Range Touch Attack on helpless target

[Barstro]

PC really wants someone turned to dust and wants to guarantee that Disintegration hits.

Now, I've always felt that guaranteed things do not require rolls. Getting out of bed is automatic. Throwing yourself at the ground and trying to miss will not work.

In that same vein, I don't see how anyone could miss a sleeping target with a (ray) ranged touch attack spell cast while actually touching the target. But does RAW/RAI allow that, or is a roll needed?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Helpless targets are treated as having Dex 0 and melee attacks get a +4 bonus. Ranged attacks do not.
As the DM you can just waive the roll though in the interest of storytelling.

[Greenish]

There is no such thing as a guaranteed hit with an attack roll. A natural 1 always misses.

A helpless target has effective Dex mod of -5, so assuming no other bonuses that apply to touch AC (such as deflection), a helpless target has AC of 5, or, as the target is most likely prone, 9 vs. ranged attacks (and 1 vs. melee attacks). That's fairly easy, but not automatic.

[Edit]: There may be ways to use Coup de Grâce with a ranged attack, or even a spell. Such an action would be a guaranteed success (in terms of actually hitting the target).

[Psyren]

[Edit]: There may be ways to use Coup de Grâce with a ranged attack, or even a spell. Such an action would be a guaranteed success (in terms of actually hitting the target).

There is:

"You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target."

Nothing in CArc/RC for weaponlike spells though.

[Greenish]

On further research, Spellwarp Sniper allows you to use Coup de Grâce with a ray spell while adjacent to the target.

You could houserule allowing CdG with a spell (that has an attack roll) if adjacent to a valid target without breaking anything, methinks, but RAW it ain't.

[Barstro]

That still makes no logical sense to me, but Rules is Rules.

[heavyfuel]

You could houserule allowing CdG with a spell (that has an attack roll) if adjacent to a valid target without breaking anything, methinks, but RAW it ain't.

Agreed. There's no reason you would be able to CdG with a Bow but not a ray that springs from our finger. Seriously, talk to your DM about it.

[aleucard]

You're the DM, so just say that the caster's hand is either 1 inch away from the immobile target or actively touching them (in that case, the touch attack has already been made, now to cast the spell to go with it).

On a similar vein, I've always wanted to see about getting CDG-style effects out of Breath Weapons (read: perform an action similar to one of Reptile's more iconic Fatality types (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWj1abIhapQ)). After all, if someone's not immune to fire damage, being blown up like a balloon with a dragon's fire breath is gonna be pretty damn nasty, donchathink?

[Vogonjeltz]

PC really wants someone turned to dust and wants to guarantee that Disintegration hits.

Now, I've always felt that guaranteed things do not require rolls. Getting out of bed is automatic. Throwing yourself at the ground and trying to miss will not work.

In that same vein, I don't see how anyone could miss a sleeping target with a (ray) ranged touch attack spell cast while actually touching the target. But does RAW/RAI allow that, or is a roll needed?

Have you ever heard the phrase "Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn"? That's pretty much how someone could miss. They just blew it. On the up side, as Greenish details, missing is fairly difficult.

[KillianHawkeye]

I would say just allow it to happen.

Think about it: missing on a natural 1 and hitting on a natural 20 are supposed to represent the unexpected arrival of good or bad luck during the unpredictable confusion of a life-or-death battle. It's what allows an accomplished archer to still miss when their target is moving about, or an ordinary camper to get lucky and kill that wild animal in the forest. You could also say that it represents that surge of adrenaline that helps your attack connect (or helps your opponent just barely dodge out of the way).

Being in a room with an immobilized, helpless prisoner, or even standing over someone while they sleep? Those are entirely different circumstances. After all, why use D&D combat rules in a situation that doesn't actually involve combat?

[heavyfuel]

After all, why use D&D combat rules in a situation that doesn't actually involve combat?

Exactly! Much like called shots, while not allowed in combat, can still be made out of combat. Someone is sleeping and you want to poke his eye out? No problem! You don't even have to roll.

Also, not allowing for Disintegrate to work with a CdG is just a way to nerf casters even more! As if they didn't need all the help they could get