Paladinja Build Help

[Drelua]

I'm considering making a Paladin/Ninja character for PFS, and I'm not sure how exactly to build it. TWFing could be good for the combination Sneak Attack and Smite, getting the bonuses from each on more attacks. The problem with this is that I won't be getting a very big damage boost from Smite if I only take a few Paladin levels, so the main draw would be Charisma to attack. Halfling could be a good race for this, with the size bonuses and the ability modifiers. The downside to TWF is the relatively high feat cost.

I'm also considering going Human or Half-orc and using a Nodachi, building for Strength and Power Attacking Smiting Sneak Attacks. This costs less feats and does far more damage on standard action attack, but would likely do less on a full attack. I could also get really good Intimidate if I take Intimidating Prowess on a Strength and Charisma based character.

The other main question is exactly how many levels of each to take. The minimum for each is of course 2, for Divine Grace and a Ki Pool. I'd probably take the Scout Archetype, so 4 ninja levels would be a good idea. Paladin gets me more Smites, spells, better saves and BAB, better lay on hands, but much worse skill points, less Sneak Attack damage, and less Ki.

TL;DR Paladin/Ninja Multiclass. Strength or Dexterity based? How many levels of each? Since it's PFS, I'll only be going as high as level 11 or 12, so keep that in mind as a cut-off point.

[Spore]

How iconic a dual dagger wielding rogue/ninja might be. It is a terrible idea in PF. Ninjas suffer from a feat drought anyway. You're mixing up sneaks and smite evil with a third thing, dual wielding. You can't possibly hope to be good at ANYTHING if you constantly miss (due to TWFing and terrible BAB from rogues) on non evil targets.

1) You delay getting greater invis which is like a godsend.
2) You delay and nerf your smite evil damage.
3) You kill your utility by decreasing your skill points.
4) You're not quite the healer, not quite the dagger from the dark and not quite the demon slayer.

there is one saving grace however. Natural weapons. If you manage to get three primary natural attacks sneak attacks, smite evils and the such will become more powerful. At the expense of iteratives (which aren't that useful for TWFers anyway. 3x full BAB attacks are at least equal to 6 iteratives for several feats.

If you can add in pounce, you're decked out. So I'd say go for Catfolk Ninja/Paladin. They have the charisma and dexterity for it, a claw pounce feat for later use, they cover their weak wisdom score with class skills in sense motive and perception, their will save via Divine Grace and they can even get a natural climbing speed (netting in +8 to climb and moving on walls like it's the floor).

[emeraldstreak]

Nevermind, I didn't realize this is PF only.

[Drelua]

I had completely forgotten about Catfolk, that is a great idea. Or rather, it would be if I could play a Catfolk in Pathfinder Society, but sadly I cannot. :smallfrown:

This doesn't have to be a really optimized character since it's for PFS, which tends to attract a lot of fairly inexperienced players, I'm just looking for ways to not suck. Natural Weapons would be great if there's a way to get them without Catfolk, but even with that I can't think of a way to get pounce within the level range of PFS. I know I'd probably be better off just playing a Paladin, I just really like the idea of combining the two. I'm not so much looking for ways to make this a good idea as I am looking for ways to make it less bad. It's more of a fun character idea than a heavily optimized one, I just have to get it working in a fairly low optimization environment.

There's at least some synergy between ability scores, and the classes do cover some of each other's weak spots, with Ninja adding skill points and Paladin buffing their saves. I'm leaning towards a more strength based build right now, and I think it could do decent damage with a fairly good chance to hit, especially if I make use of invisibility.

The main question is if I should be a Paladin with some Ninja levels or a Ninja with some Paladin levels. I'm thinking of maybe working my way up to Paladin 7/Ninja 4 to minimize the loss of BAB, spreading out the ninja levels but then Sneak Attack becomes fairly irrelevant, unless maybe I took something like Pressure Points to turn Sneak Attack into something more than a bit of extra damage. Or would I be better off just playing a straight-up Paladin?

[Beowulf DW]

Have you considered simply using a Slayer? Full BAB, the capacity for sneakiness, other goodies. You can fluff it as a member of a holy order. Hell, the iconic slayer works for a sun cult.

[Drelua]

Have you considered simply using a Slayer? Full BAB, the capacity for sneakiness, other goodies. You can fluff it as a member of a holy order. Hell, the iconic slayer works for a sun cult.

I have looked at the Slayer, it just never struck me as being really worthwhile. Better than some ACG classes, certainly, but it just doesn't really stand out at all. Plus I've already got a couple Rangers that I play fairly often, so I'd feel like that was a bit redundant. I might just play a Paladin, since I've never tried one and they're so much better than they were in 3.5. I just think some Ninja levels could put an interesting spin on it, plus it's really fun to say Paladinja.

Like I said before, it doesn't need to be a really powerful character, I'm just looking for advice on how to turn it into something that won't have any trouble keeping up in PFS, and maybe something people haven't seen before.

[grarrrg]

I have looked at the Slayer, it just never struck me as being really worthwhile. Better than some ACG classes, certainly, but it just doesn't really stand out at all.

Well, there is the (stupidly named) Deliverer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/archetypes/paizo---slayer-archetypes/deliverer) archetype for Slayers. It's basically a "Holy Assassin" type thing, even has a way to fall and become an Ex-Slayer
You lose 3 Slayer Talents, the first two "bonuses" are kinda piddly, but the one at 10th has some potential.

As far as straight Paladin goes, you can't go wrong with Oath of Vengeance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-of-vengeance) for good old "HOLY SMASH!" goodness.

[Drelua]

Well, there is the (stupidly named) Deliverer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/archetypes/paizo---slayer-archetypes/deliverer) archetype for Slayers. It's basically a "Holy Assassin" type thing, even has a way to fall and become an Ex-Slayer
You lose 3 Slayer Talents, the first two "bonuses" are kinda piddly, but the one at 10th has some potential.

Yeah, I've seen that too, but since this is for PFS I wouldn't be getting anything good out of that archetype until my character was getting close to retirement.


As far as straight Paladin goes, you can't go wrong with Oath of Vengeance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/oathbound-paladin/oath-of-vengeance) for good old "HOLY SMASH!" goodness.

Oh yeah, I'll definitely be taking that archetype if I can. Channelling isn't much of a loss, especially if I was multiclassing, since Channel wouldn't be healing very much, and instead I can get the choice to Smite as many at least 2 or 3 more enemies per day, or more at higher levels.

I'll probably just stick with Paladin, Slayer seems a bit pointless to me. I'd honestly rather just play a Ranger, especially if I can convince my DM to allow the house rule I've used in the past with other groups that allows Rangers to trade Favoured Enemy and Favoured Terrain for a full Sneak Attack progression.