Help me build my Warlock / Fighter

[kalebr]

Hi all,

First, this is my first time ever playing any tabletop RPG. In video game RPGs, I've always been a min/max type of person, but I've found that if I create narratives for my characters and play with that narrative in mind, I have a lot more fun. That's what I'm trying to do with this character. Not trying to get every advantage possible, but at least making sure that for the narrative I've created, the character can effectively live it.

My human was a sage, alone in the library studying when a powerful archfey approached him and offered him a the pact. The archfey promised him knowledge, if he were to just do a few things for him first. Upon agreeing, the sage was granted the powers of a Warlock and two scimitars and the archfey vanished, leaving the new Warlock confused and conflicted. Prior to the start of the adventure, the Warlock discovered his magic and feels shame and discomfort in using the magic. At the same time, he has never used any weapon and now finds that his set of steel attracts attention of the sort that expects him to know how to use it.

In practical terms, his stats are [9, 16, 14, 14, 10, 16]. He fights with two weapons, but of course, currently without proficiency. He will use his magic if necessary as a fall back. So far, the only spells I've selected are Eldrith Blast and Hex. I hope to use Hex as the spell that helps him be deadly with the swords.

Things I want to do with the character.

Multiclass into fighter to gain martial weapon proficiency, two-weapon fighting style, second wind ( This is the character learning to use the new weapons )
Use darkness & devil sight to enhance melee but also be cool looking ( Fits thematically. His spirit turns dark when he's understress. )
Use Pact of the Tome to get Find Familiar as ritual spell ( Bat or Owl seem to fit the character. Also like how they fit with the darkness. )
Get Battle Master with Parry & Tripping Attack for defense and control ( As skill in sword grows, using them to control the fight )
Take Guidance as a cantrip ( Seems really useful )
Wear no or light armor ( Thematically seems nice )



So, the questions and problems primarily about how to proceed to level 7 or 8.

Will I be able to maintain Hex or will the concentration get broken in battle? War Caster would help this, but seems like that wouldn't be possible until 7 (or 4 if I forgo the Fighter levels )

Low AC seems like a concern. I hope Parry & Darkness can help some with that, but of course, those are 3-6 levels away. Armor of Agathys maybe. Two spells per rest though seems to make it hard to use AoA and Hex. Fiendish Vigor seems to lose value quickly.

I know this isn't optimal, but will it be useful, survivable or completely gimped?


I'd love suggestions on how I should progress, the order I take levels, or suggestions for skills/spells that I may be overlooking.

[Ferrin33]

Hi all,

First, this is my first time ever playing any tabletop RPG. In video game RPGs, I've always been a min/max type of person, but I've found that if I create narratives for my characters and play with that narrative in mind, I have a lot more fun. That's what I'm trying to do with this character. Not trying to get every advantage possible, but at least making sure that for the narrative I've created, the character can effectively live it.

My human was a sage, alone in the library studying when a powerful archfey approached him and offered him a the pact. The archfey promised him knowledge, if he were to just do a few things for him first. Upon agreeing, the sage was granted the powers of a Warlock and two scimitars and the archfey vanished, leaving the new Warlock confused and conflicted. Prior to the start of the adventure, the Warlock discovered his magic and feels shame and discomfort in using the magic. At the same time, he has never used any weapon and now finds that his set of steel attracts attention of the sort that expects him to know how to use it.

In practical terms, his stats are [9, 16, 14, 14, 10, 16]. He fights with two weapons, but of course, currently without proficiency. He will use his magic if necessary as a fall back. So far, the only spells I've selected are Eldrith Blast and Hex. I hope to use Hex as the spell that helps him be deadly with the swords.

Things I want to do with the character.

Multiclass into fighter to gain martial weapon proficiency, two-weapon fighting style, second wind ( This is the character learning to use the new weapons )
Use darkness & devil sight to enhance melee but also be cool looking ( Fits thematically. His spirit turns dark when he's understress. )
Use Pact of the Tome to get Find Familiar as ritual spell ( Bat or Owl seem to fit the character. Also like how they fit with the darkness. )
Get Battle Master with Parry & Tripping Attack for defense and control ( As skill in sword grows, using them to control the fight )
Take Guidance as a cantrip ( Seems really useful )
Wear no or light armor ( Thematically seems nice )



So, the questions and problems primarily about how to proceed to level 7 or 8.

Will I be able to maintain Hex or will the concentration get broken in battle? War Caster would help this, but seems like that wouldn't be possible until 7 (or 4 if I forgo the Fighter levels )

Low AC seems like a concern. I hope Parry & Darkness can help some with that, but of course, those are 3-6 levels away. Armor of Agathys maybe. Two spells per rest though seems to make it hard to use AoA and Hex. Fiendish Vigor seems to lose value quickly.

I know this isn't optimal, but will it be useful, survivable or completely gimped?

I'd love suggestions on how I should progress, the order I take levels, or suggestions for skills/spells that I may be overlooking.

Armor of Shadows invocation helps your armor issue if you go for a dexterity fighter using finesse weapons, might even fit your concept.

You really need at least Fighter 5 to fight 'ok' in melee if you take Pact of the Tome. Otherwise don't bother with the melee and focus on eldritch blast. So for your character concept I think warlock9/12/15/17+Fighter3/5/8/11 works depending on how good you want to be in melee compared to casting. 3 for gimmicks when they get close, 5 for ok when put in a corner, 8 for the attribute score increases and extra martial maneuvers, and 11 for being a real threat in melee, I recommend going with Pact of the Blade instead of Pact of the tome if you go that far though.

[Hydra98]

eh... why not go blade pact... it does more or less what a fighter does.

[kalebr]

Armor of Shadows invocation helps your armor issue if you go for a dexterity fighter using finesse weapons, might even fit your concept.

You really need at least Fighter 5 to fight 'ok' in melee if you take Pact of the Tome. Otherwise don't bother with the melee and focus on eldritch blast. So for your character concept I think warlock9/12/15/17+Fighter3/5/8/11 works depending on how good you want to be in melee compared to casting. 3 for gimmicks when they get close, 5 for ok when put in a corner, 8 for the attribute score increases and extra martial maneuvers, and 11 for being a real threat in melee, I recommend going with Pact of the Blade instead of Pact of the tome if you go that far though.


Questions.

Is Armor of Shadows significant enough to justify spending a precious invocation on it? Especially when I can essentially wear light armor for the same effect. I guess the core of the question asks 'is there any reason to never wear armor'?

Clearly I'm missing something. I don't see where level 4 & 5 of fighter is valuable. Ability/Feat at 4. Extra attack at 5. Extra attack, I get, but I understand it not to give you an additional bonus attack so it seems less valuable when fighting with two weapons. Based on '11 for being a real threat in melee', I guess the extra attacks is where the value from fighter comes from.

With Pact of the Blade, it seems weak except when using the invocations. Thirsting Blade doesn't stack with Fighter extra attack. Lifedrinker adds 6-9 damage a round which I guess is pretty good, but at a steep cost. An invocation, lost cantrips, lost rituals.

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.

[Ferrin33]

Questions.

Is Armor of Shadows significant enough to justify spending a precious invocation on it? Especially when I can essentially wear light armor for the same effect. I guess the core of the question asks 'is there any reason to never wear armor'?

Clearly I'm missing something. I don't see where level 4 & 5 of fighter is valuable. Ability/Feat at 4. Extra attack at 5. Extra attack, I get, but I understand it not to give you an additional bonus attack so it seems less valuable when fighting with two weapons. Based on '11 for being a real threat in melee', I guess the extra attacks is where the value from fighter comes from.

With Pact of the Blade, it seems weak except when using the invocations. Thirsting Blade doesn't stack with Fighter extra attack. Lifedrinker adds 6-9 damage a round which I guess is pretty good, but at a steep cost. An invocation, lost cantrips, lost rituals.

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.

Armor of Shadows is 13 + Dex and Studded Leather is 12 + Dex so the invocation gives you 1 extra AC. There are reasons not to wear armor; Not proficient in armor, a class feature that provides benefits for not wearing armor, or having access to Mage Armor(Armor of Shadows) and a high dexterity.

Fighter 4 isn't valueable, but fighter 5 gives an extra attack. Fighter 7 gives you more maneuvers known and an extra maneuver die per short rest, fighter 9 a 1/short rest reroll for a saving throw, and fighter 11 a second extra attack. 6, 8 and 10 each gives you an ASI while you get to the fighter levels.

Pact of the Blade lets you safeguard your favorite magic weapon and access to the Lifedrinker Invocation, which gives an additional 5 damage per attack. If you go fighter11 that's an additional 15 damage per round. You'd lose some cantrips and access to the rituals though, but you would be heavy-hitting in melee with 2d6+10*3+2d6+5(Average 63 if everything hits) per round if they're Hexed. I don't think duel wielding is that great with Pact of the Blade as you're missing the 5 extra damage for your off-hand, which is a shame.

If you don't care to much about melee I would indeed just go Fighter3/Warlock17 and take a few useful maneuvers you mentioned before. I would reconsider taking Two-Weapon Fighting Style though if you don't go with Armor of Shadows and instead take Defense Fighting Style for the extra AC. You can keep your Dexterity at 14 and wear Medium armor for an AC of 18 without needing to get 20 in Dexterity.

Edit: Although if you don't max either Strength or Dexterity the number of useful maneuvers falls off. Those not relying on a high Strength or Dexterity to be useful; Commander's Strike, Distracting Strike, Evasive Footwork, Feinting Attack, Lunging Attack, Maneuvering Attack, Precision Attack, Rally, Sweeping Attack. Parry is still alright though its better if you'd use Armor of Shadows or wear light armor.
I also suggest taking the Shillelagh cantrip with Pact of the Tome so you can use a quarterstaff or club using your charisma modifier for attack and damage.

[Hydra98]

also pact blade lets you use your cha mod, and you should take fiend pact with it

[Ferrin33]

also pact blade lets you use your cha mod, and you should take fiend pact with it

That is assuming he wants to go melee, which I increasingly start to doubt. If he does want to go melee It's either Warlock9/Fighter11, or warlock20 with pact of the blade. Going bard instead of fighter for College of Valor might be interesting as well then.

[numerek]

In practical terms, his stats are [9, 16, 14, 14, 10, 16]. He fights with two weapons, but of course, currently without proficiency. He will use his magic if necessary as a fall back. So far, the only spells I've selected are Eldrith Blast and Hex. I hope to use Hex as the spell that helps him be deadly with the swords.

Things I want to do with the character.

Multiclass into fighter to gain martial weapon proficiency, two-weapon fighting style, second wind ( This is the character learning to use the new weapons )
Use darkness & devil sight to enhance melee but also be cool looking ( Fits thematically. His spirit turns dark when he's understress. )
Use Pact of the Tome to get Find Familiar as ritual spell ( Bat or Owl seem to fit the character. Also like how they fit with the darkness. )
Get Battle Master with Parry & Tripping Attack for defense and control ( As skill in sword grows, using them to control the fight )
Take Guidance as a cantrip ( Seems really useful )
Wear no or light armor ( Thematically seems nice )



So, the questions and problems primarily about how to proceed to level 7 or 8.

Will I be able to maintain Hex or will the concentration get broken in battle? War Caster would help this, but seems like that wouldn't be possible until 7 (or 4 if I forgo the Fighter levels )

Low AC seems like a concern. I hope Parry & Darkness can help some with that, but of course, those are 3-6 levels away. Armor of Agathys maybe. Two spells per rest though seems to make it hard to use AoA and Hex. Fiendish Vigor seems to lose value quickly.

I know this isn't optimal, but will it be useful, survivable or completely gimped?


I'd love suggestions on how I should progress, the order I take levels, or suggestions for skills/spells that I may be overlooking.

I don't know what order you plan on taking the levels but I wouldn't use weapons I wasn't proficient in. You can dual wield daggers which is only 1 damage less.
Also if your first level is fighter you will get con save proficiency which will help a lot with maintaining concentration.

As far as extra attack, without it even if you dual wield rapiers (which requires a feat) your eldritch blast with agonizing blast will deal more at 5th level and has a 120 foot range. which if you are multiclassing unless you go straight to level 5 fighter (or take pact of blade) there are going to be levels where your eldritch blast does more. and that is just delaying the inevitable level 11 when you get 3 blasts which will then again beat the rapiers, unless you went straight for level 11 fighter and doing that your aren't really multi-classing. So you see eldritch blast is a hard spell to keep up with. And if an ability you pickup at 1st level can beat out an ability you spent 3 levels multi-classing for, it calls into question why multiclass. You could still multiclass into fighter for secondwind and action surge, but dual wielding will eventually lose out to eldritch blast and you are always using your bonus action to even try to keep up.

Only the imp from pact of chain can see in magical darkness.
I wouldn't worry to much about ac if you plan on fighting inside magical darkness, if your opponent doesn't have something like devil's sight, blindsight, tremorsense, or true sight, you are invisible and even if they do know where to swing they are at disadvantage. The problem with melee darkness fighting is the same is true for the opponent with your party members if they don't have one of the things listed above they can't see the opponent, where as with eldritch blast you can hang back away from everybody in your darkness and not inhibit your party members.

I'm not saying fiendish vigor is great but it is rare in that it is a per fight(actually you can use it multiple times a fight but during the fight your probably have better things to do) ability, most abilities in 5th are short or long rest.

I actually like way of the shadow monk better as a multi with warlock, the teleport ability is awesome, looks like with your stats you could swap int and wis and you get +2 to ac, can deflect ranged attacks, move faster, stunning strike will help makeup for battle manuevers, evasion and stillness of mind are great can use ki points to cast darkness. You can still dual wield(with unarmed) at low levels where it beats eldritch blast, and you can actually get a 3rd attack at 2 level that can be used more often then action surge from fighter.

Throw in a little assassin rogue and you are the shadow of death.

[kalebr]

That is assuming he wants to go melee, which I increasingly start to doubt. If he does want to go melee It's either Warlock9/Fighter11, or warlock20 with pact of the blade. Going bard instead of fighter for College of Valor might be interesting as well then.
I certainly want to melee.



I don't know what order you plan on taking the levels but I wouldn't use weapons I wasn't proficient in. You can dual wield daggers which is only 1 damage less.
That was done mostly for roleplay purposes.




As far as extra attack, without it even if you dual wield rapiers (which requires a feat) your eldritch blast with agonizing blast will deal more at 5th level and has a 120 foot range. which if you are multiclassing unless you go straight to level 5 fighter (or take pact of blade) there are going to be levels where your eldritch blast does more. and that is just delaying the inevitable level 11 when you get 3 blasts which will then again beat the rapiers, unless you went straight for level 11 fighter and doing that your aren't really multi-classing. So you see eldritch blast is a hard spell to keep up with. And if an ability you pickup at 1st level can beat out an ability you spent 3 levels multi-classing for, it calls into question why multiclass. You could still multiclass into fighter for secondwind and action surge, but dual wielding will eventually lose out to eldritch blast and you are always using your bonus action to even try to keep up.
I totally get that Eldritch Blast is the "right way" to play warlock. Again, it's about roleplaying the character I have in my mind.



Only the imp from pact of chain can see in magical darkness.
Ah! You're right. So that lessens the value of Find Familiar quite a bit then.



The problem with melee darkness fighting is the same is true for the opponent with your party members if they don't have one of the things listed above they can't see the opponent, where as with eldritch blast you can hang back away from everybody in your darkness and not inhibit your party members.
Yep. Which adds to the charm of the idea. I can make myself more powerful at the cost of others in the group. A cloud of darkness they have to escape or watch from afar.



I actually like way of the shadow monk better as a multi with warlock, the teleport ability is awesome, looks like with your stats you could swap int and wis and you get +2 to ac, can deflect ranged attacks, move faster, stunning strike will help makeup for battle manuevers, evasion and stillness of mind are great can use ki points to cast darkness. You can still dual wield(with unarmed) at low levels where it beats eldritch blast, and you can actually get a 3rd attack at 2 level that can be used more often then action surge from fighter.
This is very interesting indeed. I was attached to scimitars and longswords, but I see a lot of benefit here giving those up. 3rd attack at 2nd level is unclear to me. I don't see 3rd attack at 2nd level though. Guess I need to read deeper.


A lot to think about.

[numerek]

This is very interesting indeed. I was attached to scimitars and longswords, but I see a lot of benefit here giving those up. 3rd attack at 2nd level is unclear to me. I don't see 3rd attack at 2nd level though. Guess I need to read deeper.


A lot to think about.

I'm referring to flurry of blows which gives you 2 attacks on your bonus action you can do this twice per short rest at 2nd level vs only being able to action surge once per short rest with fighter. Then ki points go up every level from there where as fighters only get a second action surge at 17th level.

This is assuming you are ok with your bonus attacks being unarmed. Though in the darkness they won't know what they are being hit with.