What ways are there to pernanently increase int?

[DarkSonic1337]

I'm playing a silverbrow human wizard with 18 starting int in a campaign planning to go to epic. We're currently level 13, but we recieved free +4 level adjustments (which I foolishly used to purchase abilities similar to class abilities instead of just raising my INT Q_Q). So far my only plans for raising int are the 5 you get from leveling, +6 int headband, and +5 from wishes (preferably free wishes :p).

What other things should I be looking for to raise my int. All 3.5 sources + Dragon Magazine are available. The less evil the method the better (aging is also a possibility, though I'd need a method to not die of old age and maintain my youthful appearance :p)

[Zirconia]

Are you allowed to use non-standard (i.e. not Enhancement) bonus types, as discussed in the DMG magic item creation guidelines? Things like Morale bonuses? If you need an example to convince the DM, the Rage spell on page 268 of the Players Handbook provides Morale bonuses to stats.

That allows you in theory to make other stacking stat bonus items, such as Insight, Competence, Sacred, etc. You may need them in unslotted form, like Ioun stones.

[Rebel7284]

Polymorph any object technically does. It may also give you LA though.

[ShurikVch]

If you can somehow get access to Warp Touch disease, one of possible effects is
71–72 Head swells; +4 deformity bonus to Int. Note: effects of this disease are random (determined by d100), and not all of them are good - say, on less than 11 your character will die, on 37-38 will mute permanently, and 65-66 change arms into tentacles

[Baroknik]

A Tone of Clear Thought can permanently boost your INT anywhere from 1 to 5 points with an inherent bonus.

[RenaldoS]

A Tone of Clear Thought can permanently boost your INT anywhere from 1 to 5 points with an inherent bonus.

A Tome of Clear Thought and a Wish spell both provide inherent bonuses and so do not stack.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

BoVD'S also had drugs, one of which gives you a +4 alchemical bonus to INT for a small set amount of time, but that comes with a whole host of problems.

If you can find an artificer, they have the ability to temporarily change the type of bonus as item gives, allowing for silly things like a +6 dodge bonus to INT.

EDIT: Fixed an autocorrection. Now properly sourced.

[Desthro]

The only PERMANENT increases to stats that I know of are inherent bonuses and the +1 every 4 levels. Everything else is classified as temporary regardless of where it came from.

If it's important to your concept, I would discuss this difference with your DM and see if you can re-neg on those abilities and swap them for pure INT ;)
You can get all matter of temporary bonuses from items, but I don't think that's going to help you.

[Malroth]

You can also recieve a +3 Age bonus if you can somehow get to Venerable perhaps by spending time in an Accelerated time Plane.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If you want to go for age bonuses you'll want Timeless Body or something equivalent. For an arcane caster that's either Alienist (CArc) or Dragon Prophet (MoE) levels. If you can get your hands on the Elixier of Immortality (Dungeon #112, p.80) you continue to get aging bonuses every 200 years - time to find a fast-time plane.

Another option is Polymorph any Object into a Sarrukh (SK). It's permanent (in the sense of spell duration) so you won't get skill points from it, but you'll still have a base Int of 30 for bonus spells and DCs. Other high Int forms work too, but the Sarrukh is the highest within the levels of the spell afaik.

[Rubik]

You can also purchase a Soul Crystal of Metamorphosis, turn yourself into a tree, and hire a level 11+ ardent with the Magic Mantle, the Dominant Ideal ACF, the Awaken spell (nabbed via altering the Magic Mantle's power list via ACF) and the Empower Power and Metapower (Empower Power + Awaken) feats. He can Awaken you by applying Empower Power as many times as you care for him to, allowing you an Int score of 3d6 x 1.5Y, where Y is the number of times it's Empowered. There's technically no limit, since nothing in the psionics rules prevents one from applying a metapsionic feat more than once. It's not even vaguely implied, in fact. The only normal limit is how many psionic foci you've got and how many power points you can spend on the power (both of which are normally extremely limited), though neither is an issue in this case.

There's also a set of horseshoes in Savage Species that grant a +10 bonus to Int for most of a day. You'll have to add the horseshoes' abilities to your boots (via the MIC's rules for transplanting item abilities) and make a UMD check for your race to count as Animal (Horse) to use them, though.

[Shalist]

There's also a set of horseshoes in Savage Species that grant a +10 bonus to Int for most of a day.While it cost less than the +6 headband, its worth noting that the horseshoes transform the wearer into a nightmare for the duration. Dunno if UMD would let you be a 2-legged or 4-legged nightmare, though :P

(edit)Hmm, and I just noticed that the stat bonuses are unnamed...(/edit)

An ordinary horse wearing these horseshoes may transform up to three times per day, for up to 7 hours each time, into a creature resembling a nightmare.

The transformation happens when the owner of the horseshoes speaks the command word. Another command word transforms the horse back to its normal form. Speaking the command is a free action, but the transformation takes a standard action.

When transformed, the horse gains a fly speed of 90 feet (good), +1d4 points of fire damage on each successful hoof attack, +2 Dexterity, +10 Intelligence, and +6 Charisma. A blow from the transformed horse's hooves sets combustible materials alight.

The feat 'chaste life' (BoEF 51) grants you a +2 (unnamed) to an ability score of your choice (max of once per ability), though you temporarily lose the benefits of the feat (pending atonement) if you ever willingly commit a carnal act.

[Rubik]

While it cost less than the +6 headband, its worth noting that the horseshoes transform the wearer into a nightmare for the duration. Dunno if UMD would let you be a 2-legged or 4-legged nightmare, though :PAwesome stat boosts AND look awesome while doing it? SOLD!


(edit)Hmm, and I just noticed that the stat bonuses are unnamed...(/edit)Yes, it stacks with a headband. Even better.


An ordinary horse wearing these horseshoes may transform up to three times per day, for up to 7 hours each time, into a creature resembling a nightmare.

The transformation happens when the owner of the horseshoes speaks the command word. Another command word transforms the horse back to its normal form. Speaking the command is a free action, but the transformation takes a standard action.

When transformed, the horse gains a fly speed of 90 feet (good), +1d4 points of fire damage on each successful hoof attack, +2 Dexterity, +10 Intelligence, and +6 Charisma. A blow from the transformed horse's hooves sets combustible materials alight. Nothing but awesome, there.


The feat 'chaste life' (BoEF 51) grants you a +2 (unnamed) to an ability score of your choice (max of once per ability), though you temporarily lose the benefits of the feat (pending atonement) if you ever willingly commit a carnal act.Note that "carnal act" is anything to do with the needs or appetites of the body. So no breathing, eating, or drinking for you. No bathing, either. :smallsigh:

[edit] You can always find something seriously intelligent (no matter how it attained it) and find a way to manifest Fusion and then Astral Seed. When you come back (minus a level), you'll be a gestalt between your original self and the creature you Fusion'd with. If it had a higher Int than you, you now have that Int score.

[Aquillion]

Note that "carnal act" is anything to do with the needs or appetites of the body. So no breathing, eating, or drinking for you. No bathing, either. :smallsigh:
Turn into a Lich! (Which also grants another Int bonus.)

Yes, the process of becoming a Lich is unspeakably evil, but nothing prevents you from later becoming good (or doing it, reluctantly, in order to avert a bigger evil.)

Granted not bathing might annoy your party members even as a lich, but remember, only willing carnal acts cause you to lose the bonus, so they can just throw a bucket of soapy water on you every so often.

[aleucard]

There are a couple PrC's that give such bonuses. One that springs to mind is Human Paragon and its +2 to any Attribute. Not sure if the Chameleon's bonus would count if you never switch it, though.

[With a box]

I'm sure that punpun get NI int
How it dose that?

[aleucard]

I'm sure that punpun get NI int
How it dose that?

Infinite Loop using temporarily boosted Int to adjust the base Int of the subject (AKA themselves) up to that level naturally. Repeat ad nauseam. I'm not entirely familiar with the actual mechanics, but that's the basic idea. Really, though, it's a pretty good estimate that if your character idea references THAT monstrosity in any way whatsoever, then you shouldn't be using it outside of the Tippyverse, and sometimes not even then.

EDIT: Really, now that I think about it, there IS a situation where PunPun or a relative would be useful; a campaign where the end-game is fighting someone whose own end-goal is to be some sort of Overdeity on their own, of which realistic ways of doing such mechanically are vanishingly few outside of PunPun. Just make it so that the route needed to Ascend is much more circuitous, both in starting and in accumulating the NI levels most madmen here talk about. Build into it some way for the PC's to gut PunPun's power temporarily so that if they're too late normally they still have a shot. That should be a fun campaign. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[georgie_leech]

Infinite Loop using temporarily boosted Int to adjust the base Int of the subject (AKA themselves) up to that level naturally. Repeat ad nauseam. I'm not entirely familiar with the actual mechanics, but that's the basic idea. Really, though, it's a pretty good estimate that if your character idea references THAT monstrosity in any way whatsoever, then you shouldn't be using it outside of the Tippyverse, and sometimes not even then.



The short answer is that Manipulate Form let's you adjust a valid target's Ability Scores up to a maximum of your own. So if you had, say, 18 and then had Fox's Cunning cast on you, you could raise a target's INT to 22 permanently. If they also had Manipulate Form and someone cast Fox's Cunning on them after their INT was increased, they could then set yours to 26. and so on. Note that this is an extremely inefficient way of going about it, but the principle is the same.

[aleucard]

The short answer is that Manipulate Form let's you adjust a valid target's Ability Scores up to a maximum of your own. So if you had, say, 18 and then had Fox's Cunning cast on you, you could raise a target's INT to 22 permanently. If they also had Manipulate Form and someone cast Fox's Cunning on them after their INT was increased, they could then set yours to 26. and so on. Note that this is an extremely inefficient way of going about it, but the principle is the same.

Depending on how long it takes to do the adjusting (I don't have the relevant book in front of me, so I don't know this in fact, but let's assume 1 FRA) you could easily get multiple stats into triple digits with the work of an hour even with this 'inefficient' method (assuming that the [Animal]'s [Attribute] spell auto-adjusts after the modification without having to cast again, but if it's otherwise, then yeah you're going to be burning a LOT of spells, and getting NI slots takes time). What exactly is the 'efficient' method of this?

[Rubik]

Depending on how long it takes to do the adjusting (I don't have the relevant book in front of me, so I don't know this in fact, but let's assume 1 FRA) you could easily get multiple stats into triple digits with the work of an hour even with this 'inefficient' method (assuming that the [Animal]'s [Attribute] spell auto-adjusts after the modification without having to cast again, but if it's otherwise, then yeah you're going to be burning a LOT of spells, and getting NI slots takes time). What exactly is the 'efficient' method of this?Well, all it takes is one casting for 1 min/lvl (minimum: 3 minutes)'s worth of bonus, which stacks with what Manipulate Form does to you. And since the use of Manipulate Form is a standard action, that's a minimum of 30 uses, back and forth, boosting your Int by a minimum of +120.

[Gavinfoxx]

BoEF is third party, and not even good third party, why do people mention it??

[georgie_leech]

Well, all it takes is one casting for 1 min/lvl (minimum: 3 minutes)'s worth of bonus, which stacks with what Manipulate Form does to you. And since the use of Manipulate Form is a standard action, that's a minimum of 30 uses, back and forth, boosting your Int by a minimum of +120.

Really says something that that's the slow method doesn't it? :smallbiggrin:

[Rubik]

Really says something that that's the slow method doesn't it? :smallbiggrin:Well, my way with the ardent gives you NI to all mental stats as a standard action, so...

[aleucard]

BoEF is third party, and not even good third party, why do people mention it??

It's a book commonly associated with 3.5, has some decent stuff in it even if your game's not being played in a brothel, and it's just amusing to watch the Political Correctness Warrior types losing their collective **** over a largely-crappy expansion that few people give a **** about anyway.

[DarkSonic1337]

Hmm, maximized empowered awaken looks pretty cool, but how could a return to being a silverbrow human (permanently) after that without losing the new int and wiz stats?

I'll have 9th level wizard casting, and spelldancer for free metamagic, and craft contingent spell is available. I however will not have a druid friend to help me out (so maximized empowered limited wish for awaken).

I really want to get to 36 int for that second bonus 9th level spell :)

[Rubik]

Hmm, maximized empowered awaken looks pretty cool, but how could a return to being a silverbrow human (permanently) after that without losing the new int and wiz stats?

I'll have 9th level wizard casting, and spelldancer for free metamagic, and craft contingent spell is available. I however will not have a druid friend to help me out (so maximized empowered limited wish for awaken).

I really want to get to 36 int for that second bonus 9th level spell :)Awaken is Instantaneous, and so you keep the benefits regardless of what else happens. Metamorphosis, however, is temporary, and so you won't retain that tree form for any longer than 1 hour/lvl (though you can, of course, dismiss it).

IE, you'll lose Metamorphosis but keep Awaken.

[DarkSonic1337]

Awaken is Instantaneous, and so you keep the benefits regardless of what else happens. Metamorphosis, however, is temporary, and so you won't retain that tree form for any longer than 1 hour/lvl (though you can, of course, dismiss it).

IE, you'll lose Metamorphosis but keep Awaken.

This should work with any spell that changes me into an animal right? (psionics is banned my bad I didn't mention it.)

I'll run this trick by the DM when we hit epic to make sure he's cool with it (hey he did say bring out the tricks and this one seems fairly tame):)

[Rubik]

This should work with any spell that changes me into an animal right? (psionics is banned my bad I didn't mention it.)Yeah, it will.


I'll run this trick by the DM when we hit epic to make sure he's cool with it (hey he did say bring out the tricks and this one seems fairly tame):)The PAO-into-sarrukh thing is even better, but it's also dispellable.

Also, you should consider cropping and using this for your avatar:

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/317/5/8/_comm__dark_sonic_and_amy_by_myly14-d6u5zym.png

[sideswipe]

ask your DM for the epic feat "great (insert ability here)" increases your ability score by 1 permanently.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The PAO-into-sarrukh thing is even better, but it's also dispellable.


You really only need to cast it once, so you can buff the hell out of your CL for it. Still a problem sometimes, but a rather small one.
The main problem with it is that a lot of DMs get twitchy at the mere mention of Serpent Kingdoms, and even twitchier if you mention the Sarrukh in any capacity. :smalltongue:

[ShurikVch]

Awaken not increase Int, it set it in 3d6, so theoretical maximum is 18 (36 with Intensify metamagic)

[Rubik]

Awaken not increase Int, it set it in 3d6, so theoretical maximum is 18 (36 with Intensify metamagic)Correct, unless it's Empowered multiple times (which is impossible with metamagic, though not with metapsionics).