First time wizard advice? (5th level Eberron)

[Squark]

EDITED: So, I've finally managed to get into a campaign, and I feel like playing a wizard. I was just wondering if the playground had any reccomendations for putting the character together (I know there's another thread like this one around, but this thread started differently). I think I'm going with a Gnome wizard, shooting for Loremaster.

Character Concept: Ederick is a university professor of magic who has recently turned 107 (Not sure where the university is since I'm still talking with the DM). While a respected member of the faculty, Ederick has become increasingly despondent of late, feeling that his life is becoming increasingly mundane, and that his research is going nowhere. On a whim, he takes a sabbatical to work with a group of adventurerers, and becomes caught up in something far larger...

Build: Middle Aged Gnome Wizard 5 [Specialized, but not sure in what because I haven't talked with the other wizard]
Str 9 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 19 Wis 11 Cha 15
Feats: Improved Innitiative, Skill Focus (Knowledge [Arcana])*, Extend Spell
Skills: 8 ranks in Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana, Nature), and Spellcraft. 4 ranks in Use magic device, 8 skill points unspent

*For background reasons. Also, it's a prerequisite for Loremaster, which is a PrC I really like the look of.

So, with that in mind, what sort of items should I be shopping for with the standard 9000 GP? I've gone with a headband of intellect, but what else would be a good idea? For that matter, what should I do with those last 8 skill points, and what would be a good metamagic or item creation feat to pick up next level? EDIT: Oh, and does anyone have any tips for bookkeeping- Like, should I have 3-4 pre-written lists for typical spells prepared?

So, after a couple of weeks of e-mailing back and forth between DMs and players, it looks like I'm finally going to be playing in a proper 3.5 campaign again. I was planning to go with a Wizard, however, it's been ages since I played, and I wasn't a full caster last time. So, I'm curious what the playground's suggestions for a first time wizard player (that is, my first time playing a wizard. I've played in the past and DMed when I was younger).

As far as basic character concept goes, I'm planning on a good-natured professor of magic who finds himself caught up in something much bigger. So, Human Wizard, probably middle aged if my DM is okay with it. The main things I'm having trouble with are feats, specialization, and spell choice.

To begin with, I'm torn with regards to specialization. I don't want to go with summoning or much direct violence (So, Color Spray and Grease are fine, but something like, say, Evard's Black Tentacles, not so much), so as to leave the rest of the party with the glory of actually hitting things with sharp or heavy objects. This means probably either Battlefield control or Support. However, should I go Conjuration or Transmutation, and what schools can I afford to lose?

Feats come after, of course, but apart from Augment Summoning, I don't see a lot for the first level wizard. I guess I could plan ahead and take spell penetration, but Spell Resistance doesn't come up much from level 1-3, does it? I do want to see if I can talk my DM into allowing me to get Able Learner, since it opens up picking up a few ranks in a variety of skills, particularly as my Intelligence score rises.

Finally, we come to spells, and the casting there of. Color Spray, Grease, and Enlarge Person are pretty obvious choices, but what about the rest of my spells? And, more importantly, since I'll only have 3 1st level spells a turn, does anyone have any reccomendations on actually contributing effectively beyond plinking away with a light crossbow most of the time?

[Segev]

Charm Person and Hypnotism can be useful, especially together. Charm somebody, putting them at Friendly, then use Hypnotism to put them all the way up to Fanatic for one suggestion you give them. This suggestion's Fanatic status persists indefinitely (though not necessarily permanently; it can wear off with time naturally).

Use this to Charm yourself a minion or two who'll help meatshield you, or to get somebody fanatically devoted to the idea of doing some task you need done. As a wizard, you can get away with not even investing overly much into this, as it's just two spells in your spellbook that it costs you.

[morkendi]

I have played exactly what you are trying to do, except i played a diviner as I only had to drop 1 school that way. I dropped evocation. 1st lvl, dont forget your crossbow. Elf gets bow free, but i would rather play human for the feat. With what most wizards have in dex, they are just as likely to hit as any melee class. Lower levels, i take atvantage of scribe scroll once I get enough experience to craft some. I always have tons of scrolls with all my utility spells and buffs. I cary a few combat oriented ones as well for when i run low on spell power. Dont forget spells with braud usages like silent image. Prestidigination has tones of useage that noone uses. Ligh oil flask with it and toss.

[Squark]

Charm Person and Hypnotism can be useful, especially together. Charm somebody, putting them at Friendly, then use Hypnotism to put them all the way up to Fanatic for one suggestion you give them. This suggestion's Fanatic status persists indefinitely (though not necessarily permanently; it can wear off with time naturally).

Use this to Charm yourself a minion or two who'll help meatshield you, or to get somebody fanatically devoted to the idea of doing some task you need done. As a wizard, you can get away with not even investing overly much into this, as it's just two spells in your spellbook that it costs you.

ELH isn't core, so fanatic is out, and I'm of the opinion epic level uses of skills should only be available to characters who are actually epic anyway. Also, I kind of pictured the character as being opposed to enchantments on a moral ground. Not set in stone, but it is one of my top choices for schools to ditch.

As for oil, well... Even with firefinger, preparing the fuse takes a full round action and only works 50% of the time (PHB 127- While Firefinger would make lighting the thing easy, I don't think you could prepare the fuse in advance since you'd end up with oil all over yourself unless you were incredibly careful). Craft (Alchemy) isn't a bad idea to get some throwing weapons, though. 2 Weeks and 16.66 GP could net me ~5 vials of Acid if I took 10.

Still, thanks for the swift replies.

I've toyed with going Diviner, it's just that low level core divinations tend to be pretty situational, and that extra first level spell seems like a big help.

[Segev]

If you have a bat familiar, or another familiar with something akin to blindsense which can locate targets, you could cast Obscuring Mist on it, send it in to blind everything, and have it call out in the square where a target rests. Then use True Strike and your crossbow to snipe them with +20 to hit and no miss chance.

You can also use Silent Image of an Obscuring Mist, and let your party know it's an illusion via some sort of secret signal. They'll get a save at +4, which, if they make, they'll be able to see through the illusion. Enemy creatures who fail the save (or who fail to have reason to make it) will be largely blind.

[Dalebert]

I recommend a spear for your melee weapon. Presumably you won't be fighting much, but if an enemy does close with you, you'll get an AoO first due to 10' reach. See if you can talk your Enlarge Person target into a reach weapon also (falchions seem nice). Then they'll end up with 15' reach for obscene AoOs. Reduce and Enlarge P are nice wand options because they don't need a high CL to be effective in most combats (1 turn duration at CL 1, no save issues) but I realize that's not until later. If you do go with Craft Wand later, def make a wand of MM in place of ploinking with a crossbow, or maybe a wand of Sunstroke but undead and some other things will be immune. Sunstroke is also just a nice option at 1st level to get in 2d6 dmg automatically though nonlethal but who cares? Just get it down and out of combat. The debuff is icing. It's not as nice at higher CL compared to orbs or MM.

[Squark]

If you have a bat familiar, or another familiar with something akin to blindsense which can locate targets, you could cast Obscuring Mist on it, send it in to blind everything, and have it call out in the square where a target rests. Then use True Strike and your crossbow to snipe them with +20 to hit and no miss chance. Empathic Link doesn't work like that. Is there a third step I'm missing?


You can also use Silent Image of an Obscuring Mist, and let your party know it's an illusion via some sort of secret signal. They'll get a save at +4, which, if they make, they'll be able to see through the illusion. Enemy creatures who fail the save (or who fail to have reason to make it) will be largely blind.

This is a possibility, but my DM could easily rule that my party members behaving as though the illusion isn't there is enough to give the enemies a second save for interaction.

[Gray Mage]

At the very first levels Daze is ok, you basically trade your action for an enemie's. Also, in my experience as damage piles quickly in low levels and healing is scarce there won't be many combat encounters in the same day.

As for specialization, you don't need to have one if you want to. But if you do pick one and doesn't want a lot of direct damage, you can safelly drop evocation. Not sure about the other one, that'd depend on what you prefer (buffing or debuffing) and what other classes there are in the party.

[Vogonjeltz]

So, after a couple of weeks of e-mailing back and forth between DMs and players, it looks like I'm finally going to be playing in a proper 3.5 campaign again. I was planning to go with a Wizard, however, it's been ages since I played, and I wasn't a full caster last time. So, I'm curious what the playground's suggestions for a first time wizard player (that is, my first time playing a wizard. I've played in the past and DMed when I was younger).

As far as basic character concept goes, I'm planning on a good-natured professor of magic who finds himself caught up in something much bigger. So, Human Wizard, probably middle aged if my DM is okay with it. The main things I'm having trouble with are feats, specialization, and spell choice.

To begin with, I'm torn with regards to specialization. I don't want to go with summoning or much direct violence (So, Color Spray and Grease are fine, but something like, say, Evard's Black Tentacles, not so much), so as to leave the rest of the party with the glory of actually hitting things with sharp or heavy objects. This means probably either Battlefield control or Support. However, should I go Conjuration or Transmutation, and what schools can I afford to lose?

Feats come after, of course, but apart from Augment Summoning, I don't see a lot for the first level wizard. I guess I could plan ahead and take spell penetration, but Spell Resistance doesn't come up much from level 1-3, does it? I do want to see if I can talk my DM into allowing me to get Able Learner, since it opens up picking up a few ranks in a variety of skills, particularly as my Intelligence score rises.

Finally, we come to spells, and the casting there of. Color Spray, Grease, and Enlarge Person are pretty obvious choices, but what about the rest of my spells? And, more importantly, since I'll only have 3 1st level spells a turn, does anyone have any reccomendations on actually contributing effectively beyond plinking away with a light crossbow most of the time?

I suppose there's always the question of Why specialize? Does it fit with your character concept? Speaking of which, what kind of Professor of Magic is he?

Here's a couple character concepts:

1) Merlin/Erasmus/Quest for Glory type: A generalist, pick up classic spells

2) Lecturer: Enchantment focus, a people person, maybe a manipulator (Charm Person, Hypnotism, etc...)

3) Researcher: Transmutation focus (likes to tinker with things)

Whatever you do, I'd encourage you to flesh out your backstory by thinking about what types of classes they teach (if any) and what captures their interest when they go into the field.

I'd avoid summon Monster I, at 1st level it only lasts 1 round and it takes an entire round to cast. That's not great on return. Later when the summons last entire combats, maybe, but initially it's high risk/low reward.

Grease has similar problems, it only lasts 1 round, so the return on expending a spell slot isn't really great.

I'd go with Sleep for early levels. It takes a little longer to cast, but it's also an early save or lose that can be done from a safe range. Outside of that, your cantrips are still somewhat dangerous enough at early levels, though it's going to be more lethal to use the heavy crossbow if you want to conserve spells.

I prefer to drop Necromancy and Illusion if specializing, though you might want to drop Evocation if you have no interest in direct damage spells.

[Galen]

Conjuration specialist, drop necromancy and evocation.

Level 0 best spells: Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Daze
Level 1 best spells: Grease, Color Spray, Mage Armor



If you have a bat familiar, or another familiar with something akin to blindsense which can locate targets, you could cast Obscuring Mist on it, send it in to blind everything, and have it call out in the square where a target rests. Then use True Strike and your crossbow to snipe them with +20 to hit and no miss chance.

You can also use Silent Image of an Obscuring Mist, and let your party know it's an illusion via some sort of secret signal. They'll get a save at +4, which, if they make, they'll be able to see through the illusion. Enemy creatures who fail the save (or who fail to have reason to make it) will be largely blind.

It doesn't work because rules

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires

[incarnate236]

I've played several 3.x wizards, sorcerers, and psions and had a lot of time to work with this issue.

Race: Gnomes are great if your thinking of indirect spells for the illusion bonus (color spray, minor image at level 1) and fit the professor motif. The con bonus is also great for making you less squishy.

Specialization is a must get rid of evocation, enchantment or necromancy.

Spells:Although it becomes kind of useless by level 3, sleep/cause fear are great spells at 1st level if you can get your int high enough to win most checks. You can end encounters with 1 casting and fight more battles throughout the day. Grease and color spray are good staples as well although since you're a wizard getting everything is simple enough over time. Depending on your dm mage hand/prestidigitation can cause a lot of problems for a level 0 (unbuckle someones belt, pop the trigger on a crossbow, obscure their vision etc.)

Feat: Improved Initiative is a must. Go first put everyone to sleep/ hit with color spray. Then let the fighter coup d'grace.

Gear: Buy a guard dog. Every round ready an attack against anyone who approaches you. Once they're close use to trip enemies and then watch your fighter cut them apart. Reach weapons are great if you can find a way to get a trip weapon even better.

[Squark]

Generalist has its appeal, but ultimately I really don't want to start with 2 1st level spells a day, and specialist helps a lot with levels 1-4 by giving you 2-3 extra spells per day.

Banned Schools... I really like Illusions, and enchantment seems to have too many low level goodies to do without. That leaves Necromancy and Evocation, I guess, which do fit the character's temperament I guess.

[Galen]

Sleep is problematic due to the casting time of "1 round". This means that every enemy gets to act once before you finish casting. Also, if you're lucky to get a surprise round, you can't cast it during the surprise round because you're limited to a standard action.

[ace rooster]

Surviving? Expeditions retreat. Don't forget about the withdraw action. Contributing? Masters touch can allow you to move and fire a longbow, or a net if you want to do something wierd. You will be a bit less effective than a primary archer, but not much. Masters touch is also a swift action, so less useful in scroll form. Enlarge person is pretty much a given for impact on a fight that doesn't either end it or do nothing. Ray of enfeeblement is also effective, but you will only have a range of 25ft, so is much riskier.

Minionmancy is possible, but expect the DM to throw books at you.

[morkendi]

At first lvl, i useally med silient image and color spray as these useally handle most situations in some way. Silent image stays up as long as you concentrate. The way my dm does this is you have to spend one of your actions to maintain the illusion. I usally make an illusion of the wall or like a boulder or tree to stand in. Combat round comes, i use my move action to load crossbow and combat to maintain image. Next round i fire and the use move action to maintain illusion. This way i fire every other turn. It also autonigates mindless things. If they see a wall, they wouldn't get a save really. You face some skeletons. But a box around them and walk by. They dont see you and have no reason to interact with a wall.

[incarnate236]

Sleep is problematic due to the casting time of "1 round". This means that every enemy gets to act once before you finish casting. Also, if you're lucky to get a surprise round, you can't cast it during the surprise round because you're limited to a standard action.

True but it still works well indoors if you plug a door and let the goblins swarm at you or if you don't mind using a cleric as bait. As for surprise rounds it depends on your DM I guess my DM's have been pretty ok with me using sleep to ambush if my party delayed action till after my spell.

[sideswipe]

survivable at level 1? i then suggest a focused specialist conjurer with abrupt jaunt, wield a small spiked chain, its one handed, your not going to attack with it ever so ignore that its -6 to attack rolls with it.
take 2 flaws, one being combat reflexes and have enough dex for a couple extra attacks of opportunity.
the other being evasive reflexes, every AoO can now instead be a 5ft step, use this to step away if you run out of abrupt jaunts.

your a focused conjurer so you have a large amount of offensive magic. this works even better if you cast enlarge person and have a 20ft reach instead.

this is not good for a long term character, you just said survivable at low levels. by the time you get anything to surpass this regularly you can just retrain or pay for a psychic reformation (or new character).

[Squark]

Err... guys? It says Core in the title. Focused Conjurer/Abrupt Jaunt/Sunstroke aren't core. So not really helping here.

[Divide by Zero]

survivable at level 1? i then suggest a focused specialist conjurer with abrupt jaunt, wield a small spiked chain, its one handed, your not going to attack with it ever so ignore that its -6 to attack rolls with it.
take 2 flaws, one being combat reflexes and have enough dex for a couple extra attacks of opportunity.
the other being evasive reflexes, every AoO can now instead be a 5ft step, use this to step away if you run out of abrupt jaunts.

your a focused conjurer so you have a large amount of offensive magic. this works even better if you cast enlarge person and have a 20ft reach instead.

this is not good for a long term character, you just said survivable at low levels. by the time you get anything to surpass this regularly you can just retrain or pay for a psychic reformation (or new character).

Contributing and Surviving as a Level 1 Wizard (Core for now)

Edit: swordsage'd by the OP

[Segev]

Well, I had mistakenly thought Obscuring Mist could target something other than you as its center, hence my mistaken belief you could cast it on your familiar.

Alteration to the approach, then: Cast it, keep bat with you. Bat blindsenses where a target is, and points its wing in the right direction. You now know where to shoot (as you can see your familiar pointing). There is no need for empathic link except to help facilitate communication of what you want the bat to do to indicate the location.

[Judge_Worm]

I'd say focused transmuter or abjurer, taking enchantment and evocation as banned schools. Later on transmuters get decent attack spells in their own right, you can still use summoning, and you can clear up the party healer (assuming you have one) by handling all the buffing or you can be the party heal-bot if you need one. This way you won't overshadow the rest of the party, but you can still have fun by coming up with creative uses for your spells.

[ace rooster]

Well, I had mistakenly thought Obscuring Mist could target something other than you as its center, hence my mistaken belief you could cast it on your familiar.

Alteration to the approach, then: Cast it, keep bat with you. Bat blindsenses where a target is, and points its wing in the right direction. You now know where to shoot (as you can see your familiar pointing). There is no need for empathic link except to help facilitate communication of what you want the bat to do to indicate the location.

It works fine, one of the quirks of share spell is that it allows you to cast personal spells on your familiar and share it back. The spell then stays with your familiar rather than you.

[Segev]

It works fine, one of the quirks of share spell is that it allows you to cast personal spells on your familiar and share it back. The spell then stays with your familiar rather than you.

Yeah, but as somebody else pointed out, if the familiar goes more than 5 ft. from you, the shared spell ends.

[Daishain]

Yeah, but as somebody else pointed out, if the familiar goes more than 5 ft. from you, the shared spell ends.
Nope, that's not what it says.

You can cast it on yourself, and your familiar also gets the benefit if within 5'
or
You can cast it on your familiar, and you also get the benefit if within 5' (even if the spell's target is usually personal)

The spell's duration is set regardless of where you guys move. The only thing that ends is that the other half no longer gets the benefit.

To put it another way, lets say I cast shield on my raven familiar rather than myself. We both enjoy the benefits to begin with. She flies away, and then comes back. I no longer benefit from the effects of the spell, even though the raven is again within 5', but the spell is still active on her.

[Segev]

Nope, that's not what it says.

You can cast it on yourself, and your familiar also gets the benefit if within 5'
or
You can cast it on your familiar, and you also get the benefit if within 5' (even if the spell's target is usually personal)

The spell's duration is set regardless of where you guys move. The only thing that ends is that the other half no longer gets the benefit.

To put it another way, lets say I cast shield on my raven familiar rather than myself. We both enjoy the benefits to begin with. She flies away, and then comes back. I no longer benefit from the effects of the spell, even though the raven is again within 5', but the spell is still active on her.

Interesting. You are almost correct. And for purposes of the Obscuring Mist cast on the familiar, you are quite correct.

The one bit on which you're not quite right is that, if you cast it on your Familiar instead of yourself, it is not shared with you. Nothing in the rules says it is. It only says it's shared with your familiar if you cast it on yourself, not the other way around.

Still, a good point and find.


...one problem, though. Obscuring Mist doesn't say "Target: You" or "Personal," it says its effect is an emanation centered on you. I am not sure that can be shifted to your familiar.



edit: Actually, Obscuring Mist specifies that the mist arises around you...but that it's stationary once created. So drop it and then get out, I guess. Maybe use a steed to move faster. Have your familiar fly over the top of the mist to identify squares directly beneath it as having valid targets.

[Dalebert]

Sleep is problematic due to the casting time of "1 round". This means that every enemy gets to act once before you finish casting. Also, if you're lucky to get a surprise round, you can't cast it during the surprise round because you're limited to a standard action.

Are you sure about that? I thought you can still start casting it. Then it would go off on your turn the next round and you would be left with only a standard action the next round. It's still taking a full round to cast -- one move action and a standard.

[Squark]

So, uh, as the revised thread title and OP say, plans change, and I'm probably going to be joining an existing group that split in two. I still plan to go wizard, but it looks like I'm starting at level 5, and in an Eberron campaign, which seems ideal for a University Professor on sabattical to find himself caught up in something big.


Hrrm... Going to have to play around a bit with ideas now, and ask the DM if he wants me to stick with just the ECS, PHB, and DMG, or if I can pick stuff from the Spell and Magic Item compendiums.

[Galen]

Are you sure about that? I thought you can still start casting it. Then it would go off on your turn the next round and you would be left with only a standard action the next round. It's still taking a full round to cast -- one move action and a standard.

Unfortunately not, if you split a full-round action over two rounds, it cost you two standards, not standard+move.

The "start full-round action" standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action.
So, during the surprise round, you take a standard to start casting Sleep. Then:

Best case: you win initiative during the normal round, and finish casting Sleep. At the cost of two rounds.
Worst case: you lose initiative, and every enemy gets to have a go while you're casting.

[Afgncaap5]

See if your DM will let you use Magic of Eberron as well. It really expands on some of the different kinds of flavors of magic that Eberron uses (elemental binding, dragonshard use, draconic prophecy manipulation, etc.)

If not, I recommend taking a look at some of the magic items from the ECS. If you keep thinking Diviner wizard, take a special look at the Scrying Shard and the normal material focus required for casting Scrying, while keeping the rules of Eberron shards in mind. In another campaign setting, after you pay 1000 GP for the focus mirror, that'd cost you 28,000 gp and nearly two months to build (if my math is right. 4th level spell X CL 7 X 2000 for market price?). In Eberron, you pay 1000 gp for a large dragonshard, and then 100 gp imbuing the shard with the scrying spell for one day. Easy for a diviner to make (or any wizard, really.) There's also the Aureon Shard spellbook, but I don't know if the extra capacity is really worth the price tag.

[Squark]

Well, I'm almost certainly specializing, since it looks like we have two wizards in the party. Just asked the DM if I could get in touch with the other wizard's player. MoE, Spell Compendium, and the Completes are in...

Err... What are the odds of this turning into something along the lines of a Batman-Iron Man teamup*? It'd be kind of awkward if we end up with two reasonably optimized wizards and Joe Fighter who took weapon focus and weapon specialization (Bastard Sword).


*I freely admit to only middling levels of Batman knowledge, and far less Iron Man knowledge. You get the analogy, though, right?

[Afgncaap5]

Iron Man and Batman? Eberron's the closest campaign setting for that, to be sure. While I mentally balk at the idea of replicating Batman through magical means, a wizard (or maybe combat-casting class) with the Master Inquisitive prestige class could definitely be Batman-esque. And Iron Man could definitely be done by a wizard (or even more effectively as an Artificer who's had lots of crafting time.)

[Squark]

Iron Man and Batman? Eberron's the closest campaign setting for that, to be sure. While I mentally balk at the idea of replicating Batman through magical means, a wizard (or maybe combat-casting class) with the Master Inquisitive prestige class could definitely be Batman-esque. And Iron Man could definitely be done by a wizard (or even more effectively as an Artificer who's had lots of crafting time.)

Heh. I meant more with regards to it seeming like you've got two Superheroes with an answer for anything, teamed up with Joe the Sword and Board fighter and Max the rogue.