Ideas for Self-Mutilating/Masochist Enemies

[nakedonmyfoldin]

I was reading the Book of Vile Evil and came across the entries for masochism and self-mutilation. I thought they would make for some very interesting baddies, but I wanted to consult the playground and see if anyone has any good/bad experiences with using these traits for enemies. How would they organize? Why would they want to harm the PCs? Etc. Etc. Thanks in advance!

[Extra Anchovies]

Word of caution, it's very, very difficult to maintain the right sort of atmosphere with this kind of villain. Every time I've been at a session where a self-mutilating villain has made an appearance, their habits have been either ignored, amped up to the point of silliness, or amped up to the point that the players start getting uncomfortable with what's going on. Only send a masochist at the party if you know for sure that the players are okay with that sort of thing showing up in their game (possibly ask them some time beforehand).

ETA: As for how they'd organize/why they'd attack the party: If you do decide to include a masochist-type, you don't necessarily have to apply the masochism shtick to everything they do; usually that will lead to silliness. Have them be wearing a few passive pain-causing things, like armor with inward-pointing spikes or a weapon with a spiked handle, and have them be evil for other reasons. After all, masochism ≠ evil, despite what BoVD would like you to think.

[Eisenheim]

I would take inspiration from real life self-mutilation examples: things like filing teeth to points, scarification instead of tattoos, deliberately aggravated dueling scars, serious body piercing (read up on aztec religion for some horrifying ideas here)

Don't go too gonzo, but show an enemy who's ready to accept more pain than the PCs are comfortable with.

[nakedonmyfoldin]

I agree that the overuse of these qualities would make for a ridiculous encounter (like the Psychos from Borderlands). And I'd like for them to organize for reasons outside of their similar interest in receiving pain. The masochism trait is just an interesting switch from "the followers of x evil god" or "the thugs looking for greater personal wealth".

[Extra Anchovies]

I don't have much in the way of possible BBEO (big bad evil organization) motivations, but I do have an idea for fluffing in the masochism. Maybe the self-inflicted wounds are a way of showing devotion to the group? e.g. when you join you get your first scar, and as you move up in the ranks you acquire more and more tattoos, piercings, and wounds to show how dedicated you are to the organization ("I bleed for the cause" and all).

[SwordChucks]

How about a religious sect that sees suffering as a cleansing of the soul, trying to spread suffering to others so they'll be clean.


The Bitter Tears
The Aching Ones
The Weeping Wounds
The Cat o' Nine
I'm sure you can do better than this :smallbiggrin:

[Vogonjeltz]

I was reading the Book of Vile Evil and came across the entries for masochism and self-mutilation. I thought they would make for some very interesting baddies, but I wanted to consult the playground and see if anyone has any good/bad experiences with using these traits for enemies. How would they organize? Why would they want to harm the PCs? Etc. Etc. Thanks in advance!

Complete Warrior has two prestige classes with this theme, Ravagers (reavers?) and Eye of Gruumsh.

I think both have organizations listed in the same book as well. So you might start looking there. The Ravagers are a marauding band thematically, the eye are very devout orcs.

[Vhaidara]

MM2, IIRC, has the Jovoi (or something like that). They're demons with an Aura of Retribution. They have DR5 and Fast Healing 5.

What the Aura does is that whenever they take damage (from any source, including themselves), they deal that damage to all non-demons within 30ft. So you get a squad of them (advanced if needed) and just have them beat on each other, dealing damage to the PCs.

[Azoth]

Even a difference in organiztion level can be present. Reavers from Firefly are an incredibly "Oh Sh*t!" to normal characters of the series. They practice self mutilation as well as many other things, but do it due to having their agression levels cranked to 11. Some descriptions of their self inflicted wounds include piercing, scarrification, and even going as far as to cut away lips and bisect their tongues. While they aren't truly masochistic in nature as much as completely feral and without much higher reasoning, it gives an idea of what one can endure.

If you look at some other cultures their are hisories upon histories of self mutilation being structured and the members of these groups being well disciplined. The portrayal could be anywhere between the two extremes.

An interesting take on it would be to have a rune scarred berserk leading a pack of barbarians that are covered in scars and other self inflicted wounds. The followers believing that the pain and wounds are a way to gain power like their leader. The leader is the true masochist and ontop of his spell storing scars has several others and maybe even a refluffed nipple clamp of exquisite pain that he wears. Give him a refluffed version of scribe scroll, and have some of the "elite" warriors bare a magical scar or two. Whether they can activate it or not is up to you, but make it obviously magical in nature.

[Talionis]

You've probably thought of it but by binding Dar'ver Nal (sp?) you can have half the damage you do attach to someone else. I could see this as being extremely troublesome for a party to have to choose between doing damage to the BBEG and also do damage to a party member. Especially when the BBEG, probably has ways to regenerate and lots of hit points. His self mutilation and masochism would just be ways of showing the party that they are linked...

[Urpriest]

One potential issue is that if you have any players who are actually masochists they will probably find your portrayal offensive, since the BoVD-style masochist has essentially nothing to do with real masochism. But if you're not risking that the above suggestions apply.

[nakedonmyfoldin]

^ I'm fairly certain I don't dm for any masochists, but i'll keep that in mind.

I should also add that this campaign will have players starting at level 1. Maybe in their first and/or second missions they'll start to notice the involvement of these strange and sinister people pulling the strings on some lower profile mischief; drugs, smuggling, black market, mugging, etc. At some point, this group will tire of the pcs thwarting all of their grassroots work, so they'll send a hit squad or something? This is in the early stages of brainstorming.

These baddies will provide for some very vivid and memorable encounters for the players. NPCs with filed teeth, self-inflicted scars (maybe magical?), and Chelsea grins... Laughing upon receiving damage and begging the players for more. Rolling into battle wearing tightened thumb screws or cilices (sp?). It just provides a lot of new raw material for me to work with.

I still love to hear everyone's thoughts, so comment away!

[atemu1234]

I used rules for body-modifications given in Dragon Magazine (I think it was either #359 or #355) in making a foe that was sadomasochistic.

[Extra Anchovies]

^ I'm fairly certain I don't dm for any masochists, but i'll keep that in mind.

I should also add that this campaign will have players starting at level 1. Maybe in their first and/or second missions they'll start to notice the involvement of these strange and sinister people pulling the strings on some lower profile mischief; drugs, smuggling, black market, mugging, etc. At some point, this group will tire of the pcs thwarting all of their grassroots work, so they'll send a hit squad or something? This is in the early stages of brainstorming.

This seems like a fairly solid idea; criminal rings can provide baddies for a number of different sorts of encounters (fighting street thugs, protecting VIPs from assassins, exposing corrupt politicians, etc.


Laughing upon receiving damage and begging the players for more. Rolling into battle wearing tightened thumb screws or cilices (sp?). It just provides a lot of new raw material for me to work with.

That's the point where it starts getting silly, because the main focus of sadomasochism is on carefully controlled application of pain (specific scar patterns, tooth filing, etc) rather than just ramming yourself through with a sword. Be careful, and don't overuse that stuff.

[nakedonmyfoldin]

ok I can see where taking a great axe to the shoulder wouldn't be enjoyable, even for the most nastiest masochist (seuss). I'll be careful about what types of injuries they "laugh" at. Maybe an arrow or dagger attack that only hits with 1 damage should elicit such a response.

[Warlocknthewind]

Awakened Badger Breserker Strength Barbarians w/ pounce, shock trooper, two levels of ronin, karmic strike, dual strike, with two Viscious Warmaces. Plows AC into the dirt, gets stronger the more they get hurt, and hurt those who hurt them far more.

A totally awful use of feats, but it is a masochistic monster in the first place.

[Talionis]

I think a good analog might be real life Berserkers that would do all types of things to whip themselves up into a rage before a fight. They do things to get adrenaline flowing and to counteract pain. They may say a lot of things for Bravado, and they might also keep fighting with severe damage and talk as if they are enjoying it. Some of it will be a much higher pain tolerance than ordinary people. Some of it will be the adrenaline feeling good as it goes down.

Mechanically, these people will probably need ways to increase their hitpoints and recover hit points. Maybe some sort of healing chant? Because even if they relish the pain they need to be able to take damage and heal up. If they have access to magical healing then it would make sense that they would inflict terrible wounds on themselves and that could make them very different from a Masochist living in real life where they don't have access to magical healing.

S