What can you do with a sorcerer besides being a blaster?

[Rfkannen]

So a bunch of threads talk about how a sorcerrer can be built to do one thing and do it very well. However noone talks about what that thing should be. Usualy when I see someone actualy talk about sorcerer in less vague manners they are always talking blasters. And that got me thinking why is that? are non blasting sorcerer just not as good as wizards? I mean their are some cool tricks, alter self and actor for one, but I don't know, what do you think a sorceress can be good for besides damage?

[Human Paragon 3]

I think sorcerer could be optimized into a pretty good spy, focussing on illusions and enchantments, then twinning and extending them. Maximized sleep sounds fun, and more subtle than maximized fireball. Extending out your disguise spells or enchantments would definitely be helpful. You also have much more staying power than any other caster since you can turn sorcery points into slots when you're running low.

[Edge of Dreams]

Battlefield control and debuff spells can be quite strong.

Take Banishment, for example. It's a 4th level spell that either sends the target back to its home plane (instant win against certain foes) or sends it to a harmless demi-plane for up to 1 minute (with Concentration). Now, imagine you're up against a nasty group of four nasty Frost Giants - Twin Banishment removes half of them from the fight. Kill the other two over the next < 10 rounds, then have the whole party ready actions to attack/blast the other two when your spell ends.

[m4th]

I think sorcerer could be optimized into a pretty good spy, focussing on illusions and enchantments, then twinning and extending them. Maximized sleep sounds fun, and more subtle than maximized fireball. Extending out your disguise spells or enchantments would definitely be helpful. You also have much more staying power than any other caster since you can turn sorcery points into slots when you're running low.

No maximize, sleep can't be empowered because it doesn't deal damage. The most powerful metamagic is, in my experience, heighten. One round of nearly guaranteed Hold Person or Blindness gives your damage dealer types plenty of time to lay the utter smackdown on boss-types. The reason I wouldn't recommend using empower is because draconic bloodline + elemental adept feat gives you plenty of blaster power without spending sorcery points.

Essentially, a sorcerer can be a powerful anything. Convert lower level spells into metamagic to buff high level spells, or convert high level spells into lower level spell slots and cast all day.

[Theodoxus]

The advantage of sorcerer is their small spell pool. It means to be optimal, you're going to want to specialize. Fortunately, each school is fairly well stocked so you can play any way you want to.

However, Evocation and Transmutation are the largest schools for Sorcerer, having 29 spells to choose from each (or twice as many as you can actually know, in each school). I think that, on top of the draconic bloodline, influences peoples direction to go towards blasting.

I played an enchantment specialized sorcerer in a pathfinder game that was quite fun. Not destructive in the least, but a real show stopper with battlefield control and enemy neutralization. I can certainly see picking up that mantle again in 5th and having just as much fun.

[Ferrin33]

The advantage of sorcerer is their small spell pool. It means to be optimal, you're going to want to specialize. Fortunately, each school is fairly well stocked so you can play any way you want to.

However, Evocation and Transmutation are the largest schools for Sorcerer, having 29 spells to choose from each (or twice as many as you can actually know, in each school). I think that, on top of the draconic bloodline, influences peoples direction to go towards blasting.

I played an enchantment specialized sorcerer in a pathfinder game that was quite fun. Not destructive in the least, but a real show stopper with battlefield control and enemy neutralization. I can certainly see picking up that mantle again in 5th and having just as much fun.

The limited spell pool limits the sorcerer. A sorcerer relies on its' metamagic and versatility with its spell slots. In no way does the limited spell pool benefit the sorcerer. Just needed that off my chest. :smallfrown:

[DrLemniscate]

The indefinite flying time while outdoors seems pretty nice.

Since it doesn't take your concentration like Fly does, you can also have Invisibility up.

Makes for the perfect scout. Or sniper using Distant Spell metamagic combined with Spell Sniper feat for triple range (Warlock 2 gets you a 900ft range Eldritch Blast).

[Ferrin33]

The indefinite flying time while outdoors seems pretty nice.

Since it doesn't take your concentration like Fly does, you can also have Invisibility up.

Makes for the perfect scout. Or sniper using Distant Spell metamagic combined with Spell Sniper feat for triple range (Warlock 2 gets you a 900ft range Eldritch Blast).

Well, I'd assume most DM's would rule that flapping those wings would make quite a bit of noise. It's not like you move around like a wraith, you need to flap them hard!

[Rfkannen]

Cool ideas. Hay slightly unrelated but could a sorcerer based off of close ranged touch spells work?

[Ferrin33]

Cool ideas. Hay slightly unrelated but could a sorcerer based off of close ranged touch spells work?

Well, I guess it could but I don't see any reason why you would want to limit your offensive spell pool to just ranged touch spells. You do have the Spell Sniper feat for it though, so there's that.

[Rfkannen]

Well, I guess it could but I don't see any reason why you would want to limit your offensive spell pool to just ranged touch spells. You do have the Spell Sniper feat for it though, so there's that.

Hmm. Yeah i am not sure what I was thinking of, but I meant like a sorcerer who is realy tanky and walks up to people and zaps them, not sure what thats cald.

[Ferrin33]

Hmm. Yeah i am not sure what I was thinking of, but I meant like a sorcerer who is realy tanky and walks up to people and zaps them, not sure what thats cald.

It's probably not a sorcerer, but you might be able to make it work with some multiclassing for some toughness, paladin perhaps? Or maybe an eldritch knight instead of a sorcerer? If you want melee enemies to fear you Armor of Agathys is a nice spell you can pick up with warlock2(warlock 1 is possible too, but 2 just gives so much more). It also gives you the glorious Eldritch Blast, which you can then use your metamagic abilities with from the sorcerer.

[Sartharina]

It means to be optimal, you're going to want to specialize.I'm not sure this follows. Given a sorcerer's flexibility with spells (Metamagic and the like), it's more likely that they'd be more interested in choosing spells that allow them to cover more bases. You only need one or two spells that do any given job, then twist and scale them to flavor with Metamagic and Spell Slots. (That said - I really wish Sorcerers could make Higher-than-5th level spells with their sorcery points)

They have absolutely NO incentive to stick within a single theme or school of their magic.

[Ferrin33]

I'm not sure this follows. Given a sorcerer's flexibility with spells (Metamagic and the like), it's more likely that they'd be more interested in choosing spells that allow them to cover more bases. You only need one or two spells that do any given job, then twist and scale them to flavor with Metamagic and Spell Slots. (That said - I really wish Sorcerers could make Higher-than-5th level spells with their sorcery points)

They have absolutely NO incentive to stick within a single theme or school of their magic.

Exactly, the only thing that determines the more optimal spell choices are their choices in archetype, metamagic and multiclassing. Sorcerers do not care about schools of magic one bit, they just do "magic".

[Chaosvii7]

Cool ideas. Hay slightly unrelated but could a sorcerer based off of close ranged touch spells work?

No, because touch armor class doesn't exist in this edition. :smalltongue:

Also, I don't think there's a term for what you're looking for, so feel free to invent it. I was going to suggest a gish, but those are really spellcasters who buff themselves up to become melee monsters, not really what you're going for but really a gish is any sort of wizard/fighter hybrid.

[DrLemniscate]

Well, I'd assume most DM's would rule that flapping those wings would make quite a bit of noise. It's not like you move around like a wraith, you need to flap them hard!

I was thinking of scouting from afar. But that does remind of a suggestion for an Invisibility Cloak I saw recently; the cloak makes you less visible, the more noisy you are.

[Rummy]

Twin Spell makes Sorcerers by far the best buffers in the game. Twinned Haste or Fly at level 5. Twinned greater invisibility at level 7.

[Symphony]

On the subject of free Flight, while it may not be all that practical (like, at all), a Sorcerer can use Telekinesis to lift a creature into the air with them while bombarding the creature with attacks (with advantage, because it's restrained).

If they managed to break free, they'll end up taking falling damage. Of course, because falling damage is capped at 200 feet (20d6), there isn't any point in attempting to drag a creature the full 3000 feet into the air, but if you stay at 100 feet in the air and use Distant Spell, every 7 turns (up to 14 times) you can pick up a creature (the same creature, even) and drop it from 200 feet up while attacking it with cantrips (so that it costs only a single 5th level spell slot altogether) the entire time.

Unfortunately, the likelihood of even a weak creature repeatedly failing the strength contest enough times to make this work is probably quite slim. In fact, I can't imagine doing this ever being a good idea, but it might be fun.

[Person_Man]

You might want to peruse through this list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371892-List-of-Useful-and-Powerful-Spells) of useful and powerful spells as a starting point. I agree with Sartharina and others, and think that Sorcerers should basically pick 1 spell for each task.

In particular, I would suggest making sure that you be able to target each of the six Ability Score Saves, get a Conjure spell, Counterspell, and Wish. Then just fill in the rest with whatever utility, buffs, or fun stuff you enjoy.