Dragon Compendium PrCs-Hit Dice

[Marlowe]

Attend!

And Lo! For I was, at some time you might call recently, browsing the etheric surface of the Interweb on subjects related to this D&D 3.5 thing, of which some on this forum might have heard tell.

And Yea! And Behold! For reasons I remember not, I found myself in Beholditude of the DnDtools.eu page for the Prestige Class from Dragon Compendium known to all and some as the "Force Missile Mage". And yea, and verily, I noticed that its Hit Dice was given as d8.

And bethought I: Blimey. That's pretty meaty for an Arcane Caster PrC, what does the book say?

And in troth: I did consult that venerable tome known as Dragon Compendium to confirm this wisdom, and was surprised, yea, surprised; to discover that not just the Force Missile Mage entry, but none of the Prestige Classes to which the pages of that august volume were given unto made any mention of class hit dice.

I come before the forum to ask: What did I miss? What is the Hit dice for those prestige classes and where is it written? If, by me troth, it is on a separate table in the same volume I will feel rather silly for posting this, but not as silly as if I hadn't asked.

TL:DR: Dragon Compendium doesn't seem to give Class Hit dice for its Prestige Classes. At least not in the "prestige class" section. Where are they listed?

[sleepyphoenixx]

They're in the little box with the requirements, upper right corner. It appears someone was feeling artistic.

[Marlowe]

'tis true! I see it now. The old "Cast-vital-information-in-the-likeness-of-a-decorative-motif-that-the-jaded-post-modern-eye-may-glance-upon-it-without-discerning-ruse".

So...why does the Force Missile Mage have a d8 Hit die?

[sleepyphoenixx]

So...why does the Force Missile Mage have a d8 Hit die?

My guess is that the designer tried to make up for the fact that you just wasted 5 levels on a minor damage first level spell. I'd have rather had full casting progression, but there you go.

Or maybe he was just drunk? Rolled some dice to decide? Asked his four year old kid?
I've long given up on trying to understand why the designers make most of their decisions regarding class design.

[Daishain]

'tis true! I see it now. The old "Cast-vital-information-in-the-likeness-of-a-decorative-motif-that-the-jaded-post-modern-eye-may-glance-upon-it-without-discerning-ruse".

So...why does the Force Missile Mage have a d8 Hit die?

Presumably, it was designed for battle casters such as the War mage, who need to be a bit tougher than their studied counterparts, since they're more likely to be in the thick of things.

[Psyren]

Usually a TL;DR just summarizes the OP - in your case it could have replaced all that flowery language entirely :smalltongue:


My guess is that the designer tried to make up for the fact that you just wasted 5 levels on a minor damage first level spell.

You're kidding right? 7d4+7 force damage out of a 1st-level slot with no saving throw is nothing to sneeze at. Throw in Argent Savant and it becomes 7d4+14 out of a 1st-level slot - and it only gets better once you start throwing in metamagic.

And if you port this into Pathfinder (DrC was written by Paizo, so you have a decent shot) it gets downright sickening - Intensify Spell, Preferred Spell, Toppling Spell, Spell Specialization etc.

[The Viscount]

In the errata for dragon compendium they knocked force missile mage down to a d4.

[sleepyphoenixx]

You're kidding right? 7d4+7 force damage out of a 1st-level slot with no saving throw is nothing to sneeze at. Throw in Argent Savant and it becomes 7d4+14 out of a 1st-level slot - and it only gets better once you start throwing in metamagic.

And if you port this into Pathfinder (DrC was written by Paizo, so you have a decent shot) it gets downright sickening - Intensify Spell, Preferred Spell, Toppling Spell, Spell Specialization etc.

7d4+7 damage out of a 1st-level slot is certainly nice. I just don't think it's worth losing a level of caster progression and 5 levels of taking another, better PrC.
It's also only 2d4+2 damage over what you'd get anyway. You can increase your damage by that or more for a lesser investment.

If all you ever want to do is cast Magic Missile the class is certainly right up your alley. It's just not much good for anything else, so you're usually better off increasing your damage by another method first and only taking it after you've maxed out those methods. And by that time you'll likely be one-hitting your enemies anyway.

[DeAnno]

FMM is a great complement to the 3rd party "War Mage" if you can swing it, both have similar entry requirements and are quick classes to get through. (Both get hit by the errata-stick though.) Doing 7d4+28 base damage is pretty cool. The main issue with Magic Missile after FMM is that you still have no way to crack an AMF, but otherwise it is a fine spell.

[Chronos]

The real problem with this class is that a caster's power isn't determined by what they can do with a first-level spell slot, but by what they can do with their highest (or maybe second-highest) level. 7d4+7 is what, about 25 damage to a single target (or less if spread out over multiples)? By the time you get that, that's nothing.

[Psyren]

The real problem with this class is that a caster's power isn't determined by what they can do with a first-level spell slot, but by what they can do with their highest (or maybe second-highest) level. 7d4+7 is what, about 25 damage to a single target (or less if spread out over multiples)? By the time you get that, that's nothing.

Which is what your other 30+ spells known are for. They don't magically fall out of your head because you wanted to be a FMM.

[Chronos]

Well, some of them do, because you're giving up a level of casting progression.

[KillianHawkeye]

In the errata for dragon compendium they knocked force missile mage down to a d4.

This is why you ALWAYS check the errata!

[Psyren]

Well, some of them do, because you're giving up a level of casting progression.

Oh noes, 2 less spells, how will I break physics now.

[Marlowe]

Presumably, it was designed for battle casters such as the War mage, who need to be a bit tougher than their studied counterparts, since they're more likely to be in the thick of things. Which would make sense if the Warmage didn't have only a d6 hit dice.

There is a d8 class that can qualify for FMM, which I forgot completely when I posted.:smallsmile:


Usually a TL;DR just summarizes the OP - in your case it could have replaced all that flowery language entirely :smalltongue:

Alas, Alack, oh minatory and misnamed Psyren, where be the bad poetry in and of your soul?