View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Reinterpreting Bluff and Other Such Skills

2014-09-14, 02:32 PM
Bluff basically amounts to mind control as it stands. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html)
Which is fine, and subject to DM fiat, but not to my tastes.

I propose reversing application of Bluff and Sense Motive. And a few other things that occurred to me as I wrote this.

Sense Motive (Wis)
You can make a Sense Motive check against a target character's Bluff Bonus +10, then ask a a question out-of-character regarding the targets current motives.
EX: "What might cause you to panic right now?", "What would it take for you to betray your boss?", "Are you hiding anything from me?".
If you succeed, their player has to tell you the truth. If you fail, the player only needs to tell you what they WANT you to think, which may or may not be true.

Bluff (Cha)
Under normal circumstances no amount of skill in Bluff will convince a person in a single sentence that they've turned into a newt. You can however easily make them believe that YOU sincerely think they've turned into a newt. Though perhaps if you have the opportunity to hammer away at the point long enough they might start to wonder if you know something they don't.

Diplomacy (Wis)
The man on the throne is not often the one controlling the kingdom. Diplomacy is basically an understanding of local geography. Important language phrases and/or commonly used slang. Resources in high demand. Local rules of etiquette that avoid a potentially lethal faux pas. The names of the various court officials, crime lords, and innocuous middle men who can actually get things done.
Note: All intelligent creatures that live communally have some standards and practices of politeness, even goblins. Eating someone with good manners is just weird and awkward.

Perform (Cha)
There are precious few creatures in existence, natural, magical, or even undead, that are utterly unmoved by music. Virtually anything intelligent is intrigued by a good story. If the nature of the performance suits the listener's tastes (as discovered by Sense Motive or possibly Diplomacy) the change in their attitude can be astounding.
You can change the initial attitudes of nonplayer characters with a successful check. The DC of this check depends on the creature’s starting attitude toward you, adjusted by its Charisma modifier.

Succeed- If you succeed, the character’s attitude toward you is improved by one step. For every 5 by which your check result exceeds the DC, the character’s attitude toward you increases by one additional step. A creature’s attitude cannot be shifted more than two steps up in this way, although the GM can override this rule in some situations.

Fail- If you fail the check by 4 or less, the character’s attitude toward you is unchanged. If you fail by 5 or more, the character’s attitude toward you is decreased by one step.

Starting Attitude Perform DC
Hostile 25+ creature's Cha Modifier
Unfriendly 20+ creature's Cha Modifier
Indifferent 15+ creature's Cha Modifier
Friendly 10+ creature's Cha Modifier
Helpful 0+ creature's Cha Modifier

2014-10-05, 11:59 PM
huh, interesting and more realistic, good for low magic campaigns, but for regular ones ive always assumed that the art of bluff is kind of magic much like a spell, though a real life person acting in just the right way might not be able to convince you that ur a newt, but if they act right they may make you take a double check, just in time to miss the que

what que?

that que

*arrow pierces helm*

2014-10-06, 10:54 AM
I like this redefinition; it works out more-or-less fine.

My only complaint is your comment that Bluff is basically mind control - every form of communication is a form of mind control, in so far as you are forcibly evoking thought-symbols to get your point across.

2014-10-07, 04:30 PM
I think your point on bluff is being misinterpreted, as it stands it seems to me a basic bluff check with a clever use.

Sense motive is the gold here, it's a soft intimidate, which should give a hint (like receiving an unintended hidden message) but not necessarily a truth field effect. Both rolls (you and your target) should be done behind the DM screen.

I would rule perform and diplomacy can be done simultaneously and a good check on either will grant a +2 to both.

Diplomacy is not Knowledge [Local] nor is is Knowledge [Nobility], but it navigates around blunders even when not informed.