warlock/bard help

[lvl 1 human]

I have a friend that is intereated in trying his hand as dm. as long time group dm i am excited to actually make a character to play
my question is this: is this a good build idea? i don't want it to be too ppwerful or too weak, from a rp perspective i was/am a merchant and i stumbled upon (insert ominous thing here) and became a warlock, he will become a lore bard eventually but mostly i am wondering what levels i should be in each.

[Yagyujubei]

there are break points every two levels for warlock early on.

2 gets you eldritch blast, patron feature and a spell slot with access to some of the most powerful 1st level spells in game.

4 gets you ability modifier, 2 invocations, boon pact and 2 spell slots with 2nd level spells.

6 gets you your second patron feature, 3rd lvl spells, and another invocation. going past 6 isn't worth it at all if you're going main warlock with another dip.

so a 4 dip is probably the best bang for your buck a bard could take, BUT a 2 lvl dip will get you those last two magical secrets on bard at the expense of losing one ability improvement.

I would personally go bard 16/warlock 4 esp if you're going lore college due to the extra magical secrets you'll get anyway. this build yields possibly the most versatile caster in the game.

[Ferrin33]

Do you want to be a more melee-focused gish that casts spells, a flexible caster that has a bigger spell pool per day depending on how many short rests he gets, or do you want to mainly focus on higher level spells? What kind of gameplay are you looking for? And at what level are you starting, and to what level do you think the campaign will go?


there are break points every two levels for warlock early on.

2 gets you eldritch blast, patron feature and a spell slot with access to some of the most powerful 1st level spells in game.

4 gets you ability modifier, 2 invocations, boon pact and 2 spell slots with 2nd level spells.

6 gets you your second patron feature, 3rd lvl spells, and another invocation. going past 6 isn't worth it at all if you're going main warlock with another dip.

so a 4 dip is probably the best bang for your buck a bard could take, BUT a 2 lvl dip will get you those last two magical secrets on bard at the expense of losing one ability improvement.

I would personally go bard 16/warlock 4 esp if you're going lore college due to the extra magical secrets you'll get anyway. this build yields possibly the most versatile caster in the game.

Going warlock 4 as opposed to warlock 2 gives you:

Ability score increase, cantrip, 2 spells known(2 of which are 2nd level), and your recharging spell slots are 2nd level instead of 1st.

In return you're one spell level higher with your bard at all times and gain its features faster as well. You'd have a two level delay on your ability score improvement compared to going warlock 4 and have one less option with it by level 20, but the higher level spells are not to be underestimated.

[Yagyujubei]

if he's going college of lore he's probably going for a caster I would guess.

valor would be better for gish due to the extra attack and battle magic or whatever it's call

EDIT: The only thing going 18 over 16 in bard gets you is improves song of rest, 1 9th level slot, and the magical secrets. imho that doesn't offset the benefits of invocations, pact boon, and an ability bump(which is specifically important since you get so few in this edition). the higher level spell slots are just icing.

[Ferrin33]

if he's going college of lore he's probably going for a caster I would guess.

valor would be better for gish due to the extra attack and battle magic or whatever it's call

He might still favor College of Lore if he goes Warlock 3 for the pact blade + extra attack invocation, perhaps taking a fifth level in warlock to eventually take Lifedrinker. This does depend on your DM whether the prerequisites are character level or warlock level.



EDIT: The only thing going 18 over 16 in bard gets you is improves song of rest, 1 9th level slot, and the magical secrets. imho that doesn't offset the benefits of invocations, pact boon, and an ability bump(which is specifically important since you get so few in this edition). the higher level spell slots are just icing.

A 9th level spell slot, 5th level spell slot, one 9th level spell known, one 8th level spell known + any other two spells from any list of any level, and song of rest to d12 which admittedly is worse. Also delaying your maximum spell level by another two levels is also detrimental while you're on your way actually getting there. The only benefit warlock 4 gives over 2 is as I said before: level bump from 1 to 2 for your short rest spells, ability score increase, one extra cantrip, and two extra 2nd level spells known.

[Yagyujubei]

true, but even if the second attack would be wasted from valor, the battle magic would still be nice. a double attack and then a spell is pretty baller.

on a side note, does anyone know how lifedrinker interacts with haste? I know it doesn't stack with extra attacks granted from fighter as the example. but if you're hasted and get an extra action which can be anything, and take a second individual attack action, would you still get the double atk from lifedrinker? I feel like you would personally, but I'm not sure.

[lvl 1 human]

The idea is that i was tricked into the pact and i am going lore to find more secrets on how to retract from the pact so want to be a pushover in melee but sort of a loremaster with higher level spells

[Ferrin33]

true, but even if the second attack would be wasted from valor, the battle magic would still be nice. a double attack and then a spell is pretty baller.

on a side note, does anyone know how lifedrinker interacts with haste? I know it doesn't stack with extra attacks granted from fighter as the example. but if you're hasted and get an extra action which can be anything, and take a second individual attack action, would you still get the double atk from lifedrinker? I feel like you would personally, but I'm not sure.

How did you come to the conclusion that Lifedrinker(Charisma modifier to damage) doesn't stack with fighter extra attacks? If you meant Thirsting Blade then yes, it doesn't stack with "Extra Attack" class features. It's separate from haste, which allows the buffed person one addtional action in a round limited to one attack, or any of the other things you can do with a single action. Of course Thirsting Blade(Which grants you an extra attack) does not work with the extra action granted by haste, but you will get a total of 3 attacks if you have haste; Action 1: Attack once with weapon, allowed another attack from Thirsting Blade. Action 2 from Haste: Attack once with weapon, no extra attack allowed.



The idea is that i was tricked into the pact and i am going lore to find more secrets on how to retract from the pact so want to be a pushover in melee but sort of a loremaster with higher level spells

Then Warlock 2/Bard18 is the way to go. Probably pick up Agonizing Blast and Armor of Shadows as invocations. (My personal favorite spell is Armor of Agathys, works great with high level spells)

[Yagyujubei]

I did mean thirsting blade yeah. and seconded armor of agathys, although it really shines more on melee characters it's an insanely good spell.

[lvl 1 human]

As far as what level the campaign will end i have no idea. but i am more of a form over ffunction player... would a warlock 4(with grimoir) and bard 16(or whatever is left) be at least viable?

[Ferrin33]

I did mean thirsting blade yeah. and seconded armor of agathys, although it really shines more on melee characters it's an insanely good spell.

Armor of Agathys is good regardless of whether you're melee or ranged. It makes people not want to attack you with melee attacks.

[Yagyujubei]

yeah but if you're hurling spells from long range chances are much more likely that you'll be targeted by other ranged attackers, in which case half of the spell is going to waste.

[Ferrin33]

yeah but if you're hurling spells from long range chances are much more likely that you'll be targeted by other ranged attackers, in which case half of the spell is going to waste.

But even then it is a big chunk of extra toughness, and it is always a good thing to restrict your opponent's choices(In this case using melee effectively).

[DCraw]

As far as what level the campaign will end i have no idea. but i am more of a form over ffunction player... would a warlock 4(with grimoir) and bard 16(or whatever is left) be at least viable?

Viable? Certainly.

Optimal? Debatable, probably not. Not that far off, though.