Land druid, is he a good option?

[Costantine10]

I'm playing in a really big big big group and i want to go with a land druid, but is he good? or does he fulfill the waste of space role?
I like the druid, it's my favorite class since 3.5, and i want to play also in 5°, i dont want to play the moon druid, because we already have a lot of melee guys in our group, and a lot of damage dealer, we lack of support caster( I HATE THE CLERIC), so i like the idea of a land druid, wht's your toughts about it?

[Yorrin]

Land druids are a fine choice. Their spell list is skewed toward healing/buffing, summoning, cc, and a bit of damage, so you've got plenty of build space to work in. Your choice of land will obviously have an impact on how you play, but the class is not terrible by any stretch of the imagination. Keep in mind, however, that you've got less class features than, say, a Nature Cleric, so you're going to need to be strategic with your use of spells and wildshape.

[Vowtz]

Some of the land druid best spells are to conjure creatures, if you use this spell to call 8 wolves, for example, you will make 8 attacks, all with advantage and requiring a save for each hit.

You will roll 16 dices for attack, maybe 32 dices for damage and maybe your enemies will make 8 saving throws. All that in your turn, imagine if each of this wolves get an attack of opportunity....

Of course you can choose less OP spells and limit your power for the sake of your friends fun.

[ImperiousLeader]

You also gain a version of the Wizard's Arcane Recovery, so you've got a few more spells per day than the Moon Druid or the Cleric. I quite like the Land Druid ... I just want my first Druid to be a Moon Druid because I love combat shapeshifting.

[Costantine10]

Some of the land druid best spells are to conjure creatures, if you use this spell to call 8 wolves, for example, you will make 8 attacks, all with advantage and requiring a save for each hit.

You will roll 16 dices for attack, maybe 32 dices for damage and maybe your enemies will make 8 saving throws. All that in your turn, imagine if each of this wolves get an attack of opportunity....

Of course you can choose less OP spells and limit your power for the sake of your friends fun.

WOW, in think i'll go monk 1/druid x, what is best spells cricle? Can i pick only one circle or can i pick more?

[hymer]

WOW, in think i'll go monk 1/druid x, what is best spells cricle? Can i pick only one circle or can i pick more?

I did a discussion on this in my little druid guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?370229-Druid-Guide-amp-Discussion&p=18062573#post18062573):


Land Spells
Land druids get special circle spells which they add to their prepared spells for free. The usefulness of land spell lists is mostly in what new spells they add. Another consideration is how commonly you would want to have the spells on the list prepared. Spells you would want to prepare anyway frees up a slot, while highly situational spells sit there all the time you have no use for them.

Arctic: Expands your options with Slow and Cone of Cold. Commune with Nature is not a spell you usually need at a moment’s notice.

Coast: Expands your options with Mirror Image and Misty Step. Has Water Breathing, Water Walk, Control Water and Scrying as spells you wouldn’t be preparing on a daily basis.

Desert: Expands your options with Blur, Silence and Create Food and Water. Hallucinatory Terrain is a pretty situational spell.

Forest: Grants Spider Climb. Spider Climb, Divination, Commune with Nature and Tree Stride are spells you could probably prepare as needed.

Grassland: Expands your options with Invisibility, Haste and Dream. Daylight, Divination and Dream are spells that won’t be cast during most adventure days.

Mountain: Expands your options with Spider Climb, Lightning Bolt and Passwall. Spider Climb is the only one I’d single out as situational here.

Swamp: Expands your options with Darkness, Melf’s Acid Arrow and Stinking Cloud. Water Walk, Locate Creature and Scrying are spells not obviously prepared.

Underdark: Expands your options with Spider Climb, Web, Gaseous Form, Stinking Cloud, Greater Invisibility and Cloudkill. Spider Climb is the only one that seems situational.

Colour codes are as follows:
Great stuff
Good stuff
Decent stuff
Could be a waste of your stuff
Borderline useless stuff

[Costantine10]

I did a discussion on this in my little druid guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?370229-Druid-Guide-amp-Discussion&p=18062573#post18062573):



Colour codes are as follows:
Great stuff
Good stuff
Decent stuff
Could be a waste of your stuff
Borderline useless stuff


nice guide, ty. I haven't understand, can i pick only one circle, or can i pick more?

[Yorrin]

nice guide, ty. I haven't understand, can i pick only one circle, or can i pick more?

Only one allowed

[hymer]

nice guide, ty. I haven't understand, can i pick only one circle, or can i pick more?

You get one choice. To be clear:
You only get one circle: Land or Druid. Land druids get Circle Spells, which depend on their chosen Land. They only get to choose one Land.

Edit: Shadowmonked.

[Costantine10]

You get one choice. To be clear:
You only get one circle: Land or Druid. Land druids get Circle Spells, which depend on their chosen Land. They only get to choose one Land.

Edit: Shadowmonked.

Sorry, i'm talking about circle spells...
"At 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9thlevel you gain access to circle spells connected to the land where you bacame a druid".
So... must i pick only one( ex. forest), or can i pick 4( ex. forest, swamp, artic, coast)?

[Yorrin]

Sorry, i'm talking about circle spells...
"At 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9thlevel you gain access to circle spells connected to the land where you bacame a druid".
So... must i pick only one( ex. forest), or can i pick 4( ex. forest, swamp, artic, coast)?

Ah, no you get the whole circle list for your land choice.

[Costantine10]

do you think picking a level in monk class is a good option for a land druid, since non metal armors really suck?

[Yorrin]

do you think picking a level in monk class is a good option for a land druid, since non metal armors really suck?

It's certainly a decent option. You'll have a much better AC than most druids, and you can punch better than most, but you'll be a level behind in terms of spell progression. For some builds/parties/characters that will be worth it, and for others not so much.

[hymer]

do you think picking a level in monk class is a good option for a land druid, since non metal armors really suck?

You're in a big group, you should be able to depend on others engaging the enemy. But if, once you start playing, it turns out you get a lot of weapons pointed at you, it may be worth considering, if you can't compensate some other way. If you get hold of magical armor, then the value of unarmored defense shrinks accordingly.
Worst problem is that you may as well use a (magical) shield, which you can't with monk's UD.

Edit: 55 gp for studded leather and a shield, giving you AC 14+dex. You'll need straight 20 wis to beat that, and by the time you do have that, is one point of AC worth loss of a caster level? And then add magical items into the mix.

[Costantine10]

You're in a big group, you should be able to depend on others engaging the enemy. But if, once you start playing, it turns out you get a lot of weapons pointed at you, it may be worth considering, if you can't compensate some other way. If you get hold of magical armor, then the value of unarmored defense shrinks accordingly.
Worst problem is that you may as well use a (magical) shield, which you can't with monk's UD.


mmm, can a shield be my druid focus? somatic and shield can work togther?

[hymer]

mmm, can a shield be my druid focus? somatic and shield can work togther?

No, not as it stands. But you don't need your weapon out much, do you? Drawing and sheathing it can be part of movement, so it really shouldn't get in your way even if you do use it sometimes.

[Yorrin]

mmm, can a shield be my druid focus? somatic and shield can work togther?

That's an interesting question indeed. Technically no, but we've had several devs say that Cleric can do it, so as a DM I'd certainly allow it. The War Caster feat would explicitly allow it, iirc.

[cobaltstarfire]

mmm, can a shield be my druid focus? somatic and shield can work togther?

It can be for clerics apparently, so I imagine it can be for druids too? (I don't know)

[hymer]

The War Caster feat would explicitly allow it, iirc.

War caster allows somatic components even while hands are full of weapons and shields, but not focus, unfortunately. I agree that it ought to be allowable to use a totem or a sprig of mistletoe on your shield (since clerics get to do it), but it'll be up to the DM.
There's a list of non-focus druid spells in my guide, courtesy of giant2005 (actually for use with Beast Spells) but similarly applicable here.

[emeraldstreak]

Colour codes are as follows:
Great stuff
Good stuff
Decent stuff
Could be a waste of your stuff
Borderline useless stuff


Whaaat?

Mirror Image only "decent"?

Silence "a waste"????\


LOL

[DrLemniscate]

The whole focus thing confuses me.

Couldn't a caster use a Staff as a focus, and also use that same Staff as a weapon?

[hymer]

Mirror Image only "decent"?
Silence "a waste"????

Nearly right, but not completely.
Anyway, the problem with Silence is that it doesn't move. It can't be targeted on creatures or on objects. So it's right out for sneaking. To get casters to be annoyed with it, you have to keep them inside the quite small AoE. It also seems to not affect monsters with magical abilities from what I know. And to top it all off, it's Concentration.
As for Mirror Image, it does fairly well against single opponents who want to hack away at you one or at most two attacks at a time. But you're not a wizard, for whom I'd rate it blue. As a druid, you're very likely better off doing BC off the bat than holding off attacks until you can make yourself really safe. The one minute duration means your DM must pretty much let you have actual buff rounds for this to be a really good spell.


The whole focus thing confuses me.

Couldn't a caster use a Staff as a focus, and also use that same Staff as a weapon?

The staff would by RAW be an improvised weapon. It has no stats. It costs 5gp, and a quarterstaff costs 2sp. They aren't the same. Presumably, the druid would be worried about using the staff to whack people on the head, as it is probably carved and maybe has some feathers or beads or things on it. And if it breaks, it ceases to function as a focus.
But the DM could definitely let the druid do as you suggest.

[Costantine10]

ty for all the advices, but i need another one, which is the best background for a land druid, i like the urchin for skills and tools( but it doesnt fit very well with a druid), i like folk hero for the roleplaying but not for skill and tools... any advices?

[hymer]

You can make your own background. P. 125, 'Customizing a Background'.

[ImperiousLeader]

... Pick the one that works best with your character? Making a background fit with your class choice is not difficult. An Urchin Druid could be a streetkid that picked the pocket of a benevolent Druid, who apprenticed you. Your Bond can be "[Druid's mentor's name] got me out of the streets and into the wilds, I owe them everything."

If you want to customize the background, it's just a matter of talking to your DM. I certainly intend to be flexible in this regard.

[Rilak]

The staff would by RAW be an improvised weapon. It has no stats. It costs 5gp, and a quarterstaff costs 2sp. They aren't the same.

Yes, but RAW it is similar enough to a quarterstaff that it deals the same damage and has the same proficiency as a quarterstaff. So in effect you can use the focus staff as if it was also a regular quarterstaff (for purposes of poking people's eyes out, for example).

[hymer]

Yes, but RAW it is similar enough to a quarterstaff that it deals the same damage and has the same proficiency as a quarterstaff. So in effect you can use the focus staff as if it was also a regular quarterstaff (for purposes of poking people's eyes out, for example).

As I said, the DM could let it fly. But I don't think an ornamental staff and a quarterstaff are sufficiently similar that there's no doubt that this is what the DM should do. It comes down to a judgement call.

[Socko525]

In regards to the shield/somatic components thing, this was from WotC designer Rodney Thompson:

"■A divine focus can be emblazoned on a cleric’s shield, enabling the cleric to wield a weapon in the other hand and still cast spells. A wizard can hold an arcane focus in one hand and a weapon in another and still cast spells. A druid must hold mistletoe as an arcane focus, so druids must either stash their shield or their weapon to cast."

Not sure if this helps clarify or not, but it fits with RAW about the druidic focii and shield based somatic components.

I thought it was bad for druids, but imagine it for a bard as every instrument listed in the PHB requires 2 hands to play....

[DrLemniscate]

The staff would by RAW be an improvised weapon. It has no stats. It costs 5gp, and a quarterstaff costs 2sp. They aren't the same. Presumably, the druid would be worried about using the staff to whack people on the head, as it is probably carved and maybe has some feathers or beads or things on it. And if it breaks, it ceases to function as a focus.
But the DM could definitely let the druid do as you suggest.

Truth. A Quarterstaff is called such, because it is made from a tree trunk split in to quarters. Whereas just a Staff might be a more ceremonial piece made from a tree branch.

But couldn't Shillelagh be used to 'reinforce' it and make it an actual weapon? Doing so would make it a 1d8, which admittedly would be a downgrade from the Quarterstaff which can be a 1d10 is using two hands. After all, the name Shillelagh is derived from old ceremonial walking sticks/clubs, made from the root of a tree.

[DrLemniscate]

In regards to the shield/somatic components thing, this was from WotC designer Rodney Thompson:

"■A divine focus can be emblazoned on a cleric’s shield, enabling the cleric to wield a weapon in the other hand and still cast spells. A wizard can hold an arcane focus in one hand and a weapon in another and still cast spells. A druid must hold mistletoe as an arcane focus, so druids must either stash their shield or their weapon to cast."

Not sure if this helps clarify or not, but it fits with RAW about the druidic focii and shield based somatic components.

I thought it was bad for druids, but imagine it for a bard as every instrument listed in the PHB requires 2 hands to play....

Look at Rodney's argument for Wizards. It's the same as Druids if you don't care about shields. If Wizards could by default wear shields, it would be the same restrictions as with Druids.

I think the reasoning behind it is that Clerics are in melee a lot. They have the Heavy Armor, so they will probably be in the middle of combat, and getting attacks of opportunity. I think some Clerics can even cast a spell and attack on their action.

Wizards and Druids prefer to be on the edge of combat when acting as casters. So they won't be mixing actions like casting and attacking, so they are comfortably covered under their "interact with an object for free" action. Just hold your shield in one hand, and your focus in another. Wizards hold their focus in one hand and a weapon in the other, but if they could use a shield, they would likely do the same for the AC bump.

If you really want to mix your casting and melee across turns, you should be able to use a Staff as a focus, and use the Shillelagh cantrip to make it an actual weapon (rather than an improvised weapon which could break). So the price of flexible casting is a cantrip slot and weapon restriction.

[Symphony]

But couldn't Shillelagh be used to 'reinforce' it and make it an actual weapon? Doing so would make it a 1d8, which admittedly would be a downgrade from the Quarterstaff which can be a 1d10 is using two hands.

Quarterstaff is 1d6 (versatile 1d8), so you can use Shillelagh to one-hand a quarterstaff for 1d8 damage with a shield and Wisdom as the attacking stat. Sounds good to me.

[Jrpergande78]

War caster allows somatic components even while hands are full of weapons and shields, but not focus, unfortunately. I agree that it ought to be allowable to use a totem or a sprig of mistletoe on your shield (since clerics get to do it), but it'll be up to the DM.
There's a list of non-focus druid spells in my guide, courtesy of giant2005 (actually for use with Beast Spells) but similarly applicable here.

The argument for this with Clerics, is that your Holy Symbol can be placed on the shield, or even tattooed on you. As for a Druidic focus this could work, but you'd have to affix the focus onto the shield, you can wear your totem as a necklace that is always visible though.

[Rukelnikov]

The argument for this with Clerics, is that your Holy Symbol can be placed on the shield, or even tattooed on you. As for a Druidic focus this could work, but you'd have to affix the focus onto the shield, you can wear your totem as a necklace that is always visible though.

A staff can be a druidic focus, so the Shillelagh itself is the focus

[Aett_Thorn]

Thread necro, ahoy!