Looking for advice on monk warlock.

[Rfkannen]

So I was working on building a pact of blade warlock, I came up with a decent backstory wich I thought would go well with a little monk dip. However I am not entirely sure how to make this work, as I feel at the momenet that it will probably be pretty weak at all levels of play. and am wondering my my idea of a monk warlock would just be served better by a pure warlock3


My plan is to be a half elf with 8 strength, 16 dex, 15 con, 8 int, 8 wis, 17 charisma. 1st level warlock (pact of fiend?) next 3 go monk (no idea on path) and then the rest warlock. Eventual I would get pact of blade, bind a spear and in order pick up the actor feat (it is good combined with mask of many faces and bring my charisma to 18.) war caster inspiring leader and mage slayer(not sure about feats, level placement, or stats)

cantrip wise i am thinking blade ward, chill touch, minor illuision and friends.

Basically the idea is that he inherited his pact from his elf warlock mother, and he has a spark of demonic (or maby fey) energy within him acts as his patron that can make weapons from his blood, increase his armor, and of course cast magic. Also the spark would make d make him bloodthirsty and would whisper to him in his sleep. To represent the internal physical conection to his patron I chose monk so he can catch arrows (because badass) his unarmed strike takes the form of claws growing from his hands. Personality wise he is a egomaniac wants to take over the world and is chaotic good.

[Easy_Lee]

So I was working on building a pact of blade warlock, I came up with a decent backstory wich I thought would go well with a little monk dip. However I am not entirely sure how to make this work, as I feel at the momenet that it will probably be pretty weak at all levels of play. and am wondering my my idea of a monk warlock would just be served better by a pure warlock3


My plan is to be a half elf with 8 strength, 16 dex, 15 con, 8 int, 8 wis, 17 charisma. 1st level warlock (pact of fiend?) next 3 go monk (no idea on path) and then the rest warlock. Eventual I would get pact of blade, bind a spear and in order pick up the actor feat (it is good combined with mask of many faces and bring my charisma to 18.) war caster inspiring leader and mage slayer(not sure about feats, level placement, or stats)

cantrip wise i am thinking blade ward, chill touch, minor illuision and friends.

Basically the idea is that he inherited his pact from his elf warlock mother, and he has a spark of demonic (or maby fey) energy within him acts as his patron that can make weapons from his blood, increase his armor, and of course cast magic. Also the spark would make d make him bloodthirsty and would whisper to him in his sleep. To represent the internal physical conection to his patron I chose monk so he can catch arrows (because badass) his unarmed strike takes the form of claws growing from his hands. Personality wise he is a egomaniac wants to take over the world and is chaotic good.

You'll have severe MAD and won't get the full use out of any of your features. Also, taking 3 levels of monk and not four will lose you a stat increase. Instead, just talk your DM into letting yo treat your hands as 1d6 claws. Catching arrows is overrated, particularly since you won't have the ki to do it often.

[Rfkannen]

You'll have severe MAD and won't get the full use out of any of your features. Also, taking 3 levels of monk and not four will lose you a stat increase. Instead, just talk your DM into letting yo treat your hands as 1d6 claws. Catching arrows is overrated, particularly since you won't have the ki to do it often.

Why is it that mad? To me it just looks like dex and charisma? Hmm on second look you may be rite, but it doesnt look to bad if I took path of shadows.

I did 3 levels because I didnt want to lost my 9th level spell

claws were mostly just an excuse for unarmed atack

Why is it overrated? A bladelock is in a position that would get hit a lot, and it doesnt cost ki to catch the arrows, just send them back.

It may just be me but I feel that a pure bladelock just isnt strong enough in melee, do you have any other ideas that might work for a dip?

[CyberThread]

Most of this style has monk stop at 6 for the shadow step

[archaeo]

It may just be me but I feel that a pure bladelock just isnt strong enough in melee, do you have any other ideas that might work for a dip?

Nah, a "pure" bladelock will be as viable as, say, an Eldritch Knight or one of the other "core" hybrids. By taking the right invocations, you can be an excellent melee threat while still having a ton of flexibility thanks to your spells and cantrips.

[Ferrin33]

If you take Armor of Shadows you do not count as armored, allowing you to gain the benefits of your monk class features; At shadow monk 6 this would be; Martial Arts(d6), Ki(Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, Step of the Wind, Stunning Strike, Shadow Arts) Unarmored movement(15ft), Deflect Missiles(1d10+dex+6), Slow Fall(30), ASI(1), Extra Attack, Shadow Step and a total of 6 Ki points.

Of these benefits only stunning strike is useless if you don't focus on wisdom, and Deflect Missiles is still decent for defense, it only costs Ki if you throw it back.

Warlock 14 gives you 12 spells known up to 5th level, three 5th lvl spell slots recharging on short rests, and all of your Pact abilities. If you can somehow convince your DM to turn your fists into your Pact weapon (because of Ki-Empowered Strikes, "-count as magic for the purposes of-" cuts that thought short though, but it's interesting so you might get a pass) then you can take Lifedrinker and be a real threat in melee.

The 6 warlock levels you don't take would have given you; 8th and 9th level mystic arcanum spell, 1 extra 5th level spell recharging on short rest, one ASI, Eldritch Master(1/day, 1 minute cast recharge all of your pact magic spell slots), 2 invocations, three 5th level or lower spells known.

I'd say it's a very interesting trade-off.

[BW022]

Any build you enjoy playing is fine.

However, this likely a fairly weak build. Three levels of monk gives you:

* An unarmed AC of 12. (As opposed to a 14 with studded leather)
* d4 unarmed attack.
* An unarmed attack as a bonus action if you attack unarmed or with a monk weapon
* 3 ki points -- giving you an extra unarmed attack, dodge, disengage, or dash action.
* 10' movement rate increase
* Deflect missiles reaction, using a ki.
* Either Open Hand Technique, Shadow Arts, Discipline of Elements (using ki points)

For this you loose...
* Inability to wear armor
* Inability to use more damaging weapons, reach weapons, etc.
* Invocations delayed 3 levels
* Delaying spell slots by 3 levels. I.e. still casting 1st-level spells at 6th-level, 2nd at 7th, etc. You only have one spell slot until 5th-level.
* Delaying gaining your pact until 6th-level.
* Delaying gaining an ability score increase or feat until 7th level

I don't see the general point of this build. Your AC is way too low to be in melee, nor do you have any spell slots to have defensive spells up or powerful enough ones at your level to make a difference. That means using eldritch blast or ranged weapons which negates pretty much all your monk abilities.

I don't see the wisdom in being able to do a few d6+3 and d4+3 attacks in melee... if you can't take some serious hits in return.

[Hytheter]

It's a shame 5e doesn't yet have any of those feats that change the Ability things work off. Having a Wis Warlock or a Cha Monk would drastically improve any combination of the two.

[Ferrin33]

Any build you enjoy playing is fine.

However, this likely a fairly weak build. Three levels of monk gives you:

* An unarmed AC of 12. (As opposed to a 14 with studded leather)
* d4 unarmed attack.
* An unarmed attack as a bonus action if you attack unarmed or with a monk weapon
* 3 ki points -- giving you an extra unarmed attack, dodge, disengage, or dash action.
* 10' movement rate increase
* Deflect missiles reaction, using a ki.
* Either Open Hand Technique, Shadow Arts, Discipline of Elements (using ki points)

For this you loose...
* Inability to wear armor
* Inability to use more damaging weapons, reach weapons, etc.
* Invocations delayed 3 levels
* Delaying spell slots by 3 levels. I.e. still casting 1st-level spells at 6th-level, 2nd at 7th, etc. You only have one spell slot until 5th-level.
* Delaying gaining your pact until 6th-level.
* Delaying gaining an ability score increase or feat until 7th level

I don't see the general point of this build. Your AC is way too low to be in melee, nor do you have any spell slots to have defensive spells up or powerful enough ones at your level to make a difference. That means using eldritch blast or ranged weapons which negates pretty much all your monk abilities.

I don't see the wisdom in being able to do a few d6+3 and d4+3 attacks in melee... if you can't take some serious hits in return.

The best way is to dump wisdom, focus on dex cha con, and go shadow monk 6 for the infinite shadow jumps which work great with eldritch blast. You also still have 1d8+5(10) quarterstaff melee attacks and 1d6+5 unarmed strikes. Monk 7 or 8 gives an extra asi and evasion at the cost of your 8th lvl spell and little else which may be even better.

It has interesting benefits that make you stronger with more short rests but give up your high level spells.

[archaeo]

It's a shame 5e doesn't yet have any of those feats that change the Ability things work off. Having a Wis Warlock or a Cha Monk would drastically improve any combination of the two.

I bet some late-in-game dips might become more viable if you have a treasure-happy DM. Lots of players are going to be at an 18 in their primary stat by level 8, so by the time you start running into "set stat to 19" items, they'll go to players shoring up a weakness or looking to multiclass.

[Rfkannen]

Hmm okay I have been looking through this thread and it honestly just doesnt look worth it, I do not want to lose that lv 9 spell. I guess that I may just go warlock 20.

[Ferrin33]

Hmm okay I have been looking through this thread and it honestly just doesnt look worth it, I do not want to lose that lv 9 spell. I guess that I may just go warlock 20.

Keep in mind you keep the movement speed, shadow jump, and other passive goodies all day long, in addition to the 6-8 ki to spend and that you are a threat in melee.

[EternalHobbyist]

There are some really cool ideas here, I hope you don't mind if I attempt a sidetrack, as I am planning something similar for a character.

I would also like a Monk/Warlock, except that I want a truly dedicated Monk 14/ Warlock 6. The idea/story arc for the character would be that he left the monastery early because reasons, and then during his adventures, he is approached in meditation by "someone" claiming sympathy with his motivations and offers to "help" - basically my monk gets tricked into a Pact with some Patron of potentially-questionable motives.

This sets the stage for intrapersonal struggle and growth of the character as he balances his desire for individual perfection/independence vs. the lure of his Patron's raw power.

Why 14/6?
Thematically, I feel like the six levels in Warlock is a good balancing point for the character, who has to decide how much power (and thus influence) he will grant his Patron.

Mechanically, Diamond Soul figures heavily - gaining Proficiency in all Saving throws seems pretty powerful, though maybe I'm wrong on that one. I'm aware that I'm sacrificing an ASI for this build, but the two extra Warlock levels grant me access to the really flavorful Patron features, which I want more for character reasons than mechanical.

Mix it up
I'm pretty much set on Open Hand for the Monk, but I'm less certain about the Pact and Patron. Any of them could work for the character. For the Pact, I would prefer my Monk to go unarmed, and I don't see him toting around a pet, so I think the Tome might be the way to go.
For his Patron, my current favorite is the Old One, since it gives me the Awakened Mind feature. Combined with Tongue of Sun and Moon, you have a great in-game communicator, which opens up some pretty cool RP possibilities. Mechanically, though, the Archfey's Misty Escape and the Dark One's Blessing and Luck features would probably be more frequently useful.

So yeah, the character is looking a little muddled at this point. A strong melee fighter who uses otherworldly majicks to enhance his innate abilities, who can communicate with pretty much anyone (possibly telepathically), but is not super bright (can't be great at everything and apparently got tricked into a Pact).

I'm not looking to build an Ultimate Adventurer, so I don't need to maximize my damage output or utility. I want respectable amounts of both, obviously - I just don't want to miss out on some obvious synergy or waste a lot of effort on something with no tangible payoff.

Any advice is welcome, thanks!

[Rfkannen]

There are some really cool ideas here, I hope you don't mind if I attempt a sidetrack, as I am planning something similar for a character.

I would also like a Monk/Warlock, except that I want a truly dedicated Monk 14/ Warlock 6. The idea/story arc for the character would be that he left the monastery early because reasons, and then during his adventures, he is approached in meditation by "someone" claiming sympathy with his motivations and offers to "help" - basically my monk gets tricked into a Pact with some Patron of potentially-questionable motives.

This sets the stage for intrapersonal struggle and growth of the character as he balances his desire for individual perfection/independence vs. the lure of his Patron's raw power.

Why 14/6?
Thematically, I feel like the six levels in Warlock is a good balancing point for the character, who has to decide how much power (and thus influence) he will grant his Patron.

Mechanically, Diamond Soul figures heavily - gaining Proficiency in all Saving throws seems pretty powerful, though maybe I'm wrong on that one. I'm aware that I'm sacrificing an ASI for this build, but the two extra Warlock levels grant me access to the really flavorful Patron features, which I want more for character reasons than mechanical.

Mix it up
I'm pretty much set on Open Hand for the Monk, but I'm less certain about the Pact and Patron. Any of them could work for the character. For the Pact, I would prefer my Monk to go unarmed, and I don't see him toting around a pet, so I think the Tome might be the way to go.
For his Patron, my current favorite is the Old One, since it gives me the Awakened Mind feature. Combined with Tongue of Sun and Moon, you have a great in-game communicator, which opens up some pretty cool RP possibilities. Mechanically, though, the Archfey's Misty Escape and the Dark One's Blessing and Luck features would probably be more frequently useful.

So yeah, the character is looking a little muddled at this point. A strong melee fighter who uses otherworldly majicks to enhance his innate abilities, who can communicate with pretty much anyone (possibly telepathically), but is not super bright (can't be great at everything and apparently got tricked into a Pact).

I'm not looking to build an Ultimate Adventurer, so I don't need to maximize my damage output or utility. I want respectable amounts of both, obviously - I just don't want to miss out on some obvious synergy or waste a lot of effort on something with no tangible payoff.

Any advice is welcome, thanks!

Hmm monk 14 warlock 6 is a pretty good build. I honestly don't have to much advise but I would recomend if your starting at lv 1 to start warlock and then go monk, it is more powerfull, plus it would be weird for him to have no magic if he made a pact. Second level I would go monk.

[Rfkannen]

Oh also, to me it seems that the only weapon a warlock 20 with high dex would use is a rapier and I thought that monk would diversivy that, is there any other weapon worth useing?

[Ferrin33]

Oh also, to me it seems that the only weapon a warlock 20 with high dex would use is a rapier and I thought that monk would diversivy that, is there any other weapon worth useing?

As monk/warlock? Quarterstaff/spear when you smack people with two hands. Which shouldn't be an issue most of the time as you can't use shields anyway. Also, you don't have proficiency with a rapier as Monk/Warlock, nor is it a monk weapon.

[Rfkannen]

As monk/warlock? Quarterstaff/spear when you smack people with two hands. Which shouldn't be an issue most of the time as you can't use shields anyway. Also, you don't have proficiency with a rapier as Monk/Warlock, nor is it a monk weapon.

Ah sorry I was not clear, I was planning to use a spear on the monk dip, which i may just not do, but I meant on a pure warlock 20 using a rapier. Also warlocks are always proficient in their pact weapon.

[Ferrin33]

Ah sorry I was not clear, I was planning to use a spear on the monk dip, which i may just not do, but I meant on a pure warlock 20 using a rapier. Also warlocks are always proficient in their pact weapon.

Ah yes, was still with Pact of the Tome on my mind because you mentioned earlier that you didn't think Blade was up to par for melee.

[Rfkannen]

Thanks for all the advise, after hearing all this I think I am just going to take one level of fighter and the rest warlock. I think that Will put me enough in melee.

[Ferrin33]

Thanks for all the advise, after hearing all this I think I am just going to take one level of fighter and the rest warlock. I think that Will put me enough in melee.

How, exactly? One level of fighter only gives you armor and weapon proficiencies and the fighting style which is hardly enough to be considered good in melee. You would need multiple attacks to boost your damage, and unless you're going to take Pact of the Blade I don't see that happening. The armor proficiency is also worthless unless you either go for less dexterity for medium armor, or no dexterity for heavy armor. The single level of Fighter adds nothing meaningful that you could not get similar of as single classed warlock.

[Rfkannen]

How, exactly? One level of fighter only gives you armor and weapon proficiencies and the fighting style which is hardly enough to be considered good in melee. You would need multiple attacks to boost your damage, and unless you're going to take Pact of the Blade I don't see that happening. The armor proficiency is also worthless unless you either go for less dexterity for medium armor, or no dexterity for heavy armor. The single level of Fighter adds nothing meaningful that you could not get similar of as single classed warlock.

I am almost definitly going pact of blade, no matter what on this warlock I will as it is to awesome fluff wise to pass out on. Also I was mostly doing it for two reasons, some survivability froms second wind, and the fighting styles look pretty awesome. If it turns out those things realy arent worth it I will prob just go warlock 20.

[Ferrin33]

I am almost definitly going pact of blade, no matter what on this warlock I will as it is to awesome fluff wise to pass out on. Also I was mostly doing it for two reasons, some survivability froms second wind, and the fighting styles look pretty awesome. If it turns out those things realy arent worth it I will prob just go warlock 20.

Second Wind is 2-11 health per short rest, by 20th level you have 200+, of the fighting styles it depends on what kind of armor and weapons you're thinking of using(Which depends on the invocations you're using). I would go for at least Fighter2 for the Action Surge once per short rest. Paladin2 gives you 2 spell slots, some changeable spells known, including Cure Wounds for a lot of healing extra per short rest with your Pact Magic, also gives you the choice of a Fighting Style, Divine Smite for extra burst damage at times, and Lay on Hands to cure poison, disease, or a little bit of extra health per day. Paladin6 gives you 2nd level spell slots and paladin spells known including the Find Mount spell, it also gives the incredible Aura of Protection which lets you add your Cha modifier to all saving throws for you and allies within 10 feet of you, it also gives you Extra Attack without using an invocation slot, immunity from diseases from divine health, more Lay on Hands per day, and some possible goodies from your oath.

But ok, Fighter does give you medium armor, shield, and a small bonus through Fighting Style. It'll depend on the attributes you'll take and what you choose to focus on a lot. Fighter gives you the ability for lower dex and still high AC, as well as a shield.

[Rfkannen]

Second Wind is 2-11 health per short rest, by 20th level you have 200+, of the fighting styles it depends on what kind of armor and weapons you're thinking of using(Which depends on the invocations you're using). I would go for at least Fighter2 for the Action Surge once per short rest. Paladin2 gives you 2 spell slots, some changeable spells known, including Cure Wounds for a lot of healing extra per short rest with your Pact Magic, also gives you the choice of a Fighting Style, Divine Smite for extra burst damage at times, and Lay on Hands to cure poison, disease, or a little bit of extra health per day. Paladin6 gives you 2nd level spell slots and paladin spells known including the Find Mount spell, it also gives the incredible Aura of Protection which lets you add your Cha modifier to all saving throws for you and allies within 10 feet of you, it also gives you Extra Attack without using an invocation slot, immunity from diseases from divine health, more Lay on Hands per day, and some possible goodies from your oath.

But ok, Fighter does give you medium armor, shield, and a small bonus through Fighting Style. It'll depend on the attributes you'll take and what you choose to focus on a lot. Fighter gives you the ability for lower dex and still high AC, as well as a shield.


Paladin does look good but it would be weird fluff wise.

Hmm What I may do is go to level 4, grab the war caster feat, see if I am to squishy or don't do enough damage ill grab a level of fighter or two, a sheild would be usefull with war caster.