Added damage dice and critical hits

[Kadarai]

So, on a critical hit you get to double EVERY dice of damage, including sneak attacks, weapon elemental properties, divine properties, spell buffs etc.

The question is: when you have optional ways to add dice to damage, like a bard's inspiration dice, a battle master's supremacy dice and a paladin's smite, that apply optionally when an attack hits, you can elect to activate them when you score a critical hit and add the twice on damage?

Real play example: the paladin casts thunderous smite and charges a cultist. He rolls a natural 20 and crits, doubling his great sword damage and thunderous smite damage for a whooping (2d6+2d6)x2=8d6+STR righteous onslaught. Thinking that the poor fellow may survive he also activates his divine smite, sacrificing a spell and adding 2d8 more radiant damage. Does the extra 2d8 get doubled?

[Human Paragon 3]

So, on a critical hit you get to double EVERY dice of damage, including sneak attacks, weapon elemental properties, divine properties, spell buffs etc.

The question is: when you have optional ways to add dice to damage, like a bard's inspiration dice, a battle master's supremacy dice and a paladin's smite, that apply optionally when an attack hits, you can elect to activate them when you score a critical hit and add the twice on damage?

Real play example: the paladin casts thunderous smite and charges a cultist. He rolls a natural 20 and crits, doubling his great sword damage and thunderous smite damage for a whooping (2d6+2d6)x2=8d6+STR righteous onslaught. Thinking that the poor fellow may survive he also activates his divine smite, sacrificing a spell and adding 2d8 more radiant damage. Does the extra 2d8 get doubled?

I think this is in the DM's call realm. My first instinct is to allow it.

[lvl 1 human]

I'm not sure if it is RAW. but my group and I understand it as. double weapon damage then add modifyers counting smite and other class added dice as nfot doubled

[hawklost]

I'm not sure if it is RAW. but my group and I understand it as. double weapon damage then add modifyers counting smite and other class added dice as nfot doubled

that is not correct though. In the example given in Basic (p75 under Critical Hit) it specifically calls out extra dice like Sneak Attack getting doubled.


If the attack involves other
damage dice, such as from the rogue’s Sneak Attack
feature, you roll those dice twice as well.

[lvl 1 human]

that is not correct though. In the example given in Basic (p75 under Critical Hit) it specifically calls out extra dice like Sneak Attack getting doubled.


Well then it seems pretty straightforward then. i don't have my book in front of me and i must have missed that good to know

[Z3ro]

A semi-related question that's been bugging me and I can't find the answer:

The half-orc's savage attack ability let's you roll another damage die for critical hits. I'm assuming everyone's interprutting this to mean if you use a 2d6 weapon, you only roll one more d6, right? Otherwise I can't imagine many people using a great axe.

[Envyus]

A semi-related question that's been bugging me and I can't find the answer:

The half-orc's savage attack ability let's you roll another damage die for critical hits. I'm assuming everyone's interprutting this to mean if you use a 2d6 weapon, you only roll one more d6, right? Otherwise I can't imagine many people using a great axe.

Correct. This is the selling point for the great axe.

[TheOOB]

You need to get two extra damage dice with that and ability and have advantage for the greataxe to notably outdamage the greatsword, and even then I'd still saw the greatsword is the better weapon because it's damage is more reliable, and decreasing randomness is usually in the players best interest.

[Shadow]

Divine Smite is a tough case to ajudicate with regards to it's additional dice on crits.

--On one hand, you specifically don't activate it until after the attack roll, and there's nothing that says you can't just save your spell slots while waiting for crits.
--On the other hand, if you double the DS dice as well, it will likely make practically every single Pally crit one shot pretty much any appropriately leveled mob.
--But back on the other hand again, rogues can basically do that with every crit as well.

In the end, I'll probably stick with the strictly RAW ruling that it also gains additional dice, even if they do get the advantage of saving thier slots for crit fishing. And I usually prefer the conservative rulings in matters, preferring to err on the side of caution/balance.

[Mr.Moron]

Divine Smite is a tough case to ajudicate with regards to it's additional dice on crits.

--On one hand, you specifically don't activate it until after the attack roll, and there's nothing that says you can't just save your spell slots while waiting for crits.
--On the other hand, if you double the DS dice as well, it will likely make practically every single Pally crit one shot pretty much any appropriately leveled mob.
--But back on the other hand again, rogues can basically do that with every crit as well.

In the end, I'll probably stick with the strictly RAW ruling that it also gains additional dice, even if they do get the advantage of saving thier slots for crit fishing. And I usually prefer the conservative rulings in matters, preferring to err on the side of caution/balance.

This easiest fix all this is just to say declare smite before the attack, but the resources aren't spent unless it hits. You can't pre-check for crits to spend and don't waste slots on a whiff.

[TheOOB]

This easiest fix all this is just to say declare smite before the attack, but the resources aren't spent unless it hits. You can't pre-check for crits to spend and don't waste slots on a whiff.

That's a house rule and doesn't fix the potential confusion in the rules.

Lets look at the rules

Critical Hit: "Roll all of the attack’s damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal"

Modifiers seem to be implied to be static pluses and minuses, not die rolls, but can't find anything iron clad. Let's look at Divine Smite

"to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage."

Since this is an effect added to an attack, I'd say it gets multiplied. Further it uses similar wording to sneak attack(both are extra damage on a attack), and sneak attack is a specific example of the crit rules. Further, I don't think the saving divine smites for a critical is a very effective strategy, so I'm not worried about game balance.

[Kadarai]

That's a house rule and doesn't fix the potential confusion in the rules.

Lets look at the rules

Critical Hit: "Roll all of the attack’s damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal"

Modifiers seem to be implied to be static pluses and minuses, not die rolls, but can't find anything iron clad. Let's look at Divine Smite

"to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage."

Since this is an effect added to an attack, I'd say it gets multiplied. Further it uses similar wording to sneak attack(both are extra damage on a attack), and sneak attack is a specific example of the crit rules. Further, I don't think the saving divine smites for a critical is a very effective strategy, so I'm not worried about game balance.

True. Thanks for the thorough explanation. I agree it's not game breaking considering the classes that can pull it through (paladin, Battlemaster warrior, any1 buffed by bard) and the classes that do it anyway with extra dice. I just wanted to check if it was ok by raw. It's an added bonus but just keeping your abilities for crit-fishing is not optimal in any way. If you are lucky enough to pull it... cudos for you but that's pretty much it

[EvilAnagram]

Don't you declare that you're using Sneak Attack after you hit? Seems like those spells would work the same way.

[TheOOB]

Don't you declare that you're using Sneak Attack after you hit? Seems like those spells would work the same way.

From a mechanical standpoint the abilities work pretty much the same, the difference is smite has limited used, while sneak attack can be once per round but requires a specific situation. They both add extra damage dice to an existing attack after the attack hits.