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DontEatRawHagis
2014-09-15, 01:25 PM
So far I have not had the PCs see this mechanic. I avoided the topic a lot and in fact didn't use them because of how I feel they are very unfair...BUT

My players are going up against the Horseman of Death. Which I have already given a weapon that can insta-kill.

How do I get them to recognize that I am escalating the threat to their characters?

Anxe
2014-09-15, 01:37 PM
You could tell them OOC, but that breaks immersion. You could also have them hear rumors or a prophecy of some kind that the Horseman's Scythe can kill a person with one blow. You could place a scroll of death ward as treasure if you're doing D&D 3.5. Eventually they'll get used to it if you use more death effects. My players just always have death ward up at this point.

Segev
2014-09-15, 01:46 PM
Let them see it in action against NPCs established to be nearly the party's level. Possibly give it a visual of, if it kills via death effect (rather than hp loss), it hooks the soul right out of the body. Visibly. And then the soul dissolves, passing on to the afterlife. Visibly.

lytokk
2014-09-15, 01:47 PM
could always one shot a powerful npc in their "first meeting but not final meeting" Its a bit tropey but it works.

Red Fel
2014-09-15, 01:56 PM
So far I have not had the PCs see this mechanic. I avoided the topic a lot and in fact didn't use them because of how I feel they are very unfair...BUT

My players are going up against the Horseman of Death. Which I have already given a weapon that can insta-kill.

How do I get them to recognize that I am escalating the threat to their characters?

First off, take this as a teachable moment - never spare the use of a major mechanic if you intend to use it later. If you dislike Save-or-Die effects because they're unfair, so strongly that you won't use them, then don't use them at all. You've deprived the players of the opportunity to learn about SoDs, and by extension the opportunity to prepare for and counteract them.

Now that the lesson is out of the way, what's left is basically fiat. You can't rely on the players do prepare countermeasures, because they have had no reason to do so previously. Any SoD will catch them completely by surprise. Fiat, at this point, is the only way to get the message across. As others have mentioned, you have several options: Have them see the effect in action. Others have suggested using an NPC for this purpose. The problem is that unless you make it abundantly clear that the Horseman will use this effect freely, the PCs may simply assume an NPC death is cinematic. Drop hints. Lore and rumor and what-not. The problem is that unless you actually step out of character and tell them, "Guys, this isn't a rumor, and it's not a metaphor, it's an actual literal thing, he can straight-up insta-kill you," the players can easily misconstrue these stories. One can hear about someone who kills with a single stroke and assume that he simply deals a lot of damage, or that his powers are exaggerated. Tell them out of character. This is the most direct and effective way to deal with it, but as others have mentioned it completely breaks immersion.
There is, of course, one last option: You haven't use SoDs so far, so simply don't use them now. Come up with another way to express the Horseman's power that doesn't involve instant death. It keeps your rules internally consistent and doesn't require any form of fiat or metagame.

And next time, if you plan to use mechanics like this, come up with a way to expose the PCs in advance, so that the players can prepare accordingly.

A Tad Insane
2014-09-15, 03:14 PM
Hit them with a save or suck, preferably from the same area of magic. That way, they learn about it and have something to deal with it

JusticeZero
2014-09-15, 04:41 PM
Foreshadow it as described. Then just kill them with it. I mean, its obviously a BBEG. They wouldn't have all those raise dead effects if you didn't expect to use them.

Giddonihah
2014-09-16, 01:47 PM
Instead of Save or Death, make the weapon do Save or Massive amount of Negative Levels. Its close to save or Death, causes the players to utilize the same defenses, and really really messes the one hit without usually killing them instantly. Oh and if you do kill them with Neg levels theres the undead side of things.

DontEatRawHagis
2014-09-16, 01:58 PM
That's an idea!

Turn them undead. Not as bad in that way. They might have metaphysical questions. Such as does he still have a soul.

Mr.Moron
2014-09-16, 02:39 PM
I'd imagine that the embodiment of death itself would be something of legendary force. If was running it I'd basically be assuming that something that powerful would be a pretty established part of common mythology.

That is PCs would already be aware IC that he carries a weapon that slays with a single cut and can kill with a mere touch. They'd have been hearing about it in stories since they were children. It's obvious and apparent the moment they meet it.

Throwing that aside it's not absurd to assume that living creatures carrying some innate understanding of death. This is the raw incarnation of the one force that all living things hope to avoid. Even if you have't heard of it before you just know. Something so inherently opposed to your own existence just cannot be mistaken or overlooked.

"As you see [Description of Creature] something inside you quivers. You are suddenly abundantly aware that this is death and that the blade it holds need not cut deep to kill. Some primal part of your soul is screaming at you: the first drop of blood it draws from you will be the last.

The Vagabond
2014-09-16, 02:47 PM
Alright, I am willing to admit, I don't really have much expiriance with DMing, but a alternative method that is somewhat metagamey;

Have a powerful NPC. Leave his sheet on the table, ensure that he has more HP than the strongest one in the party. If you have a metagamer, use him, and have him look at the sheet and inform everyone about the character's power level.
Make sure his weak save is what the attack is to.

Then, roll his save in front of everyone. State to everyone that he has failed his save, and then have him die.

DM Nate
2014-09-17, 09:04 AM
I too was going to suggest save-or-negative-levels, but I see someone beat me to it. Playing with a character that's leveled-down is arguably more distressing than just rolling up a new one.

ElenionAncalima
2014-09-17, 09:39 AM
I agree with those saying to drop a lot of hints.

ie) A survivor describing how the horseman killed the town hero with a single strike. Make it clear there was dark magic in play and that this guy way too strong to be slain by a single stroke under normal circumstances.

Of course, if you are really worried your player won't see it coming and/or will take it badly (you know them better than us), I would just find another power for the horseman.

Kamai
2014-09-17, 03:19 PM
Taking this from completely the other side, give them an encounter with this guy they can escape. Have a NPC give the one most likely to go into melee with him a one use charm that repels a death effect. When the scythe hits, the charm breaks, they should panic, and figure out how to prepare better when they face this guy again. If they instead fight and beat this guy, well, they didn't need the help anywhos.

Requiem_Jeer
2014-09-17, 06:56 PM
Kamai has a good idea. First, you drop hints by giving out a few magic items that can absorb a single instant death effect. Then have someone who isn't this big bad guy use them on those who have them. That will wake them up right fast to the possibility.

Have these item's fluff be quite clear that they are meant to oppose the power of Death, preferably indirectly, like they normally are used to protect from priests of Death.

Put enough time between the wakeup call the the fight with Death, and be sure to talk up his scythe of instant death on top of all this, and they'll either be prepared or deserve what happens to them.

MasterFu
2014-09-21, 01:18 AM
Maybe letting the players see it happen to someone else would feel less forced if it was some sort of flashback? "Oh great and wise divination-specced NPC, show us the fate of the last heroes to challenge this BBEG.". Actually, this could be handled as a one-shot combat with different characters (they could be running the actual combat instead of just watching it).

Or give them a spell/item/plot device that allows them to rewind the fight to the beginning a certain number of times (a la the dagger in Prince of Persia). But if you do it this way, you'll need to go all out or it might not feel challenging enough.

Flashy
2014-09-21, 05:58 AM
If you are going to go the kill an npc route then it seems to me you have to make the roll on the table, and say THIS IS THE NPC MAKING A FORT/WILL SAVE because otherwise it isn't clear what just happened. If you haven't introduced save or dies at all then the players don't know this is a thing that can happen, so if they see the villain kill a powerful npc in a single hit they're just as likely to think that he hits for a huge pile of damage as they are to think that the npc blew his saving throw to not die. More likely, in fact, since they don't think that saving throws to not die are a thing that can happen.

The basic problem is that there's no good way to explain an out of game concept in character, so just you might as well quickly explain the premise to them out of character and move on with the game since that's what it's going to amount to in the end. That's how explaining save or dies would go even if they had been a thing that you'd been doing since the start of play, because at a certain point you have to explain the rules of the game to people in order for them to play like they know what they're doing. A two minute conversation about save or dies won't severely break immersion, it won't be a big deal, everyone will know how to react to this new situation and it'll save so much hassle and confusion.

Cazero
2014-09-23, 10:11 AM
I've read a one-shot where the DM starts by giving pre-rolled characters to the players, and then proceed to slaughter them in an hopeless fight, with one or two survivors. The "real" PCs then hear about this when starting their mission, wich explains entirely the metagaming knowledge obtained by playing as butchered NPCs (and is supposed to give them an incentive to avoid that fight).

For Death itself, that kind of fight could have happened anytime in history. If you tell them explicitly that they're going to reenact an historical fight with NPCs about to die that everyone had heard about, it would be much funnier than just telling them "that guy can one-hit kill you", and you can introduce an explicit save-or-die roll wich they can clearly identify as such rather than massive HP damage, since they will see the mechanics in action. But make sure the NPCs can't actually win.