, Concentration 18, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 10, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2
Curling Wave StrikeStorm
Whip Sneak Attack +3d6

16th
Lasher 10
+15/+10/+5
+11
+10
+4
Balance 5, Concentration 19, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 11, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2

Death Spiral

17th
SwordsageToB 1
+16/+11/+6/+1
+11
+12
+6
Balance 5, Concentration 20, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 17, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2
Weapon Focus [Swordsage Bonus]
Quick to Act +1

18th
Pyrokineticist 2
+17/+12/+7/+2
+12
+13
+6
Balance 5, Concentration 21, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 19, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2
Xeph CelerityCPsi
Fire Adaptation, Hand Afire

19th
Pyrokineticist 3
+18/+13/+8/+3
+12
+13
+7
Balance 5, Concentration 22, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 21, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2

Bolt of Fire

20th
Pyrokineticist 4
+19/+14/+9/+4
+13
+14
+7
Balance 5, Concentration 23, Craft (Alchemy) 1, Craft (Leatherworking) 2, Intimidate 23, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Rope 2

Weapon Afire

Starting Stats:
STR: 15-2=13
DEX: 17+2=19
CON: 12
INT: 13
WIS: 8
CHA: 10

All level based stat bumps into Dex.
HP at level 20: 130 (average)

Moment of Perfect Mind
Action Before Thought
Wall of Blades
Stonefoot Stance

Distracting Ember
Fire Riposte
Counter Charge
Feigned Opening
Mirrored Pursuit
Shadow Stride
Assassin's Stance

Unfortunately, up to level 5, Jaya isn't really very good. She's an indecisive Fighter that can't decide between using a whip or being a ranged character. It's a weakness, I know, and I didn't like doing it, but I wouldn't really recommend this character for play below level 6.

At level 6, though, it all comes together. The key is in the Pyrokineticist's Fire Lash ability. Fire Lash forms a 15 foot long whip of fire, making it eligible as a weapon to use with Lasher. Crucially, though, it's explicitly a ranged touch attack - and is also explicitly eligible for use with any feat you can use with a whip. This opens up some highly unique options - mostly, the ability to use both ranged and melee feats with the same weapon.

So we have a whip of fire. That uses Dex to attack with. And does touch attacks. And we can Power Attack with it. And because it's ranged, we can use Rapid Shot for more attacks, and Dead Eye from Dragon Compendium to get Dex to damage as long as we're within 30 feet. It's a whip, we're always going to be within 30 feet. Then you add in all the goodies from Lasher - two extra attacks, free Improved Trip and Improved Disarm, the ability to stun... it gets quite nasty.

Warblade is in there mostly for Weapon Aptitude, to change our Weapon Focus (Whip) to Weapon Focus (Fire Lash). Moment of Perfect Mind is also really nice, to make up for the abysmal Will save. Stonefoot Stance synergises very nicely with the Disarm and Trip options we get a bit later.

Crashing Wave Throw is fun - whenever you trip someone, you can forgo your normal follow-up attack in order to make another trip attempt against someone else. With 15 foot of range to trip with - 20 or 25 (depending on how it's rounded) if you're wearing the Horizon GogglesCM, a high priority piece of kit - most of the battlefield is within your range, so finding someone else to trip won't be hard.

I tried to find a way to threaten with the whip, and again, the ranged nature really helps. If Dragon Magazine is allowed, then Dragon #350 has the Ranged Threat feat - when armed with a ranged weapon, you threaten squares within 15'. It does have Combat Reflexes as a prereq, so it would be tricky to fit in, but worth it.

After Lasher, the build is mostly complete - it does everything it wants to do already, anything else is just gravy. I'd say the sweet spot is probably at about level 14, just after you've got Crack of Doom. I did consider giving her the Half Fire Elemental template for more Dex and to reinforce the fire theme, but in the end I decided levels were more useful.

Swordsage grants a bit more utility, and the ability to react to a changing battlefield more usefully. For once the ranged nature of the Fire Lash hurts, as maneuvers that work with ranged attacks are few and far between, but I think I chose some useful ones. Notably, Fire Riposte works beautifully well with Hands Afire, which you get at Pyrokineticist 2. And at 20th, Weapon Afire makes the Fire Lash that little bit more damaging.

At level 20, assuming gloves of Dex +6 and a +4 book, Jaya's full attack routine is:
+26/+26/+26/+26/+21/+16/+11, each dealing 1d8+2d6+15 fire damage, plus 3d6 sneak attack (5d6 if in Assassin's Stance), all of them against touch AC, all of them ignoring anything less than full cover or concealment, and all of them being able to Power Attack - which, being against touch AC, she does a lot. I see no good reason why you can't wield the Fire Lash two-handed for double return on PA, either. Also, any of them can be used to trip or disarm, and if she trips someone, she gets either a follow-up attack, or a trip against someone else. Oh, and thanks to Xeph Celerity, three times a day she can use her racial Xeph Burst ability to make yet another attack at her highest bonus.

The Horizon GogglesCM increase the range of ranged attacks - hello Fire Lash! - by 50%. This extends your whipping range to either 20 or 25 feet, depending on whether it rounds up or down.

The Gauntlets of Energy TransformationMIC let you change the energy type of your weapon for up to three rounds per day - vital if fighting enemies immune to fire.

And obviously, Jaya wants to pump her Dex up as high as she possibly can, as it gives her more damage both directly, thanks to Dead Eye, and indirectly because Power Attack.

CM: Complete Mage
CPsi: Complete Psionics
DC: Dragon Magazine Compendium
MIC: Magic Item Compendium
S&F: Sword and Fist
Storm: Stormwrack
ToB: Tome of Battle
XPH: Expanded Psionics Handbook

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:17 AM

Scorpions. Why did it have to be scorpions?

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121225155400/avatar/images/archive/7/70/20140407160958!Sandbender.png
Ancient worlds and treasures have always tempted the hearts of men
Long, slow, and heavily do the pharaohs of old sleep
Safe within their pyramids, all but forgotten
In do those greedy-hearted fortune seekers creep
Thoughts of their own safety far from their minds
One of the number lurks within
The tortuous corridors full of twists and winds
Bearing guardians to steal the tomb-robbers’ skin
Serket lurks within, protecting the treasures she once sought
Dead-breathed corridors and inconstant dunes are her domain
Following would-be thieves with the speed of thought
None shall purloin the pyramids’ treasures again
When upon the shifting sands they slip
Then they shall feel the lash of her whip

str 10 dex 16 con 14 int 14 (languages: common, infernal, abyssal) wis 10 cha 14 (increases to dex)

LE Human
ranger 1/paladin of tyranny 3/ranger2/scorpion heritor 3/master of masks 1/ lasher10/ scorpion heritor 4

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Ranger 1
+1
+2
+2
+0
craft (leather working) 2, hide 4, jump 4, know (arcana) 1, know (nature) 4, listen 2, ms 4, spot 4, survival 4, tumble 4, use rope 2,
combat reflexes, weapon finesse
Favored enemy (arcanists), track, wild empathy, skilled city dweller

2nd
Paladin of Tyranny 1
+2
+4
+2
+0
diplo 5

aura of evil, detect good, smite good 1/day

3rd
Paladin of Tyranny 2
+3
+5
+2
+0
sm 5
scorpion’s resolve
divine grace, deadly touch

4th
Paladin of Tyranny 3
+4
+5
+2
+1
diplo 3 (7), sm 2 (7)

aura of despair, divine health

5th
Ranger 2
+5
+6
+3
+1
hide 4 (8), ms 3 (8)

combat style (TWF)

6th
Scorpion Heritor 1
+5
+8
+3
+1
bluff 3, disguise 8
supernatural instincts
scorpion’s instincts

7th
Scorpion Heritor 2
+6/+1
+9
+3
+1
bluff 5 (8), perform (acting) 3

sneak attack +1d6

8th
Scorpion Heritor 3
+7/+2
+9
+4
+2
jump 1 (5), perform (acting) 5 (8), speak language (terran)

scorpion form

9th
Master of Masks 1
+7/+2
+9
+6
+4
forgery 7
weapon focus (scorpion tail whip)
persona masks (gladiator and assassin)

10th
Lasher 1
+8/+3
+9
+8
+4
balance 5

whip sneak attack +1d6, close combat, wound, whip lash

11th
Lasher 2
+9/+4
+9
+9
+4
intimidate 5

imp trip, third hand

12th
Lasher 3
+10/+5
+10
+9
+5
EA 5
murderous intent
crack of fate

13th
Lasher 4
+11/+6/+1
+10
+10
+5
spot 5 (9)

lashing whip

14th
Lasher 5
+12/+7/+2
+10
+10
+5
spot 5 (14)

whip sneak attack +2d6

15th
Lasher 6
+13/+8/+3
+11
+11
+6
balance 1 (6), spot 4 (18)
scorpion’s sense
imp disarm

16th
Lasher 7
+14/+9/+4
+11
+11
+6
balance 4 (10), spot 1 (19)

stunning snap

17th
Lasher 8
+15/+10/+5
+11
+12
+6
balance 4 (14), spot 1 (20)

crack of doom

18th
Lasher 9
+16/+11/+6/+1
+12
+12
+7
balance 4 (18), spot 1 (21)
robilar’s gambit
sneak attack +3d6

19th
Lasher 10
+17/+12/+7/+2
+12
+13
+7
balance 4 (22), spot 1 (22)

death spiral

20th
Scorpion Heritor 4
+18/+13/+8/+3
+13
+13
+7
balance 1 (23), EA 3 (8), spot 1 (23)

sneak attack +2d6

Take advantage of your combat reflexes at this point by investing in a reach weapon. Divine grace alongside scorpion’s resolve really helps beef up your will saves.

pick on spellcasters with favored enemy (arcanists) and enjoy the use of tumble to get around tight spots. TWF, wait for enemies to provoke AoOs and strike them. aura of despair helps put the kibosh on their saves, softening them up for stuff by debuffing all saves by -2 without a way to resist.

http://oi60.tinypic.com/160z8xt.jpg

yep, scorpion heritor’s here to give a little pizzazz. It provides tons of skills, advances your sneak attack, and gives you the very fun scorpion form ability to let you turn into a tiny monstrous scorpion 1/day (as polymorph) for up to 1 minute. very handy infiltrating and getting out of tight spots.

scorpion’s instincts help you sniff out sneaks, so you don’t just hide, you can pick up other roguish types as well.

master of masks shows up and its gladiator masks gives proficiency with all martials and all exotics. if you ever see a weapon, you’ll be able to use it. pally and ranger give all simple and martial and now you’ve got all exotics too. if you see a scythe, a pincer staff, or a kaorti ribbon dagger lying around, it’s all fair game. consider investing in a morphing weapon and you’ll have anything you need.

this is how you get your proficiency with the scorpion tail whip which allows you to deliver venom to the target on a successful crit

supernatural instincts lets you beat up guys using su abilities in your threat range and you’re in lasher now, which helps you out with threatening.

murderous intent’s online. you can now pick on arcanists and, if they fail a will save and you hit them with some damage (at least 1 point) they can only do a move or a standard until their next turn.

this is pretty neat on its own, but the real meat is the passive effect: you now automatically confirm any critical threats made against a favored enemy.

take advantage of this by enjoying weapon enhancements that activate on a critical hit. (the secret ingredient is weapon-based, after all, and encourages TWFing) a personal favorite of mine for this purpose is “maiming”, which allows you to roll 1d4 on a x2 crit weapon, 1d6 for x3s, and 1d8 for x4s. since you can use any weapon, you ought to get your money’s worth from this, like when you’re in too close quarters to whip people. when you’re able to use your whips, this’ll allow you to poison much more often.

scorpion’s sense is up, so enemies won’t be getting the drop on you

you’ve finished with lasher and have robilar’s gambit up to help you get more chances to AoO your foes. make judicious use of your stunning snap ability and target your enemies with your sneak attack, supplemented with scorpion heritor. crack of doom means more attacks on top of TWFing, upping your chances for crits and whatever crit weapon enhancements you like. save your death spiral for something good and enjoy sneak attacking to clean up afterwards.

SRD: ranger, combat reflexes, weapon finesse, paladin of tyranny
cityscape web enhancement: skilled city dweller
FC2: supernatural instincts
sandstorm: scorpion heritor, scorpion’s resolve, scorpion tail whip, scorpion’s sense
complete scoundrel: master of masks
elder evils: murderous intent
PHB2: robilar’s gambit
cmage: arcane hunter

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:18 AM

The pun. It wounds my soul.

Casen Murchadh, The Mind Flayer
Kalashtar Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior 7/Lasher 10/Exotic Weapon Master 3

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/133/1/d/Whip_it_good_by_ReillyBrown.jpg

LevelClassHDBABFortRefWillPPPowers LearnedMax Power Level KnownMLSpecialFeatsTotal Skill PointsSTRDEXCONINTWISCHA
1Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior 11d802001call weaponry1st1-Weapon Focus (Whip), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip), Combat Expertise24141812141310
2Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior 22d813113prevenom weapon1st2Soulbound Weapon (Whip Dagger)-30141812141310
3Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior 33d823115synesthete1st3-Weapon Finesse36141812141310
4Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior 44d834118hustle2nd4Soulbound Weapon (+1)-42141912141310
5Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior 55d8342210prowess2nd5-Combat Reflexes48141912141310
6Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior 66d8452215strength of my enemy2nd6-Two-Weapon Fighting54141812141310
7Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior 77d8552219ectoplasmic form3rd7--60141912141310
8Lasher 17d8+1d10654220-3rd7Whip Sneak Attack +1d6, Close Combat, Wound, Whip Lash, Soulbound Weapon (+2)-64142012141310
9Lasher 27d8+2d10755221-3rd9Improved Trip, Third HandPracticed Manifester (Psychic Warrior)68142012141310
10Exotic Weapon Master 17d8+3d10875522-3rd10Exotic Weapon Stunt (Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting)-72142012141310
11Exotic Weapon Master 27d8+4d10985523-3rd11Exotic Weapon Stunt (Exotic Reach)-76142012141310
12Exotic Weapon Master 37d8+5d101086624-3rd11Exotic Weapon Stunt (Trip Attack), Soulbound Weapon (+3)Vae School80142112141310
13Lasher 37d8+6d101196325-3rd11Crack of Fate-84142112141310
14Lasher 47d8+7d101297326-3rd11Lashing Whip-88142112141310
15Lasher 57d8+8d101397327-3rd11Whip Sneak Attack +2d6Hamstring92142112141310
16Lasher 67d8+9d1014108428-3rd11Improved Disarm, Soulbound Weapon (+4)-96142212141310
17Lasher 77d8+10d1015108429-3rd11Stunning Snap-100142212141310
18Lasher 87d8+11d1016109430-3rd11Crack of DoomSpeed of Thought104142212141310
19Lasher 97d8+12d1017119531-3rd11Whip Sneak Attack +3d6-108142212141310
20Lasher 107d8+13d10181110532-3rd11Death Spiral, Soulbound Weapon (+5)-112142312141310

6th level: Casen has the ability to call to mind a magical whip dagger through the power of his mind. He wields it in hand with a purchased, nearly identical whip dagger. Casen also knows a few psionic powers, but uses them only infrequently or in dangerous situations. While he is a gentleman adventurer, he doesn't have much of a reputation at this point.

11th level: Casen has learned how to wield his whip daggers to staggering effect: he may attempt trip attacks while using his whip daggers, and the two-weapon fighting penalties for using both are decreased. He has the ability at this point to apply two enhancements to his whip dagger when he calls it to being, can utilize either of his whip daggers as precision instruments at range (thanks to Third Hand, and may even attack adjacent opponents with the whip at no penalty. He threatens the entire 15' area around him and as such can make devastating use of his Combat Reflexes ability in conjunction with Improved Trip. When given the opportunity, he uses this in conjunction with strength of my enemy to sap his opponent's strength and add it to his own. A full-attack action from Casen looks like +16 main hand/+11 main hand/+16 off hand.

16th level: Casen's called whip dagger is now a +4 weapon, and he can attempt to disarm opponents with either of his whip daggers. In addition, he makes more attacks per turn with his whip daggers. Training with the drow has taught him how to take advantage of opponents who are ill-prepared (from both the Vae School and Hamstring feats), though he doesn't rely on such tactics. He frequently attempts to disarm and trip opponents in the same attack, leaving them helpless for his associates to make easy work of. A full-attack action from Casen looks like +22 main hand/+22 main hand/+17 main hand/+12 main hand/+22 off hand.

20th level: Casen has the ability to stun single opponents or a whole group of opponents with his whip daggers, and he generally attempts to do this instead of disarming opponents when possible. His called whip dagger is now a +5 weapon, and he is capable of making many attacks in a single round: a full-attack action from Casen looks like +25 main hand/+25 main hand/+25 main hand/+20 main hand/+15 main hand/+10 main hand/+25 off hand. If he trips an opponent, he can immediately make a follow-up attack at the same attack bonus, so he makes frequent use of this ability.

Equipment: Casen is presented here without any equipment. The most beneficial items to him would be those that raise his manifester level and daily power points or grant a Wisdom or Dexterity bonus. In addition, gloves of the balanced hand and counterstrike bracers fit in very well with Casen's abilities.

Skills: Aside from prerequisites (which Casen can meet regardless of class or cross-class skills for all requirements), Casen's skill points are practically however he chooses to place them. Tumble, stealth skills, and perception skills probably serve him best.

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:20 AM

Crawling in my skin...

Krad, the Mad Strangler
CE Daelkyr Half-blood
1 barbarian/4 fighter/10 lasher/5 soul eater
“The pleads of your enemies, the twisting of bone, the last breath, is there a sweeter music?”

Ability scores(1): Str 16, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 8
Ability scores(20): Str 21(+4), Dex 11(-1), Con 16(+4), Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 8

There was a time when the Mad Strangler was a mortal man. It was long ago, deep in the Drow-run mines that his dreadful story began, as a fierce slavedriver by the name of Krad. It was said that he was one of the cruelest, most efficient slavers to ever walk this land. Every complaint or unsatisfied grunt was responded with a brutal lashing. Not one slave escaped under his command, though many perished.

One day, the miners stumbled upon an forgotten Daelkyr laboratory, lost long ago to the Underdark. Krad pushed his way inside, eager to reap the rewards for himself. Inside he found nothing but broken glass and the drained corpses of long-dead experiments. Disappointed, he turned to leave, but was stopped by the feeling of something coiling around his arm. Krad pulled it off, surprised to see a snake-like symbiont, starving and long separated from its host. Already having a crawling gauntlet affixed to his hand, Krad was no stranger to the creatures, and immediately offered his available arm to the creature. It took root immediately, burrowing it’s way into his arm, and searing his mind with burning agony. After a few minutes, Krad left the ruins, shaken and anxious about the beast that was now worming through his flesh.

Over the next few weeks, the symbiont settled into its new home, and had begun to whisper to Krad. He had named it now, calling it The Guest. It encouraged him to feed it, to satisfy it with flesh and souls of the weak, and that it would make him strong in return. Krad was a cruel man and delighted in bringing suffering to others, but knew that the slaves were valuable enough to keep alive, and so ignored the pleas of the Guest. It responded by spreading it’s tendrils all across his arm and upper torso, giving him a dark, twisted appearance. His crawling gauntlet had withered and died days ago,it’s flesh fusing to his hand, furthering his monstrous appearance.

The months went crawling by. Anyone who Krad knew had begun to shun him. Even the other slave drivers left him to his devices, preferring to speak to him through letters and notes, and taking over his duties. The Guest had resorted to screaming inside of his mind, driving him closer and closer to the edge. In his rage, Krad had begun to beat the slaves twice as furiously than he used to, if only to silence the Guest for a few days. The creature had also taken a startling turn on it’s growth, shaping its body into the form of a whip that uncoiled from his wrist. If he wasn’t obeying the whims of the parasite, Krad was practicing using it as a weapon. He found that he could control the slightest movement, able to strike instantly and with deadly accuracy.

Krad was tossing and turning during a sleepless night when he heard the alarms. It was the first rebellion since he had taken charge of the mine. Cursing, he tried to don his armour, but was cut off as roughly a dozen slaves broke into his room with pickaxes. Krad responded with a lash from his whip, almost too quick to be seen. The three men in front fell quickly, with deep poisoned wounds cut across their chests. The remaining ten or so hesitated, but continued the charge, barely pinning Krad to the ground. The Guest pulsed in Krad’s mind, demanding more death. It had unfurled itself around a nearby slaves neck, and broke him in an instant with a sickening crack. A leader of the rebellion approached Krad, walking slowly towards him as the slaves tied him down, and began to pour oil on his face. When he was satisfied he waved a torch in Krad’s face, immolating him. He strained against the bonds with an inhuman strength, breaking them and then grabbing the nearest two men, snapping their necks with no effort. The Guest fed off of their life force, feeding the leftovers back into Krad, doubling his already superhuman strength. He tore a path through the rebellion, clawing and strangling his way through until he found the leader cowering in a corner. The man, begging for his life, said that the other slave drivers had let the slaves out, if only to deal with Krad. The drivers were worried that he had lost his mind, but were too cowardly to deal with him themselves.

Falling deeper into his fury, Krad moved to the top of the mines, killing anyone unlucky enough to be in his warpath. After strangling every single officer and official to death, Krad locked the entrances and moved further down the mines, cleaning it out from top to bottom. Throughout the night The Guest grew rapidly, overtaking his body, scarring it with purple flesh and pulsing tendrils. By the time he was done, over a hundred lives had succumbed to the Mad Strangler. For the first time in months, the Guest was sated, but did not stay quiet for long.

It is said that the Mad Strangler patrols the land now, searching for any soul unlucky enough to cross his path, killing them and devouring their essence, if only to silence the screaming thing in his head.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Barbarian 1
+1
+2
+0
+0
-
EWP(Whip), symbiont mastery
Rage 1/day, fast movement

2nd
Fighter 1
+2
+4
+0
+0
-
Weapon focus(whip)
Bonus feat

3rd
Fighter 2
+3
+5
+0
+0
-
Weapon focus(claw), alertness
Bonus feat

4th
Fighter 3
+4
+5
+1
+1

-
-

5th
Fighter 4
+5
+6
+1
+1
Use Rope 2(4cc), Craft(leather) 3(2)
TWF
Bonus feat

6th
Lasher 1
+6
+6
+3
+1

Willing deformity
Whip sneak attack 1d6, close combat, wound, whip lash

7th
Lasher 2
+7
+6
+4
+1

Improved trip
Improved trip, third hand

8th
Lasher 3
+8
+7
+4
+2

Crack of fate

9th
lasher 4
+9
+7
+4
+2
Use Rope 5(7,4cc), Craft(leather) 3(2), know(arcana) 3(2)
Deformity-clawed hands
Lashing whip

10th
Soul eater 1
+10
+9
+6
+4

-
Energy drain 1

11th
Lasher 5
+11
+9
+6
+4

-
Sneak attack 2d6

12th
Lasher 6
+12
+10
+7
+5

Knockdown, improved disarm
bonus feat

13th
Lasher 7
+13
+10
+7
+5
Use Rope 10(6, 4cc), Craft(leather) 3(2), know(arcana) 3(2), Skill trick:whip climber
-
Stunning snap

14th
Lasher 8
+14
+10
+8
+5

-
Crack of doom

15th
Lasher 9
+15
+11
+8
+6

Deformity:madness
Sneak attack 3d6

16th
Lasher 10
+16
+11
+9
+6

-
Death spiral

17th
Soul eater 2
+17
+12
+10
+7
Use Rope 10(6, 4cc), Craft(leather) 3(2), know(arcana) 3(2), know(local(taer, for battle jump) 3(2cc) Skill trick:whip climber
-
Soul strength

18th
Soul eater 3
+18
+12
+10
+7

Battle jump
Soul blast

19th
Soul eater 4
+19
+13
+11
+8
-
-
Soul enhancement

20th
Soul eater 5
+20
+13
+11
+8
-
-
Soul endurance

Skills: ************************
I made the mistake of trying to go back and edit my skills in the table and ended up getting confused. Time constraints prevent me from fixing it properly. I only put skills in where they are noted as prerequisites. Below is the skills I originally had for level 20. While leveling, climb, intimidate, jump and use rope are primary skills. The whip climber skill trick is nifty, and lets us use the tentacle whip as a grappling hook for Battle Jumping onto poor fools. Knowledge arcana and local are both taken cross-class as pre-req's for soul eater and battle jump.
87 ranks total.
Use Rope 10(8+ 4cc), Craft(leather) 3(2), intimidate 18(16), jump 18(15), climb 15(12), listen 6(5), know(arcana) 3(2cc), balance 5(5), spot 10(9), know(local(taer, for battle jump) 3(2cc), 1(1cc) tumble. Skill trick:whip climber

Why daelkyr half-blood? Well the answer is fairly simple. If you haven't encountered the race before (Magic of Eberron), they get a free graft-type item called a symbiont, that can be swapped out for free every few levels. We start with the crawling gauntlet, granting a 1d4 natural claw attack, and take the tentacle whip(ECS) at level 10. Aberration type at no LA is also a massive bonus, since we don't have to jump though any hoops(well other than the major feat-tax) to get into soul eater.

1-5
Krad begins his career as a standard barbarian, taking EWP(whip). For combat he carries a whip dagger, and uses his natural claw attack for close combat. Otherwise he uses a regular whip to keep the rabble in check. For the next four levels, Krad focuses on his martial training, picking up weapon focus(whip), weapon focus(claw), and finally two-weapon fighting, even though it can’t be used effectively yet.

6-10
The new guest on Krad’s body has been whispering quietly, influencing him and encouraging him to master the whip so that it may bestow it’s gift upon him. At level 6 we take the first level in Lasher, following that until level 10, where the first level of soul eater is taken. Taking the level in soul eater delays finishing Lasher, but has an immediate effect in the form of the tentacle whip. This little beast allows any touch attacks possessed by the wielder to be channeled through the whip instead, among a long list of other goodies. For those of you unfamiliar with soul eater, it inflicts a negative level on every touch attack. This is a key part of the build, due to how badly whips suck, because you are now inflicting AC/save/attack penalties ON EVERY ATTACK. More on that in Use of Secret Ingredient and Equipment.

Two-weapon fighting is immediately useful at level 6, allowing either whip to be used at the same time as a claw attack, thanks to close combat. The Guest has also spread across Krad’s body, making him hideous to behold and granting the benefit of Willing deformity. Later, it twists his hands into cruel hooks, for willing deformity(clawed hands). The reasoning behind taking this so early is that once level 10 hits, the crawling gauntlet will be shed for the tentacle whip, and losing it would disqualify Krad from soul eater.

11-15
Krad continues his path down Lasher but The Guest has started to take a toll on his mind, driving him to further acts of cruelty and depravity. We pick up knockdown at level 12 for more sneak attack opportunities and tripping shenanigans. Madness is grabbed at level 15, for both flavor and the function of mind-immunity.
More attacks means more fun, and at this point, Krad should be knocking off about 6 negative levels per round(3 from BAB, 2 from Lasher, and one from the claw attack), quickly ending most encounters. The tentacle whip also buffs our tripping attempts by +4, giving a +13(+4 from improved trip, 4 from the whip, 3 from strength, and 2 from rage) bonus while raging.

A note on Knockdown- It needs 10 damage on a single hit to trigger. This gets difficult at this level, only averaging between 7-10 damage while not raging. Better keep some potions of Bull’s Strength on hand.

16-20
Sweet spot.
At level 16 Krad is the true master of the whip, able to strike multiple foes quickly enough to disorient them and quickly snap their necks with a tug of his whip. After that we finish off soul eater for the delicious strength and constitution bonuses. Otherwise, just keep on trucking like the last few levels. Battle jump(though it is extremely late in the build) does open up some new options for combat, for better trips or damage. The last feat could also easily be swapped out for Deformity(Eyes), power attack, or basically any other feat that strikes your fancy.
The +4 strength from soul eater helps out knockdown immensely, for both trip attempts and average damage. It should be triggering every time now at least. The constitution bonus from soul eater is also a major boon to melee types. Stacked with rage, that’s a +8 to con, more than enough to keep Krad kicking for a long time.

If you see something that is (a) DR heavy, (b) much bigger than you and, (c)immune to energy drain, Krad lacks combat options to having his three main toys taken away. Unfortunate. Carry a greatsword and act like a barbarian if this happens.

Prerequisites:
EWP(whip) and weapon focus(whip). Necessary evils, but quintessal to the build.
2 ranks Craft (leatherworking) and 2 use rope. Krad has experience building and maintaining his weapon of choice, and often ties down unruly slaves. Use rope has to be taken as a cross-class skill unfortunately.
Bab +5- Acquired from barbarian and fighter levels. Full bab all the way down!

Whip sneak attack: Hide? Nonsense! Krad strikes the neck of a flat footed target, choking them for extra damage after a lash. Helps for damage and triggering knockdown but not vital to the build.
Wound:We don’t need to worry about swapping weapons now. Doesn’t help much otherwise.
Whip lash/Close combat: Yummy. Lets us TWF without taking attacks of opportunity.

Improved trip: Bonus feats are always great, especially when we don’t have to take Combat Suckspertise.
Third hand: Neat abilities. Steal someone's weapon with disarm. Mostly fluff though.

Crack of fate: More attacks. Also always good.
Lashing whip: The +2 damage helps us more reliably trigger knockdown. Not much else to say.

Improved Disarm:Same as improved trip.

Stunning snap: A weaker stunning fist. Could be better, could be worse. Helps trigger sneak attack damage, leading to more knockdowns. A flat-footed opponent is also more likely to be hit, for more stacking negative levels.

Crack of Doom: Keeping up the mantra of “More attacks!”. The -4 penalty won’t matter as much later in a fight due to the AC loss from the negative levels.

Death Spiral: You get a stun! And you get a stun! Everyone gets a stun! Scaled off of an attack roll? Nice! At level 16 when we pick up the ability, thats a +21 before rage. At level 20 it steps up to a +27, or +29 while raging. The save against helpless is non-scaling and therefore isn’t great in itself, but hey, it’s basically a save or get-strangled.

Soul eater synergy: Because Lasher gives alot of options for tripping/disarming/forcing saves, soul eater is excellent at causing an enemy to lose at least one of these things. You may not be able to trip the ogre barbarian right off the bat, but throw some negative levels at him and you'll win soon enough.

The tentacle whip(from Eberron Campaign Setting) covers weapons beautifully, with the exception of damage reduction negation(outside of dr/magic). Here’s the full list of benefits.

One point of dex damage per day. This is the reason I went with an odd dexterity score, since it would be reduced anyway. You could have someone restore it every day, but Krad doesn’t strike me as a team player.
Understands Undercommon.
Telepathy to it’s host.
Blindsight 60ft-While this doesn’t directly benefit the host, the whip can warn you of any incoming assault or invisible creature. Nice!
Channel touch-A tentacle whip can be used to deliver a touch attack- either the natural power of the bearer or a held magical charge. This is the exact reason I decided to incorporate soul eater.
Improved attack-A tentacle whip is bound to the nervous system of its host, granting +1 to hit, and a +4 untyped bonus on trip and disarm attempts. Additionally, the wielder takes no penalties when using it as an offhand weapon. Pure awesome. The +4 to trip is the big bonus here.
Overcomes damage reduction as magic. Every bit helps. Too bad the whip can’t be enchanted or else slapping the standard transmuting/metalline on it would help leaps and bounds for damage later in the game.
Poison-Injury, dc 12, 1d4 dex. A crappy saves prevents this from helping much.

Armor: Mithril full plate. Standard fighter stuff. Enchantments could include heavy fortification or freedom. Roaring is good too, since our initiative is so low.
Other gear:
Belt of Battle: Attack forever! Always useful in melee. More attacks means more negative levels.
Necklace of Natural Attacks: For the claw attack. Transmuting and metalline to prevent it from becoming obsolete. Speed if you have lots of gold.

Any other items that boost strength and strength checks are gravy.

Don’t like barbarian? Swap it out for a level of crusader. The maneuvers will fall off quickly, but the investment will return in the form of Thicket of Blades, taken as a feat at level 18. Guy running at you? Bam, knockdown and a negative level, thank you very much.

On the subject of barbarian, lion totem is worth discussing. I didn’t really feel like pounce fit the character, and we all know how overused it is, so I deliberately avoided it. That said, it’s still an incredibly powerful ability, letting us get more negative levels on our foe faster. Ditto for Whirling Frenzy.

For a major bump in power, skip the last two levels of Lasher and put them in soul eater instead. Now each attack does 2 negatives levels a hit. Watch the DM cry as you inflict 14 negative levels a turn. Oh, and you also get shapechange if you drain a foe to 0HD.

A lenient DM could help out the feat tax on this build. Magic of Eberron has listed prices for symbionts; but isn't clear on the rules for multiple symbionts. Simply buy a crawling gauntlet at level 10 and take battle jump at level 9 in the place of clawed hands.

Magic of Eberron-daelkyr half-blood
Eberron Campaign Setting-tentacle whip
Book of Vile Darkness-Soul eater and deformity feats
Player’s Handbook-barbarian, fighter, and general feats
Sword and Fist-lasher and knockdown
Heroes of Horror-deformity feats
Unapproachable east-battle jump
Complete Scoundrel-skill trick

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:23 AM

The most dragoney not-a-dragon-at-all that ever did dragon.

Ookoobey
Venerable Dragonwrought Feral Changeling Wyrm of War / CG / Swordsage 5 / Warblade 2 / warshaper 2 / lasher 10

Abilities:

Strength Dexterity Constitution Intelligence Wisdom Charisma Reason
16 16 14 15 7 7 32-point buy
16 16 14 18 10 10 Age (Venerable)
20 14 14 14 12 10 Template
21 14 14 14 12 10 4th
22 14 14 14 12 10 8th
26 14 18 14 12 10 Warshaper
27 14 18 14 12 10 12th
28 14 18 14 12 10 16th
29 14 18 14 12 10 20th

Build:

Level Class BAB Fort Ref Will Skills Feats Features
1 Swordsage 1 0 0 2 2 Climb 2, Concentration 4, Hide 4, Jump 4, Listen 4, Move silently 4, Use Rope 2(CC), Swim 2, Tumble 4 Racial emulation, Dragonwrought, Flaw Quick to act +1, discipline focus (weapon focus)
2 Warblade 1 1 2 2 2 Concentration 5, Jump 5, Craft (leatherworking) 4 - Battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude
3 Warblade 2 2 3 2 2 Climb 4, Concentration 6, Jump 6, tumble 6 Power attack Uncanny dodge
4 Swordsage 2 3 3 3 3 Concentration 7, Hide 7, Jump 7, Move silently 6 Exotic weapon proficiency AC Bonus
5 Swordsage 3 4 4 3 3 Concentration 8, Hide 8, Jump 8, Listen 7, Move silently 8, - -
6 Warshaper 1 4 6 3 3 Concentration 9, Hide 9(CC), Jump 9 Combat reflexes Morphic immunities, morphic weapons
7 Warshaper 2 5 7 4 4 Concentration 10, Jump 10, Move silently 9(CC) - Morphic body
8 Lasher 6 7 6 4 Jump 11, Concentration (CC) 11, Use rope 3 Knockdown Whip sneak attack +1d6, close combat, wound, whip lash
9 Lasher 7 7 7 4 Jump 12, Concentration (CC) 12, Use rope 4 Multiattack Improved trip, third hand
10 Lasher 8 8 7 5 Jump 13, Concentration (CC) 13, Use rope 5 - Crack of fate
11 Lasher 9 8 8 5 Jump 14, Concentration (CC) 14, Use rope 6 - "Lashing whip
"
12 Lasher 10 8 8 5 Jump 15, Concentration (CC) 15, Use rope 7 Leap attack, Sneak attack +2d6
13 Lasher 11 9 9 6 Jump 16, Concentration (CC) 16, Use rope 8 - "Improved Disarm
"
14 Lasher 12 9 9 6 Jump 17, Concentration (CC) 17, Use rope 9 - "Stunning snap
"
15 Lasher 13 9 10 6 Jump 18, Concentration (CC) 18, Use rope 10 Rapidstrike "Crack of doom
"
16 Lasher 14 10 10 7 Jump 19, Concentration (CC) 19, Use rope 11 Martial stance (assassin's stance) Sneak attack +3d6
17 Lasher 15 10 11 7 Jump 20, Concentration (CC) 20, Use rope 12 - "Death spiral
"
18 Swordsage 4 16 10 12 8 Jump 21, Concentration 21, Move silently 15 Improved Rapid strike Discipline focus (insightful strike)
19 Swordsage 5 16 10 12 8 Jump 22, Concentration 22, Hide 15 Quick to act +2
*20 *Sworsage 6 / Warshaper 3 17 11/10 13/12 9/8 * Craven / Improved Combat reflexes - / Morphic reach

*Level 20 Included only for completeness of entry and should not be graded if LA buyoff not allowed. If LA buyoff is allowed the designer would choose swordsage. Skills for swordsage would be the same as the previous level but upping hide/move silently each 2 points while keeping jump and concentration maxed. see level 19/20 tab for details.

Warblade Maneuvers Per Day:

Level Maneuvers Known Readied Stances Known
2 3 3 1
3+ 4 3 1

Swordsage Maneuvers Per Day:

Level Maneuvers Known Readied Stances Known
1 6 4 1
4 7 4 2
5-17 8 5 2
18 9 5 2
19 10 6 3
20 11 6 3

Swordsage Manuvers Known:

Level of (m)aneuver or (s)tance Maneuvers List
1 Island of blades (s), Counter Charge, Charging minotaur, Shadow Blade technique, Mighty Throw, Burning Blade, Distracting ember, Hunters sense (s)
2 Cloak of Deception, Mountain hammer
3 Assassin's Stance (s), Dance of the Spider (s)
4
5 Shadow stride, Leaping Flame

Warblade Maneuvers Known:

Level of (m)aneuver or (s)tance Maneuvers List
1 Punishing stance (s), Sudden Leap, Saphire Nightmare Blade, Moment of perfect mind
2 Wall of Blades

Fluff and breakdown:
The Beginning
Ookoobey was a trusted member of his tribe, and had sat on the council many years. The tribe survived by laying low, avoiding the bloodthirsty beasts that refer to themselves as “Heroes” or “Adventurers”, whatever that meant. Physically different from others of his clan, his clutch mother told the story of the first dragon, whose form was ever changing and adapting. Early on Ookoobey found that he could change into anyone, like the great dragon his mother told him of, this helped immensely with directing the so called heroes away from the true home of the clan.
The clan prospered for many years, under the direction of Ookoobey and the other like minded members of the elder circle. Then they came. A small force, six in all, that was all it took. The clan had relied so long on staying hidden that they had neglected their training, their defense. In less than a minute the group had slaughtered the entire village. Ookoobey had survived only by pretending to be a helpless human woman. That night the party slept, content with their “rope trick”. They were dead before morning. Ookoobey vowed that no other kobold would have to see their entire clutch destroyed by bloodthirsty “heroes”.

Vengeance
Wandering the world, he perfected his art of killing, relying on his cunning, or brute force when all else failed. Disguising himself as the lesser races, Humans, Elves, Orcs, and even the Rilkan, he learned their best tactics and destroyed them afterwards. He learned to use his own heritage to his advantage. Lighting his blade afire(Burning Blade), and freezing the blade (Shadow Blade Technique) with his dragons breath, he waded into battle, intent on making his enemy pay (punishing stance). Leaping about the battlefield (sudden leap), he learned to anticipate the enemy movement and stop them in their tracks (Counter Charge). When reckless abandon didn’t work he calmly batted aside their puny attacks (Wall of blades), even learning to shrug off dangerous spells (Moment of perfect mind). Ookoobey owned the battlefield, pushing (Charging minotaur) or tossing (Mighty throw) them aside.

Level 5-
Ookoobey is a beast on the battlefield, focusing on charging with power attack to drop the enemy as fast as possible. He has tons of maneuvers, and 3 different stances to choose from. With warblade he can pounce in make his attacks and then sudden leap out if the creature drops, and he’ll be ready for the next round to charge in. Warblade also lets us recharge our important low level maneuvers with only a swift action, ensuring they’re always ready for use. While Swordsage gives us many situational maneuvers and leaves you with tons of options. Ookoobey is a decent sneak, with the ability to literally transform into the enemy and walk amongst them. This if used properly could end encounters almost as well as his combat prowess. Also we have picked up some utility with Animate rope, scent, and mountain hammer to literally tear through the dungeon. Its necessary to point out that even with the LA he is all but caught up at this point and was more than worth the LA even if buyoff isn’t allowed. Be sure to keep in mind that your type is dragon so many buffs and spells at this level may not have an effect, its an unspoken immunity both good and bad.

A new weapon
Ookoobey learned of a clan nearby, puny humans had plans to destroy them. Heading through the wilderness as fast as his legs would carry him. He nearly got himself killed by a Druid. Watching the druid shift forms seamlessly as they fought Ookoobey attempted to mimic (Warshaper) it and found it offered him much more than the pathetic druid. Growing a tail, horns, a bite, Ookoobey made quick work of the druid and thanked the dead body for all it had taught him. Arriving at the Kobold’s lair he found that they had been taken over by a great balor. The Balor, like others before him planned to use the kobolds as pawns for his own plans. Ookoobey could do nothing if he could not remove the evil that had befallen his brethren. Ookoobey would wait. Gathering a few like minded individuals Ookoobey watched as the “heroes” came and destroyed more of his brethren. The heroes fought valiantly but were no match for the Balor’s exceeding strength. Ookoobey watched as the Balor dispatched of the group with his giant sword and flaming whip, he marveled at the beauty of the snakelike flame whipping around and lighting the groups clothes on fire or tearing the spellbook from the wizards hands. Never before had he witnessed such beauty. The fight ended with the Balor bloody, his weapons had been torn from his hands during the fight and he was severely weakened by the heroes. Quickly before the balor had time to recover he charged in and tore the creature to pieces (pounce) in a matter of moments. He was unprepared for the explosion that rocked the cave, but managed to barely survive. Picking up the Balor’s whip he vowed to learn how to use it.

Level 10 (strong contender for sweet spot) -
Ookoobey Picked up Warshaper, this alone has turned him into a powerhouse, even with a strict DM you should be able to squeeze a bite attack and perhaps a tailslap, though really the bite is all you need to make this build work. Assuming a bite, and tail slap we have 2 whip attacks, 2 claws, 2 rake, and a tailslap, for a more lenient DM you could have upwards of 17 attacks at this level all with decent to hit and you still have several maneuvers to blow through, you can grab, trip or throw with any of your hits as well. Combat reflexes and counter charge prevent anyone from getting too near you. If your DM rules that you’re wielding your Large mouthpick whip in two hands, since RAW you can wield a greatsword, don’t forget the power increases from your strength and later leap attack. LA is gone if buyoff is allowed, if not you’ve actually still got a leg up on the competition. Even gishes are considering the barb dip for pounce, or the Clr dip for travel devotion at this point if they haven’t got another means to get it, and you still gained a lot more from your LA.

Perfecting a style
Ookoobey quickly found that though the whip had its advantages it interfered with his normal attack routine. By clutching it in his teeth (+1 large mouthpick whip) he found that he could still use his claws to full effect (multiattack) while gaining the benefits of the weapon. By grabbing foes (improved grab), or tripping them (Improved trip/knockdown), he found it much easier to control the fights and even learned special techniques with the whip (SI abilities). Leaping about the battlefield (leap attack) he found that he could use the whip as leverage when attacking and rip his legs into them (Rake/Rend), and even managed to slip in more attacks (rapidstrike).

level 15 (the sweet spot!) -
Wow Stunning snap, and leap attack were picked up in this bracket. Leap attack increases power attack bonus by 100% and if 2H it instead triples dmg. You can literally Pounce from enemy to enemy using your maneuvers. With this ability you may want to save your whip attacks to last so that you can decimate with your natural attacks, fight through the bloody mist that was your target and then hit others with the increased range from your whip, also, you can perform a swift action in the middle of your attack routine so you can use leap attack to get closer if necessary. Stunning snap is likely the best ability in the SI. At this level before Items are taken into account we have a DC 26, even the itemless average barbarian will fail 50% of the time while raged, and we grab 3 more to the DC over the next 2 levels. We now have Fast healing 5, Rend for double str dmg (should be x3 using leap attack) 120ft darkvision We also nabbed Rapidstrike in prep for our last feat without LA buyoff. Speaking of which you finally exhausted everything that was given to you by your LA, and I still say its more than worth it.

A new Legend
Ookoobey iss a Legend amongst the kobolds. He has thwarted several attacks from would be “heroes” and has begun patrolling the secret tunnels connecting the many Kobold strongholds. Whenever he faces an opponent, Ookoobey has made it his goal to implement their attacks into his own repertoire. With the whip in his mouth, slashing about the battlefield he has found it was much easier to bring his claws to bear (Improved Rapidstrike). As his experience increased he learned to place his attacks where they were most effective (assassin’s stance).

Level 19/20 -
Ookoobey, like many mundane’s is outshined by caster’s, to remain relevant Ookoobey has picked up utility in these last few levels. His stances and maneuvers are specifically chosen for their spell-like effects, granting him at will, spiderclimb, Limited greater invisibility, Ddoor, and even an ability to close the gap on casters and archers. While improved rapid strike and craven keep our damage well into the 2000’s without any items. If LA buyoff is available, at this level Ookoobey has a decision to make. He can grab another level of swordsage, or warshaper. For another utility stance grab Swordsage, I like the maneuvers shadow blink and leaping flame. You’ll have to swap out shadow stride to get both. Alternatively you could grab Warshaper 3 for morphic reach but at this point you should have an easy time of grabbing flank and is less necessary IMHO, plus you still have tons of maneuvers that cause the enemy to be flat-footed.

Sources:
RoD, ToB, DC, SS, CW, SaF, ECS, RoE, DoE, MM, PHB, CA, Dr, *CoR/ELH

Notes:

Utilizing the SI:
Requirements:
BAB- Max Iteratives, and then I added Imp rapidstrike, and a plethora of natural attacks.
Skills- Using draconic rite of passage we nab the spell animate rope.
Feats- Nothing is added to these feats, though you could swap them out in a pinch with aptitude.
special- Mouthpick whip, who else has one?

Whip sneak attack: Various martial maneuvers to make them Flatfooted, ensure this is utilized fully, with LA buyoff we also nab craven for an extra 500+ dmg.
Close combat-Nothing could be expanded here.
Wound- normal whip to gain the full benefits of this ability, otherwise it would be a waste. He does this mostly for disarm purposes so that he can grab whatever he wishes without worrying about breaking it. It also affords him the ability to trip multiple opponents during the round, while he focuses his other attacks where needed.
Whip lash- with the improved grab ability I can always drag them using the whip and keep them inside my full threatened area.
Improved trip/improved disarm- both of these abilities are keyed off strength, we’re also picking up knockdown, which means every single attack that hits triggers a trip attempt, followed by a free attack.
Third hand- What we’re looking at here is a deadly combo for cliff fighting using the 4th option. utilizing Dance of the spider stance you leap over the edge and grab an enemy to stop your fall, then using your immense strength grab the enemy and pull him over. Your safe and he takes fall damage. The hardest DC is an auto success at level 13 while naked, adjust according to gear worn.
Crack of fate/doom- the level before this you nabbed multiattack, meaning that Ookoobey makes optimal use of his attacks.
Lashing whip- doesn’t scale and other than trying to wield 3 whips not much can be gained here and even then the added damage would only be 4.
Stunning snap-This is arguably the best ability in the class, one which Ookoobey excels in using due to the high strength he has naturally. Combining this with any of the maneuvers can garner quite a bit of damage for the one attack. As well as lowering their chance at succeeding on the save
Death spiral- Not amazing but you do you have nice ways to close the gap with enemies via charge & sudden leap. All of which can put you right in the thick of the battle with a swift action, use the ability and walk out or stay to kill.

Playing Ookoobey -
First and foremost, whether true or false Ookoobey believes himself truly descended from an ancient dragon, and a true kobold. Unlike your typical Kobold, Ookoobey is good. Kobold's in his world are constantly being forced by greater evils into being pawns, while the good guys hunt them for sport. Because of this many Kobold bands have joined the evil forces hoping to stave off destruction from at least one source. This creates quite the conundrum for LG Paladins, as they could not righteously face him once detecting his alignment. Ookoobey adopted the Chaotic alignment by being willing to ally himself with good and evil forces on a whim all the while furthering his own goals.
Ookoobey valiantly charges into battle, decimates the enemies all around him. Leap attack+power attack+Pounce+21 or more natural attacks all of which trigger a trip attempt at 10+ dmg and all tripped trigger an additional attack - conservative estimates put damage well into the 2000 mark before extra attacks from trip are factored in. When he finds himself alone, with nothing left standing near him but still having attacks left he leaps (swift action-sudden leap+Power attack+Leap attack) into the fray again hitting everyone he could reach with his whip and remaining attacks and hitting them again if the trip is successful. Everyone who then gets up triggers an attack of opportunity. I suggest using the whip last since it has increased range. If things get dicey Ookoobey can, without items and in an AMF, teleport, Greater invisibility, and walk on walls/ceilings. He can also instantly teleport to an enemy that hits him with a ranged attack, including rays. He also has near max ranks in hide and move silently, possesses Darkvision 120ft, and can walk on ceilings to scout ahead. Can utilize his whip to set off traps, and grab items/levers at a distance. With his immense strength and mountain hammer, he can open locked doors and chests. He easily fills the skill-monkey role, though unconventionally. Unlike most skill-monkey's he is not too afraid of getting hit, he has a get out of jail free card with cloak of deception and fast healing.

Ookoobey at *19th level can have: (parenthesis for an example creature with weapon adjusted to medium size)

Large +1 Mouthpick whip x 6 +1 with haste 1d4+3d6(SA)+18 w/PA +32 w/PALA 96 (wielded two handed/one mouthed) = 871.5
clawx6 (feral) 2d6+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 = 510
slam (warforged) 1d8+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 = 75.5
tail slap (crocodile) 1d12+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 = 77.5
wing attackx2 (draconic graft) 1d4+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 = 147
gore (minotaur) 1d6+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 = 74.5
spiked body (porcupine) 1d6+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 = 74.5
Rakex2 (feral) 1d8+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 =75.5
Tentaclex4 (mindflayer) 1d4+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 = 294
Spines (skarn) 1d6+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 = 74.5
Sting (monstrous scorpion) 1d4+7 w/PA +32 w/PALA 64 = 73.5

**Rend (feral) 2d8+30 w/PA +32 w/PALA +64 (OR +64 +96) = 103 or 135
PA=power attack
PALA=Power attack+Leap attack

Total dmg = **2348

For reference: A great wyrm prismatic dragon has 2613 hp and a touch AC of 29. Grabbing a ghost shroud for 5k makes the touch AC doable. Most attacks hit on a 4+ with only your last whip and claw unable to hit on anything but a 20. An amulet of natural attacks can adjust that and would affect your damage as well. We still would need to bypass DR, but that would take epic shenanigans and far more than I want to dive into right now. Even with the DR individual hits are bypassing it rather effectively and only lowers damage done by 540. If he survives till round 2 he can solo the dragon.

*Only including +5 tome, +6 enhancement, +1 whip. And not including extra attacks from trips, nor extra damage from craven or stances/maneuvers.
**could not find a definitive answer on Rend+power attack+leap attack interaction so left it out of the final calculation

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:25 AM

Come one, come all, to the greatest circus on Oerth! Strongmen! Acrobats! Lions- wait. Where did the lions go?

Leopold the Liberator

Chuckles: He came out of nowhere and he was huge.

Fizbo: I wouldn't have been so bad if we weren't just getting out of the car.

Chuckles: He just appeared, started swinging around his whip until we couldn't see it, then all twelve of us dropped our pies and seltzer and we couldn't move for about half a minute.

Fizbo: Grabo even lost his nose. Next thing we know the guy is accosting Tamer with the help of a lion, but I don't think it was one of ours. I noticed that he had a little shield attached to his arm that had what looked like a chair painted on it.

Chuckles: Once Tamer was down, he opened the lion and tiger cages and seemed to talk to them before he started out of the tent.

Fizbo: On his way out, he glanced around, noticed the pachyderms, and as what seemed to be an afterthought, untethered them using his whip.

Chuckles: It was over so quick. Tamer is ok. It looks like the cat man was just trying to subdue him rather than truly hurt him.

Ringleader: It's alright boys. I've heard about this guy. He's going around to all the bigtops. We are all losing a bundle, except that fool Bailey who only does trapeze and rope acts.

Neutral Catfolk Duskblade 5 / Lasher 10 / Unseen Seer 4

Starting Abilities: STR 18, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 8
All lvl increases to STR
Catfolk Adjustment: DEX +4, CHA +2
Final Abilities: STR 22, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 10

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Catfolk
+0
+0
+0
+0

Low-light vision, +2 Listen & Move Silent, +1 Natural armor

2nd
Duskblade 1
+1
+2
+0
+2
Spellcraft(4)4, Sense Motive(4)4, Craft(leatherworking)(2)2, Use Rope(4)2, Hide(2)1
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip
Arcane attunement, Armored mage (light)

3rd
Duskblade 2
+2
+3
+0
+3
Spellcraft(1)5, Hide(1)1.5, Concentration(2)2
Combat Casting(B)

4th
Duskblade 3
+3
+3
+1
+3
Spellcraft(1)6, Hide(1)2, Concentration(2)4
Weapon focus: Whip
Arcane Channeling

5th
Duskblade 4
+4
+4
+1
+4
Spellcraft(1)7, Hide(1)2.5, Concentration(2)6

Armored mage (medium)

6th
Duskblade 5
+5
+4
+1
+4
Spellcraft(1)8, Hide(1)3, Concentration(2)8

Quick Casting 1/day

7th
Lasher 1
+6
+4
+3
+4
Hide(3)4.5, Spot(1)1
Practiced Spellcaster: Duskblade
Whip Sneak Attack +1d6, Close Combat, Wound, Whip lash

8th
Lasher 2
+7
+4
+4
+4
Hide(1)5, Search(2)1, Spot(1)2
Improved Trip(B)
Third Hand

9th
Lasher 3
+8
+5
+4
+5
Hide(1)5.5, Search(2)2, Spot(1)3

Crack of Fate

10th
Lasher 4
+9
+5
+4
+5
Hide(1)6, Search(2)3, Spot(1)4
Extra Spell: Enlarge
Lashing Whip

11th
Lasher 5
+10
+6
+5
+6
Hide(1)6.5, Search(2)4, Spot(1)5

Whip Sneak Attack +2d6

12th
Lasher 6
+11
+6
+5
+6
Hide(1)7, Search(2)5, Spot(1)6
Improved Disarm(B)

13th
Lasher 7
+12
+6
+6
+6
Hide(1)7.5, Search(2)6, Spot(1)7
Obtain Familiar
Stunning snap

14th
Lasher 8
+13
+6
+7
+6
Hide(1)8, Search(2)7, Spot(1)8

Crack of Doom

15th
Lasher 9
+14
+7
+7
+7
Hide(1)8.5, Search(2)8, Use Rope(1)3

Whip Sneak Attack +3d6

16th
Lasher 10
+15
+7
+8
+7
Hide(1)9, Use Rope(3)6
Improved Familiar
Death spiral

17th
Unseen Seer 1
+15
+7
+8
+9
Hide(2)11, Concentration(2)10, Spellcraft(2)10, Use Rope(2)8

Whip Sneak Attack +4d6

18th
Unseen Seer 2
+16
+7
+8
+10
Hide(3)14, Spellcraft(3)13, Use Rope(2)10

Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye, Silent Spell

19th
Unseen Seer 3
+17
+8
+9
+10
Hide(4)18, Spellcraft(4)17
Martial Study: Shadow Stride
Divination Spell Power +1

20th
Unseen Seer 4
+18
+8
+9
+11
Hide(4)22, Spellcraft(4)21

Whip Sneak Attack +5d6

Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd

2nd
3
2
-
-

3rd
4
3
-
-

4th
5
4
-
-

5th
6
5
-
-

6th
6
5
2
-

17th
6
6
3
-

18th
6
6
5
-

19th
6
7
6
-

20th
6
7
6
2

Spell list

0 - Acid Splash, Disrupt Undead, Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue
1 - Blade of Blood, Chill Touch, Shocking Grasp, True Strike, Swift Expeditious Retreat, Enlarge(*)
2 - Sure Strike, Touch of Idiocy, Swift Invisibility, Dimension Hop, Hunter's Eye(*)
3 - Vampiric Touch

(*) Learned from feats or class abilities

I start out as a standard Duskblade channeling Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch, or Touch of Idiocy at a 15 ft range with my whip and using Blade of Blood if I need a little extra kick. I can cast in medium armor without failure and use a buckler. The last level of Duskblade nets me some 2nd level spells and Quick cast (which will come in handy later) and I'm ready to enter the SI. Being a Catfolk slows me down a little on the front end, but I liked the idea of a cat turning the whip back on the lion tamer.

Now I can use the whip for real damage which is helped by Lashing Whip and don't have to be so conscious of my positioning because I no longer provoke attacks of opportunity when using the whip. I can make attacks of opportunity and even sneak attack a bit if the requirements are met. I add tripping to my bag of tricks and add Enlarge to my spell list to help with this new ability. Crack of Fate gives me a flurry type ability when I use a full attack and Practiced Spellcaster helps me keep up my caster level. Third Hand gives me a few little tricks I can perform with my whip that can possible save a life or keep me out of a dangerous area while pushing a button or retrieving an item.

I add disarming stunning to my arsenal which has decent DCs due to strength and Enlarge plus I get yet another attack when using a full round. The penalties on Crack of Doom are manigable due to my full BAB, but can also be mitigated via Sure Strike or True Strike. I also get an improved familiar to help set up the requirements for my sneak attack which has improved again. I fluffed my familar as a lion to continue the theme even though there are no felines on the improved familiar lists, but you can use any of the decent melee familiars, Blink Dog is a decent choice. Finally I get Death Spiral. To maximize my one use per day, I use my daily quick cast to fire off a True Strike then move into the optimum position and stun anyone that can't make a minimum 41 DC Reflex save which turns to helplessness if they happen to fail thier Fort save too.

Throw some Unseen Seer into the mix for a couple more d6 of sneak attack and use advanced learning to pick up Hunter's Eye for even more. And I finally pick up Vampiric Touch, the go to spell for channeling. I also grab Shadow Stride so I can port, as a move action, to the optimal space for my Death Spiral rather than potential drawing attacks of opportunity by moving in the standard manner.

Complete Arcane - Extra spell, Practiced Spellcaster
Complete Mage - Unseen seer
Complete Warrior - Improved Familiar
Player's Handbook - various spells and feats
Player's Handbook 2 - Duskblade, Hunter's Eye, Blade of Blood, Sure Strike
Sword and Fist - Lasher
Tome of Battle - Martial Study, Shadow Stride

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:26 AM

Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me!

Itse Ruoskia
LE Human Cleric 5/Maiden of Pain 2/Divine Agent 3/Lasher 10

"There is no person so severely punished as those who subject themselves to the whip of their own remorse." -Lucius Annaeus Seneca

http://sashalomagaux.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/remorse.jpg

The pain always comes before the pleasure. I remind myself of that as the needle goes in, and the thought is the only thing that lingers as I sit limply against the wall for the next few minutes. Once I can move again, everything is finally normal. I'm me again, but even more so. I can smile.

It's one thing to be a priestess of the Willing Whip, but being one of her executioners can take a toll on a woman. We're taught from a young age: "Suffering strengthens us; only through our pain can we grow. Like a muscle must tear in order to thicken, so too must we be torn to thicken our love for the Goddess. Amen." And I still believe that, even now. Executing strangers in new and painful ways is one thing--exciting, even. But the ultimate test of faith is to deliver a family member through such suffering. I had the unique task of delivering three to their deaths after they tried to leave the faith. Their belief faltered, and they sought an escape from what they saw as needless suffering...but there is only one escape. To live is to suffer, so I was giving them what they wanted.

After that day, I sat by my bed and cried for days. The other priestesses left me to my pain, knowing that I would find my own way through it. And I did. It was then that I discovered liquid pain, the merciful substance that hurts to heal. A pin prick and a few minutes of downtime is a small price to pay for the euphoria that follows. During one such bout of downtime, Loviatar herself appeared before me to commend me. I had followed my faith at the cost of those I loved, and by experiencing that I had been through the ultimate pain: sacrifice.

My Goddess told me that I was to be her Whip in the World, to flagellate those who needed to experience more of her Perfect Pain. And I was to start with my fellow priestesses. They didn't seem to understand as I took up the First Maiden's whip for myself and began to lash out with strands of divine love. Nobody understood--just me, my Goddess, and the needle. I kept using, I kept dreaming, and I kept whipping, but no matter what I knew my job was never done. My lot is to suffer for my Maiden, as she had suffered for all of us. So I keep whipping those who require punishment, I keep dreaming of my Maiden's face, and I keep using the only tool I've ever known that lets me smile.

My name is Itse, and I'm a liquid pain addict. But the pain always comes before the pleasure...right?
LevelClassBase Attack BonusFort SaveRef SaveWill SaveSkillsFeatsClass Features
1stCleric 1+0+2+0+2Concentration 4, Craft: leatherworking 4, Diplomacy 4, Intimidate 2 (cc), Knowledge: religion 4, Spellcraft 4Improved Initiative, Violate SpellPain Domain, Evil Domain, Rebuke Undead, Spontaneous Casting (Inflict)
2ndCleric 2+1+3+0+3Concentration 5, Craft: leatherworking 5, Diplomacy 5, Intimidate 2.5 (cc), Knowledge: religion 5, Spellcraft 5
3rdCleric 3+2+3+1+3Concentration 6, Craft: leatherworking 6, Diplomacy 6, Intimidate 3 (cc), Knowledge: religion 6, Spellcraft 6Death Blow
4thCleric 4+3+4+1+4Concentration 7, Craft: leatherworking 7, Diplomacy 7, Intimidate 3.5 (cc), Knowledge: religion 7, Spellcraft 7
5thCleric 5+3+4+1+4Concentration 8, Craft: leatherworking 8, Diplomacy 8, Intimidate 4 (cc), Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 8
6thMaiden of Pain 1+3+4+3+4Concentration 9, Craft: leatherworking 9, Diplomacy 8, Intimidate 5, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 2Initiate of Loviatar, Law DevotionAgony Addiction, Extra Domain (Law), Lasher, Pain Touch 1/day
7thMaiden of Pain 2+4+4+4+4Concentration 10, Craft: leatherworking 10, Diplomacy 8, Intimidate 7, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 4
8thDivine Agent 1+4+4+4+6Concentration 11, Craft: leatherworking 11, Diplomacy 9, Intimidate 9, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 4.5 (cc)Granted Domain: Suffering
9thDivine Agent 2+5+4+4+7Concentration 12, Craft: leatherworking 12, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 11, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 5 (cc)Weapon Focus: WhipContact
10thDivine Agent 3+6/+1+5+5+7Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 13, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 13, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 5 (cc), Whip ClimberMenacing Aura, Godly Gift
11thLasher 1+7/+2+5+7+7Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 14, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 14, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 7, Whip ClimberWhip sneak attack +1d6, Close Combat, Wound, Whip Lash
12thLasher 2+8/+3+5+8+7Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 15, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 15, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 9, Whip ClimberKnockdown, Improved TripImproved Trip, Third Hand
13thLasher 3+9/+4+6+8+8Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 16, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 16, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 11, Whip ClimberCrack of Fate
14thLasher 4+10/+5+6+9+8Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 17, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 17, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 13, Whip ClimberLashing Whip
15thLasher 5+11/+6/+1+6+9+8Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 18, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 18, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 15, Whip ClimberCurling Wave StrikeSneak Attack +2d6
16thLasher 6+12/+7/+2+7+10+9Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 19, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 19, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 17, Whip ClimberImproved Disarm
17thLasher 7+13/+8/+3+7+10+9Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 20, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 20, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 19, Whip ClimberStunning Snap
18thLasher 8+14/+9/+4+7+11+9Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 21, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 21, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1, Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 21, Whip ClimberSnatch WeaponCrack of Doom
19thLasher 9+15/+10/+5+8+11+10Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 22, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 22, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 1.5 (cc), Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 22, Whip ClimberSneak Attack +3d6
20thLasher 10+16/+11/+6/+1+8+12+10Concentration 13, Craft: leatherworking 23, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 23, Knowledge: religion 7, Profession: executioner 2 (cc), Spellcraft 10, Use Rope 23, Whip ClimberDeath Spiral

StatPointsBaseLevelsTotalModifier
STR1016+016+3
DEX513+013+1
CON412+012+1
INT513+013+1
WIS815+520+5
CHA08+08+0

Level01st2nd3rd4th
1st32+1
2nd43+1
3rd43+12+1
4th54+13+1
5th54+13+12+1
6th54+13+12+1
7th54+14+13+1
8th54+14+13+1
9th65+14+13+11+1
10th65+14+13+11+1
11th65+14+13+11+1
12th65+14+13+12+1
13th65+14+13+12+1
14th65+14+13+12+1
15th65+14+13+12+1
16th65+14+13+12+1
17th65+14+13+12+1
18th65+14+13+12+1
19th65+14+13+12+1
20th66+14+13+12+1

Sample Spells (can change each day to fit party):
0-level
Create Water
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Inflict Minor Wounds
Read Magic
Resistance
1st level
Entropic Shield
Lesser Vigor
Shield of Faith
Divine Favor
Resurgence
Omen of Peril
Protection from Good (Evil)
2nd level
Hold Person
Spiritual Weapon
Divine Insight
Nybor's Gentle Reminder
Sadism (Pain)
3rd level
Mystic Lash
Bestow Curse
Masochism
Wrack (Pain)
4th level
Air Walk
Violate Mystic Lash
Enervation (Suffering)

Levels 1-5: You're a standard cleric with a twist. Instead of buffing up for long combats, you're all about going first and hitting hard. Open up with a hold person to paralyze the opponent, making them helpless. Follow in the next round by closing and delivering a coup de grace as a standard action. Since you don't have whip proficiency yet, a scythe is your go-to weapon for that sweet x4 crit multiplier on your CdGs. Also, Evil Domain pairs nicely with Violate Spell (required for later) to give a slight boost to CL on any spells you care to metamagic with it.
Levels 6-10: We start whipping people and we never look back. Not only that, but we pick up a great bevy of spells that boost us in all cases, including the ability to use Air Walk to whip pesky flying foes. Initiate of Loviatar gives us a little more oomph in combat, as well as opening up some great bread & butter spells in Nybor's Gentle Reminder and Mystic Lash. These allow us to pester our foes and even stun them routinely, not to mention that Mystic Lash works with all of our class features. You'll want to snag a Lethe's lash as soon as it's affordable for dealing with pesky casters another way if they beat the Concentration checks imposed by Nybor's Gentle Reminder. Wrack can also make foes helpless to deliver coup de graces, and Liquid Pain is another domain spell to help feed your crippling addiction. For your godly gift, it says that it's usually a domain spell. Check with your DM to see if they'll float Mystic Lash as a godly gift, since it's 3rd-level and bestowed by your deity via the Initiate of Loviatar feat. The nice part about godly gift is that it sets your caster level equal to your character level for it, so 1 Mystic Lash/day will benefit from its full base damage potential of 4d6 electric damage. If not, we've still got the ability to cast Violate Mystic Lash, raising our CL to 8, only an ioun stone away from having a CL of 9 and thus having a baseline damage of 3d6 damage (half electric, half vile).
Levels 11-20: We enter into the Secret Ingredient and never look back.

Requirements

Use Rope: Rather than stopping at the required 2 ranks, the skill is maxed. I've also snagged Whip climber to make use of those ranks for qualification as well as the check needed to secure a grappling hook. Another use is that a target can be bound for execution with a headsman's axe, and max ranks here will minimize their chances of wriggling free.
Craft Leatherworking: Instead of 2 ranks, this is another skill we've maxed. Not only does it allow us to make some GP, but we can create and repair masterwork whips to our heart's content.
Weapon Focus (whip): While +1 to attacks and damage isn't usually much to write home about, here it directly helps our other class features. Sure, there's built-in synergy with the attack bonus boosting Third Hand, Crack of Fate/Doom, and Death Spiral, but the +1 damage also gets us closer on every whip attack to activating our deadly Touch Spell/Knockdown/Curling Wave Strike combination, made extra deadly with a side of Mystic Lash. Also, it helps boost the save DC of our frequent coup de grace attempts by +2 (+1 from the feat, doubled since coup de grace attacks are always crits).
Proficiency (Whip) & owning a whip: Instead of burning a feat on this, it is obtained by Maiden of Pain levels. Furthermore, not only are we proficient with the whip, but we can use it to deliver our touch spells, thus increasing our touch range from 5 feet to 15 in the blink of an eye! When it comes to owning a whip, we can use our ranks in craft: leatherworking to create our own. Thus, even if our first whip is taken away, we have plenty more where that came from.

Class Features

Whip sneak attack: When we deliver coup de graces from 15 feet away, extra damage adds 3-18 to save DC vs death (should they survive initial damage). Also, extra damage means a better chance of triggering Knockdown. Law Devotion and Weapon Focus mean a better chance of hitting with our sneak attacks. Mystic Lash stuns foes and makes them more prone to sneak attack, as do Death Spiral and Wrack, hold person, etc...plenty of cleric options to flat-foot your foes!
Close Combat: partnered w/ Whip Lash and Lasher from maiden of pain, can deliver touch spells against foes within 5 feet through whip without attack of opportunity.
Wound: With Lasher from Maiden of Pain, not only can we deal regular damage, but also deliver touch spells through our whip.
Whip Lash: Since touch spells can be delivered via Lasher from Maiden of Pain, one could cast a touch spell without discharging it and hold the charge until an attack of opportunity is provoked, thus delivering the touch spell alongside an Attack of Opportunity. Also, using Mystic Lash from Initiate of Loviatar means that an attack of opportunity also delivers a chance to stun foes.
Improved Trip: Nybor's gentle Reminder or Menacing Aura can impose -2 penalties on opposed trip checks, and we can always channel a Bestow Curse for a -4 if we'd prefer. Also, Knockdown will trigger whenever 10 or more damage is dealt with the whip. Thanks to Mystic Lash, we've got a beefed up baseline for damage. Weapon Focus adds a little to that, as well as whip sneak attack. We'll be doing 10 damage frequently whether or not we're delivering touch spells via our whip (see above), so we'll be getting plenty of opportunities to trip opponents. Did I mention that with Mystic Lash we've also got a chance to stun them? After that, you can take your extra attack granted by Improved Trip or activate Curling Wave Strike 1/round to attempt to trip another creature. Again, thanks to Mystic Lash you've got a chance to stun this one too, not to mention the fact that they could be facing a penalty on their check from your aura or spells. Law Devotion and Initiate of Loviatar providing a slight boost to the initial attack roll is just icing on the cake.
Third Hand: Grabbing stuff is cool! You can be like Indiana Jones! Well, sure. But we've also got two other things going for us here. First of all, we've got the Whip climber skill trick. 1/encounter, we can use a move action to treat our whip like a grappling hook. While this sounds a lot like Third Hand, it comes at a much lower DC and lets us make a Use Rope check (which we've maxed) to secure the hook. Also, you know how later on when you get Improved Disarm, Third Hand allows you to grab the disarmed weapon if you've got a free hand? More on that later ;). Once again, Weapon Focus, Initiate of Loviatar, and Law Devotion provide us with bonuses to our attack roll which make these DCs easier to meet for Third Hand.
Crack of Fate/Crack of Doom: extra attacks are always fun, especially when made with a Mystic Lash for a chance to stun your foes. There's built-in synergy with Improved Trip and Improved Disarm as more attacks (even at a penalty) means more attempts. Add in the ability to deliver touch spells that allow multiple attacks or deal 10 damage to trigger Knockdown (and possibly Curling Wave Strike) and we've got a winner on our hands. The only problem is the penalty to hit, but we've got ways to offset that. Namely, Law Devotion's scaling sacred bonus to attacks paired with the bonus from Initiate of Loviatar. If we're still looking to boost our attacks, we could turn to the sadism or masochism spells. Also, if you manage to acquire Lethe's Lash (see suggested items, below) every attack is a chance to rob a spellcaster's highest-level spells. You've already got 4 iteratives to play with and a possible extra attack from Improved Trip, but using this ability also gives you two more chances, with the possibility to remove up to 7 spells from a foe in one round. Definitely worth the price tag, especially by the time you gain these abilities.
Lashing Whip: While a +2 bonus to damage may not seem like much in some circles, to us that's actually a +4 bonus to our coup de grace save DCs (+2 from the damage, x2 since it's an auto-crit). Also, every extra point of damage counts in getting us towards the 10 damage minimum to trigger Knockdown. Between this, Weapon Focus, and whip sneak attack, we've got a decent shot to activate it on most attacks. Add in the extra base damage of Mystic Lash plus the damage potential of a touch spell, and we're auto-succeeding on our attempts to deal some damage and trigger Knockdown.
Improved Disarm: Again, our menacing aura or Nybor's Gentle Reminder makes opponent's lives that extra little bit more miserable. A -2 to attacks and checks means they're just that much easier to disarm, especially when you add in our bonuses to attack. You can also go harder with a -4 penalty to attacks from a Bestow Curse channeled through your whip. Speaking of our attack bonuses, Weapon Focus provides built-in synergy, while Law Devotion and Initiate of Loviatar add on even more. You can bring in the sadism or masochism spells as needed, but chances are the schlub you're up against is already disarmed. Speaking of, when you use that move action and Third Hand to deposit their fancy weapon neatly in your free hand you can actually do something with it! Snatch Weapon allows you a free attack with their one-handed weapon, albeit at a penalty. Once more, we've got Law Devotion, Initiate of Loviatar, and other ways of boosting our attack rolls to make up for that.
Stunning Snap: While it's nice to stun our foes with Mystic Lash, eventually you've got something else you'd rather use your 3rd-level spells on. This allows you to free up that slot a bit with up to 10 stunning attacks at will while maintaining a decent save DC. Speaking of that DC, you've got a reach of 15 ft with your whip but a 20-ft menacing aura. Any opponents who fail their save against your aura receive -2 to saves...including this one!
Death Spiral: We've already talked about how easy it is to boost our attack rolls. Heck, I anticipate we'll see a handful of Cloistered Clerics for free Knowledge Devotion and a couple folks using Duskblade's Quickened True Strike for a +20 bonus to the save DC on here. Season to taste, but I like our chances with a +16 BAB. Taking into consideration Weapon Focus, Law Devotion, and Initiate of Loviatar we're looking at a +25 (+16 BAB+1 Weapon Focus+7 Law Devotion+1 Initiate of Loviatar) bonus to attack which places our save DC anywhere between 26 and 45 depending on attack roll. Thus, it's easy to stun a bunch of foes and set them up for sneak attacks until the cows come home. Making them helpless is the harder part. The DC is fixed at a meager 18, but we've got a few things that can boost that. Most notably, we've got our Menacing Aura to impose a -2 to opponents' saves as well as the ability to channel touch spells through our whip. You can ask the DM, since I'm pretty sure it doesn't work this way, but I wonder if you can channel a touch spell into your whip, hold the charge, and then use Death Spiral to have the spell affect all foes within 15 feet (since you're making one attack roll to set the DC). Again, not likely but that would be sweet. Even without it, you can soften your enemies up beforehand with some choice touch spells like Bestow Curse delivered through your whip so they're looking at a -4 penalty to saves. Those penalties are basically just bonuses to our DCs, so we've got an effective Reflex DC of 32-51 (depending on attack roll) vs. stunning followed by an effective Fortitude DC of 24 vs. becoming helpless. Once those opponents are helpless, Death Blow allows us to move around the field of battle delivering coup de graces with 15-ft reach to our heart's content. Our opponent's penalties to their Fort saves continue to help us out here should the damage not kill them outright. Since each coup de grace will definitely be doing more than 10 damage (especially with Whip Sneak Attack on each one), that means each one triggers Knockdown with all our tripping perks and penalties to our opponents. Since we've got Improved Trip, if the coup-de-grace'd bloke still isn't dead, you can enjoy an extra attack against him. Once per round, if you'd rather hurt someone that's not part of the pain party yet, you can activate Curling Wave Strike instead of taking your extra attack to trip another fool. Should these attacks be delivered via a Mystic Lash spell, each one of them carries more damage than your standard whip as well as imposing another chance to stun the opponent if they're not stunned yet or coming to the end of their stunning/helpless duration. All aboard the Pain Train!

A whip. Duh.
Headsman's Axe (BoVD pg 40) allows for us to bind a captive using Use Rope, then make a Profession (executioner) check. If we meet a DC 18, they're looking at instant death. Even on a failed check, it allows for a coup de grace which is something we're plenty familiar with.
Lethe's lash (PlH pg 80) allows you to remove spells from casting opponents, which is great. Combined with the extra attacks we're able to deal and the synergy with Nybor's Gentle Reminder making life difficult to begin with for casters, we're sitting pretty. This is a viable weapon for levels 10+ where the price tag is just a drop in the bucket.
Flaws, etc.: An illumian with 2 flaws and a metamagic storm can still snag all required feats along with Extend Spell and Persistent Spell. Not only that, but a Naenhoon Illumian with some nightsticks can Persist spells without having to increase the level. Since Mystic Lash has a range of 0ft, it is a valid target for Persistent Spell. Enjoy the ability to stun fools all day every day!
LA buyoff: This is one time that I'm not actually wishing for a template on the build. You could always go with the strength-boosters like Lolth-Touched, but since we're so focused on Loviatar that would probably cause story concerns. Instead, we're good without templates here. If it's a part of your game you can't do without, I'll always plug the phrenic and half-fey templates for bringing a good variety of stuff to any character.
Other: If you can wedge a way to get a plant creature as a companion into this build, I'd suggest a Warbound Lesser Battlebriar (MMIII). It can impale foes on its thorns, rendering them helpless and thus prone to your standard-action coup de grace attempts. Since I couldn't find a decent way with this build, though, it's more of a thought on the off chance you could buy one or work with your DM to acquire one through a quest, so it's been kept to this Adaptation section.

PHB
Sword and Fist
Song and Silence
Player's Guide to Faerun
Manual of the Planes
Book of Vile Darkness
Planar Handbook
Complete Adventurer
Champions of Ruin
Complete Champion
Stormwrack

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:28 AM

You seem an awfully good fellow. I hate to kill you.

Maenigo Antoya
Chaotic Good Human
Spellthief 7/Lasher 1/Spellthief +3/Lasher +9

The man wearing all black fell to the ground, clutching at his stomach, and convulsed. His sword fell from his grip, and skittered across the dry and dusty ground.

"AAHHHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAAHAHAHHAAAAA!!"

He sucked at the air around him, trying to draw in a breath to fill his lungs. Tears streamed from his eyes.

A whip-crack stirred the dirt near his face, close enough to billow flecks of dust into his eyes. It was a whip-crack stronger than the norm, one that meant business. It spoke of pain and anguish unlike what could be granted by an ordinary whip wielded by an ordinary man.

The man in black stopped laughing.

"My apologies," the man in black said, calm as can be. He rolled slowly to his back, hands lifted to show his open, empty palms. "It's not often that a man comes face to face with a whip. My laughter was, by no means, intended as an insult for your choice of weapon."

"It was my father's." The other man's words were heavily accented. "Show me your lip."

"I...uh..." The confusion on the face of the man in black was evident, even through the dark mask he wore. "I'm sorry?"

"Your lip. Your lip!" The other man waved his whip, brushing it against the man in black's face, just below the nose. "Show it to me!"

The man in black shifted slightly, turning to more face his foe. He eased one hand, slowly, to his face and drew the mask he wore up a quarter of an inch to better show off his upper lip.

The other man leaned in, warily, whip still at the ready, and took a closer look. "You've shaved recently?"

"I shave every morning."

The other man nodded, apparently satisfied at what he saw or heard, and stepped back. He relaxed visibly, his stance much more at ease, though he remained alert and on guard. "I'll still have to kill you."

"For having shaved?"

"I am looking for a mustachioed man. Obviously, you are not he." The man gave a little shrug of his shoulder. "It doesn't change the fact that we must still duel."

"Yes. Speaking of which, would you mind terribly much if....?" The man in black lifted an eyebrow, nodding his head toward himself, lying prone.

"Oh! My apologies." The other man gave a quick, apologetic bow, and stepped back.

The man in black offered a nod of acceptance. He lifted gracefully to his feet in the most non-threatening way he could. Once he did, he found his feet mere inches from the edge of an insanely high cliff. He stepped slowly, casually away from the steep drop. "Well, then," he said, stooping to pick up his sword, "shall we?"

"We'll wait until you're ready," the other man said, indicating to a comfortable-looking rock while he sat down on another of his own.

"Very well." The man in black sat. He eased off one boot, then the other, taking his time to empty the rocks and gravel out of them. "So, tell me about this man you're looking for."

The other man stared into the middle distance, his voice a solemn whisper. "When I was a child, this man came into my father's shop. He ordered for himself a quarterstaff to be made, carved with intricate ruins and sigils. I remember of him his mustache, six elaborate curls, three on either side of his nose. He visited the shop daily, worked with my father to imprint his magic into the wood my father so carefully crafted. When, finally it was done, this man took the staff without paying my father. Try as he might, my father couldn't get this rich man to pay what he owed. The time...the effort... all for naught."

The man let out a heavy sigh, his boot kicking idly at the dirt under his feet.

"My father lost everything. Without the money, he couldn't pay off the debts. He lost his shop. We were kicked out of our home, left to the grime of the streets. And my mother, she got sick. With no one to help, living in the cold of the streets, she got worse. My father, he never left her side. Cared for her as best as he could, but...." The man shook his head at the memory and wiped the tears from his eyes before they could fall.

"He made this whip, my father. Found some bits of leather, here and there. He wove it all together with strands of my mother's hair, to remember her. After the years of caring for her, he drew ill, too." His fingers stroked slowly along the leather of the whip. "And now, this is all I have to remember them by. My mother's hair and my father's toil.

The man looked up, raising his eyes to meet those of the man in black. "So now, I search for this man. I will remind him of my father. And I will take everything from him. When I finally find him, I will go up to the six-curled mustache man and say, 'Hello, my name is Maenigo Antoya, you destroyed my father. Prepare to cry!' And then I will take everything from him. I will lash away at his mind, strip away everything he knows. I will search his tower, find his library, destroy his spellbooks, and leave it all burning to ash around him. I will take from him all he has aquired and leave him penniless and empty, alone in the street."

The man in black nodded. "And you've been searching for him ever since?"

Maenigo waved a hand. "It's been twenty years, now, and I've been starting to wonder if I would truely recognize him again. But still I search. I just do these kinds of jobs to pay the bills."

"I see," said the man in black, rising to his feet. "Well, I certainly hope you find this man some day and can duel him to the pain, as it sounds he deserves."

"You are ready then?"

"Ready or not, you've been more than fair."

Maenigo Antoya nodded and stood, and the two began their duel.

Str 15
Con 14
Dex 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 12

Stat increases: 4th Cha; 8th Cha; 12th Str; 16th Str; 20th Str

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Spellthief 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Disable Device 4; Hide 4; K: Arcana 4; Listen 4; Move Silently 4; Open Lock 4; Search 4; Spellcraft 4; Spot 4
1st: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip; H: Darkstalker
Sneak Attack +1d6; Steal Spell (0 or 1); Trapfinding

2nd
Spellthief 2
+1
+0
+0
+3
Disable Device 1(5); Hide 1(5); K: Arcana 1(5); Listen 1(5); Move Silently 1(5); Open Lock 1(5); Search 1(5); Spellcraft 1(5); Spot 1(5)
--
Detect Magic; Spellgrace +1; Steal Spell Effect

3rd
Spellthief 3
+2
+1
+1
+3
Disable Device 1(6); Hide 1(6); K: Arcana 1(6); Listen 1(6); Move Silently 1(6); Open Lock 1(6); Search 1(6); Spellcraft 1(6); Spot 1(6)
3rd: Weapon Focus: Whip
Steal Energy Resistance 10

4th
Spellthief 4
+3
+1
+1
+4
Disable Device 1(7); Hide 1(7); K: Arcana 1(7); Listen 1(7); Move Silently 1(7); Open Lock 1(7); Search 1(7); Spellcraft 1(7); Spot 1(7)
--
Steal Spell (2nd)

5th
Spellthief 5
+3
+1
+1
+4
Craft (Leatherworking) 1(1); Disable Device 1(8); Hide 1(8); K: Arcana (7); Listen 1(8); Move Silently 1(8); Open Lock 1(8); Search 1(8); Spellcraft 1(8); Spot 1(8)
--
Sneak Attack +2d6; Steal Spell-like Ability

6th
Spellthief 6
+4
+2
+2
+5
Craft (Leatherworking) 1(2); Disable Device 1(9); Hide 1(9); K: Arcana (7); Listen 1(9); Move Silently 1(9); Open Lock 1(9); Search 1(9); Spellcraft 1(9); Spot 1(9)
6th: Ancestral Relic
Steal Spell (3rd)

7th
Spellthief 7
+5
+2
+2
+5
Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 1(10); K: Arcana (7); Listen 1(10); Move Silently 1(10); Open Lock (9); Search (9); Spellcraft 1(10); Spot 1(10); Use Rope 4(2)
--
Absorb Spell

8th
Lasher 1
+6/1
+2
+4
+5
Balance 5(5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide (10); K: Arcana (7); Listen (10); Move Silently (10); Open Lock (9); Search (9); Spellcraft (10); Spot (10); Use Rope (2)
--
Whip Sneak Attack +1d6 (+3d6); Close Combat; Wound; Whip Lash

9th
Spellthief 8
+7/2
+2
+4
+6
Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(12); K: Arcana (7); Listen 2(12); Move Silently 2(12); Open Lock (9); Search 1(10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 2(12); Use Rope (2)
9th: Blind-Fight
Steal Spell (4th)

10th
Spellthief 9
+7/2
+3
+5
+6
Concentration 5(5); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 1(13); K: Arcana (7); Listen 1(13); Move Silently 1(13); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(13); Use Rope (2)
--
Arcane Sight; Sneak Attack +3d6 (+4d6 whip)

11th
Spellthief 10
+8/3
+3
+5
+7
Concentration 5(10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 1(14); K: Arcana (7); Listen 1(14); Move Silently 1(14); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(14); Use Rope (2)
--
Steal Spell (5th)

12th
Lasher 2
+9/4
+3
+6
+7
Concentration (10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(15); K: Arcana (7); Listen (14); Move Silently 2(15); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(15); Use Rope (2)
12th: Mage Slayer
Improved Trip; Third Hand

13th
Lasher 3
+10/5
+4
+6
+8
Concentration (10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(16); K: Arcana (7); Listen (14); Move Silently 2(16); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(16); Use Rope (2)
--
Crack of Fate

14th
Lasher 4
+11/6/1
+4
+7
+8
Concentration (10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(17); K: Arcana (7); Listen (14); Move Silently 2(17); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(17); Use Rope (2)
--
Lashing Whip

15th
Lasher 5
+12/7/2
+4
+7
+8
Concentration (10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(18); K: Arcana (7); Listen (14); Move Silently 2(18); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(18); Use Rope (2)
15th: Pierce Magical Concealment
Sneak Attack +2d6 (+5d6)

16th
Lasher 6
+13/8/3
+5
+8
+9
Concentration (10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(19); K: Arcana (7); Listen (14); Move Silently 2(19); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(19); Use Rope (2)
--
Improved Disarm

17th
Lasher 7
+14/9/4
+5
+8
+9
Concentration (10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(20); K: Arcana (7); Listen (14); Move Silently 2(20); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(20); Use Rope (2)
--
Stunning Snap

18th
Lasher 8
+15/10/5
+5
+9
+9
Concentration (10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(21); K: Arcana (7); Listen (14); Move Silently 2(21); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(21); Use Rope (2)
18th: Pierce Magical Protection
Crack of Doom

19th
Lasher 9
+16/11/6/1
+6
+9
+10
Concentration (10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(22); K: Arcana (7); Listen (14); Move Silently 2(22); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(22); Use Rope (2)
--
Sneak Attack +3d6 (+6d6)

20th
Lasher 10
+17/12/7/2
+6
+10
+10
Concentration (10); Balance (5); Craft (Leatherworking) (2); Disable Device (9); Hide 2(23); K: Arcana (7); Listen (14); Move Silently 2(23); Open Lock (9); Search (10); Spellcraft (10); Spot 1(23); Use Rope (2)
--
Death Spiral

Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
0/2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
0/2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
1/4
0/2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
1/4
0/2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
1/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Note: Table above does not include bonus spells from Charisma.

Spells known:
4th: Distract Assailant (SpC); Sniper's Shot (SpC)

6th: Armor Lock (CS); Distract Assailant (SpC); Sniper's Shot (SpC)

8th: Armor Lock (CS); Distract Assailant (SpC); Nerveskitter (SpC); Sniper's Shot (SpC) // Arcane Turmoil (CM); Wraithstrike (SpC)

10th: Armor Lock (CS); Distract Assailant (SpC); Nerveskitter (SpC); Sniper's Shot (SpC) // Arcane Turmoil (CM); Mindburn (MoE); Wraithstrike (SpC)

Level
Weapon
Price

6th
+1 Whip, +1 resistance bonus to saves
4,250

7th
+1 Whip, +1 resistance bonus to saves
4,250

8th
+1 Whip, +1 resistance bonus to saves
4,250

9th
+1 Whip, +1 resistance bonus to saves
4,250

10th
Lethe's Lash, +1 resistance bonus to saves
24,250

11th
Spell-storing Lethe's Lash, +1 resistance bonus to saves
30,250

12th
Shadowstrike, Spell-storing Lethe's Lash, +2 resistance bonus to saves
42,000

13th
Shadowstrike, Dispelling, Spell-storing Lethe's Lash, +2 resistance bonus to saves
52,000

14th
Silent Moves, Shadowstrike, Dispelling, (Dispelling, Greater [Synergy]), Spell-storing Lethe's Lash, +2 resistance bonus to saves
70,000

15th
Silent Moves, Shadowstrike, Dispelling, (Dispelling, Greater [Synergy]), Spell-storing Lethe's Lash, +4 resistance bonus to saves
97,000

16th
Silent Moves, Shadowstrike, Dispelling, (Dispelling, Greater [Synergy]), Spell-storing Lethe's Lash, +4 resistance bonus to saves
97,000

17th
Silent Moves, Shadowstrike, Dispelling, (Dispelling, Greater [Synergy]), Spell-storing Lethe's Lash, +4 resistance bonus to saves, Evasion
153,250

18th
Silent Moves, Shadowstrike, Dispelling, (Dispelling, Greater [Synergy]), Impedance, Spell-storing Lethe's Lash, +5 resistance bonus to saves, Evasion
213,500

19th
Silent Moves, Shadowstrike, Dispelling, (Dispelling, Greater [Synergy]), Impedance, Magebane, Spell-storing, +2 Lethe's Lash, +5 resistance bonus to saves, +2 luck bonus to saves, Evasion
287,500

20th
Silent Moves, Shadowstrike, Dispelling, (Dispelling, Greater [Synergy]), Impedance, Magebane, Spell-storing, +4 Lethe's Lash, +5 resistance bonus to saves, +3 insight bonus to saves, +2 luck bonus to saves, Evasion
380,000

At 5th level, you're a utility character:
Maximum ranks in Seach, Open Lock, Disable Device, Listen, Spot, Hide, and Move Silently let you find and disable the traps, open the locks, and scout (even better with that Darkstalker feat).
Steal Spell makes you a back-up healer. When the party healer goes down, who heals him? You do. Steal a healing spell from his unconscious body and cast it on him. Welcome back to the world, healer.

In combat, you're looking to stay away from the bleeding. Whip(dagger) as your choice of weapon keeps you out of arms reach of melee folk. And you can still deliver sneak attacks from flanking (you just can't help other people flank.)
Hide + Sneak Attack + Sniper's Shot + (Heavy) Crossbow + Steal Spell Effect = Flying wizards coming down to your level where the BSF can whack 'em.

The name of the game here is still utility. Your maxed skills are still making you the scout and the party look-out. You're no slouch in dealing with traps and locks, but there are some you can't handle. You can still easily aid someone else in that regard, though.
Steal Spell continues to have wide applications. How many rounds does it take a spellcaster to buff a party? Half as many with you around. You're still the back-up healer in that regard.

And, of course, Steal Spell can be used as a pseudo-debuff in combat, reducing the resources of your enemies. (As can Steal Spell Effect and Steal Spell-like Ability.) But now your Ancestral Relic has become a Lethe's Lash, too. With the early level in Lasher, your whip can strike for damage against armored foes, and Lethe wipes a spell from their minds with each hit, too.

These are the levels where things start to get really fun! Lasher starts letting you use that whip; and oh! what a whip it is!
There are a multitude of ways to set off a sneak attack (the Pierce Magical Concealment feat helps here!), use whichever best fits the situation: Armor Lock or Distract Assailant (a swift action spell, btw, which can be cast if needed after the first attack gets you a stolen spell). The Shadowstrike ability of your whip. Flanking. Hiding.
Four attacks (three from BAB, one from Crack of Fate) in the round can all be sneak attacks (fairly easily) and for each that hits (see: Wraithstrike):

sacrifice 1d6 sneak attack to steal a spell of up to 5th level.
sacrifice 1d6 sneak attack to steal a spell effect (Contingency, perhaps?)
sacrifice 1d6 sneak attack to steal a SLA
remove the highest level spell via Lethe's Lash
(Greater) Dispel targets the foe (if you choose to, there are a finite number of uses per day -- use them wisely.)
Spell stored in whip targets foe (if there is a spell stored, that is. see: Arcane Turmoil and Mindburn for interesting spells to store.)
and then...what am I forgetting in all of this....oh, yes! The whip deals damage, too.

Let's be honest here for a moment, shall we? At these levels, melee has no chance whatsoever going up against a highly optimized spellcaster.
But neither does most any party. If the DM is throwing an optimized spellcaster at you, it was for a TPK, anyway.

Against other spellcasters, the act remains the same. You gain two more attacks each round (one from BAB, one from Crack of Doom) and new ways to set up sneak attacks (Stunning Snap and Death Spiral). The whip adds Impedance to each hit (not every spellcaster maximizes Spellcraft, ya know.)

Complete Adventurer: Spellthief class
Lords of Madness: Darkstalker feat
Book of Exalted Deeds: Ancestral Relic feat
Complete Arcane: Mage Slayer feat; Pierce Magical Concealment feat; Pierce Magical Protection

Whip:
Planar Handbook: Lethe's Lash
Magic Item Compendium: Shadowstrike; Dispelling; Greater Dispelling; Impedance; Magebane
Oriental Adventures: Silent Moves

Anything not indicated above can be found in the SRD.

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 05:29 AM

And that's your lot! Judges, take your places!

I do have an entry in there, but I won't disclose which it is yet, I think. In the interests of fairness, it won't be eligible to win though.

Piggy Knowles

2014-09-28, 07:56 AM

Venger

2014-09-28, 08:20 AM

Hmm. I've just briefly scanned the build tables so far, but it seems like an interesting lot from what I've seen.

I was surprised that we didn't get any Impure Princes (although we did get a daelkyr half-blood using a tentacle whip, which is close enough). I also would have expected more bards and Maidens of Pain.

I look forward to reading the entries in greater detail!

impure prince, requiring ranger or druid to enter, takes up a lotta room, plus it'd kind of overshadow the SI. same with maiden of pain since you gotta be a cleric of loviatar

dysprosium

2014-09-28, 08:58 AM

Well crap.

I thought I had more time to enter. My fault for not reading the submission time correctly.

Darrin

2014-09-28, 10:22 AM

Piggy Knowles

2014-09-28, 10:54 AM

impure prince, requiring ranger or druid to enter, takes up a lotta room, plus it'd kind of overshadow the SI. same with maiden of pain since you gotta be a cleric of loviatar

I didn't work up any build stubs or anything, but I'm picturing something like Ranger 1/Bard 4/Impure Prince 5/Lasher 10. Use Whirling Blade to throw your tentacle whip around. +19 BAB and all that goodness.

Alternately, a kalashtar Warblade 10/Lasher 10 build using the Dancing With Shadows feat and Improved Combat Expertise to focus on insane defenses with your whip, although that treads a bit on the toes of Urpriest's dancing queen from back in Dervish.

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 11:06 AM

There has been one late entry. I'll post it here for judging anyway, but I would recommend penalising its tardiness!

Kash, the Tyrant
LE Human Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 5/Warblade 1/Lasher 10

"You dare defy me? You dare to stand against the might of Hextor?"

*CRACK*

"Drop your weapon."

*CRACK*

"Hands behind your head."

*CRACK*

"Now cower. Beg for my forgiveness. I want to see you grovel."

*CRACK*

"Attaboy. There's a good dog." :smallamused:

Point buy: 16 Str/8 Dex/12 Con/14 Int/16 Wis/10 Cha
Level-up bonuses go in Wis.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Cleric 1
+0
+2
+0
+2
Autohypnosis 1 (cc), Concentration 4, Craft (Blacksmithing) 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 1, Knowledge (History) 1, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spellcraft 4, Use Rope 2 (cc)
Combat Expertise, Law Devotion, Weapon Focus (Flail), Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Rebuke undead, War and Domination domains

2nd
Cleric 2
+1
+3
+0
+3
Concentration 5, Craft (Blacksmithing) 5, Knowledge (The Planes) 5, Knowledge (Religion) 5, Spellcraft 5, Craft (Leatherworking) 2
-
-

3rd
Cleric 3
+2
+3
+1
+3
Concentration 6, Intimidate 6
Dread Tyranny
-

4th
Cleric 4
+3
+4
+1
+4
Concentration 7, Craft (Blacksmithing) 6, Intimidate 7, Knowledge (Religion) 7, Spellcraft 7
-
-

5th
Ordained Champion 1
+4
+6
+1
+6
Concentration 8, Intimidate 8, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 1, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Spellcraft 8
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip)
Bonus domain (Destruction), combat feats (exchanging Destruction domain ability), continued rebuking advancement, modified spontaneous casting

6th
Ordained Champion 2
+5
+7
+1
+7
Concentration 9, Intimidate 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Knowledge (Religion) 9, Spellcraft 9
Weapon Focus (Whip), Diehard
Smite

7th
Ordained Champion 3
+6
+7
+2
+7
Concentration 10, Intimidate 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 9
-
Channel spell, divine bulwark

8th
Ordained Champion 4
+7
+8
+2
+8
Concentration 11, Intimidate 11, Knowledge (Religion) 11, Spellcraft 10
-
Fist of the gods, rapid spontaneous casting

9th
Ordained Champion 5
+8
+8
+2
+8
Concentration 12, Intimidate 12, Knowledge (The Planes) 11, Spellcraft 11
Martial Study (Action Before Thought)
Holy warrior, war caster

10th
Warblade 1
+9
+10
+2
+8
Concentration 13, Intimidate 13, Tumble 5
-
Battle clarity (Reflex saves +1), weapon aptitude

11th
Lasher 1
+10
+10
+4
+8
Balance 3, Concentration 14, Intimidate 14
-
Whip sneak attack +1d6, close combat, wound, whip lash

12th
Lasher 2
+11
+10
+5
+8
Balance 5, Concentration 15, Intimidate 15, Spot 1
Improved Trip, Vae School
Third hand

13th
Lasher 3
+12
+11
+5
+9
Concentration 16, Intimidate 16, Spot 4
-
Crack of fate

14th
Lasher 4
+13
+11
+6
+9
Concentration 17, Intimidate 17, Spot 7
-
Lashing whip

15th
Lasher 5
+14
+11
+6
+9
Concentration 18, Intimidate 18, Spot 10
Sickening Strike
Sneak attack +2d6

16th
Lasher 6
+15
+12
+7
+10
Concentration 19, Intimidate 19, Spot 13
Improved Disarm
-

17th
Lasher 7
+16
+12
+7
+10
Concentration 20, Intimidate 20, Spot 16
-
Stunning snap

18th
Lasher 8
+17
+12
+8
+10
Concentration 21, Intimidate 21, Spot 19
Martial Stance (Hearing the Air)
Crack of doom

19th
Lasher 9
+18
+13
+8
+11
Concentration 22, Intimidate 22, Spot 22
-
Sneak attack +3d6

20th
Lasher 10
+19
+13
+9
+11
Concentration 23, Intimidate 23, Spot 23, Use Rope 4
-
Death spiral

Warblade Maneuvers: Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Disarming Strike, Iron Heart Surge, Bolstering Voice
Kash is a champion of Hextor, the god of tyranny. For him, the whip is more than a mere weapon: it is a symbol of dominance, of strength, of the total subordination of the weak under its sharp lash. It is the perfect tool with which to assert his power.

Kash's abilities are focused on controlling and subduing his foes, using his whip not just to disarm and trip them but also to magically compel their obedience with spell-channeling.

Kash begins as a cleric. In the early levels, he's a frontline fighter, with Law Devotion (which he can use twice a day) and Weapon Focus to improve his melee combat. He takes great pleasure in using his flail to trip and disarm enemies, leaving them at his mercy, but the short range is annoying--it gives them the chance to fight back.
At 5th level, Kash takes his first level of Ordained Champion, dedicating himself to warfare in Hextor's name. The first thing he does is trade in the granted power of his new domain for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip). Now he can humiliate his foes from a safe distance using the whip's reach. It's not so great for dealing damage, but Kash doesn't want his enemies dead--he wants them crushed under his heel. If he really needs to finish them off, he still has his flail as a backup weapon.

He's also begun investing in fear. The Dread Tyranny feat adds scare to his spell list (a potent weapon at these low levels) and improves his intimidate (which will be his main social skill, alongside compulsions). Fear is not the primary focus of the build, but it expands the character's options a bit, and it fits the theme very well. In the first round of combat, Kash typically initiates a duel of wills (ToB p27) to assert his dominance over the enemy.
By 10th level, Kash has taken all five levels of Ordained Champion. The most notable trick here is channel spell: it allows Kash to deliver a spell through his whip. With 15 feet of reach, whips are ideal for channeling spells. His favorites are his Domination domain spells, command and suggestion (dominate person is sadly ineligible with its full-round casting time), and he'll typically channel one of them into his whip at the beginning of the day and in between encounters. However, he also has the option to take a move action to channel mid-combat if need be. He can even channel beneficial spells, delivering a bear's endurance or the like to an underling from 15 feet away, literally whipping them into shape.

Take note that a traditional attack is not required to deliver the spell--the touch attack to initiate a trip attempt works just fine and is much more reliable, giving Kash some leeway to use Combat Expertise for extra AC.

Naturally, Kash is still a Cleric too, and he can cast all the standard cleric spells up to 4th level, plus dominate person, suggestion, and black tentacles. Kash's Ordained Champion levels also let him spontaneously cast War domain spells as a swift action, letting him abuse the action economy with a quickened spiritual weapon or give himself a big buff to Strength with a quickened divine power.

Lastly, Kash takes a level of Warblade before going into Lasher, rather than losing a point of BAB by continuing as a Cleric. Warblade gives him access to more tactical options with Disarming Strike and Sapphire Nightmare Blade. The former pairs nicely with a whip, and the latter flat-foots a target. Right now all that does is lower their AC, but it will become much more relevant in a few levels. Iron Heart Surge is an all-around useful maneuver that lets Kash shrug off anything that might disable him, and Bolstering Voice represents the effect of his intimidating presence on his underlings--they're too afraid of him to be afraid of anyone else. (Note that Kash also takes Martial Study for Action Before Thought, which replaces a Reflex save with a concentration check. The feat is necessary in order to get concentration as a Lasher class skill, but it has to be taken before the Warblade level so as to avoid becoming a Warblade maneuver known; otherwise, he wouldn't be able to ready all his maneuvers at the same time.)
Kash has devoted himself to the art of the whip. Let's take a look at the class features he's gaining as a Lasher.

Whip sneak attack: On its own, an extra 2d6 damage is not very exciting, but with the Sickening Strike feat, Kash can turn it into a nasty no-save debuff that, incidentally, also gives the target -2 on opposed trip and disarm rolls, and on saves against any channeled spells. Sapphire Nightmare Blade makes it simple and easy to catch the opponent flat-footed to turn it on, and Vae School capitalizes even further by tacking on a free trip attempt.
Close combat, wound, and whip lash: These three features combine to completely remove the need for a secondary weapon, removing all the normal drawbacks of the whip. Now, for example, if an enemy ends up adjacent to Kash somehow, he can channel a command spell through a trip attack at point-blank range without provoking an attack of opportunity, order them to flee, and smack them with his own opportunity attack when they try and scramble to their feet. Enabling flanking is also very relevant for sneak attacks.
Improved trip: Oh yes, Kash has definitely been looking forward to this feat for quite a few levels. Tripping already provides touch attacks for spell-channeling, gives the spiritual weapon +4 to hit, recharges Warblade maneuvers, locks enemies down, and so on, but Improved Trip makes it do all those things even better while throwing in an extra attack for free. It's also a requirement for the aforementioned Vae School.
Third hand: Mage Hand is for chumps. Kash can easily make the DCs for this ability with his base Strength of 16 and one-point-shy-of-full BAB.
Crack of fate: Kash isn't always going to be full attacking, but he has enough BAB to dish out iteratives when he needs to. The extra attack combos well with sneak attack and lashing whip, and should come up often enough when recharging Warblade maneuvers.
Lashing whip: The marginal damage boost is unexciting, coming this late, but Kash will take it for what it's worth. It's icing on the Lasher cake.

Also, his Law Devotion bonus is now fully powered at +7, which is pretty substantial.
At level 20, Kash has finished all 10 levels of Lasher.

Improved disarm: Like improved trip, this is something Kash has been looking forward to. He could already disarm, but now he's doing it with +4, and he already has the Strength and BAB to do it very effectively. It works with Disarming Strike. Not only that, but he can use a move action to snatch the item into his own hand--another way to flaunt his dominance and brutally humiliate his enemy. Hextor would approve. And it has non-combat applications; sleight of hand, eat your heart out!
Stunning snap: This is simply a very powerful ability, and Kash is well-positioned to take advantage of it. He can cast divine power to increase the DC by 3 and use Sickening Strike to give the target -2 on their save, and if the stun goes off, he can capitalize either with a barrage of sneak attacks or by collapsing onto another target with his minions while the first enemy is disabled.
Crack of doom: See crack of fate. With divine power, Kash ends up getting all the iteratives, and can dish out lots of sneak attack damage. Law Devotion compensates for the -4 penalty, and remember, the initial attacks are (hopefully) knocking them prone to drop their AC by 4.
Death spiral: An AoE stun with a scaling DC based on an attack roll...that's pretty much time stop, right? Death spiral synergizes nicely with the shiny new blindsight that Kash picks up from his level 18 feat, since it works regardless of concealment, so knowing the enemy's location is all he needs. And again, Kash has kept his BAB and other attack bonuses high enough to make the save DC very difficult to beat.

It is technically possible to use the Warblade's adaptive style to retrain Weapon Focus (Flail) into Weapon Focus (Whip). I didn't end up going this route as it felt inelegant and...well, a little ungrateful. That Weapon Focus feat is a gift from Hextor. It seems rude to toss it back. Some DMs might also object to losing the requirement for Ordained Champion. But if you did use adaptive style to qualify for Lasher, you'd have an extra feat slot, which could be spent on something like Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight, another Martial Study, etc.

"But isn't it against the spirit of Ordained Champion to use a different weapon than the one you qualified for the class with?" Not so! While Hextor officially has only one favored weapon because, well, that's how favored weapons work, he's also closely associated with other weapons of the same group, including the heavy flail, dire flail, spiked chain, and, yes, the whip. (It's certainly hard to argue that it's not in flavor with Hextor's philosophy.) And if you use the weapon group (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm#) variant rules, they even share the same Weapon Focus, which, by the way, would also save you a feat slot.

If your DM is kind enough to waive Ordained Champion's deity restrictions, Al-Ishtus, a scorpion god from Sandstorm, offers the War domain and has the whip as his favored weapon, which would save two feats! Screws with the fluff some, but hey, feats.

Vae School has ties to House Vae, the drow clan known for their control of the slave trade. (Kash is of course totally in favor of slavery.) If House Vae doesn't exist in your setting, it's not implausible that another group of slavers would use the same technique.
In order of appearance:
Expanded Psionics Handbook: Autohypnosis skill
Complete Champion: Law Devotion, Ordained Champion
Complete Divine: Domination domain
Races of Destiny: Dread Tyranny
Tome of Battle: Martial Study, Warblade, Martial Stance
Sword and Fist: Lasher
Drow of the Underdark: Vae School, Sickening Strike

Zaq

2014-09-28, 12:55 PM

Lots of good entries this round. I was surprised to see only a single Pyrokineticist. I was tinkering with something using Cryokineticist (just because surely everyone was expecting a Pyrokineticist, so a Cryokineticist would be perfectly obtuse), but Cryokineticist is just a really, really bad class, so it never went anywhere. And I didn't think of anything else that was actually interesting, so I didn't enter. Looking at the batch, I'm glad I didn't half-ass something, because I would have ended up embarrassed. Kudos to all who entered!

Venger

2014-09-28, 02:10 PM

Well crap.

I thought I had more time to enter. My fault for not reading the submission time correctly.

I'm in the same boat here. I may wind up judging.

Ah well. The other LX is still open for a bit.

I turned mine in a couple days ago, but I also thought that the deadline was for 9:59 PM GMT, since every contest before now's had a deadline some time in the evening.

chair, for next contest, would it be possible for you to indicate AM/PM so chefs don't think they have an extra 12 hours and are accidentally tardy? most of us don't use military time, so aren't in the habit of assuming that you necessarily mean AM.

Heliomance

2014-09-28, 03:00 PM

chair, for next contest, would it be possible for you to indicate AM/PM so chefs don't think they have an extra 12 hours and are accidentally tardy? most of us don't use military time, so aren't in the habit of assuming that you necessarily mean AM.

Ah, sorry - cultural misunderstanding. It's in common use in the UK, I forgot that the US pretty much only uses it for the military.

Regardless, another late entry!

Devo
CN Daeklyr Half-Blood Psychic Rogue 5/Acetokineticist 4/Lasher 10
Stats
Str 18 (Increase at 12, 16, and 20)
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 14 (Increase at 4 and 8)
Wis 14
Cha 14
Backstory
"I seen a lot of men with whips. Most of them are damn fools who get themselves killed the first time they meet a man with a blade. A few have the skill and moxie to make it into a real weapon. Hell, I've even seen a feller or two who managed to make a whip outta fire with his mind. Yep, I've seen a lot of things. But I ain't never, and I mean never seen a feller who's so plain rock-stupid to use two whips." - Abel aka "Big Rex", Rancher and Whip expert.
Build

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Psychic Rogue 1
+0
+2
+0
+0
Autohypnosis 4, Balance 4, Concentration 4, Climb 4, Craft (alchemy) 1, Craft (leatherworking) 2, Jump 1, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Use Psionic Device 4, Use Rope 2, Tumble 4
Combat Expertise
Sneak Attack +1d6, Trapfinding

2nd
Psychic Rogue 2
+1
+0
+3
+0
Autohypnosis 5, Balance 5, Concentration 5, Climb 5, Jump 3, Tumble 5, Use Psionic Device 5

Evasion

3rd
Psychic Rogue 3
+2
+1
+3
+1
Autohypnosis 6, Concentration 6, Climb 6, Knowledge (Local) 1, Tumble 6, Use Psionic Device 6
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip)

4th
Psychic Rogue 4
+3
+1
+4
+1
Autohypnosis 7, Concentration 7, Climb 7, Tumble 7, Use Psionic Device 7, Use Rope 5

Sneak Attack +2d6

5th
Psychic Rogue 5
+3
+1
+4
+1
Autohypnosis 8, Concentration 8, Climb 8, Escape Artist 1, Jump 5, Tumble 8, Use Psionic Device 8

Danger Sense

6th
Acetokineticist 1
+3
+3
+6
+1
Whip Climber, Concentration 9, Climb 9
Weapon Focus (Acid Lash)
Acid Lash

7th
Psychic Rogue 6
+4
+4
+7
+2
Autohypnosis 10, Concentration 10, Climb 10, Tumble 10, Use Psionic Device 10

8th
Acetokineticist 2
+5
+5
+8
+2
Concentration 11, Climb 11, Jump 7, Psicraft 1

Acid Adaptation, Acid Strike

9th
Acetokineticist 3
+6/+1
+5
+8
+3
Acrobatic Backstab, Concentration 12, Tumble 12,
Martial Study (Distracting Ember)
Bolt of Acid

10th
Acetokineticist 4
+7/+2
+6
+9
+3
Back On Your Feet, Concentration 13, Tumble 13

Acid Weapon

11th
Lasher 1
+8/+3
+6
+11
+3
Nimble Stand, Escape Artist 2, Spot 1, Tumble 14

Whip Sneak Attack +1d6, Close Combat, Wound, Whip Lash

12th
Lasher 2
+9/+4
+6
+12
+3
Escape Artist 4, Spot 3, Tumble 15
Vae School
Improved Trip, Third Hand

13th
Lasher 3
+10/+5
+7
+12
+4
Escape Artist 7, Spot 5

Crack of Fate

14th
Lasher 4
+11/+6/+1
+7
+13
+4
Escape Artist 8, Spot 9

Lashing Whip

15th
Lasher 5
+12/+7/+2
+7
+13
+4
Escape Artist 9, Spot 13
Staggering Strike
Whip Sneak Attack +2d6

16th
Lasher 6
+13/+8/+3
+8
+14
+5
Escape Artist 10, Spot 17

Improved Disarm

17th
Lasher 7
+14/+9/+4
+8
+14
+5
Escape Artist 13, Spot 20

Stunning Snap

18th
Lasher 8
+15/+10/+5
+8
+15
+5
Escape Artist 17, Spot 21
Knockdown
Crack of Doom

19th
Lasher 9
+16/+11/+6/+1
+9
+15
+6
Escape Artist 21, Spot 22

Whip Sneak Attack +3d6

20th
Lasher 10
+17/+12/+7/+2
+9
+16
+6
Clarity of Vision, Escape Artist 23, Spot 23

Death Spiral

Powers
Powers Known:
1st: Disable, Entangling Ectoplasm, Defensive Precognition
2nd: Concealing Amorpha, Wall Walker
PP: 1st:0*, 2nd:1, 3rd:2, 4th:4, 5th:6, 6th-20th:8
*Not counting bonus PP from Int

Level 5
We’re starting things nice and simple with psionic rogue. The powers you get are mainly defensive in nature, so they’ll be useful for most of your career. I’ve prioritized Concealing Amorpha over Wall Walker, but either is useful (remember you can walk on a wall out of reach of foes and whip them). You don’t technically gain proficiency with acid lash or the tentacle whip, so the feat is required. A clawed gauntlet or throwing scarab will suit your Symbiont needs for the time being, you might be able to swing getting acid strike (hand afire replacement) to apply to it, but some DMs will likely say no.

Level 10
Acetokineticist is the acid variant on pyrokineticist, basically just changing all the energy type. Its unclear whether you can use things like trip with the acid lash, but it’s not a huge difference either way. The big game changer here is tentacle whip, which comes online at level 10. The tentacle whip is a symbiont graft that functions as a whip, but with dex poison every hit. As a weapon it qualifies for acid weapon, and the bonus on trip attempts will help.

Note that because you cannot drop the tentacle whip, if you fail the trip attempt you can be tripped. Back on your feet helps in the cases where this happens. TWFing with the acid lash and tentacle whip is a viable option, because the tentacle whip negates all off-hand penalties, and the acid lash is against touch AC, which often more than accounts for the main hand penalty. Distracting Ember means you can flank basically by yourself, and the feat restores Tumble as a class skill.

Level 15 (Sweet Spot)
Now things get nasty. Acrobatic backstab renders a target flatfooted, which means they’re a viable target for Vae School, where a strike also counts as a trip attempt. The sneak attack damage that results is great, but better is staggering strike, which means that once they get up (provoking an AoO and using up a move action) they can’t do anything else, making for a great one-two punch. Crack of Fate alongside TWFing gives you many options for your SA needs. Note that the acid lash deals pure acid damage, so any SA on it are also acid, which is a pretty rare type to resist.

Level 20
The last nice bits are all online. Knockdown can kick in easily on nearly all of your strikes, meaning any opponent should be down after a full round of TWFing (especially with Crack of Doom). Stunning Snap is another lovely addition, because as you remember, stunned characters lose Dex to AC, so they become targets for sneak attack, and also for Vae school, in the case of a foe who’s too tough to easily get 10 damage on. Death Spiral should be used as a panic button when things get too difficult and can’t be solved by any powers or class features, but if it’s the end of the adventuring day and you don’t think you see any more encounters it’s still rewarding to unwind and Death Spiral.

Sources
Psychic Rogue: web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b)
Acetokinecist: web enhancement
Skill Tricks: Complete Scoundrel
Half- Daelkyr: Magic of Eberron
Tentacle Whip: Eberron Campaign Setting
Martial Study: Tome of Battle
Vae School: Drow of the Underdark
Staggering Strike: Complete Adventurer
Knockdown: Sword and Fist
Pyrokineticist, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Combat Expertise, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus: srd (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e)

WhamBamSam

2014-09-28, 03:58 PM

I'm surprised we didn't see more Blood in the Water or Stormguard Warrior with all the attacks the SI gives you to charge them up. The main idea that I didn't have time to write up was Warblade 5/Lasher 10/Warblade +5 doing exactly that with Scorpion Tail Whips filled with Black Lotus Extract he made with Hidden Talent (Psionic Minor Creation).

I also kicked around a Human Factotum 8/Swordsage 2/Lasher 10 build whose schtick was jacking up the DC on Death Spiral then CDGing everyone with Cunning Surge+Death Blow, but ended up scrapping it because Death Spiral was only 1/day.

Piggy Knowles

2014-09-28, 05:23 PM

I'm surprised we didn't see more Blood in the Water or Stormguard Warrior with all the attacks the SI gives you to charge them up. The main idea that I didn't have time to write up was Warblade 5/Lasher 10/Warblade +5 doing exactly that with Scorpion Tail Whips filled with Black Lotus Extract he made with Hidden Talent (Psionic Minor Creation)..

My kalashtar Warblade 10/Lasher 10 that I mentioned upthread had planned to use Stormguard Warrior... but again, was quickly abandoned for its similarities to Urpriest's dervish build.

Muggins

2014-09-28, 07:35 PM

We have 11 main builds (including one from the chairman, which will not be eligible for placing).
Jacamo: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176108&postcount=129) Human, Jester 6/Acolyte of the Ego 7/Lasher 7
H.W. Jones Jr: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176111&postcount=130) Human, Fighter 5/Lasher 10/Occult Slayer 2/Pious Templar 3
Burt Macklin: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176113&postcount=131) Gnome, Bard 2/Battle Dancer 2/Warblade 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Lasher 10
Jaya "Salamander" Flametongue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176116&postcount=132) Xeph, fighter 4/Warblade 1/Pyrokineticist 4/Lasher 10/Swordsage 1
Serket the Pyramid Keeper: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176123&postcount=133) Human, Ranger 2/Paladin of Tyranny 3/Scorpion Heritor 4/Master of Masks 1/Lasher 10
Casen Murchadh, the Mind Flayer: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176125&postcount=134) Kalashtar, Psychic Warrior 7/Lasher 10/Exotic Weapon Master 3
Krad, the Mad Strangler: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176126&postcount=135) Daelkyr Half-Blood, Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Lasher 10/Soul Eater 5
Ookoobey: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176129&postcount=136) Venerable Dragonwrought Feral Changeling Wyrm of War, Swordsage 5/Warblade 2/Warshaper 2/Lasher 10
Leopold the Liberator: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176134&postcount=137) Catfolk, Duskblade 5/Lasher 10/Unseen Seer 4
Itse Ruoskia: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176137&postcount=138) Human, Cleric 5/Maiden of Pain 2/Divine Agent 3/Lasher 10
Maenigo Antoya: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176139&postcount=139) Human, Spellthief 10/Lasher 10
Note: Burt Macklin's build doesn't state a race, but he has the Gnome Bard substitution level.

We also have a couple of late entries.
Kash, the Tyrant: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176906&postcount=146) Human, Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 5/Warblade 1/Lasher 10
Devo: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18177689&postcount=149) Daelkyr Half-Blood, Psychic Rogue 6/Acetokinecist 4/Lasher 10

Diversity Breakdown
Human: 6
Daelkyr Half-Blood: 2
Xeph: 1
Kalashtar: 1
Catfolk: 1
Gnome: 1
"Changeling": 1

Fighter: 3
Warblade: 3
Swordsage: 2
Cleric: 2
Jester: 1
Bard: 1
Battle Dancer: 1
Ordained Champion: 1
Psychic Rogue: 1
Pyrokineticist*: 1
Acetokineticist*: 1
Spellthief: 1
Duskblade: 1
Unseen Seer: 1
Warshaper: 1
Barbarian: 1
Soul Eater: 1
Psychic Warrior: 1
Paladin of Tyranny: 1
Ranger: 1
Acolyte of the Ego: 1
Occult Slayer: 1
Pious Templar: 1
Scorpion Heritor: 1
Master of Masks: 1
Maiden of Pain: 1
Divine Agent: 1

*The Acetokineticist is a variant Pyrokineticist from the Mind's Eye articles.

OMG PONIES

2014-09-28, 09:16 PM

I also kicked around a Human Factotum 8/Swordsage 2/Lasher 10 build whose schtick was jacking up the DC on Death Spiral then CDGing everyone with Cunning Surge+Death Blow, but ended up scrapping it because Death Spiral was only 1/day.

Hmm, inspired at all by a similar idea I had for the Justiciar round? :smalltongue:

Note: Burt Macklin's build doesn't state a race, but he has the Gnome Bard substitution level.

Burt's entry does specify Race: Gnome.

WhamBamSam

2014-09-28, 09:50 PM

Hmm, inspired at all by a similar idea I had for the Justiciar round? :smalltongue:Indeed. That idea is the only reason I know about the Death Blow feat at all. I was also thinking about Factotum as a class for jacking up the Death Spiral save DC, and it just sort of all came together. It probably would've done alright had I submitted it, but I was a bit busy this week. Maybe I'll find time to put together one of my ideas for Acolyte of the Ego.

Muggins

2014-09-28, 10:22 PM

Burt's entry does specify Race: Gnome.
Gah, hidden in the Code tags! My one weakness!

Deadline

2014-09-28, 11:14 PM

Muggins

2014-09-29, 12:21 AM

My unsubmitted idea was a non-psionic thri-kreen who when went into Dervish (Whip and Whip Dagger are slashing weapons) before jumping into Lasher. He took Flay Foe (from Champions of Ruin) to get extra damage with all those extra attacks (Multiweapon fighting with OTWF), and used some swordsage maneuvers to guarantee sneak attacks.

The other two ideas were a "little Balor" half fiend Crusader/Pyrokineticist/Lasher and another monster critter that used its natural weapons to count as whips. Nothing really called to me though.
I did something similar, but with either Warmind (for Sweeping Strike) or the Multiheaded template (for Superior Multiweapon fighting). There were only so many things I could do with 14 attacks per round, though, and I didn't feel like they were terribly reflective of the Secret Ingredient.

Since I didn't end up getting my build in, I might turn to judging. I must say that I was expecting far more strength-based builds than we ended up getting. :smalltongue:

Troacctid

2014-09-29, 02:04 AM

And it looks like only two builds forgot about the BAB prerequisite on Exotic Weapon Proficiency! Out of...uh, six where it would have mattered. Could be worse.

Heliomance

2014-09-29, 03:09 AM

OMG PONIES

2014-09-29, 08:17 AM

Please note: The judging deadline is also in 24 hour time, and therefore refers to the morning! I chose it because it's a time I know I'll be free to make time-consuming posts.

Ponies, your spreadsheet is out of date! Hasn't been updated since LVIII :smallfrown:

Aye, as I'm still pondering just what to do with the non-numerical Round LIX, and then that quagmire of having two rounds named "LX." I'm currently considering posting LIX without any scores at all (just a link to the judging), then following up with LXs and LXz to highlight our diversity in spelling.

Venger

2014-09-29, 08:39 AM

Aye, as I'm still pondering just what to do with the non-numerical Round LIX, and then that quagmire of having two rounds named "LX." I'm currently considering posting LIX without any scores at all (just a link to the judging), then following up with LXs and LXz to highlight our diversity in spelling.

that definitely seems like the best way to go about it.

dysprosium

2014-09-29, 08:39 AM

Aye, as I'm still pondering just what to do with the non-numerical Round LIX, and then that quagmire of having two rounds named "LX." I'm currently considering posting LIX without any scores at all (just a link to the judging), then following up with LXs and LXz to highlight our diversity in spelling.

You could also mark them LX(H) and LX(K) with those letters representing the Chairman of that round.

Sian

2014-09-29, 10:02 AM

Venger

2014-09-29, 10:49 AM

{{Scrubbed}}

yeah. by "most of us," I was just referring to the fraction of the board that cooks in iron chef contests since it's largely a stable group of perhaps two dozen posters with occasional new people mixed in. many of these posters are american/canadian and use 12 hour time.

of course for the world as a whole, 24 hour time is more common since it's much less ambiguous in most cases.

Sian

2014-09-29, 11:13 AM

Venger

2014-09-29, 11:16 AM

{{Scrubbed}}

going mostly from ponies' hall of records and my own experience cooking in two dozen+ iron chefs over the years.

Deadline

2014-09-29, 11:24 AM

going mostly from ponies' hall of records and my own experience cooking in two dozen+ iron chefs over the years.

It's pretty common from what I've seen as well, although I've only been involved since Bladesinger.

Is there a reason that asking for clarification on the time has got you all wound up Sian? Because it seemed a pretty reasonable request to me. It's not like we're asking folks to spell optimization differently or drive on the right side of the road. :smallwink:

It's a forum that reaches across the globe, there are bound to be cultural differences and misunderstandings based on them.

Sian

2014-09-29, 11:42 AM

It's pretty common from what I've seen as well, although I've only been involved since Bladesinger.

Is there a reason that asking for clarification on the time has got you all wound up Sian? Because it seemed a pretty reasonable request to me. It's not like we're asking folks to spell optimization differently or drive on the right side of the road. :smallwink:

It's a forum that reaches across the globe, there are bound to be cultural differences and misunderstandings based on them.

Its the underlying assumption that everyone should do it the american way that bugs me. Exactly because its a forum that reaches across the globe with cultural differences.

Deadline

2014-09-29, 11:54 AM

Its the underlying assumption that everyone should do it the american way that bugs me. Exactly because its a forum that reaches across the globe with cultural differences.

Well, feel free to ignore any cultural differences from "america" (is that North, South, or Central?), I suppose. That will certainly help you keep the moral highground. Especially when berating people for asking for clarification based on cultural differences. :smalltongue:

I thought the 12 hour clock was a pretty standard thing in English speaking countries, has that changed dramatically recently? (Edit - The reason that is relevant is that Heliomance is English)

Also, didn't the ancient Romans use a 12 hour cycle? Please, won't someone think of the ancient Romans? Optimisicvs will miss the submission deadline often if you don't specify that it's in the morning! :smallwink:

Edit - And a quick check of the settings for this forum seem to only offer the AM/PM time option, rather than the 24 hour clock. Does anyone know of a way to change that? Or are we simply stuck with a 12 hour clock for one, and a 24 hour clock for the other? How will we deal with this madness and confusion?!

Heliomance

2014-09-29, 12:05 PM

I thought the 12 hour clock was a pretty standard thing in English speaking countries, has that changed dramatically recently? (Edit - The reason that is relevant is that Heliomance is English)

We use both interchangeably. Personally I tend to favour 12 hour when speaking and 24 hour when writing.

Deadline

2014-09-29, 12:10 PM

We use both interchangeably. Personally I tend to favour 12 hour when speaking and 24 hour when writing.

We've got a similar thing in the U.S., although the latter is used predominantly in the military, or in a family filled mostly with current or former military personnel.

And lest I be inadvertently insensitive (due to cultural differences), let me try to make it clear:

Sian, I'm only giving you a hard time right now. I mean no offense, and hope you are taking my comments in the light-hearted mood they are intended in. :smallsmile:

KrimsonNekros

2014-09-29, 01:14 PM

Gah just had to do writeups, but unfortunately work got in the way. Here's what i had though.

CN Human Female Rogue 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Battle Dancer 5/ Lasher 10
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111031113459/arkhamcity/images/thumb/1/11/ArkhamCityRenderCatwoman2.jpg/375px-ArkhamCityRenderCatwoman2.jpg
Abilities:

Strength Dexterity Constitution Intelligence Wisdom Charisma Reason
8 15 8 16 12 16 32-point buy
8 16 8 16 12 16 4th
8 16 8 16 12 17 8th
8 16 8 16 12 18 12th
8 16 8 16 12 19 16th
8 16 8 16 12 20 16th

Build:

Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st Rogue 0 0 2 0 Balance (Dex) 4, Bluff (Cha) 4, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 4, Disable Device(Int) 4, Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 2, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 4, Open Lock (Dex) 4, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 4, Tumble (Dex) 2, Use Rope (Dex) 4 Able Learner, EWP (Whip)) Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding 2nd Swashbuckler 1 2 2 0 Balance (Dex) 5, Bluff (Cha) 4, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 5, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 4, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 5, Open Lock (Dex) 4, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 4, Tumble (Dex) 4, Use Rope (Dex) 5 Weapon Finesse 3rd Swashbuckler 2 3 2 0 Balance (Dex) 6, Bluff (Cha) 4, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 6, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 6, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 6, Open Lock (Dex) 4, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 4, Tumble (Dex) 6, Use Rope (Dex) 6 Weapon Focus (Whip) Grace +1, 4th Swashbuckler 3 3 3 1 Balance (Dex) 7, Bluff (Cha) 4, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 7, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 7, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 7, Open Lock (Dex) 4, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 6, Tumble (Dex) 7, Use Rope (Dex) 7 Insightful Strike 5th Battle Dancer 4 3 5 1 Balance (Dex) 8, Bluff (Cha) 4, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 8, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 8, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 8, Open Lock (Dex) 4, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 8, Tumble (Dex) 8, Use Rope (Dex) 8 AC Bonus, Unarmed Strike 6th Battle Dancer 5 3 6 1 Balance (Dex) 9, Bluff (Cha) 5, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 9, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 9, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 9, Open Lock (Dex) 4, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 9, Tumble (Dex) 9, Use Rope (Dex) 9 Combat Reflexes Dance of reckless bravery 7th Lasher 6 3 8 1 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 10, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 10, Open Lock (Dex) 4, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 9, Tumble (Dex) 10, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Whip sneak attack Whip sneak attack +2d6 , close combat, wound, whip lash 8th Lasher 7 3 9 1 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 1, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 11, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 11, Open Lock (Dex) 4, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 11, Tumble (Dex) 11, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Improved Trip Third hand 9th Lasher 8 4 9 2 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 2, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 12, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 12, Open Lock (Dex) 5, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 12, Tumble (Dex) 12, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Expert Tactician Crack of fate 10th Battle Dancer 9 5 9 3 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 3, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 13, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 13, Open Lock (Dex) 8, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 13, Tumble (Dex) 13, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Bonus speed +10 feet 11th Lasher 10 5 10 3 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 4, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 14, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 14, Open Lock (Dex) 9, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 14, Tumble (Dex) 14, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Lashing whip 12th Lasher 11 5 10 3 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 5, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 15, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 15, Open Lock (Dex) 11, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 15, Tumble (Dex) 15, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Daring Outlaw Sneak attack +4d6 13th Lasher 12 6 11 4 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 6, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 4, Jump (Str) 15, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 16, Open Lock (Dex) 12, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 16, Tumble (Dex) 16, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Improved Disarm 14th Battle Dancer 13 6 12 4 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 7, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 7, Jump (Str) 15, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 17, Open Lock (Dex) 14, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 17, Tumble (Dex) 17, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Dance of the vexing snake 15th Lasher 14 6 12 4 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 8, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 4,Hide (Dex) 8, Jump (Str) 15, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 18, Open Lock (Dex) 15, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 18, Tumble (Dex) 18, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Supernatural Instincts Stunning snap 16th Lasher 15 6 13 4 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 9, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 5,Hide (Dex) 9, Jump (Str) 15, Listen (Wis) 4, Move Silently (Dex) 19, Open Lock (Dex) 15, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 19, Tumble (Dex) 19, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Crack of doom 17th Lasher 16 7 13 5
Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 10, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 5,Hide (Dex) 10, Jump (Str) 15, Listen (Wis) 5, Move Silently (Dex) 20, Open Lock (Dex) 15, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 20, Tumble (Dex) 20, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Sneak attack +5d6 18th Battle Dancer 17 7 13 5 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 12, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 5,Hide (Dex) 15, Jump (Str) 15, Listen (Wis) 5, Move Silently (Dex) 20, Open Lock (Dex) 15, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 20, Tumble (Dex) 21, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Hold the Line 19th Lasher 18 7 14 5 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 5, Climb (Str) 15, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 5,Hide (Dex) 15, Jump (Str) 15, Listen (Wis) 7, Move Silently (Dex) 20, Open Lock (Dex) 15, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 20, Tumble (Dex) 22, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Death Spiral 20th Rogue 19 7 15 5 Balance (Dex) 10, Bluff (Cha) 8, Climb (Str) 15, Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) 10, Disable Device(Int) 5,Hide (Dex) 15, Jump (Str) 15, Listen (Wis) 15, Move Silently (Dex) 20, Open Lock (Dex) 15, Search (Int) 4,Spot (Wis) 20, Tumble (Dex) 23, Use Rope (Dex) 10 Evasion, Dodge +1

Sian

2014-09-29, 01:44 PM

the build i was playing around with was some version of Dark Lesser Drow Swashbuckler 3 / Hit'n'Run Sneak Attack Fighter 3 / Factorum 3 / Lasher 10 with Vae School and aiming at having an high enough Hide to be able to attack while hiding, going from these two citations

You can take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to hide while attacking, running, or charging.
[...]
If you’re successfully hidden with respect to another creature, that creature is flat-footed with respect to you. (Rules Compendium p92)

gaining Int and Dex on damage (which would also be sneak attack), while getting Int on my Trips.

But it felt way to obvious and frankly wasn't all that inspiring since i felt it would be to close to my Mountebank entry

kestrel404

2014-09-29, 01:51 PM

I ended up being very busy with RL for the past week or so, and could not finish my build. I had a rather straightforward Lasher idea, where I would simply maximize the utility of the Stun effect of Stunning Crack - by having a massive bonus to strength, and by being able to use it on multiple opponents at once:

Dragonborn (Heart) Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale - Monstrous Humanoid 3/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Lasher 10/War Hulk 4

Despite the War Hulk's lack of BAB, you still get +16 BAB, and strength score STARTED at 26 (at least, after RHD) making Awesome Blow an early-option feat. Using an Oversized Whip (and laughing at the -2 to attack rolls when it gives you +1.5 strength to damage and 2-for-1 power attack), you could then send someone 20-30 feat away (depending on how large size and whip reach interact - I hadn't gotten to looking that up) flying for 10' to land prone after dealing them 1d6+30 damage. And that's at level 4.

At level 16, you can use Death Spiral in conjunction with Mighty Blow (and it's a standard action - since Death Spiral doesn't specify what kind of attack it requires) to knock everyone within 15 feet away to be stunned, possibly helpless, and also prone. With a Belt of Battle, you can do this BEFORE attacking...

At level 20, when your Mighty Swing kicks in, you can stun 3 enemies per use of Stunning attack, since it's one attack that hits 3 enemies at a time. This can also be done on each attack of a full attack, meaning additional attacks that round are against stunned enemies, which is great.

Now, enough about the built that wasn't.

I intend to judge the existing builds. Will probably do so tomorrow night.

OMG PONIES

2014-09-29, 08:17 PM

that definitely seems like the best way to go about it.

Kid-tested, Venger approved!

You could also mark them LX(H) and LX(K) with those letters representing the Chairman of that round.

Hmm, also a possibility. Thoughts from others?

It's a forum that reaches across the globe, there are bound to be cultural differences and misunderstandings based on them.

Even if it didn't reach farther than down the street, there'd still be cultural differences. And it's the Internet, so you know there will always be misunderstandings :smallbiggrin:.

Its the underlying assumption that everyone should do it the american way that bugs me. Exactly because its a forum that reaches across the globe with cultural differences.

You're right; to combat ethnocentric assumptions we should also start posting in the most common language in the world. How's your Mandarin? :smalltongue:

We use both interchangeably.

Well that clears things up :smalltongue:.

the build i was playing around with was some version of Dark Lesser Drow Swashbuckler 3 / Hit'n'Run Sneak Attack Fighter 3 / Factorum 3 / Lasher 10 with Vae School and aiming at having an high enough Hide to be able to attack while hiding, going from these two citations...

I like the INT/DEX focus as well as the ability to add it to damage, but I'm afraid there's a kink in the hiding plans without Hide in Plain Sight:

You need cover or concealment to attempt a Hide check...If someone is observing you, even casually, you can’t hide.

I ended up being very busy with RL for the past week or so, and could not finish my build. I had a rather straightforward Lasher idea, where I would simply maximize the utility of the Stun effect of Stunning Crack - by having a massive bonus to strength, and by being able to use it on multiple opponents at once:

I toyed around with ways to stun multiple creatures at once, but I was concerned by the language regarding "a creature," "a foe," and "the opponent" that judges would rule strictly one target per stunning snap.

Despite the War Hulk's lack of BAB, you still get +16 BAB, and strength score STARTED at 26 (at least, after RHD) making Awesome Blow an early-option feat. Using an Oversized Whip (and laughing at the -2 to attack rolls when it gives you +1.5 strength to damage and 2-for-1 power attack), you could then send someone 20-30 feat away (depending on how large size and whip reach interact - I hadn't gotten to looking that up) flying for 10' to land prone after dealing them 1d6+30 damage. And that's at level 4.

Yikes, Awesome Blow with a reach weapon is awesome. However, before Lasher unlocks the whip's damage potential you'll be faced with the following problem:

It deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher.

So while you'll be decimating unarmored foes, anyone in armor will be able to shrug off your Awesome Whips. Also, on the question of how being larger affects your whip reach, it doesn't (based on the following):

The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack.

Thus, rather than doubling your natural reach, whips have a fixed reach of 15 ft.

I intend to judge the existing builds. Will probably do so tomorrow night.

This makes me one happy pony! :smallbiggrin:

Troacctid

2014-09-29, 08:39 PM

I toyed around with ways to stun multiple creatures at once, but I was concerned by the language regarding "a creature," "a foe," and "the opponent" that judges would rule strictly one target per stunning snap.

Plus, if you need to stun multiple targets, you have death spiral built right in. I mean come on.

OMG PONIES

2014-09-29, 08:41 PM

Plus, if you need to stun multiple targets, you have death spiral built right in. I mean come on.

True, though the 1/day limitation is a bit unpalatable.

Heliomance

2014-09-30, 05:26 AM

Sian

2014-09-30, 07:00 AM

I like the INT/DEX focus as well as the ability to add it to damage, but I'm afraid there's a kink in the hiding plans without Hide in Plain Sight:

Dark Template gives HiPS (and +8 Hide) so that wouldn't be an issue

OMG PONIES

2014-09-30, 07:41 AM

As regards builds we didn't do, I was considering a Binder, using Paimon. Unfortunately, I wasn't sure whether Dance of Death would work to hit enemies more than 5' away, and it also has that irritating clause about not working with any abilities that give you more attacks, making Crack of Fate/Doom worthless.

Yeah, gotta love the never-defined "any creature you move past." I'm now seeing why you posted that question in the Simple RAW Q&A thread.

Dark Template gives HiPS (and +8 Hide) so that wouldn't be an issue

Aha, missed the template on there, which gets rid of the observation problem. Granted, it doesn't function in natural daylight, so it's still not an always-on ability. Also, does that ability obviate the need for cover? I don't think so, especially when compared to the verbiage on similar abilities:

A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.
Hooray for WotC defining the same ability differently in different sources :smallmad:.

KingAtomsk

2014-10-01, 02:23 AM

I'm surprised we didn't see more Blood in the Water or Stormguard Warrior with all the attacks the SI gives you to charge them up...

The biggest problem with this is that you even with the Lasher ability, you only threaten adjacent squares with the whip, so the usefulness of Stormguard Warrior is quite limited. I know because I looked into doing a Thicket of Blades/Stormguard Warrior combo with my build.

Thurbane

2014-10-01, 02:59 AM

I'd like to give my honourable mention vote to Serket the Pyramid Keeper - love the flavour of this entry!

Amphetryon

2014-10-01, 07:24 PM

Sick as a dog since Thursday night, so I didn't get an entry in. This is probably fortunate for myself and another competitor, as we had similar ideas.

OMG PONIES

2014-10-02, 05:00 AM

Sick as a dog since Thursday night, so I didn't get an entry in. This is probably fortunate for myself and another competitor, as we had similar ideas.

Go and get better ASAP, Ponies' orders. Seriously though, hope you're on the mend soon.

Heliomance

2014-10-02, 09:18 AM

So many ideas for new ingredients! The fact that I can only give one a month is annoying...

dysprosium

2014-10-02, 09:38 AM

So many ideas for new ingredients! The fact that I can only give one a month is annoying...

I got the perfect solution for you then!

Be a day or two late with picking a new ingredient and make all of us wonder if you fell off the face of the earth. Then someone can "volunteer" to pick up the mantle of the Chairman and run with his/her own ingredient.

Except that the best part is that you would have already sent one of your many ideas to that "volunteer" beforehand.

Boom! Two ingredients. Two contests. One month.

Heliomance

2014-10-02, 09:40 AM

Incidentally, is the next thread LXI or LXII?

Amphetryon

2014-10-02, 09:43 AM

Incidentally, is the next thread LXI or LXII?

I'd call it LXII, for the sake of Ponies' tables.

sakuuya

2014-10-02, 09:44 AM

Incidentally, is the next thread LXI or LXII?

Every thread is LX from here on out.

Heliomance

2014-10-02, 09:48 AM

Every thread is LX from here on out.

I like this answer.

Venger

2014-10-02, 10:58 AM

as far as sybil goes I would... not like that as an ingredient. it's too hard to qualify for, none of your abilities do anything, and we'd all pretty much end up looking the same.

WhamBamSam

2014-10-02, 12:00 PM

as far as sybil goes I would... not like that as an ingredient. it's too hard to qualify for, none of your abilities do anything, and we'd all pretty much end up looking the same.How hard Sybil is to qualify for depends somewhat on what "innate" means. Obviously you don't get to just be a Factotum, but there are grey areas between that and full blown monster with RHD and LA and everything. I agree that its class abilities don't really do anything, though. Or rather it doesn't really do PC things. It's actually fairly trivial to optimize the class abilities, but doing so doesn't really seem to leave you with a PC. A sort of interesting NPC, but not a PC.

Venger

2014-10-02, 12:50 PM

Gemini476

2014-10-02, 01:01 PM

How hard Sybil is to qualify for depends somewhat on what "innate" means. Obviously you don't get to just be a Factotum, but there are grey areas between that and full blown monster with RHD and LA and everything. I agree that its class abilities don't really do anything, though. Or rather it doesn't really do PC things. It's actually fairly trivial to optimize the class abilities, but doing so doesn't really seem to leave you with a PC. A sort of interesting NPC, but not a PC.

I know of at least two LA+0 races that qualify for Sybil, but yeah that specific aspect would be pretty limited. Maybe a bit more limited than Dwarven Defender was, actually.

...I'd also say that it's possible to optimize a Sybil so that they can contribute to the party with their flawless divination skills, but their riddle mechanics are really weird when not controlled by a DM. Like, ridiculously so. And even when controlled by the DM it's one of those places where you need to use out-of-character knowledge and it tests the player rather than the character and yeah I don't even know.

They're also somewhat upstaged by a Wizard with Spontaneous Divination, but that's just par for the course for a PrC that doesn't advance anything else and yet tries to be a caster through lots of spell-like abilities.

WhamBamSam

2014-10-02, 01:03 PM

yeah, pretty much. does "innate" have any meaningful RAW definition? I don't remember.Not that I know of, and I sort of doubt it. I've never seen the terminology used outside of Savage Species which predates most of the things that could introduce ambiguity, and going through my pdf with ctrl+f didn't yield anything. You sort of just have to ask your DM.

kestrel404

2014-10-04, 01:17 PM

Wow. That was a lot of builds. Well, my kid is happy, since I wrote most of this at the park while she was playing.

Originality - I was half expecting a jester, since it shares proficiency with the whip with the bard. And I knew someone was going to take AotE because of the other IC thread. However, despite quite a few entries, no one else shares those things with you. Humans are dirt-common, of course, but I also won't ding you for that. The issue I have with this build's originality is the lack of flavor. You chose the 3 most boring morphic cadences, your bonus recitation feat could be interesting if you'd made ANY mention of using poisons on your whip, but you didn't, and you make no real justification for your build choices. Overall, despite using many individually interesting and original components, the build winds up being very blah. 3.0
Power - I just can't take this build seriously from a power perspective. You could have shuffled the feats around and gotten a LOT more mileage out of them - why isn't Power Attack a 1st level feat? You could have taken Truename Training at level 6 and gotten exactly as much use out of it - it explicitly gives you the cross-class skill ranks back when you take it. And there is absolutely no justification for taking 7 levels of Acolyte just to get a total of +9 insight over 3 attributes for a minute each. You could have done better with 7 levels of fighter. 1.0
Elegance - The symmetry in the build is very nice. I have to ask if it's really playable though - I'd think that someone actually trying to play this build would honestly get bored by it in a group. I can't really give this build full credit here, because it just feels...glued together and not really fitted together into a whole. 4.0
Use of Secret - Late entry, you don't get the capstone ability (which really is decent), and you don't really make any particular use of the classes abilities. Most of the chosen spells and abilities and feats do not significantly enhance the secret ingredient in any particular way beyond...using a whip. Yes, you take Rope Trick and Animate Rope as spells, but those are generally good spells even without the whip, and you don't even mention them in your writeup. Flay and Flay Foe are nice, though I think the Lunging Attack feat is a bit silly for as high a level as it's taken. 2.5

Originality - Oh look, an Indiana Jones Expy. Well, that's not necessarily a bad thing, given that he's probably the Lasher's primary source of inspiration. Occult Slayer and Pious Templare are both appropriate and well used - though one more than the other (but I'll get to that in Power). Fighter is, unfortunately, the obvious entry for Lasher, and very much used for exactly the same things you used it for - bonus feats to get EWP & WF in whip. Overall, you stuck to the theme you were going for better than most. 2.0
Power - This build is...average. You made decent feat choices, got what you could and took Lasher because you were focusing on using a whip. You probably would have done better with Flay Foe instead of Flay, and sticking with Occult Slayer to the end and taking Weapon Specialization insead of True Faith (or perhaps something...better) would have been a more useful choice. Overall, not useless, but could have been a lot more. 2.5
Elegance - You dipped into 2 prestige classes at the end to fit into the Indiana Jones movie cycle better. While interesting, this bends the character build a bit and makes it...much less elegant overall. You could have easily stuck with Occult Slayer to the end and remained true to the spirit of the character, or chosen something else entirely (like, say, 10 levels of Factotum) which would have been more elegant and better suited the character overall. 2.0
Use of Secret Ingredient - One thing you did right is to go with the strengths of the class. You built the character that the Lasher is really supposed to cater to. Unfortunately, you didn't really come up with any really creative uses for the ingredient, but you built a good character around the prestige class. 4.0

Originality - ... Warblade: -.5. Everything else: ROFLMAOSOSOhGodMySides. 5.0 (would give more if possible)
Power - Normally, melee characters start off at the low end of this curve. Burt turns reality on its head and then slams it into a wall at mach 1. If not for the fact that his reality defying skills limit him to line of sight and bard scrolls/wands, he would be freakishly powerful for a 'melee' character. Takes a bit to get going, and I think you forgot your 3rd level feat (I'll assume power attack, because it's in almost every other build), but by the end it's a guy who throws ropes at people and gets them to bounce back holding their weapons. 4.5
Elegance - There is a fair amount of dipping, and most GMs would look at the crazy and say, 'No.' It works, by raw and probably rai, but it's just a completely ridiculous concept that defies physics and shatters the suspension of disbelief in exactly the way that magic bypasses it while maintaining the illusion of plausibility. It's a good build, but the funny doesn't make up for it here. 3.0
Use of Secret Ingredient - OK, Lasher is a decent outlet for this character - but not his best option. I love the concept, I love the build, I just don't see why the build ends in 10 levels of Lasher, aside from it being the secret ingredient. You use it well, but it woulld have been better with less Lasher, so I can't give full marks on this. 4.0

Originality - The Lasher/Pyrokineticist angle has been done before - indeed, the only TO build of note that uses Lasher at all is also centered around the Fire Lash. Xeph is an interesting choice...but I wish you'd taken Xeph Celerity a lot earlier in the build, because there's no good justification for it before then. And of course, you've got both Fighter AND Warblade. Lots of good stuff, that other people also used because it was good. 3.0
Power - In this section, I'm going to assume you get your tricks to work the way you want them to. In which case, you're getting a lot of ranged-touch attacks per turn, many with sneak attack, and delivering decent damage (about on par with Warlock, since you can't two-hand the Fire Lash). You're using a lot of your feats to get dex-to-damage, though if you're using your full BAB on extra damage constantly those +1 to hit benefits are pretty nice (especially since you can't Enchant your weapon). Overall, a very nice combination of abilities and a grab-bag of tricks from your Warblade & Swordsage dips. 4.5
Elegance - And in this section, I'm going to point out the flaws in your argumentsbuild. The Fire Lash is not a whip. For the sake of this contest, the fire lash is a whip (though for games, that's up to the GM). It explicitly says you can apply 'any feats that apply to the use of a standard whip' - which means that Weapon Focus Whip & Exotic Weapon Proficiency Whip apply without the Warblade switching your feats. Which is good, because if you did that, you'd lose access to your Lasher class features, since you wouldn't qualify for the class anymore. Not so good is that Fire Lash says nothing about Class Features that apply to whips, and neither does it say that counts as a whip - just that it is a flame shaped like a whip. So You're going to be on shaky ground at best before when you start treating it as BOTH a Melee and a Ranged weapon. Dead eye applies to Ranged weapons - not ranged attacks made with Psionic projections, so this one is questionable. Essentially, you're picking and choosing what rules are going to apply to your character, and while they may all SEEM like they fit, most of them were designed to be incompatible, and most GMs will pick up on that. On top of that, you'll be taking multiclass penalties from level 5 on, which is always a pain. If you'd chosen Human, or any class with fighter as a favored class (there are a LOT of those, including the Psionic Duergar race) this wouldn't be an issue. Alongside the dips, and this is a really clumsy buildbit of a kludge from a rules standpoint. 2.5
Use of Secret Ingredient - Well, you're using all the levels, entry is only slightly delayed, and you've got interesting ideas on HOW to use the secret ingredient and why it's actually an important part of the build. That's pretty good. My only issue is that you're not doing a lot to utilize any of the class features individually, just taking advantage of them as they crop up - you don't have a high strength to take advantage of the stun attack, you're not really in need of the whip-enhancing capabilities of Lasher's first level. Overall, not bad. 4.0

Originality - Well, I wasn't expecting to see any scorpion-based presige classes, even if it is very fitting, and both Ranger and Paladin are interesting touches. I'm almost sad about the Master of Masks dip, because I was totally expecting to see that crop up. Still, this is a very original and interesting entry. 4.5
Power - Because of the Paladin dip, this build ended up being more than a bit MAD. Without the need for Cha, you could have bumped Con and Int more, and maybe gone with a more interesting race. Indeed, Ranger 5 with the spell-less ranger ACF would have been nice, or else an assassin dip or another level of Scorpion Heritor for Envenom weapon, to combo more with your save-debuff aura. Overall, the build is nice and has some synergy, but it lacks focus - it would have been better off with fewer levels of the Secret Ingredient, which is never a good sign. 3.5
Elegance - You've basically got 3 dips. No real mechanical issues, though if you ever choose to swap masks for the Assassin mask abilities, you're losing and awful lot of class features. About average. 3.0
Use of Secret Ingredient - The lasher fits thematically with the build, but it's a poor fit. This really wants to be a skill-focused combat-reflexes build. And if you'd be using the spiked chain, that would be great. But you've only got the 5' reach for AoOs, And you have to wait for 10th level to get that using the Whip - although you wait until 9th level before actually pulling one out of your...mask. If you'd found a way to make the Lasher work with a spiked chain, that would have gotten you full credit here. As it is, this is just an average use of the SI. 3.0

Originality - Psychic Warrior was something I half expected, but Soulbound Weapon was a clever twist. Exotic Weapon Master was also a likely candidate, but you were the only one to use it. Kalashtar is an interesting choice as well...though it could have been used to better effect here, where it seems to be treated as a feat-less human with an extra power point (most of the benefit of being Kalashtar is in their racial feats). Overall, an interesting combination of elements. 3.5
Power - I think the race was a poor choice for this build. I apparently failed to notice the real reason this build has Kalashtar - the bonus PP is per level, not just +1. So it's an overall good but not great choice for this build. Plus, you seem to be confused about how the bonus from Soulbound Weapon works - it's based on Psychic Warrior class level, not character level. Since you never take the 8th level of PW, you never get the +2 bonus on your called weapon, let alone the higher bonuses. Also, the attributes you have listed are above the standard 32 point buy, and your Wisdom score is your 4th highest stat, on a Wisdom-based manifester (just high enough to pick up tha 3rd level power) - overall, the build is very MAD. On top of that, you probably only needed two levels of Exotic Weapon Master - see Exotic Twin Weapon in Elegance. There is also the PP calculation column - not sure how you get the numbers there. You should be capped at 16pp + bonus (1/2 wis bonus * 7, round down) with changes only when Wis bonus goes up after level 7. The Vae School feat was a good catch, but probably not worth the Combat Expertise feat tax. Overall, it could have been a good bit better with a few tweaks, so I'm going to have to put this as a bit above average build despite the spellcasting capability. 4.0
Elegance - First, the Twin Exotic Weapon ability requires you to be wielding two of the same exotic LIGHT weapons. Unfortunately, the Whip is NOT a light weapon, so not only does that ability not apply, you're getting a -4 rather than a -2 on all attack rolls with TWF. Also, as I noted in the Power section, the Soulbound Weapon bonus on the called weapon ONLY uses Psychic Warrior class level. Aside from these errors, the build is quite elegant. 4.0
Use of Secret Ingredient - The idea is sound, though the implementation is a bit spotty. This was a good attempt to use Lasher but there isn't a huge amount of synergy between the different elements of the build. 3.5

Originality - Ah, the Tentacle Whip. A noble beast whose ultimate purpose in life is to grow out of someone's arm and be flung bodily into golems and fire elementals and tarrasks in the hopes that the other thing will break...No, it doesn't make a lot of sense, so it's a good thing the Daelkyr are all about madness and destruction. Comboing with Soul Eater is nice, and I'd give you props for Daelkyr Half-Blood if someone else hadn't also used it. I won't penalize for that here, though. Too bad about the fighter levels - you could have done better than fighter/barbarian (Duskblade!). Overall, an interesting build with some clever ideas. 3.5
Power - So, you're delivering negative levels on every attack, starting at level 10, at a range of 15 feet? Nice. Also, you may not have pointed it out directly, but you actually THREATEN within that entire 15' radius (tentacle whips DO NOT follow whip rules) - combat reflexes would have been great. You also missed some tricks by taking fighter instead of, say, something with class features and full BAB - like Duskblade or Hexblade. That said, the fact that you can iteratively attack for almost 10 negative levels/round before taking equipment & magic into account makes you ridiculously lethal against pretty much everything aside from constructs, undead, and prepared mages. Serious powerhouse build - and you should probably count your 'sweet spot' as levels 10-15, since by the end you're going to be running into a lot of things immune to level drain. Grading on the curve, you've probably got the outright strongest build. 5.0
Elegance - The issue is that, like the Pyromancer, what you're using isn't actually a whip. It's called a whip for short, but the Lasher class features are very clear that they apply to whips and whip-daggers. Nothing in the Tentacle Whip description says it counts as a whip, and in truth it doesn't act anything like a whip aside from the 15' reach. It threatens the area it can attack, it can attack adjacent targets without provoking, there are no issues with dealing damage to armored opponents - the tentacle whip really isn't a whip. Of course, that's somewhat debatable, and most GMs would probably count it, but it's an issue. For this contest it counts as a whip, but that may not be true for all GMs. Soul Eater is also one of those classes a lot of GMs object to, for the simple reason of what it's capable of on a build like this. That one level dip at level 10 makes you more lethal than a fully optimized spellcaster in the majority of encounters. And I'm just not sure at all why you lead off with 1 level of barbarian - the Rage symbiont (Gutworm from FF) would have been a much better choice, given the nature of the build. Overall, a nicely built class whose effectiveness depends entirely somewhat dependent on the whims of the GM. 3.5
Use of Secret Ingredient - Well, given what you're capable of, you get a lot more out of those extra attacks than most builds who are just doing damage. Unfortunately, because of the nature of your main weapon, you may not may not get those bonus attacks, and you're not really relying on Lasher's primary abilities (making the whip not suck so much) after level 10. The sneak attack is essentially meaningless, your're at least doing your best to optimize strength even if you're not focusing on it, and you get quite a bit out of that capstone - if your Tentacle Whip counts as a whip. Because of this ambiguity, I can't really give high marks in this section, so overall I'm going to go with 3.5.

Originality - OK. It's kobold cheese. Like, you see this big ball of kobold cheese, and you slice into it expecting to find a kobold in the middle, and instead you find a grinning Grey alien who's mindscrewing the universe into believing it's a A DRAGONkobold. This is either the most audaciously cheesy build I've ever seen, or magnificently ironic. I am forced to penalize the originality here for the warblade dip, though I see why it was taken (mistakenly, see Elegance). 4.5
Power - Well, from a pure power perspective, this build is quite interesting. You've got a fair amount of the clasic Pounce-build feat chain, lots of strength, an interesting grab-bag of tricks from swordsage/warblade, some more tricks from Warshaper & Changeling, and the sheer mass of attacks you get on a full attack. This guy is just really good at what he does. 4.5
Elegance - No. I can't seen any GM not running a cheese-based game allowing this guy, even as a joke. Also, the Weapon Focus from swordsage is a class feature - 'you gain the benefits of' is not the same as 'you gain', so you can't use weapon aptitude to turn any of them into Weapon Focus (whip), so you don't actually qualify for the secret ingredient. And then you took a flaw. 0.
Use of Secret Ingredient - This guy isn't actually using the secret ingredient. You could add any prestige class that gives full BAB and get better results. Replace Lasher with something out of ToB, or just more warblade levels, and it would be at least as good. That said, it was taken to the end. 1.5

Originality - Aha! A catfolk duskblade! I did not see that coming. Unseen Seer is an interesting complement, but fits well with both the overall theme and the sneak attack gains - synergistic and interesting, no dips used by others, very original. 4.0
Power - There is so much potential here! But where's Catfolk Pounce? Using a familiar as a flanking buddy is OK, but stealth and surprise would probably have worked better, or working with someone else in the party, and wouldn't cost 2 feats for an almost-negligible combatant. Extra Spell: Enlarge? That's not helping much - it doesn't improve the reach on the whip. And as much as spells are nice, the ones you've got aren't doing a lot for you combat-wise, especially in the mid-late game. A lot of unused potential here. 2.0
Elegance - There is nothing wrong with the build from a mechanical standpoint. It has LA, which could be awkward in a game that starts from level 1, but otherwise works perfectly. 4.5
Use of Secret Ingredient - OK, it's a duskblade. Who specializes in using a whip. That's a bit of synergy - you get more range out of the whip, which is good. And a flanking buddy for sneak attack. And, that's as far as the synergy seems to go. Better than some, but not really what I'd call essential to the build. 3.5

Originality - A whip using cleric of the goddess of pain? Very nice. Not quite unique, but also not something I expected to see. I like how the fluff on this one is very much related to the crunch. 4.0
Power - Oh, this build is like a litany of missed opportunities! DMM: Persist is the first one - you've got Mystic Lash, the ONLY SPELL that creates a weapon which is 'wielded as a whip'! This one, as far as I can tell, is the only not-whip in the entire competition that explicitly counts as a whip! And it does ranged touch attacks! And it has a fixed (0 ft.) range! Persist it, and you'd have been absolute gold! As it is, you can cast it all of 4 times per day, for 7 round each, which is probably enough, but requires a buff-round in advance of combat. On top of that, you're losing a lot of caster levels for questionable benefits - Cleric 6/Maiden of Pain 4 probably would have done better, with CL 9 & 5th level spells, with more castings of Mystic Lash that last longer. The fear aura is nice, but Contact is the 'class feature' version of something that clerics are supposed to get anyway, based on fluff. Overall, It's got a lot of potential if played right, but it may well have been better off with only a few levels of the secret incredient, at most. 4.0
Elegance - Well, nothing wrong with this build. It does what it's intended to, and does it well. I'm going to have to count Maiden of Pain as a dip, despite the obvious benefits it provides. 4.0
Use of Secret Ingredient - This is one of those good/bad builds. It's good because I can really see why, for fluff reasons, Lasher was included. It works well as part of the build. It's bad, because it would have been BETTER just sticking with Maiden of Pain to the end, because Mystic Lash basically gives a lot of what Lasher does as a class, and Maiden of pain provides the Improved Trip and Improved Disarm feats when using a whip. I'm going to go with an average score here, because the ingredient was used well, but the build was inferior because of it. 3.0

Originality - Spellthief. Straight spellthief and nothing but the spellthief. That is refreshingly straightforward. Wish you'd gone for a more interesting race, but the Ancestral Relic is a very nice touch. 4.0
Power - Lasher is, quite obviously, a natural progression for a combat-oriented rogue. Moreso, for a rogue with a handful of spells, limited sneak attack, and looking for some new tricks, Lasher is right up their alley. I like the spell selection, you've got a LOT of options when it comes to using that sneak attack, and you're almost never going to have a hard time hitting the other guy even as you take penalties for using extra attacks. You're not really trying to be the main fighter, even though you've got a lot going for you in combat. Overall, excellent synergy between Lasher & Spellthief. 4.0
Elegance - This build is kind of like a platonic ideal. You don't use any fancy tricks to get extra stuff, or muck about with odd things to get more feats or access to strange prestige classes which will get you that one other thing to combo with. You just choose very potent feats with the few options you've got, go with a base class that synergizes well with Lasher, choose spells that do what you need, and generally use the class features as provided to good effect. Bravo. 5.0
Use of Secret Ingredient - This build does with synergy what most builds try for with combos. I think that the Ancestral Relic aspect ties the whole package together neatly to give you both a reason for being a Lasher and an extra bit of oomph to overcome the hurdle that is the whip itself. I can see how every part of Lasher is used for good effect over the course of this build. The only issue I have is that you could have left some of those spellthief levels for the end and prioritized the Lasher levels more - the additional BAB, combat feats & extra attacks would have more than made up for the loss of skill points & lower casting capacity. 4.5

Originality - An Ordained Champion of Hextor. Wasn't expecting that. Too bad about the warblade dip. 3.5
Power - Well, you start of quite nicely with a CoDZilla, and then you veer with a sharp turn into the secret ingredient...which takes a rampaging monster and tells him to use this fancy piece of celery as his primary tool of destruction. I suppose the extra attacks means you get more use out of Channel Spell - but it's kind of balanced by the fact that your Smite isn't as cool and you'd be wasting your limited spells (all the more precious because you don't get any more as you level lasher). Essentially, this is a very powerful build, that's basically hobbled by the secret ingredient. 3.0
Elegance - Well, it's pretty good from an elegance standpoint, although that Warblade dip is kind of awkward and you're not really going to be using that Weapon Focus (Flail) for much of anything. Overall, better than average. 3.5
Use of Secret Ingredient - The fluff is present for why Lasher is a good fit, but I can't see anyone who's got Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 5 suddenly deciding that he should be moving on to play a whip specialist. That's like the Wizard who decides that he's going to take up Fighter levels (not Arcane Knight - fighter) because he wants more combat feats. 2.0

Originality - Well, this is like a combination of the more interesting attempts at upgrading the whip and mixing them together. It's original, and new, and we've seen it already in this competition. Indeed, this build is very nearly a highlights reel of the elements I found interesting in the other builds - taken together, they yield an interesting result, and I won't overly penalize you just because you're the last build so I've seen most of the tricks already. 4.0
Power - Well, this is an interesting thing. You're making a TWF build without actually taking TWF. You make the argument that the Tentacle whip negates the off-hand penalties (it does) and that the Lash is a touch attack (it is), and all that means is that you're only at -8/-6 (I think) to all of your attacks that round, instead of -4/-4. More realistically, you're going to be covering your tentacle whip in an acid aura - which is nice, but not at the cost of 4 levels of psionic progression. There is also an overall lack of synergy with the powers chosen (granted, your options were kind of lackluster), and the feats are just not up to par at the levels they're taken. On the plus side, you do not actually have to worry about dropping your tentacle whip if disarmed - that's taken care of explicitly in the tripping part of 'improved attack' for tentacle whip. 2.0
Elegance - This is a fairly, but also kind of poorly put together. Neither the Fire Lash nor the Tentacle Whip really count as a whip for the purpose of lasher without a GM ruling. The build has a lot of tricks, but not a lot of natural synergy. 3.0
Use of Secret Ingredient - I can see how Lasher is very important and useful to this build. There's just the problem that the Fire Lash and Tentacle Whip may not work out in some games. So I'm going to call this one strictly average. 3.0

Heliomance

2014-10-04, 02:54 PM

We have our first dispute!

Casen Murchadh's PP is in part derived from Kalashtar race, who gain 1 pp/character level. Since Casen steps out of Psychic Warrior rather quickly, this was one of few ways to keep gaining PP even after progressing into two non-psionic prestige classes.

Also, I would like to note that the thread FAQs stated that if a weapon was described as a whip, it counted as one for the purposes of Lasher - penalising people for taking advantage of that seems a little unfair to me.

kestrel404

2014-10-04, 05:46 PM

We have our first dispute!

Also, I would like to note that the thread FAQs stated that if a weapon was described as a whip, it counted as one for the purposes of Lasher - penalising people for taking advantage of that seems a little unfair to me.

Ah, that's good to know (I don't know why that bit about the Kalashtar isn't part of the description of the race I looked up, but yeah, missed that). I also didn't know that the whip thing was a ruling made during the discussions - probably should have kept up, but that was why I didn't end up submitting a build in the first place. I'll go back and edit scores as appropriate. That's a +1 on the elegance ratings for the Pyro/aceto-kinetics & Daelkyr (Though I only penalized Devo once, so he only gets 1 point back).

Edit: Aha, I see what happened. The difference between the Kalashtar 'Naturally Psionic' racial ability and the standard one is about three words of text stuck in the middle of the ability description (in the usual one, it ends at +1PP, as opposed to +1PP per character level). Annoying, but now I know.

Heliomance

2014-10-04, 06:05 PM

More disputes! Yay!

On Elegance:
Wow harsh. First I would like some clarification on where the points are being lost? Your arguing semantics on weapon focus, fine though I fail to see a distinction, grabbing weapon focus feat on top of the class feature would not stack and therefore is the same thing in my eyes but I am sure this argument has been had hundreds of times on these forums and we can just agree to disagree. My big contention here though is that you are hitting me for not qualifying for the SI, I quote:
Elegance

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.

While I understand the hit for a Flaw and knew it was gonna happen well before I decided to take it (and that's why I only grabbed 1), the rest of the build fits the criteria of elegance, While most DM's don't allow Flaws, the rest of the build is sound. I avoided excess dipping, Avoided DMM cleric and Cloistered shenanigans, Went into lasher and warshaper as soon as they were available, Avoided known cheese (kobold cheese IS known but the changeling is the unsung hero in our tale). Elegance is about getting the most out of your decisions when building.

My decisions:
I wanted as many attacks as I could get so I grabbed warshaper.
This build could not function without changeling/warshaper combo
I needed full iteratives without sacrificing the ability to rend and rake, Mouthpick weapon covers this
Grabbed more extra attacks through the SI, with crack of fate/doom.
I needed pounce to make use of the many attacks, without dipping I grabbed this and more through feral
Grabbed more attacks by being dragon, with rapidstrike line.
Needed to make use of all of his attacks since many things turn to vapor quickly, Grabbed sudden leap to let him fly around the battlefield and literally double his threat area
Needed to do more than just damage. We get battlefield control through knockdown/trip, disarm, grab, and stuns
Scout through several stances, maneuvers and racial disguise, near max hide and move silently, the ability to walk on ceilings, teleport and turn invisible.
A way to close the gap to distanced spellcasters/archers, hence Leaping flame.
Needed the stat array to cover said roles, hence venerable and dragonwrought, and warshaper 2
Needed as many feats as I could get to cover all of these roles as well, hence wyrm of war.

Every decision made specifically added power to an otherwise subpar mundane class. Even the decision to enter said subpar class actually made the build stronger (better BAB, useful abilities, battlefield control). AND I only needed 1 flaw to make it work. how is that not elegant?

The real beauty of this build though, is in response to your comment "No. I can't see any GM not running a cheese-based game allowing this guy, even as a joke." Warshaper is only as powerful as your DM rules it. Many DM's likely wouldn't allow more than 3-5 natural weapons, just to stop the overwhelming damage that is possible with this class. There is a list of 103 natural weapons on these very forums, while some occupy the same slots as others, many do not. Tentacles are a natural weapon and there is NO limit to the number of tentacles someone can have. I gave an example of my vision for him which of course is a little extreme. 10/10 DM's will allow a bite (claws gained through feral). Thats ultimately what Ookoobey was built on. If the DM allows a tail (reasonable) it buffs Ookoobey, if he allows a slam (could be reasonable), that buffs him. if he allows wing attacks (pushing it) that buffs him, etc. etc. If he doesn't allow anything but the bite, well at least you still manage to get 16 attacks in a round with just claws, rakes, rend, and iteratives. A good DM could easily keep warshaper in check just by not allowing you to shape more than a certain number of weapons, which easily could be adjusted as you level. When the wizard/cleric polymorphs, casts girallons blessing, and a plethora of other buffs and outshines you in the one role your good at, its likely you'll gain a buff.

On Use of the SI:
Now you might be thinking that ultimately this build could do better for ten levels. I would argue against that line of thought. While I agree that almost every ability given by lasher is static, other than ways to increase the DC’s. Improved trip is amazing and arguably a main part of our dish, since anything that manages to survive the onslaught that is OoKoobey, will almost assuredly be tripped by his many attacks. Disarm is great and our increased strength almost assures us that anything our size has no weapons. With third hand we can deposit the item in one of our claws, if we desire but its honestly better just to let it drop to the ground. Wound is what we’re really looking at in this class though, 15 ft reach weapon with PA (oversized weapon) and now we no longer have to do subdual with it, Awesome! But wait, reread the disarm comment a sec, thats right, claws is plural. Its not a mistake, with Warshaper we make sure to grab a bite attack, we then upgrade our whip to a +1 mouthpick (+1) weapon. This lets us sacrifice the low damage bite for full iteratives with our whip, and we’re now able to use our superior claw damage as well. With crack of doom this nets us 6 attacks with a whip, 7 if you wanna use your haste on this set of attacks. Any other class will net us at least 2 fewer attacks, Ookoobey thrives on attacking as many times as possible. Stunning snap is the reason we take this class to level 10 despite it not being the capstone. The DC is based off our STR and the Lasher level and if they fail it on our first attack they lose their dex insuring that we will hit with almost everything and obliterating them. It doesn't list an action so I am assuming Standard, but if it can be done as part of an attack, like many maneuvers, then its even better. Besides, having a creature jump in the middle of a group and whip its tongue(whip) in a circle about its head stunning everyone then wrap there tongue(whip) around your throat while they rip you apart with their claws is an awesome sight.

Re: kestrel404

Kash was penalized in Power and Use of the Secret Ingredient for giving up Cleric casting. However, he has the same casting abilities as Itse Ruoskia, who used the secret ingredient in a similar way and received similar commentary, but was scored higher in both categories. Could you account for the discrepancy? Particularly in power, as it seems the builds are doing the same thing there--tripping, disabling, channeling Cleric spells, "losing a lot of caster levels for questionable benefits"--except that Kash does it with more BAB.

Also, you mentioned smite being "not as cool"--it probably doesn't affect scoring, but it's worth clearing up that Kash isn't using smite; the smite ability from his domain is traded away for a bonus feat, and his rebukes are earmarked for Law Devotion, which is a much more powerful ability. Even if he did have rebukes to spare, it'd be way, way down on the list of things he wants to use his swift actions for.

kestrel404

2014-10-04, 07:17 PM

More disputes! Yay!

Ookoobey -
Your elegance score is, primarily, a direct result of your using Kobold Cheese. This is the proper place to put penalties for extreme cheese in builds. You have 3 and a half templates stacked onto a race which doesn't normally qualify for 2 of those templates, you've got 2 dips (I count any class with only 1 or 2 levels as a dip), and you fail to qualify for the secret ingredient (the fact that you CAN change your build to qualify does not change the fact that it does not, as presented, do so). That takes you down to a 1 in elegance. Then you have a flaw, which I always count as a -1 to elegance. Hence, 0 (which has been shown to be a valid score in past contests).

As for UOSI, I start out at average (3.0) and go up or down depending. You got a -1 for not qualifying for the SI (no complaints for double penalties, because it's a really big deal - I once got an outright 0 on UOSI for that). Another -1 for being more invested in natural weapon attacks than the whip which is central to the secret ingredient. And while the mouthpick-whip idea is interesting, it just highlights the fact that the build isn't about Lasher so much as it's using Lasher to get some Stunning attacks and other tricks. If you'd somehow made the whip INTO a natural attack itself, that penalty would have flipped into a bonus. You got a +.5 for completing the SI, like everyone else.

Edit: Oh, and from a GM standpoint I have no problem with the Warshaper/Changeling combo - that's totally legit. It's the template stacking that I really have an issue with.

Kash -
Itse Ruoskia got a +1 to power for building around a particular spell (Mystic Lash) which combos really well with the elements of Lasher. Yes, you have access to that spell, but it's not mentioned in your writeup whereas it's central the that build's combat abilities. You, on the other hand, can trade spells for an extra few points of damage, get +4 to hit 3/day at the cost of your turn attempts, and focus on being a tank/controller through spellcasting rather than with the SI - which IS technically more powerful, but also highlights the weaknesses of the secret ingredient, rather than the strengths.

Essentially, your build feels like a battle-caster that took a deliberately underpowered turn towards being a Gish, while Itse Ruoskia feels like a natural gish with good reasons to BE a gish, even if it could have been better were it differently Gishy. This IS simply my opinion, but that's part of being a judge, and other judges will have other opinions.

The Viscount

2014-10-04, 10:59 PM

Sweet, judgings!

Thank you for your time kestrel404, it is much appreciated. I found your judging pretty fair. Which is why I'm only sending you 3 disputes.

Heliomance

2014-10-05, 05:07 AM

Sweet, judgings!

Thank you for your time kestrel404, it is much appreciated. I found your judging pretty fair. Which is why I'm only sending you 3 disputes.

You say that in blue text...

Follow-up dispute because I'm a little confused about the response.

Regarding trading spells for a few extra points of damage. Not sure what you're referring to there...I guess there's the Fist of the Gods ability, but that's not part of Kash's standard tactics at all and I never claimed it was--I highlighted the main draws of Ordained Champion in the writeup, and Fist of the Gods wasn't among them. (Frankly, it seems like by far the low point of the prestige class to me. Divine Bulwark is underwhelming too, but it at least has occasional utility against a horde of little creatures, whereas I have a hard time seeing when Fist of the Gods is ever worth using. Most of the time the extra damage is just worse than a quickened spiritual weapon, which lasts longer, hits for more, deals force damage, ignores all DR, and keeps attacking even if you do something else on your action. I guess it might be good for non-Clerics who took the class but don't actually have the War domain? Or...I dunno, TWF gishes with dual-wielded longswords or flails? Is that a thing? Or maybe you're just supposed to only spend cantrips? Yeah, I guess it's probably better than the effect you'd get from most cantrips, so that's reasonable. Kash still probably wouldn't do that, because he has so many other things to do with his swift actions... but I digress.)

You must be mistaken about "+4 to hit 3/day at the cost of your turn attempts," since I'm looking over the the build and it simply doesn't have an ability that does that. The closest thing is Law Devotion, a feat which Itse and Kash share...so not really a point of contrast.

Tripping, disarming, and Sickening Strike aren't really "being a tank/controller through spellcasting rather than with the SI," are they? The only BFC spells in the writeup that aren't on-hit riders attached to a whip's trip attack are scare, which I did explicitly mention was a nice tool at low levels but not the build's main focus, and black tentacles, which I brought up in passing because it's a unique spell Kash gets from Dread Tyranny (although now that I think of it, I probably should have talked more about it; it's pretty sweet how it enables sneak attacks and synergizes with reach). I presented Kash as a frontline combatant starting from level 1 and prioritized melee combat over spellcasting from there. It's not as if he's a Cloistered Cleric 10 doing a 180 halfway through the build; he's been gishy all along.

It is of course right and good that judging should be holistic, and I hope it's understood that I'm just trying to be sure your analysis wasn't based on a misreading--not to debate your scoring point-by-point. :smallsmile:

kestrel404

2014-10-05, 07:31 AM

Ah, I didn't read Ordained champion's smite beyond 'spend a turn attempt' - which you've got 3/day. I guess you'd actually get +0 to hit and +9 damage, which isn't much better.

Either way, the issue that I'm trying to point out to you is that, before you dip Warblade, nearly everything in the writeup is in reference to some spell or other, or spellcasting in general. Yes, you're a frontline combatant/spellcaster - that's why I refer to the build as CoDzilla. However, all of your combat power is coming from that well of magical power - even the Ordained Champion's powers pretty much all revolve around spellcasting.

What would have gotten you an extra .5 to power if you'd mentioned it is that OC's Channel spell (a move action which applies a spell effect to next target hit) is quite devastating combined with Death Spiral and the right spell. As it is, you've got an average power score and a below-average UOSI mostly because your focus was on spellcasting when going into a prestige class with no spellcasting.

Piggy Knowles

2014-10-05, 10:44 AM

Blame the baby, but I have not even begun to judge. We'll have to see if I get some time later to sit down and review all the builds in detail, but there's a chance I might not get my judging in after all. Sorry, folks.

Venger

2014-10-05, 11:21 AM

Heliomance

2014-10-05, 11:28 AM

You still have another week to post the scores in - plenty of time yet!

More commentary from our esteemed chefs:

I totally agree with most of the judging. I'm actually surprised with how well Krad did! There are a few things that I would have gone back and changed, mostly with how I worded things and some reasoning. The Combat Expertise route mentioned would have been an interesting turn on the build, especially if Thicket of Blades had been worked in. The ruling that tentacle whips may not actually qualify for Lasher class features is foggy due to how the book is written, but fair.

Since I do agree with the judging, I'm not really looking for an increase in score. These are mostly added reasoning that I should have covered in my original entry.
The penalty for barbarian/fighter is pretty fair, considering that duskblade would have been much better as a dip. The main reasoning for barbarian is strength. That extra +2 damage while raging helps towards triggering knockdown due to the low damage of the whip, and also helps on trip attempts. The typical Whirling Frenzy + Lion Totem could have helped justify barbarian, but like I said in the adaptation section, too much cheese. That said, a channeled shocking grasp would have been a much more reliable way to trigger knockdown, along with the other assorted goodies.

The reasoning for fighter is feats, making it a power choice above anything else, which is why I understand the elegance/originality penalty. Soul eater is very difficult to qualify for as a LA 0 class without totally hamstringing you for feats. Without Fighter, the earliest Krad can qualify for it is level 15, far out of the level where it would be effective. Without the Soul eater dip at level 10, the build would be mediocre until 15, relying purely on Lasher with no pizzazz, which makes early entry paramount. The loss of fighter would also knock out madness, battle jump, knockdown, or even TWF (pick 3), significantly reducing combat options.

Well that's my 2 copper. Like I said before, thank you for the fair judging! I look forward to the other judges.

3.5 templates? He has one template, feral, and one pseudo-template, wyrm of war, which required 2 feats and a flaw to grab, far more than it would have taken just a kobold to do.
I fail to see the 3.5 templates.
Venerable is an age category, and Dragonwrought is a feat. both of which are 100% from legal sources and which he qualifies for.
Feral was paid for with a level loss, and I specifically made sure to call it out in my build. 20th level is only there for completeness if you wished to use him in a game that allow's buyoff.
Penalizing the build harshly for legal selections seems kinda wrong, templates have always been ok so long as the build functions without LA buyoff.
Also I totally agree the kobold tricks are cheesy, but it hasn't been done using a kobold, and I feel that should grant a few points in its favor.

Your right, Ookoobey may not focus purely on the whip, if he did he'd deliberately handicap himself until he could enter the SI. That's why few of the entries focus on the whip, and those that did took huge hits for power. But how is the whip used in Ookoobey's build? Lots of extra attacks, grabbing at range and pulling into threatened areas, and Battlefield control, without relying on several of the known tricks others highlighted in their builds. How many of the builds would be 10x better with a spiked chain, and 10 levels of X? Not Ookoobey, he needed the control, needed the extra attacks, something which the SI grants, and therefore is NOT a power reduction.

On a sidenote I have never got why using other prestige classes as "dips" is penalized. Prestige classes are already paid for by using specific feat/skill/race selections and not always something you really want in the first place. Base classes are dips prestige classes really aren't. If someone could point me to the argument that has made every judge feel that prestige classes are considered dips, I would appreciate it.

Sorry if things come out harsh or argumentative, its not meant to be, just trying to get my point across/see your point, and I feel clarification is the issue.

kestrel404

2014-10-05, 04:13 PM

Gemini476

2014-10-05, 06:22 PM

@Ookoobey -
I know that, technically, Dragonwrought is NOT a template. Except that, for all intents and purposes, it IS a template that just happens to cost a feat. It changes a characters TYPE - and the only other thing in the game that does that is the Template.
Venerable is also a template. It's just that the Age categories were there in the books before they had formalized the idea of templates, so they don't call them that. It is an acquired template that applies when you hit specific ages for specific races.

So yes, what you did is RAW legal - and since it is technically legal, I did not penalize it in power. And since I haven't seen any of that on a Changeling before, I gave bonus originality points for creativity. But since it IS known cheese, and would NOT fly in an actual game, it got a penalty in elegance.
Dragonwrought isn't the only non-template thing that changes your type - there's a few spells that do it temporarily, like Humanoid Essence, and there's also the Human Heritage feat which makes you into a Humanoid(Human).
I think there might also be some class features that change your type - Green Star Adept is the most obvious, but I think I remember some others making you an Outsider? Oh yeah, and then there's Risen Martyr. There's lots of non-templates that change your type, basically.

Age categories are also in the Player's Handbook, while templates have been around since waay back in 3.0 and beyond. And the Monster Manual has templates, of course.
3.5 was a rules update, remember. If by the time they updated the core rules they decided that age categories weren't a template, they probably aren't a template. I'm pretty sure that there's a bunch of dysfunctions that would appear if you made them templates, anyway - you could rebuild them away to gain eternal youth, for instance.

That's all I have to comment on this, though - I haven't entered anything in this challenge, so this is just a drive-by comment.

OMG PONIES

2014-10-06, 11:24 AM

Standings After One Judge
EntryO1Total
Maenigo AntoyaGold17.5
Burt MacklinSilver16.5
KradBronze15.5
Casen MurchadhFourth15
Itse RuoskiaFourth15
Jaya FlametongueSixth14
SerketSixth14
LeopoldSixth14
KashNinth12
DevoNinth12
JacamoEleventh10.5
HW Jones JrEleventh10.5
OokoobeyEleventh10.5

Heliomance

2014-10-06, 12:44 PM

Pretty in-depth dispute here!

Oh, this build is like a litany of missed opportunities! DMM: Persist is the first one - you've got Mystic Lash, the ONLY SPELL that creates a weapon which is 'wielded as a whip'! This one, as far as I can tell, is the only not-whip in the entire competition that explicitly counts as a whip! And it does ranged touch attacks! And it has a fixed (0 ft.) range! Persist it, and you'd have been absolute gold!

Persistent Spell was mentioned, albeit in my Adaptation section. This was done for three reasons:
Since Itse has a CHA only a mother could love (after all, she's a strung-out junkie) we'd have to use alternative means to power our Divine Metamagic (like nightsticks). The build was a bit feat-strapped from the start, requiring two flaws to get Persistent Spell off the ground. Thus, it would require using the Naenhoon illumian's ability instead of spending another feat on Divine Metamagic. I know some DMs consider Persistent Spell by itself to be cheesy, much more when combined with flaws, naenhoon illumians, and nightsticks.Since I didn't want to include that much cheese in my dish by default, I included it as an Adaptation note since it's too powerful to pass up, but too cheesy to include by default. Also, I didn't want to sink so many cheesy resources in a tactic that could be thwarted by one well-placed Dispel Magic. Would you please reconsider your scoring since Persistent Spell did receive some treatment in the entry?

As it is, you can cast it all of 4 times per day, for 7 round each, which is probably enough, but requires a buff-round in advance of combat.

Two things seem to have been missed in the judge's comments re: mystic lash: With Violate Spell one could also use a 4th-level spell slot to cast Mystic Lash. Since this makes it an [Evil] spell, it would then last for 8 rounds (or possibly 9 with a CL-boosting item like an ioun stone). I make a case for using Divine Agent's godly gift ability to receive Mystic Lash as a SLA with a CL equal to character level. That would not only mean full damage on the whip, but a casting that lasts for up to 20 rounds.All said, Itse has up to 6 castings per day available for a total of 58 rounds--more than double the duration you've mentioned. Between the stunning ability of Mystic Lash, the features of the Secret Ingredient, and Itse's focus on coup de graces, each combat should not last more than the average 9.67 rounds before opponents are nice and dead. In terms of the buff-round in advance of combat, Itse requires only a standard action to buff up as opposed to the typical Clericzilla build that requires many rounds of persistent buffing in the morning and many rounds of rebuffing should their spells be dispelled. Since this is far more than the uses mentioned above (and at a minimal cost), could you please revisit your scoring on this topic?

On top of that, you're losing a lot of caster levels for questionable benefits - Cleric 6/Maiden of Pain 4 probably would have done better, with CL 9 & 5th level spells, with more castings of Mystic Lash that last longer. The fear aura is nice, but Contact is the 'class feature' version of something that clerics are supposed to get anyway, based on fluff. Overall, It's got a lot of potential if played right, but it may well have been better off with only a few levels of the secret incredient, at most.

I actually considered a Cleric 6/Maiden of Pain 4 when building. Here's what they'd get over the build as presented: +2 CL 1 extra spell of 2nd-4th level 2 5th-level spells +1 BAB +1 Fort/Ref saves +1 use/day of pain touch Improved Trip (redundant w/ later levels in Lasher).Instead, the build as presented received the following: An extra granted domain which allows us to channel Bestow Curse and Enervation through our whip (as well as granting us a pain touch ability, thus rendering the above +1 use of pain touch moot Contact (which I agree should be a cleric class feature but is not, thus adding a heavy dose of RP fun) Menacing Aura to reduce our opponent's saves against our Secret Ingredient class features as well as their opposed checks Godly Gift which gives us more rounds of Mystic Lash at a higher CL and base damage than two extra caster levels +1 to Will savesSince the focus of the build was coup de graces, Mystic Lash, and the Secret Ingredient's class features, I weighed these two options and opted for the build as presented since it brought more to the focus of the build. Ultimately, Itse is not a spellcaster who also uses whips, but a whip wielder who happens to know some spells. Would you be willing to reconsider your scores based on the above information?

Well, nothing wrong with this build. It does what it's intended to, and does it well. I'm going to have to count Maiden of Pain as a dip, despite the obvious benefits it provides.

I was originally going to ask if one dip merited a full-point deduction, but evaluating the other comments around dipping brought up a larger question of consistency for me:
HW Jones received a 2 for dipping 2 PrCs: Occult Slayer 2 and Pious Templar 3. No other Elegance concerns were mentioned.
Burt Macklin received a 3 for a "fair amount of dipping" in 3 classes: Bard 2, Battle Dancer 2, and Warblade 2. Other elegance concerns were mentioned as well.
Jaya received an Elegance of 2.5 for her two dips: Warblade 1 and Swordsage 1. Other elegance concerns were mentioned as well.
Serket received a 3, despite 3 dips: Ranger 2, Paladin 3, and Master of Masks 1. Another elegance concern was mentioned as well.
Casen received a 4; Exotic Weapon Master 3 was not mentioned as a dip. Other elegance concerns were mentioned as well.
Krad received a 3.5, despite 1 dip: Barbarian 1. Other Elegance concerns were mentioned.
Ookoobey received a 0; his two dips were not mentioned (warblade 2 and warshaper 2). Other Elegance concerns were mentioned as well.
Itse received a 4, despite 1 dip: Maiden of Pain 2. Divine Agent 3 was not mentioned as a dip. It was mentioned that nothing else was wrong.
From the above it seems dips may have been scored inconsistently. Some builds have dips mentioned for 3 levels in a class while others don't; in-thread dipping has been defined as follows:

I count any class with only 1 or 2 levels as a dipHowever, it seems dips (even of the same number of levels) were scored differently in different cases. Can you please clarify?

This is one of those good/bad builds. It's good because I can really see why, for fluff reasons, Lasher was included. It works well as part of the build. It's bad, because it would have been BETTER just sticking with Maiden of Pain to the end, because Mystic Lash basically gives a lot of what Lasher does as a class, and Maiden of pain provides the Improved Trip and Improved Disarm feats when using a whip. I'm going to go with an average score here, because the ingredient was used well, but the build was inferior because of it.

Maiden of Pain to the end gives the following which the build lacks: Increased CL More spellcasting (which means more Mystic Lashing) Improved Trip and Improved Disarm feats given by LasherHowever, the following things are gained by advancement in Lasher that would not be otherwise obtained:
Whip sneak attack, which not only ups our total damage output but was taken specifically to increase the save DC against our plentiful coup de grace attempts, which is the central focus of the build.
Close Combat, which allows us to attack (and deliver touch spells through our whip) within 5 feet without provoking AoOs.
Wound, which allows our whips to actually do damage and thus enables our ability to coup-de-grace from 15 feet away.
Whip Lash, which allows us to make attacks of opportunity with our whip (which could mean delivering touch spells or stuns via AoO)!
Third Hand, which allows us to wind up with a disarmed opponent's weapon in our hand, even from 15 feet away. Coupled with Snatch Weapon, this means more attacks.
Crack of Fate & Crack of Doom, which add additional attacks we wouldn't otherwise get on top of our 4 iterative attacks.
Lashing Whip, which is not only free Weapon Specialization but also increases the save DC against our coup de grace attempts by +4.
Stunning Snap which, while functionally similar to Mystic Lash, carries a higher scaling DC and can be used in conjunction with Mystic Lash to force 2 saves vs stunning on an attack.
Death Spiral, one of the few in-game ways to render groups of foes helpless (and thus susceptible to our standard-action coup de grace attempts).
Thus, there are 9 separate abilities provided only by Lasher that I do not know how a Cleric/Maiden of Pain by itself would be able to replicate. Can you please clarify or revisit your scores?