Summoning a Huge creature within a Huge creature

[Orick]

So I'm running a small module with plant based enemies for my party and we've run into a little problem.

Our Cleric was swallowed by a Tendriculos (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Tendriculos) and decided the best course of action would be to use a scroll of Summon Monster III (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonMonsterIII.htm) to summon a Huge monstrous centipede inside the other huge creature.

I've heard stories about this sort of thing but I just can't find anything rules-wise that says he can't do it nor anything that says what happens after.

My inclination is to use the rules in Enlarge Person (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Enlarge_Person) and make the Centipede make a STR Check to see if he can get out, but they take up the same space initially so I also thought the spell might fail.

I'm not sure how to rule this.

Thanks for any help!

[sleepyphoenixx]

It doesn't work.

Conjuration

Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool), actually transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling), heal (healing), transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation), or create objects or effects on the spot (creation). Creatures you conjure usually, but not always, obey your commands.

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.

Emphasis mine.

[Orick]

Okay thanks!

Didn't think to look there.

[Fitz10019]

It doesn't work.


Emphasis mine.
By RAW, you are correct.

In my opinion, though, the RAI is to prevent conjuring an elemental inside another creature when the caster is on the outside. I would wave this very clearly rule when the caster is on the inside of the creature. I feel you can always conjure something next to you (unless there's specifically anti-conjuration magic at work).

That said, the caster should get some crushing damage when this happens.

I like the OP's Enlarge Person idea, but that applies to solid passageways. You might instead consider an opposed Str check. If the centipede wins, it is regurgitated and does slashing damage as it emerges. If the swallower wins, the cent gets crushing damage.

I know I'm out in left field here, but the OP didn't really ask for RAW.

[Cybris75]

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object


Does that mean I can't summon/teleport into a house, a closet, a hourse carriage, a cart??

[sleepyphoenixx]

Does that mean I can't summon/teleport into a house, a closet, a hourse carriage, a cart??

Assuming the question is actually serious, of course you can. You just can't summon a monster that would be partially or completely in a wall or in another creatures space. If your closet is at least 10ft wide you can summon up to a medium creature (assuming you're standing in it, too).The same if there's room in the carriage or cart.
You just can't summon a huge monster into a 10ft x 10ft room.

[HighWater]

I know I'm out in left field here, but the OP didn't really ask for RAW.
I'm not so sure about that (emphasis mine):

I've heard stories about this sort of thing but I just can't find anything rules-wise that says he can't do it nor anything that says what happens after.
[...]
I'm not sure how to rule this.

Thanks for any help!

Anyhow, the RAW is you cannot summon a creature inside another creature. Doing so from the outside is technically already prevented by the "line of effect" issues, but I can see how this clause could be an affirmation of that, rather than the prevention of summoning a creature once swallowed by another creature. That said, the spell itself also provides very helpful RAW:

Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them.
I think it's safe to say that summoning a huge creature into the stomach of another huge creature is not summoning it into a "supportive environment" for the simple reason that the summoned creature just won't fit. This alone is plenty of reason to say that the spell fizzles. Summoning a creature that would fit size-wise, would be okay in my book.

[Fitz10019]

I believe that 'support' requirement is meant to avoid summons used as bombs dropped on enemies. Basically, you can't summon a non-flying creature into mid-air, or summon anything to collapse a rickety bridge.

I can see adhering to the room-to-fit requirement.

By the way, there should be a lot of damage to the caster when this summons appears. You don't want getting swallowed to become a preferred combat technique.

[HighWater]

I believe that 'support' requirement is meant to avoid summons used as bombs dropped on enemies. Basically, you can't summon a non-flying creature into mid-air, or summon anything to collapse a rickety bridge.

I can see adhering to the room-to-fit requirement.

By the way, there should be a lot of damage to the caster when this summons appears. You don't want getting swallowed to become a preferred combat technique.
Summoning a creature inside another creature to burst it apart is also quite like a "bomb". The clause is meant to prevent breaking Summon Monster by applying it in ways that are not intended and that go greatly beyond the "normal" power of the summoned monster by putting it in places where it doesn't belong. Inside the stomach of a creature of equal size, or 300ft above its head are both "not-belonging"-places that can potentially do much more damage than the spell is intended to deliver (it's really just meant to fight for you). Actually fitting into the space seems a natural requirement.

Another way of looking at this is to realise that the monster is not summoned as a tiny, but rapidly expanding ball until it is full-sized: it arrivés fullsized at the intended location. That means that its body would be summoned into the space that is occupied by the tissues on the Swallowing Monster: you wouldn't have a bursting Swallowing Monster, you'd have a Swallowing Monster and a Summoned Monsterspliced together in the same space. You can't summon into an occupied space, so summoning a huge creature inside another huge creature can't be done...

But I agree that if the OP were to allow this (DM fiat is a thing), the summoner should get a nice little treatment reflecting the fact that he just put himself between a rock (the creature he's inside) and an expanding hard place (the creature that he summons).

[Daishain]

I would either have the spell fizzle out, or the creature appears, but is crushed and killed before it can act, but not before dealing the caster a hefty amount of crushing damage simply by being there.

[Psyren]

Does that mean I can't summon/teleport into a house, a closet, a hourse carriage, a cart??

The first two are not objects. (Well, the second one might be if it is one of those standalone armoire-type-things.)

[Fax Celestis]

My wizard rewrite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?309205-d20r-Class-The-Wizard) has an ability that does this. Maybe you can use it for inspiration?


16th Level Mystery: You gain the ability to summon creatures inside other creatures. When casting a [Summoning] or [Calling] spell that summons a single creature, you may choose to have the summoned creature attempt to appear in an occupied space. The spell does 2d6 damage per spell level to the target as the summoned creature attempts to materialize within the other creature. A successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + your Hero Value + your Intelligence modifier) halves the damage. If the damage does not kill the targeted creature, the summoning spell fails. If it kills the creature, the summoned creature bursts forth from the targeted creature's body. The summoned creature is affected as if by a rage spell and gains an additional +4 bonus to Strength and Constitution: both these effects last for one round per caster level. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier. If the creature you use this ability on a creature has less than half the Hit Dice than the creature you summon, the summoned creature does not gain the increased ability scores granted by this ability, nor are they affected as if by the rage spell.

[Psyren]

^ Do you call it "telefragging?"

[Fax Celestis]

I may or may not have been playing TF2 as an engineer when I was working on Enochian Magic. So, that's probably where the idea came from, yes.

[Psyren]

I may or may not have been playing TF2 as an engineer when I was working on Enochian Magic. So, that's probably where the idea came from, yes.

Now I feel old. To my memory, the term originated from Quake, when someone was running over your spawn point while you popped in and ended up getting gibbed by your appearance.

[Fax Celestis]

Now I feel old. To my memory, the term originated from Quake, when someone was running over your spawn point while you popped in and ended up getting gibbed by your appearance.

Oh sure, but I wasn't playing Quake when I was working on the wizard. Momentary inspiration vs. long-term memory.

[Orick]

Thanks for all the replies,

But I was thinking, the spell allows you to summon 1d4+1 creatures off the Summon monster 1 list "of the same kind"

So maybe it would just summon a bunch of smaller centipedes that can fit instead of the big one.

I'm still on the fence concerning the summoning within another creature ruling; the crushing damage might be a little too funny to pass up.

[Fitz10019]

Or the centipede goes 'splat' and the wizard has to deal with the drowning rules.