Thrallherd Mechanics Question (3.5)

[Captain051]

So in a campaign that I'm in, I'm getting to the point where I'm looking at PrCs and, being a Psion, Thrallherd looks pretty cool from both a power and RP perspective. I asked my DM about it because I'm still fairly new. I was essentially asking if I could do it (characters must be approved) and how it would work regarding thralls and believers. While he said I could do it, one of the main things that really shot a hole in this idea was when he asked where I expect the thrall and believers to come from (setting for our adventure is in a relatively closed world, the RP is that our players entered because of an overpowering calling to enter) because to my knowledge, there are no cities or villages from which the thrall and believers could come from within the campaign setting. There are plenty of places outside of the area where the campaign is taking place, but none (that I know of) within it.

My understanding of the text for Thrallherd was that your thrall and believers simply appear within a day because they were subconsciously called to come to you. Or that they appear by you instead of having to be already existing somewhere on the map.

Can someone please clarify this for me? I'm not quite sure of the mechanics of this and need a bit of help

[KillianHawkeye]

Well they don't just appear out of thin air, right? They have to be ordinary, weak-willed people that actually exist somewhere nearby in the world. If you are somewhere that normal people cannot easily get to, then I would expect to have some trouble actually acquiring any mindslaves.

[Captain051]

I was thinking something similar. Would it make sense to say that the thrall is able to get to the scene of the campaign but the believers are killed before the get there?

[KillianHawkeye]

I was thinking something similar. Would it make sense to say that the thrall is able to get to the scene of the campaign but the believers are killed before the get there?

Your DM is the only one who can possibly answer that question. :smallamused:

[Captain051]

That makes sense.

Also, how are the class and race of the Thrall determined? The ECL appears to be set by the table: Thrallherd, but both Thrallherd and Leadership don't get very specific about this.

[Daishain]

The fluff is that they are called away from whatever lives they were living and traveled to you by whatever reasonable means they had. In most cases, this would be by foot, with little to no particular ability aside from sheer numbers to handle hostile wildlife in the way. (bear in mind that while they are enthralled, believers are not mindless, and would be perfectly capable of realizing on their own that the master would be better served if they worked together on their journey to his side)

If there are no settlements and almost no people in the areal. I would personally rule that you get far fewer believers than normal, and/or they take much longer to get to you. Thralls are potentially another story, suitable subjects for that position tend to be found just about everywhere, and are more likely to find a way around obstacles.

If there are no suitable thralls and believers on your current plane of existence at all, you don't get any until that changes.

Bear in mind, suitable believers don't have to be human, or even humanoid. If it is an intelligent creature that does not have an above average level of mental fortitude, it is potentially a valid subject to be called by the ability. (and even that last requirement is not actually defined, but rather an assumption I made concerning the way this seems to be made to work.) Note that the decision of what actually answers the call is up to your DM, even an incredibly generous one probably should balk at the idea of having an army of troll commoners.


That makes sense.

Also, how are the class and race of the Thrall determined? The ECL appears to be set by the table: Thrallherd, but both Thrallherd and Leadership don't get very specific about this.

Officially, it is the DM's choice. Traditionally, the player makes up a character (that makes sense and isn't bloated with cheese), and asks the DM to approve it. Typically, from both a practical and roleplaying perspective, your thrall/cohort should be of a lower optimization level than is usually tolerated in a player character. They're a sidekick/apprentice/manservant/squire, not a hero themselves.

[KillianHawkeye]

Also, how are the class and race of the Thrall determined? The ECL appears to be set by the table: Thrallherd, but both Thrallherd and Leadership don't get very specific about this.

They are determined by the DM in whatever way he or she sees fit. Remember, the Leadership feat is actually found in the Dungeon Master's Guide, not the Player's Handbook.

[Captain051]

That helped a lot. Thanks for the quick replies!

[Urpriest]

They are determined by the DM in whatever way he or she sees fit. Remember, the Leadership feat is actually found in the Dungeon Master's Guide, not the Player's Handbook.

That said, since there's no penalty for death and they're crazy loyal, if you want to be rather thoroughly cheesy you can just keep killing them until you get ones you want.

RAW, they just show up, but most DMs will balk at the sheer causality-violation that causes. Sure, you might have been issuing a subconscious call since before you entered the PrC, but when it comes time to replace a dead thrall/believer, it's a little silly that one started coming before the previous one died.

A plausible way to do it would be for these guys to start traveling when the "call" begins, whether it's when you take your first level in the PrC or when one of the ones you've already gathered dies.

That said, it shouldn't be too hard for you specifically to find thralls/believers. You guys are only where you are because of an "overpowering calling to enter", so presumably another such overpowering calling could just bring in more people.

Also, as has been mentioned, anything with an LA is potentially fair game, if there's anything like that where you are.

[Bronk]

...(setting for our adventure is in a relatively closed world, the RP is that our players entered because of an overpowering calling to enter) because to my knowledge, there are no cities or villages from which the thrall and believers could come from within the campaign setting. There are plenty of places outside of the area where the campaign is taking place, but none (that I know of) within it.

There's no range listed on the ability, so the new people could come in the same way you did, however that was. Truly, it sounds like your characters were following a similar thrall-like call to get there in the first place! Perhaps the DM could use this to his advantage to populate the area. Or, you could use it as a way to keep informed about the outside world. Need a living newspaper? Knock off a believer and wait for a new one to show up with news the next day!

If it was a dangerous journey in for your PCs, maybe believers and thralls take longer to arrive due to attrition and those that showed up would need healing...

Edit: You might want to check out the AGC webcomic. It's all good, but you might want to look at page 475ish on (storyline starts at 467ish I think).

[StreamOfTheSky]

Not every concept will fit every campaign world.

It sounds like the one your DM has set up would not work well with a class that pulls in potentially hundreds of NPCs over time, or not without being very noticeable (if they're being drawn just from the place you're in) and inevitably having...consequences.

Shelve it for a game where it wouldn't be a problem. I have to do that with concepts all the time. It happens.