It turns out Warforged don't require air after all.

[...]

As we all know, we have had countless arguments on whether or not Warforged have to breathe air to survive. As far as I know, no one has found an official D&D excerpt saying that they do or do not breathe. I have found one. I have ordered two issues of Dragon Magazine via amazon, and one of them has a Sage Advice where the author clearly states that Warforged do not breathe. Unfortunately, I have no idea which one this was in, and I have no idea where they are, so I can only say that it was either in the Dark Sun issue or the issue that featured the second OOTS Dragon comic. Either or, someone who really likes Dragon could easily verify this information for me by looking through those 2 issues.

EDIT: Ksheep's awesomeness has confirmed that this was in #339.

ANOTHER EDIT: This was also in the freaking campaign setting, apparently. I feel like an idiot now.

[atemu1234]

I'll look into it. Talk in the morning. One of the later comics, then, I think.

[...]

I'll look into it. Talk in the morning. One of the later comics, then, I think.

It shouldn't be hard to find. It has a big honkin' advertisement for OOTS in the corner of the cover.

[Ksheep]

Dragon Magazine #339.


Q: Can a Warforged go to any depth underwater?

A: A Warforged has no need to breath (and can thus survive underwater without drowning). However, Warforged are just as vulnerable to the pressure exerted by deep water as any other character. See "Water Dangers" on page 304 of the DMG for details on this hazard.

[Rubik]

It says right in the warforged description on page 23 of the Eberron Campaign Setting that warforged do not need to eat, breathe, or sleep.

I'm not sure why this was ever in doubt.

[torrasque666]

I...... don't know why this was an issue. Warforged explicitly do not need to breathe, and this is a setting where things like Ghost Sound exist. Just because something does not need air, or does not have lungs wouldn't necessarily need to in order to speak.

[Phelix-Mu]

It says right in the warforged description on page 23 of the Eberron Campaign Setting that warforged do not need to eat, breathe, or sleep.

I'm not sure why this was ever in doubt.

Ditto. I wasn't aware that this debate even existed. If the OP would please clarify in what respect this is a revelation or exactly what manner of debates had been occurring, perhaps that would ameliorate the confusion.

[...]

Ditto. I wasn't aware that this debate even existed. If the OP would please clarify in what respect this is a revelation or exactly what manner of debates had been occurring, perhaps that would ameliorate the confusion.

I think it's quite obvious that I do not own Eberron Campaign Setting, so I could not find that out. That said, I have seen a debate on some thread about whether or not a Warforged could survive in a bag of holding, and I'm sure it also came up on one of the Dysfunctional Rules Threads, but either way, I guess this could just be clarification and proof that I read every D&D related product I get back-to-back a minimum of three times. :smalltongue:

[eggynack]

That said, I have seen a debate on some thread about whether or not a Warforged could survive in a bag of holding.
Completely different issue. The question is whether warforged would suffocate in a bag of holding in spite of the fact that they don't need to breathe. The line in particular is, "If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate." As a living creature, the warforged would suffocate, despite the aforementioned rule. Really bag of holding silliness more than warforged silliness.

[Phelix-Mu]

I think it's quite obvious that I do not own Eberron Campaign Setting, so I could not find that out. That said, I have seen a debate on some thread about whether or not a Warforged could survive in a bag of holding, and I'm sure it also came up on one of the Dysfunctional Rules Threads, but either way, I guess this could just be clarification and proof that I read every D&D related product I get back-to-back a minimum of three times. :smalltongue:

My apologies, but it wasn't at all clear that you hadn't read the Eberron Campaign Setting, or apparently MM3, where I believe their entry states the same thing. Or maybe it doesn't; I'm afb atm, and if it doesn't mention in MM3, then perhaps that is where the difficulty comes from.

There was a debate about whether a warforged needs air to speak, or if they could do it underwater (obviously they can't speak in the void). Sorry about the miscommunication.

[Ksheep]

MM3 states that Warforged have "Living Construct" traits, and those traits say that they don't need to breath. So yes, MM3 does state that they don't breath.

That said, the wording of drowning could be misconstrued to indicate that Warforged can indeed drown, but it requires a very literal reading. Specifically, you'd have to say "it doesn't say that creatures that don't need to breath don't make the Constitution checks". As I said, a very literal reading is required, and it's rather obvious that RAI it doesn't work that way, but some people might insist that it's broken. Text in question:


Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description.

When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

[torrasque666]

MM3 states that Warforged have "Living Construct" traits, and those traits say that they don't need to breath. So yes, MM3 does state that they don't breath.

That said, the wording of drowning could be misconstrued to indicate that Warforged can indeed drown, but it requires a very literal reading. Specifically, you'd have to say "it doesn't say that creatures that don't need to breath don't make the Constitution checks". As I said, a very literal reading is required, and it's rather obvious that RAI it doesn't work that way, but some people might insist that it's broken. Text in question:
Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1. See also: Swim skill description.

When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

Well to be fair to the other side, can you hold what does not exist?

[Rubik]

For posterity, "breath" is not a verb. "Breathe" is a verb.

[...]

My apologies, but it wasn't at all clear that you hadn't read the Eberron Campaign Setting, or apparently MM3, where I believe their entry states the same thing. Or maybe it doesn't; I'm afb atm, and if it doesn't mention in MM3, then perhaps that is where the difficulty comes from.

There was a debate about whether a warforged needs air to speak, or if they could do it underwater (obviously they can't speak in the void). Sorry about the miscommunication.

I have MM3, but I haven't read up on the living construct subtype, and I couldn't find anything saying they didn't breath in their entry.

[Rubik]

I have MM3, but I haven't read up on the living construct subtype, and I couldn't find anything saying they didn't breath in their entry.*Sigh* :smallfrown: Whitetext

[holywhippet]

I'm not sure I understand why they'd be in danger from water pressure though. Humans and human like things are because of the pressure difference between our lungs and other internals and the outside water. Unless warforged are completely air tight and have an air pocket inside of them it shouldn't matter I'd have thought.

[torrasque666]

Water exerts a fantastic amount of pressure. The reason why things that sink to the bottom of the ocean are ruined is because, depending on their construction, they can easily be crushed down to the size of a tinfoil ball. This kind of pressure damage is simulated by the whole "1d6 per 100 feet per minute" rule in Stormwrack(and probably the DMG, SW was just the last place I saw it) with aquatic races being able to ignore 500 feet of water(due to having adapted to life that far down). Warforged are built by land based critters, and thus may or may not have been built to withstand more than one or two atmospheres worth of pressure.

TL;DR Differences in pressure can cause issues with our internals, yes. But the sheer weight of all that water is also a thing.

[Silfir]

Lex specialis derogat legi generali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_specialis) - when two given rules clash, the specific rule overrides the general one. "If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate." is the general rule in this case, since it applies to living creatures in general, and Warforged is one. "Warforged do not need to breathe." is the special rule, so it takes precedence.

Any rules framework has its general rules at the top, with heaps upon heaps of exceptions to follow that modify those general rules. The exceptions don't have to be in the same page or even book as the general rule in order to be exceptions and apply as such. That would be extremely cumbersome.

[Psyren]

As a living creature, the warforged would suffocate, despite the aforementioned rule.

Sure they would, but since they don't breathe, suffocation doesn't actually do anything to them.

It would be like if the bag said "living creatures stay awake for 10 minutes, and are then placed into magical slumber." You put an elf in the bag. What happens? They stay awake, that's what.


Lex specialis derogat legi generali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_specialis) - when two given rules clash, the specific rule overrides the general one.

This is the cardinal rule of D&D and needs to be recognized as such.