If you were a (Insert Spellcasting Class)...

[Xar Zarath]

You become a Base class spellcaster* as per the 3.5e or Pathfinder or 3.5p if you so choose right here on Earth. You have to gain xp and stuff...what do you do?

instead of using gp, instead it was US dollars... (you would still have to translate gold to dollars so I guess there will be little difference:smallredface:) and you can do the salt and iron trick thing, if you get that high level...

Earth is mundane (i.e no magic and stuff except for you) but there are Outer Planes which we cannot reach since we lack the capability so no worries of a demon horde or such (unless you bring one in!)

*since you peeps like druids and whatnot, sure why not make it general. Choose away and lets make Earth tremble!!!

[Azoth]

Take bets on how long until I innevitably misuse my arcane powers to turn somone into a family sized batch of extra crispy.

[Hamste]

First I would get a gun and hunting license. I would then hunt boar. Killing a single boar gives me 600 exp so I should level quickly. Maybe move somewhere where butchering dogs and horses is ok and try to be hired as a butcher assistant with no previous experience. This should be enough to get me to at least level three (probably higher but level three is the important part). Eventually, I quit and then move to Vegas to do some magic shows. I save money until I have enough to start crafting a bunch of items. Eventually, I will be so over equipped I will be able to kill things with out danger and from there I grind up until I reach the maximum reasonable level I can reach (which is surprisingly high, an 8 level caster by themselves has an epl of 4 so a brown bear is still a challenge)

[Skysaber]

I really like the boar option. You could also train as a butcher, then work in a slaughterhouse. I know of colleges where they train, and a well oiled team can get a full cow from live on the hoof to packaged meat in the freezer in two minutes.

Use Scholar's Touch and an Eidetic Memory feat to earn myself a bazillion PHDs.

But I'd probably not be able to use my powers responsibly. I'd probably prank the living daylights out of politicians I don't like.

[Dalebert]

What about people? I mean, there are probably a bunch of common criminals that qualify as low-level rogues. You don't even have to kill them to get x.p. You just have to defeat them, maybe even just evade them if they are an obstacle on the way to your "goals". There may be other people who are douchey who qualify as low-level fighters. You wouldn't want to mess with non-douchey people, of course.

I would consider using my arcane powers for drug running across borders. I don't have any problem with breaking laws as long as I'm not being immoral and I think the drug war is very immoral. It would be a great way to earn cash in a manner that I'm morally comfortable with. I wouldn't be okay with stealing, for instance.

I'm not sure how viable making magic items would be. That could get very expensive. As of this posting, I just looked up gold value and a troy ounce is worth about $1200. A lvl 1 wand at CL1 would cost you 375 gp to make. At 50 gp to a pound, that means you'd need a little over 7 lbs of gold. At roughly 14 troy oz to a lb, that's 7 * 14 * $1200 or about $120,000 for a wand of magic missiles. Most wondrous items are > 1k gp. You can probably obtain Heisenberg levels of cash though so I guess it's viable. Just that the opportunity cost (other mundane things you could do with that money) are significant.

[Nousos]

I would use prestidigitation from day one to perform magician shows and gain experience through social encounters and the use of skills every day. Nothing says you can only gain exp through murder. A wizard can level solely through the use and study of his magic over time, this just isn't done when playing since it makes for a boring game.

If you practiced killing things with guns and other modern equipment, then guess what, you leveled up as a fighter or ranger.

[Val666]

I would **** everthing

[Nousos]

I would **** everthing

Just cast diguise self and charm person and you can do exactly that.

Hell, you could even take to the streets at night and pretend you are batman. Color spray would shut down just about any common thief, or you could just true strike a batarang and follow up with cause fear.

[Dalebert]

If you practiced killing things with guns and other modern equipment, then guess what, you leveled up as a fighter or ranger.

Not really. Think about how much time a 1st level wizard spends shooting at things with a crossbow after burning through his three or four first level spells. Strictly RAW, you get generic xp from adventuring, and then you choose what class to gain a level in. It's simply assumed that, if you're about to level dip in some way, you've been practicing on the side with those new skill sets.

[PaucaTerrorem]

I would become Batman. Not Batman wizard, I would polymorph into the actual Batman.

[aleucard]

Probably spend a significant amount of time doing research on how my new magical abilities work (which does double duty of both giving me some XP and letting me research my new spells). First order of business would be figuring out some way to market my magic without raising eyebrows. Find spells that do permanent effects (preferably Instantaneous rather than Permanent), and figure out a way to deploy them that would need a trained eye to tell the difference (a modified potion of Prestidigitation for the perfect shampoo, for instance). If/when I generate a significant amount of capital, figure out a way to set up a quasi-PMC for all sorts of jobs and use my enchanted gear to make sure that my group's that little bit better. Use the cash to multiply my researching, with me taking the occasional job for XP and to get my name on the map. After that, figure out ways to solve various humanitarian issues at my leisure, and just in general do whatever the Hell I want, using various Divinations to figure out if I'm in danger at any given point.

[Nousos]

Exactly, in game you were practicing on the side. But in the real world, if you put that much of your time into hunting animals or some such thing, then thats a large chunk of time you weren't practicing your magic, and were gaining another skill instead.

Just like your crossbow example, if you were actually using magic during those encounters and using weapons as a last resort I would agree. Though since wizards aren't proficient in firearms, unless you learned how to use them prior, you either waste a feat when you next get one, or you cast true strike before shooting.

Again though, there is no need to go out of your way to hunt and fight things is all i'm trying to say. In order to make it worth all the time you spend doing it, (since every hunter doesn't score a kill every time) you would end up needing points in several skills and likely the track feat, and would end up with maybe a dip in ranger. It's all counterintuitive when there are many ways to use your magic out of danger and still get exp. Even something like charm person to get a loan or a promotion would warrant exp, and you wouldn't have to gain any new skills or go out of your way.

Edit- Also, the largest priority for feats is going to be metamagic like still spell and silent spell, (at least if you want a low profile) so wasting one on firearm proficiency is detrimental.

[Dalebert]

I tell you what--it's not a game. My real life and my freedom would be on the line so I'd be VERY cautious in my endeavors. I'd be in a hurry to get Protection from Normal Missiles Arrows so guns wouldn't be an issue for me.

[Skysaber]

First order of business would be figuring out some way to market my magic without raising eyebrows. Find spells that do permanent effects (preferably Instantaneous rather than Permanent), and figure out a way to deploy them that would need a trained eye to tell the difference (a modified potion of Prestidigitation for the perfect shampoo, for instance). If/when I generate a significant amount of capital,

50gp for a level one potion, half that for a cantrip. How are you going to sell a bottle of shampoo for half a pound of gold? That's roughly $8,121.02. For one use.

If you can find out a way to make "a significant amount of capital" selling shampoo at that price, you are a good enough salesman you don't need magic.

[sideswipe]

i get a ladder and an axe....... profit

[Daishain]

I'd grow in power and research new spells the hard way to begin with. In other words, I do what I already do, study.

One of my first focuses would be to abuse divination spells to win various games of chance, get enough funds to live comfortably while pursuing these strange new skills

Get to about level 5, with as many independently researched spells I can manage that will allow me to function independent of a party. It is at this point that I become The Batman, (although I think if I were to use an animal motif, it would probably be a Raven) and moonlight taking down criminal and terrorist organizations around the world, always via means that cannot be traced back to anyone that actually exists.

The previous step never really goes away, but gets pushed to the side once I gain the power and influence to become a significant corporate and political power. An organization under my control with the express purpose of improving the lot of the human race by any and all means possible. again, divination spells get abused.

[ranagrande]

I'd just use Comprehend Languages to be the best translator ever. Ancient Etruscan, here I come!

[aleucard]

50gp for a level one potion, half that for a cantrip. How are you going to sell a bottle of shampoo for half a pound of gold? That's roughly $8,121.02. For one use.

If you can find out a way to make "a significant amount of capital" selling shampoo at that price, you are a good enough salesman you don't need magic.

The problem is that that's not the value of gold in 3.5. The value of gold is directly related to the value of the currency, and the price of an average dagger is 1 gp. That translates to 1 gp roughly equaling 20-50 USD. This is also assuming that the cost of the material components are the same in the 3.5 world as in real life, whatever those components are, and also assuming that the cost isn't actually just markup for the average cost of XP, and the physical component is just water (with the 3.5 costs being what's necessary to ensure the XP expenditure doesn't have other more negative remnants). Thing is, we don't know if the various unspecified ingredients for a potion cost that much because the people selling them know what they're used for and thus adjust the price to the level of demand. For all we know, the key ingredient could be a weed over here. Besides, there's other things that could be done for a low-level Wizard to market themselves without being noticed as a magic-user, this was just the first thing that popped into my mind.

EDIT: From re-reading this, the first segment seems somewhat odd. To clarify, keep in mind that the average price for a decent pint of beer is 3 cp. What's the average price for a comparable amount of beer in a convenience store? Now, compare the fact that 1 beer is 3% of the cost of a dagger (read: knife) in 3.5 and the cost ratio of those objects is noticeably higher in real life. Using the prices listed in the 3.5 books as absolute costs in 3.5 is just not going to work, even if you figure out a sane conversion ratio of one currency to another (and I'm assuming that 1 gp could be made out of paper and carry the same buying power if it could be verified as valid, so comparing the cost of gold/silver/copper is not going to work).

[Dalebert]

The problem is that that's not the value of gold in 3.5.

Oh, I have wondered that to. This is just one of many questions that gets raised by the idea of translating game stuph into the real mundane world. There's obvious benefit to being the ONLY person who can use magic in a mundane world, but then there are obvious downsides. For instance, I assume there's no chance of ever happening across a magic item that you didn't make yourself so you won't be finding any scrolls of new spells. The game doesn't specify what components are in a potion. It just says you have to spend money on unspecified expensive ingredients.

But strictly RAW, the game doesn't adjust for market factors. It doesn't list magic item creation rules in terms of however many values of a dagger worth of the current currency. It lists them in gold. We're exploring the benefits of being the only wizard in a mundane world. But there are also downsides to trying to do wizard things in a mundane world. Thank goodness the rules don't get specific and list a changeling heart as a component of a disguise self potion. Then it wouldn't matter how much gold you get your hands on. You ain't buying one.

[incarnate236]

Can I be Pathfinder wizard? At will prestidigitation and mage hand in the modern world would be a lot of fun.

[Leviting]

with mage hand, I would never have to reach for the remote again! And with prestidigitation, I wouldn't have to wash my hands! Think of the possibilities!

[Bad Wolf]

I'd level up by killing chipmunks and other things, maybe like hunting and things. Then, I'd cast Animate Dead on a T-Rex skeleton I bought/dug up, and cast a spell made by me that duplicates an Awaken Undead, but gives every zombie affected by it 18 Intelligence. Then, run for Presidency.

No one's going to argue with the guy who has a Tyrannosauruses Rex as his vice president.

[Dalebert]

I think a Hat of Disguise would be worth making even if it did cost a few hundred thousand dollars. Oh, the mischief I could make. And that could help to get you out of quite a few binds also as long as we're being extra cautious.

[Baroknik]

The best way to generate spells in this setting isn't research... It's finding a way to gain 1 negative level.
1) Find a way to get to 1000xp.
2) Add 2 level 1 spells to your spell book.
3) Lose one level.
4) Gain 500xp.
5) See Steps 2-4 until you have all level 1 spells.
6) Gain 2000xp.
...

[Jacob.Tyr]

I'd level up by killing chipmunks and other things, maybe like hunting and things. Then, I'd cast Animate Dead on a T-Rex skeleton I bought/dug up, and cast a spell made by me that duplicates an Awaken Undead, but gives every zombie affected by it 18 Intelligence. Then, run for Presidency.

No one's going to argue with the guy who has a Tyrannosauruses Rex as his vice president.
See, I worked hunting small animals for about two years, and at the end of it I definitely only got a feat (Exotic Weapon Proficiency) and maybe a +1 to BAB. You can kill as many chipmunks as you like, but it takes more than that to get Sue walking and talking.

Ray of frost to keep my drinks cold, mount to get around, and endure elements for dealing with bad weather. Mending would be nice, just to keep things in good shape- never have to buy shoes again, and I bet I could at least fix my exhaust pipe and some other car issues.

So I ride around in a t-shirt and shorts on a magical horse in the dead of winter, am a hit at parties, and can finally stop pretending like I know how to use half the stuff in my tool box. Level one is pretty great.

[Oneris]

What about buying a salt mine and using the 5gp:1lb salt conversion to fund your magic-item crafting?

[Hamste]

The best way to generate spells in this setting isn't research... It's finding a way to gain 1 negative level.
1) Find a way to get to 1000xp.
2) Add 2 level 1 spells to your spell book.
3) Lose one level.
4) Gain 500xp.
5) See Steps 2-4 until you have all level 1 spells.
6) Gain 2000xp.
...

If you get up to 3rd level you can fell drain a sonic snap to give yourself a negative level and just choose a lower level spell when you gain spells if you want to fill up your first level spells.



Also a note on the weapons thing. They said we were using the xp rules of D&D and our only choice offered to us was wizard, no other class was offered as an option in this chance and it is not like any D&D class that uses D&D exp rules actually occurs in our world. Therefore if we get enough xp, it doesn't matter how we trained we are gaining a level in wizard as there is no other class we could gain.

[Illven]

Would Enchanter ACF, grant us the cohort? If so, how much control do we have over what they are?

[Dalebert]

I always trade out a familiar for an ACF but I think I'd actually like to have like a raven familiar IRL.

[geekintheground]

love how everyone jumped to "kill stuff for exp!"...
i'd probably use prestidigitation a ton. and try to get exp through other encounter types. i just convinced my parents to give me money, GAIN EXP! i just narrowly avoided getting caught stealing a cookie from the cookie jar, GAIN EXP! and a cookie! maybe eventually i'd have to resort to killing stuff, but i'd probably be on my way to taking over the world by then, so it would be killing rebels

[Oneris]

If you joined a theater group, would you gain extra Roleplaying Exp?

[Ravens_cry]

Probably experiment with my spells, see what they can do.

[Hamste]

love how everyone jumped to "kill stuff for exp!"...
i'd probably use prestidigitation a ton. and try to get exp through other encounter types. i just convinced my parents to give me money, GAIN EXP! i just narrowly avoided getting caught stealing a cookie from the cookie jar, GAIN EXP! and a cookie! maybe eventually i'd have to resort to killing stuff, but i'd probably be on my way to taking over the world by then, so it would be killing rebels

Or you can do it the quick way instead of trying to level up through whatever small amount you get for overcoming many many low cr encounters. Two boars and you have more than enough exp to level. Assuming a cr of 1/8 (On par with killing a single rat) you get 38 exp you need 26 in order to level. You could theoretically level up to level 7 from it you would need 553 of these encounter to do so (700 if it is cr 1/10). Killing cr 2 boars you take 30 boars to level up level 7 and you can get up to level 10 if you wanted to just off single boars. Best of all, boars are classified as pests around several parts of Canada and US and are very common in certain parts making the killing of them relatively easy as long as you know what you are dealing with. This doesn't even figure how quickly you can level up if you get the full exp from butchering horses or dogs.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I should just become an exterminator of really badly rat infested buildings to start. If I kill 120 rats at the same time I get 4500 exp (Enough to get up to level 3 if you are allowed to level up multiple times from one encounter), because my party level is so low from there being just one of me, if I kill another 120 I get another 4500 exp enough to get me up to 4th level. I can then repeat this up to level 7 and it would still be probably be quicker than trying to do it one 1/8 cr challenge a couple of times per day (Though that isn't factoring in the time it takes for people to trust you by yourself with a deadly gas). This of course assumes that the rats don't form a swarm in which case their cr actually becomes smaller.

[Forrestfire]

My first thought is to find a way to get exp quickly and easily. Encounters with something on the line might give exp. Find a friend, bet money, or something important, or the like on a videogame. Repeat. Even if they're just a level 1 commoner, you should hit level 2 before the end of the day. Possibly further than that. If we need to, we can move on to shooting wild boar, or possibly going to a casino and playing poker (because I'm sure that seasoned players are at least a level or two higher than some random person). Our goal here is to hit level 9, at which point we take Extra Spell (Restoration). That a lot of boars, or a lot of noncombat encounters (I wonder if exams for classes count), but we can grind exp and make it. After that, we need to hit 10.

Now that we're level 10 and have Restoration, we can start breaking RAI into itty bitty pieces.

We need three things:

An Eternal Wand of Transference (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a). Sink whatever money we have into raw materials for it. We can retrain the feat afterwards if we need to.
A friend who has gotten either a rank in Use Magic Device, or the ability to cast arcane spells. If we need to, we can just summon a familiar for this, and have it take the skill. In fact, that's probably for the best.
A Fell Drain Sonic Snap.
A whole lot of powdered diamond.


Start by hitting yourself with a sonic snap, causing level drain. At the end of the day, fail the save. You've been put from however much exp you had to 40,500 exp, the halfway point between 9 and 10. Have your familiar use Transference to let you pour your exp into it for storage, bringing you to 36,000. Cast Restoration, and you're back to level 10, at 45,000 exp. Repeat another two times over the next two days. Finally, have your familiar try to make a scroll, using your Scribe Scroll feat to provide that prerequisite (per the rules in the DMG on sharing item creation prereqs). Because this is not the item your Transference contract stipulated, all the exp you invested in them returns to you, bringing you to 58,500 exp. Ding! You're level 11.

Repeat this process. You gain a level every three days, because of the way the exp table math works. Phenomenal cosmic power in a month. Make sure no one notices you doing all this before you've become a god. On top of that, because of the way leveling up works, you're getting four times your allotment of spells added to your book for free. I suggest taking the Eidetic Wizard ACF, it seems more safe.

[Vogonjeltz]

You become a wizard as per the 3.5e base class right here on Earth. You have to gain xp and stuff...what do you do?

I would be deeply worried that I'm expected to have 4 level appropriate encounters per day.

[Hamste]

116 boars to get to level 10. Annoying but doable with enough hard work.

[Forrestfire]

I would be deeply worried that I'm expected to have 4 level appropriate encounters per day.

Oh yeah, don't forget the cats :smalleek:

[Vogonjeltz]

Oh yeah, don't forget the cats :smalleek:

Cats? Think of the DM! If you're really lucky, he's not trying to railroad you.

[Jacob.Tyr]

Or you can do it the quick way instead of trying to level up through whatever small amount you get for overcoming many many low cr encounters. Two boars and you have more than enough exp to level. Assuming a cr of 1/8 (On par with killing a single rat) you get 38 exp you need 26 in order to level. You could theoretically level up to level 7 from it you would need 553 of these encounter to do so (700 if it is cr 1/10). Killing cr 2 boars you take 30 boars to level up level 7 and you can get up to level 10 if you wanted to just off single boars. Best of all, boars are classified as pests around several parts of Canada and US and are very common in certain parts making the killing of them relatively easy as long as you know what you are dealing with. This doesn't even figure how quickly you can level up if you get the full exp from butchering horses or dogs.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I should just become an exterminator of really badly rat infested buildings to start. If I kill 120 rats at the same time I get 4500 exp (Enough to get up to level 3 if you are allowed to level up multiple times from one encounter), because my party level is so low from there being just one of me, if I kill another 120 I get another 4500 exp enough to get me up to 4th level. I can then repeat this up to level 7 and it would still be probably be quicker than trying to do it one 1/8 cr challenge a couple of times per day (Though that isn't factoring in the time it takes for people to trust you by yourself with a deadly gas). This of course assumes that the rats don't form a swarm in which case their cr actually becomes smaller.
Find a recently closed/abandoned restaurant or grocer (1-4 weeks should be good) and set it on fire. Or, slightly more legal, throw a pile of wood in your back yard and just start dumping all of your garbage on top of it. After a month, have a big bonfire.

[...]

Regret not choosing to be a Druid.

[geekintheground]

Regret not choosing to be a Druid.

i wanna change mine to this. a druid gets a loyal, obedient animal companion at 1st level. sure, wizards get familiars which are smarter, but animal companions are more cuddly. plus i kinda prefer the druid casting list, and there isnt that big of a power gap at level one (i dont think...)

[Bad Wolf]

Druids are awesome, but wild-shaping is sort of useless against guns and tranquilizers.

[geekintheground]

Druids are awesome, but wild-shaping is sort of useless against guns and tranquilizers.

wildshaping means level 5, which means windwall (30% miss chance) and other defensive buffs.

[...]

Druids are awesome, but wild-shaping is sort of useless against guns and tranquilizers.

Wild shape aberration says hi. Oh, WSA, I love you so.

[Xar Zarath]

Can I be Pathfinder wizard? At will prestidigitation and mage hand in the modern world would be a lot of fun.

Sure, why not and since we're at it lets make it 3.P

[SiuiS]

First I would get a gun and hunting license. I would then hunt boar. Killing a single boar gives me 600 exp so I should level quickly. Maybe move somewhere where butchering dogs and horses is ok and try to be hired as a butcher assistant with no previous experience. This should be enough to get me to at least level three (probably higher but level three is the important part). Eventually, I quit and then move to Vegas to do some magic shows. I save money until I have enough to start crafting a bunch of items. Eventually, I will be so over equipped I will be able to kill things with out danger and from there I grind up until I reach the maximum reasonable level I can reach (which is surprisingly high, an 8 level caster by themselves has an epl of 4 so a brown bear is still a challenge)

Butchery wouldn't work. The example system in the DMG shows that the monster alone is irrelevant; orcs are harder (and worth more XP) if they flank you on cliffs and drop bombs from cover, for example. Killing a cow with a hammer in an enclosure is not an encounter, at least not once you become used to it and no longer suffer game driving drama from the emotional turmoil.

Yes, this means the sucker who can't harm a fly has a better shot at XP than the hardened veteran.


I would **** everthing

Not until you got polymorph you wouldn't.


Just cast diguise self and charm person and you can do exactly that.

Charm does not work that way. Or women do not work that way.

Men might. :smallwink:

[Xar Zarath]

Would Enchanter ACF, grant us the cohort? If so, how much control do we have over what they are?

well for this scenario, you can only gain a cohort from Earth. So only human, and whatever person you want I suppose. Unless you level and gain planar binding at which point you can cohort a succubus or whatever :smallamused:

[...]

Men might. :smallwink:

They might? I think you might be underestimating us.

[Rubik]

First I would get a gun and hunting license. I would then hunt boar. Killing a single boar gives me 600 exp so I should level quickly. Maybe move somewhere where butchering dogs and horses is ok and try to be hired as a butcher assistant with no previous experience. This should be enough to get me to at least level three (probably higher but level three is the important part). Eventually, I quit and then move to Vegas to do some magic shows. I save money until I have enough to start crafting a bunch of items. Eventually, I will be so over equipped I will be able to kill things with out danger and from there I grind up until I reach the maximum reasonable level I can reach (which is surprisingly high, an 8 level caster by themselves has an epl of 4 so a brown bear is still a challenge)Nah. Elephants are where it's at. One Ray of Stupidity will drop one, so that's a virtually guaranteed win with one or more cr 7s.

[Dalebert]

As long as we're considering Pathfinder, I'd probably go with Illusionist (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/illusion) for some of the cool perks (and also for the unlimited cantrips). Swift action invisibility (eventually) could save your tail in a number of situations. I'd probably take Evocation and Necromancy as my oppositions. You can still cast them in PF. I'd want to animate dead some but I wouldn't be doing it all that much and the effect is permanent so I don't mind using two 3rd level slots for it. Also, I would be very reluctant to use deadly force in the first place so I'd want my magic focused on things that can confuse, manipulate, etc. instead of just harm. I'd use conjuration for DD spells on animals for x.p. but I'd be getting a fair chunk of x.p. by defeating (without killing) humans with levels in fighter and rogue.

A very smart raven which could speak English seems preferable to an animal companion in the modern world, unless maybe if you're WAY out in some rural area. The spying potential seems limitless. It's not that practical having a tiger or something like that in most of the places I would like to go. And having a bird that is smart and can talk... OMG. So fun.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'll second those who'd rather get druid as their first class level. Then level up with non-combat encounters to get to the good stuff. Wild Shape, A thousand faces, Timeless Body...


Druids are awesome, but wild-shaping is sort of useless against guns and tranquilizers.
Just use something with DR/magic from one of the wild shape feats. Or cast Heart of Earth for Stoneskin. Or Friendly Fire.
And how often do you get shot at anyway that this is a primary consideration?


A very smart raven which could speak English seems preferable to an animal companion in the modern world, unless maybe if you're WAY out in some rural area. The spying potential seems limitless. It's not that practical having a tiger or something like that in most of the places I would like to go. And having a bird that is smart and can talk... OMG. So fun.

Urban Companion (Cityscape WE) says hi. All the familiar benefits, only better. And i'd think most people would go for the riding dog, not the tiger. Unless they live in India maybe. :smallbiggrin:
You can also use Awaken to get more friendly talking animals.

[Hamste]

Nah. Elephants are where it's at. One Ray of Stupidity will drop one, so that's a virtually guaranteed win with one or more cr 7s.

But then you have to deal with explaining why/how you are sedating an endangered species. No one would question you killing a bunch of boars (well, beyond the questions required for you to have permission to hunt boars). Then again, if you get to a high enough level with the boars before trying you can just wave away any questions with enough magic.

[Dalebert]

Well heck--if we're going that far off-topic as to consider other classes, I'd honestly have to consider a witch then. They get a lot of the nice health-related spells like curing wounds or disease. Wow, Cure Disease would be really nice IRL! The unlimited use of certain hexes would sure be nice, including Animal Skin which I'd for sure take at 10th level. I'd not be interested really in shifting into anything for fighting purposes. I'd be avoiding fights for the most part and want to focus on stealth and subterfuge. I'd take the Disguise hex at 1st level, then Tongues, Flight, Slumber, Animal Skin, Ice Tomb. If I did get into a tussle, I'd want ways to debilitate my opponents without hurting them. I'd take the Shadow patron to diversify my spells considerably and help make up for the witch's crappy spell list compared to a wizard.

Shadow: 2nd—silent image, 4th—darkness, 6th—deeper darkness, 8th—shadow conjuration, 10th—shadow evocation, 12th—shadow walk, 14th—shadow conjuration (greater), 16th—shadow evocation (greater), 18th—shades.

I admit though that druid or cleric is very appealing for instant access to all spells on your list unlike wizards and witches, particularly in a mundane world where you'll never have the opportunity to expand your repertoire by finding new spells. Spell research is an option but it's very expensive and we've already discussed how the game's idea of money translates into the real world.

That raises some questions. If we're going on this flight of fancy about having access to a class in the mundane world, might we also have to presume access to some other things? For instance, what about spell components? Some of them aren't available in the mundane world.

[sleepyphoenixx]

...
I admit though that druid or cleric is very appealing for instant access to all spells on your list unlike wizards and witches, particularly in a mundane world where you'll never have the opportunity to expand your repertoire by finding new spells. Spell research is an option but it's very expensive and we've already discussed how the game's idea of money translates into the real world.

That raises some questions. If we're going on this flight of fancy about having access to a class in the mundane world, might we also have to presume access to some other things? For instance, what about spell components? Some of them aren't available in the mundane world.

Access to healing/Cure Disease/Neutralize Poison is a pretty big draw IRL. I'm not sure about spell research. True, you get (and can presumably max) spellcraft, but i think it's normally assumed that you have access to various tomes or libraries that don't exist in our world. Even if those are not necessary it would certainly be time consuming - time you could spend earning XP and crafting items! I'd definitely at least get Craft Wondrous Item, if not one or two more item creation feats.

Similarly i'd think that any spell components that aren't available here would have to be gotten from other planes, either by going there yourself or using Planar Binding/Ally to send an outsider with at-will Plane Shift on a fetch quest.

[Traab]

I would start working as an exterminator. Once rats and bee swarms stop being worthwhile exp, I would go for animal control. Capturing or killing various larger animals should help boost me up a few more levels. Finally, bounty hunter. At that point I figure I would be high level enough to make an easy fortune doing one of a gazillion different things a wizard is capable of. Hunting sounds nice, but you need to find a good location. I have yet to kill a single deer after a couple years of hunting. I have killed one pheasant, and been ambushed by a wolf (sorta, it was chasing a squirrel or something that ran up a tree right behind me, it took off as soon as I spun around) Anyways, one I have a solid financial base, I would look into grabbing real world power. I mean come on, im the only wizard in existence, that would make me very very powerful under the right conditions. Im not saying I would go full scale sauron or turn into a lich king, im just saying the potential is there to take charge. Maybe work on claiming some superstitious smaller nation so I could use my powers and the rest of the world would dismiss it as rumors from credulous peasants. Then go full scale Dr Doom and create my own latveria. Using random craftable magic items instead of high tech science to make my nation awesome. First rival nation to try and pull something gets its leader nailed by a scry and die attack.

[Dalebert]

Similarly i'd think that any spell components that aren't available here would have to be gotten from other planes, either by going there yourself or using Planar Binding/Ally to send an outsider with at-will Plane Shift on a fetch quest.

But if we're establishing, for the purposes of this flight of fancy, that these components don't exist in our mundane world, do those other planes exist? You're making a huge assumption here--that even though we've never ever encountered other planar creatures, some of which have the ability to travel the planes, they exist somewhere out there. I think that's a reach.

In other words, we're making an exception that certain things are possible all of a sudden, i.e. you can become a wizard and your spells will actually work. I imagine we have to establish just how rare magic is. Are we, in fact, the only wizard ever. Are we the only source of magic in the world? What else exists to facilitate us being wizards? Do we somehow have access to all the spell components we need? How much does crafting cost in this mundane world? Is it, in fact, based on gold value or translated into a more relevant currency? Can we even get the materials we need from a mundane world to make inherently magical items?

Lots of questions that affect choices.

[sleepyphoenixx]

But if we're establishing, for the purposes of this flight of fancy, that these components don't exist in our mundane world, do those other planes exist? You're making a huge assumption here--that even though we've never ever encountered other planar creatures, some of which have the ability to travel the planes, they exist somewhere out there. I think that's a reach.


It's in the OP.

[Illven]

well for this scenario, you can only gain a cohort from Earth. So only human, and whatever person you want I suppose. Unless you level and gain planar binding at which point you can cohort a succubus or whatever :smallamused:

Or a Celestial Nymph and get druidic casting. :smalltongue:

[Hamste]

Finding the hogs isn't that hard. They are a common pest in southern Saskatchewan designated as dangerous stray animals. Farmers generally report them making it easier to find areas where they are nearby with a website designated to keeping track of boar sightings. A quick google search suggest the hardest part is that it is illegal to hunt at night (at least in Saskatchewan, note it is not totally banned but it bans the use of all artificial light and night vision which is tantamount to banning hunting at night. As a wizard we would be able to get around it.) and the boars are most active then.

[Dalebert]

It's in the OP.

Excellent. In my defense, I'm pretty sure some of that was edited in response to issues raised in the thread.

I think it's probably well worthwhile to take Eschew Materials as a first level feat. Presumably we get two feats as we're all human. :) Better still, take False Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/false-focus).

[Forrestfire]

Whoa, false focus is great. Totally eliminates any need for diamond dust in my restoration-spamming free levels plan.

[Threadnaught]

Just cast diguise self and charm person and you can do exactly that.

Nah, looks like a crime.

I'd go to Vegas and clean up, not as a Magician, but in a low level Casino Heist, on the Casino floor, using Cheat to cheat and win a fortune on Roulette. Deadpan that the reason I won so much is "Because I'm a Wizard." and move on with my tasty and delicious xp and Monopoly money.

Eventually I'd level up and be able to cast higher level Spells, take on bigger jobs and then I'd use my Wizard powers to magically steal information regarding Emperor Win's location and identity. Then I'd hire him to be my Strategic Consultant.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Whoa, false focus is great. Totally eliminates any need for diamond dust in my restoration-spamming free levels plan.

Just craft a Thought Bottle. You want one anyway because you don't care about balance IRL. :smalltongue:

[Dalebert]

I'd definitely get into the market of providing real magic items to the extremely wealthy though I'd be cautious about what I'd let them have. I'd be very leery of letting them have things that could seriously shift the power balance. I'd probably want to stick to mostly expendables. I wouldn't want anyone else in the world but me to have access to something like a Hat of Disguise, even.


I'll second those who'd rather get druid as their first class level. Then level up with non-combat encounters to get to the good stuff. Wild Shape, A thousand faces, Timeless Body...

As a witch, I'd get unlimited shape-shifting at 10th level with Animal Skin. I'd get Disguise Self at 1st (though I'd probably make a Hat of Disguise asap so I could swap it for something else). When I'm starting to suffer from old age that Cure Disease won't fix, I'd Magic Jar into someone else, kill my old body, and Reincarnate it for a fresh start. Yes, that means two lost levels but I could always get those back and it would be well worth it for a fresh start in a young body.

[Forrestfire]

Since you really don't have to care about wbl or balance, wizard gets all of those things too.

[Dalebert]

I'm embarrassed to express such ignorance, but what is wbl?

The hexes don't really seem as appealing when you can make nearly endless magic items to replace those abilities. Simulacrum is where it gets really fun so I'd probably go ahead and go wizard for that reason.

[aethel27]

Find a way to get the eschew materials feat....and figure out what the necessary ingredients are to make the ink to write my spells in a spellbook.

WBL = wealth by level

[Venom3053000]

points into Craft Wordsmithing for money

as for levels I guess I join my family members when they hunt

[aethel27]

create a homunculus, proceed to create Tiny God dont forget to give it levels in Profession Hacking

[Venom3053000]

thinking about it abit more fishing might give xp

[Dalebert]

I'm in NH. A moose is CR 3 and 800 xp. Purely hypothetically, how much xp would you say the average cop is worth?

[aethel27]

Hmmm in pathfinder they would be a gunslinger if in the country.... in the city they would be just a sec.... a trench fighter http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/trench-fighter sooo I'd say that it depends on the equipment, type (swat, beat cop, narcotics cop, country sherrif, etc.) and number. Probably ranging from CR3-CR7 Mind you large numbers of them and if in teh cities (like say chicago) they might be military grade weaponry (woot cops got APC) so that would boost them up as well.

[aleucard]

What about the average drug-dealer and other connected individuals (read: mob, gangs, cartels, etc.), for those of us not interested in making every cop ever want our head on a pike?

Honestly, the biggest obstacle is finding the cash and isolated area to research spells in peace. Money has issues we've already discussed here, but finding somewhere isolated enough that the only time people would show up is if either you want them there or you're under suspicion would be somewhat difficult, especially since it'll take a while for you to get to a high enough level for safe long-distance travel and thus have to use more easily trackable methods.

[sleepyphoenixx]

What about the average drug-dealer and other connected individuals (read: mob, gangs, cartels, etc.), for those of us not interested in making every cop ever want our head on a pike?

Honestly, the biggest obstacle is finding the cash and isolated area to research spells in peace. Money has issues we've already discussed here, but finding somewhere isolated enough that the only time people would show up is if either you want them there or you're under suspicion would be somewhat difficult, especially since it'll take a while for you to get to a high enough level for safe long-distance travel and thus have to use more easily trackable methods.

Cash isn't that big a problem. Fabricate can be remarkably useful if you're a little creative with it, like extracting valuable material from trash or the earth itself (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6793). Get a recycling business as cover and use a Simulacrum to manage it once you can.
Or you could use it to create art and sell that, creating a reputation as an eccentric artist at the same time (which can be used as a cover for anything strange you might get up to and your loner tendencies).
You can shortcut hours or even days of work with Fabricate. Spend a day or two per month on it and use the rest of your time for research. Later on have Simulacra do the the work for you.
Or use divinations and skill boosters to solve a scientific problem. Patent the solution. Your money troubles should be over.
Charm Person, Suggestion and similar spells can be used to grease the wheels where necessary. Silent/Still spells are your friends.

Money can buy you all the space and solitude you want/need. You can make all the money you want in a fraction of the time and effort it takes someone without magic.
There's really no reason to go rob banks or drug dealers or something like that.

[aleucard]

Cash isn't that big a problem. Fabricate can be remarkably useful if you're a little creative with it, like extracting valuable material from trash or the earth itself (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6793). Get a recycling business as cover and use a Simulacrum to manage it once you can.
Or you could use it to create art and sell that, creating a reputation as an eccentric artist at the same time (which can be used as a cover for anything strange you might get up to and your loner tendencies).
You can shortcut hours or even days of work with Fabricate. Spend a day or two per month on it and use the rest of your time for research. Later on have Simulacra do the the work for you.
Or use divinations and skill boosters to solve a scientific problem. Patent the solution. Your money troubles should be over.
Charm Person, Suggestion and similar spells can be used to grease the wheels where necessary.

Money can buy you all the space and solitude you want/need. You can make all the money you want in a fraction of the time and effort it takes someone without magic.
There's really no reason to go rob banks or drug dealers or something like that.

We're assuming that we start at level 1-3, so we have several levels of time where the real money-makers simply aren't available. That's ignoring the fact that you also have to devote some cash to making sure that it all looks like magic's not involved. We need to either figure out a way to power-level to where we can cast Fabricate or find a money-generation method that doesn't need it.

Eccentric Artist sounds like an interesting idea, but the world's already silly with such people. How are you going to get that initial kick to get started?

The biggest problem with Charm Person and friends is that they are almost guaranteed to know they were messed with after it wears off, and nothing comes to mind that explicitly prevents that. Even then, most of these things have a Will save, and thus eventually someone is going to make theirs. What's your plan then?

[sleepyphoenixx]

We're assuming that we start at level 1-3, so we have several levels of time where the real money-makers simply aren't available. That's ignoring the fact that you also have to devote some cash to making sure that it all looks like magic's not involved. We need to either figure out a way to power-level to where we can cast Fabricate or find a money-generation method that doesn't need it.

Eccentric Artist sounds like an interesting idea, but the world's already silly with such people. How are you going to get that initial kick to get started?

The biggest problem with Charm Person and friends is that they are almost guaranteed to know they were messed with after it wears off, and nothing comes to mind that explicitly prevents that. Even then, most of these things have a Will save, and thus eventually someone is going to make theirs. What's your plan then?

You're not going to start with spell research at low levels. Getting some experience shouldn't be that hard, if you factor in non-combat encounters. Experience is granted by overcoming challenges, and we face those to one extent or another pretty regularly just by living.

Unlike other people you can use (subtle) magic to improve your chances of success. Skill boosters, ability boosts like Fox's Cunning and Eagle's Splendor, charming critics and potential buyers... you not only produce higher quality faster, you're also a massively superior salesman.

And people noticing charms and the like isn't that big a problem. Even succeeding on a save only lets them feel "a hostile force or a tingle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow)". As far as people are concerned magic doesn't exist. Everyone has moments where they ask themselves later "why did i do that?". All that charm does is let them "perceive your words and actions in the most favorable way". People are rather good at rationalizing their decisions to themselves.
Dominate is another matter of course, but you really don't need that for this.

[Rubik]

Leveling and money are rather non-issues.

Use divinations to game the rules at a casino or to win the lottery. If all else fails, prove that magic exists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge) (but use Disguise Self first, of course).

Take Precocious Apprentice (Ray of Stupidity) and Arcane Mastery at level 1, then go on a safari to Africa and find a rogue elephant. R.o.S. it into unconsciousness. You'll immediately hit level 3. Take Alter Self as a spell known, then find a mated pair of elephants. You'll have one casting of Alter Self and two castings of Ray of Stupidity, so you just took down a CR 9 challenge. Now you're level 5. Fill one slot with Alter Self and the rest with Ray of Stupidity. Find a small herd of five. Now you're level 7.

Continue this strategy until you're high enough level to acquire and cast Curse of Lycanthropy (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-divine--56/curse-of-lycanthropy--719/) and can afford to create a thought bottle (at level 13 -- or far lower, with a few tricks). Give yourself lycanthropy, store your XP total, then cure yourself. Do it again. And again. And again. And now the only barrier between you and a ridiculously high level is your number of spells per day.

Eventually, find a way to acquire a soul crystal of (or the ability to manifest) Fusion and Astral Seed. Shapechange into a black pudding and give yourself a paper cut. Go through a rebuilding quest to give one of your new bodies a new set of levels, then Fusion and Astral Seed. Now you're gestalt. Wash, rinse, and repeat.

[Tindragon]

I'd visit Texas, hit level 10 pretty damn fast using my starting 1st level spells of color spray and 12 gauge.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/science-nature/a-plague-of-pigs-in-texas-73769069/

Sell my services as the best exterminator, (being a focused conjurer with Abrubt Jaunt to hit the high branches)

Do I get to keep my current skill-set/feats? If so, I'mma sell lots of bacon at $4 lb

[Daishain]

As a mechanical engineer, and someone somewhat obsessed with building new things, given our expanded options, I would kick myself forevermore if I failed to pick the Artificer.

Short term goals:
-find some means of maximizing xp gain vs loss due to crafting, not really a fan of hunting, but I've got a lot of XP hungry things to make.
-eliminate the tedious portion of the crafting cycle via a steadily growing squadron of Dedicated Wrights. Either make them look like an adult human or something completely inanimate, I don't want to be accused of running a deformed child labor factory.
-Use said Wrights to generate a significant source of income. Start with simple hand made artistic type items. (ordinary items hand forged from wrought iron sell surprisingly well.)
-Try to use schema and everlasting wands for everything rather than standard wands and scrolls.

Long term goals (note, by this point keeping my abilities secret is both impossible and undesireable):
-Figure out how the warforged were made. Make a variant of them dedicated to science, art, and philosophy rather than war. Give them the means of making more of their kind and my blessing to do as they see fit. Ask some of my new "children" to assist me in my work if any are willing.
-Make a factory dedicated to creating a line of (smart but definitely nonsapient) constructs intended to take over manual labor jobs for humanity.
-Greatly expand personal lifetime to maximize how long I can work to benefit humanity and their new neighbors. Consider offering method to others, but chances are it wouldn't be worth the fallout
-Find means of slowing down human reproduction rate so that the other things don't cause more problems of their own. That or find means of shipping off excess (colonizing Mars for instance)
-Use magical constructions to assist in the construction of a wide variety of engineering marvels, including but not limited to: Earth to geosynchronous orbit elevator, ultra high density clean power sources, worldwide power and information distribution networks, and worldwide subterranean maglev train systems.
-Initiate the creation of a new plane of existence. Uses will vary

[Threadnaught]

I'd probably go Druid, level up a bit then turn into a Kaiju. And have one as an Animal Companion.


Then I'd visit Japan and challenge the citizens of Tokyo to a dance off. If I win, I get to star in the next Godzilla movie.

[Rubik]

I'd probably go Druid, level up a bit then turn into a Kaiju. And have one as an Animal Companion.


Then I'd visit Japan and challenge the citizens of Tokyo to a dance off. If I win, I get to star in the next Godzilla movie.Threadnaught the dreaded druid kaiju vs Japan in Dance Dance Revolution Rumble XVI: The Revenge of the Return of the Revenge of Godzilla?

[Skysaber]

Sounds like the first thing we'd all do is go after sufficient power to achieve whatever we consider to be a sufficient level of safety and comfort.

After that, though, things can get interesting.

Since the appearance of any magic items/constructs is generally up to the one creating them, I'd probably do silly things like construct a Shield Guardian that looks *identical* to the Terminator, sans flesh, then send it out shopping for groceries.

Teleporting naked next to some chick and claiming that she is Sara Connor would be a step too far in that direction, however.

Build an item of Flying that just happens to be an exact replica of the classic UFO. Land at some airport, send out more constructs built to look like aliens from Mars Attacks, have them all crowd into the closest restroom, drain approximately two gallons of some vicious, alchemical concoction that acts like flaming, radioactive waste out of themselves into the urinals, and all climb back into the saucer to fly away before anyone gets the wits to react. That sort of thing.

[AvatarVecna]

Are psionics and PrCs are available for this hypothetical challenge? And how comfortable is the RL "DM" with stretching RAI?

[Blackhawk748]

Sounds like the first thing we'd all do is go after sufficient power to achieve whatever we consider to be a sufficient level of safety and comfort.

After that, though, things can get interesting.

Since the appearance of any magic items/constructs is generally up to the one creating them, I'd probably do silly things like construct a Shield Guardian that looks *identical* to the Terminator, sans flesh, then send it out shopping for groceries.

Teleporting naked next to some chick and claiming that she is Sara Connor would be a step too far in that direction, however.

Build an item of Flying that just happens to be an exact replica of the classic UFO. Land at some airport, send out more constructs built to look like aliens from Mars Attacks, have them all crowd into the closest restroom, drain approximately two gallons of some vicious, alchemical concoction that acts like flaming, radioactive waste out of themselves into the urinals, and all climb back into the saucer to fly away before anyone gets the wits to react. That sort of thing.

Oh this would be fun.

Oddly enough id pick Sorcerer. Why? I like having my Toolbox. And hello Cheat, which may actually make me win the lottery. After that i go on a worldwide safari, and Ray of Stupidity my way through that.

[Rubik]

Oh this would be fun.

Oddly enough id pick Sorcerer. Why? I like having my Toolbox. And hello Cheat, which may actually make me win the lottery. After that i go on a worldwide safari, and Ray of Stupidity my way through that.Just go spell-point wizard. You'll make sorcerers look like chumps.

[edit] Oh, and my way means that, starting from level 1, you should be epic in somewhere between 1-3 days, depending on how level-ups work and if you can find that many elephants.

[Skysaber]

Alter Self to look like an alien. Fabricate a small but appropriate looking starship. Then find the nerdiest video game geek you can, land right next to him out in public where everyone can see, and proclaim, "Greetings Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan armada!"

Use a bunch of Suggestions and Illusions to make it all seem real as he fights off an imagined space fleet.

Edit: When returning him, I'd hand him a package, along with the statement, "We understand this is the traditional reward among your people."

When he'd open it, he'd find a shirt emblazoned with, "I fought off an alien armada and saved the Earth and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."

EDIT2: The tag in the back with washing instructions would be printed in hieroglyphics.

[Rubik]

I'd hive mind a bunch of my cloned bodies together and go exploring to see what's out there. I'd also cook up some epic spells to live in some self-created fanfics.

[...]

-Be a Druid
-Get a Swindlespitter companion
-Show the public my new species of living, breathing, dinosaur
-???
-Profit

[Rubik]

-Be a Druid
-Get a Swindlespitter companion
-Show the public my new species of living, breathing, dinosaur
-???
-ProfitYou'd probably have to import it from the Beastlands or something, whereas the arcane crowd can just PAO it from a teapot.

[...]

You'd probably have to import it from the Beastlands or something, whereas the arcane crowd can just PAO it from a teapot.

No actually. It just magically appears with magic and magicialness. Also known as lack of description on the origin of your animal companion.

[Rubik]

No actually. It just magically appears with magic and magicialness. Also known as lack of description on the origin of your animal companion.Your animal companion was probably a teapot, once.

[Emperor Moth]

I'd have trouble choosing between wizard and magus. Cleric is... interesting. I don't like playing them ingame, but if it were real, SURE.

I'd be quite happy being a real cleric with divine magic... right a lot of wrongs, heal a lot of sick and wounded, that kind of sappy crappy feelgoody stuff. You don't have to worry about the consequences of your powers so much when they aren't yours to begin with, God would simply just not let you use them if they were for wrongdoing.

[Rubik]

I'd have trouble choosing between wizard and magus. Cleric is... interesting. I don't like playing them ingame, but if it were real, SURE.

I'd be quite happy being a real cleric with divine magic... right a lot of wrongs, heal a lot of sick and wounded, that kind of sappy crappy feelgoody stuff. You don't have to worry about the consequences of your powers so much when they aren't yours to begin with, God would simply just not let you use them if they were for wrongdoing.Meh. A quick Mindrape and you couldn't even think about doing bad things.

[Emperor Moth]

Meh. A quick Mindrape and you couldn't even think about doing bad things.Well, that's why you're a wisdom caster. Good luck landing that spell.

[Hyena]

If I became a caster, a lot of people in high places would die a horrible death on day one. Which is why I shouldn't ever become a spellcaster.

[Skysaber]

If I became a caster, a lot of people in high places would die a horrible death on day one. Which is why I shouldn't ever become a spellcaster.

You see, I would just use that "you can invent your own version" clause in Bestow Curse to invent the Curse of Truth, so that those subject to it could never lie again. Ever. They couldn't even intentionally mislead, like speaking partial truths for the purpose of deception. And then I'd apply it to virtually all politicians, media stars, police, etc. Anyone with the public trust.

Heck, I'd apply it to the candidates during the election, then let the chips fall where they may.

Many of them would find their fates worse than if I'd killed them.

[AnonymousPepper]

Assuming a 1:1 GP/$ ratio for now, seems like the best option is to go Archivist for access to every divine spell in the game. Just use the spell research rules in the DMG to gain access to any spell I want given a day and some money.

Level up by hunting for a while, then start using things like the Cure spells and Remove Disease and the like to level up and make money when that doesn't work. Bonus of leveling up by hunting early on - you can reach a point where you no longer need to worry about things like curious governments before you're too strong to get them to back off.

Once I can start making money through various moneymaking spells, I go Dweomerkeeper for Supernatural Spell - Wish or Miracle to avoid costly material components of things - qualifying via having Alternate Source Spell, of course.

The easiest way is probably via divinations + the stock market, but various conjuration spells work magnificently too. The former works especially well though because it also grants XP probably.

Also, because my general goal in life is to help and to teach, I appeal to Mystra and gain the Magister and Chosen of Mystra templates, thereby gaining me XP for teaching, and automatically learn every spell in existence. Since I am a NG caster, Mystra very much likes me - recall that while she's officially LN by deific law, she's personally NG to the core. I'm also definitely taking Initiate of Mystra and being very much a Mystra person.

Now, since Magister allows me to gain XP indefinitely by teaching, and that's what I'm doing, some of my Epic levels are going to be in a circle magic class - probably Halruuan Elder since it's not female-limited (being a man mself), but who knows, Mystra might let me into Hathran too.

I also use that money to use the A&EG feat-granting items (of course, I naturally pick up Craft Wondrous for this), thereby granting myself just about every feat I could ever want or need.

Once I have everything I need, I just walk around - and teleport around - with total immunity to everything, as high-level casters are wont to do, and turn the world into a friggin' utopia, albeit not by assuming direct power. Furthermore, I turn myself into a Deathless so that I become immortal unless I choose otherwise, so that I can continue living and therefore continue helping the world forever. Also, contingent Revivifies are a thing too, so violent deaths just don't faze me.

Mass Heal spells for everyone! Remove Disease spells for everyone! Create Food and Water (or better yet, Heroes' Feast) traps for everyone! Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansions for everyone!

And of course, Nailed to the Sky for NASA!

[Skysaber]

Assuming a 1:1 GP/$ ratio for now, seems like the best option is to go Archivist for access to every divine spell in the game.
Also, because my general goal in life is to help and to teach, I appeal to Mystra and gain the Magister and Chosen of Mystra templates,

Assuming everything goes exactly the way you wanted, that's fine. But you know what they say about assumptions.

Personally, I am uncomfortably recalling certain rules from Spelljammer that say that even Major Divine beings are only so on two or three worlds. They get a handful more where they are minor, and other than that, bupkiss. Clerics and so on that are calling on their patron for power and that patron being out of range are a major theme for spelljammer. Don't know the current rules, but in the absence of an update they generally go with "whatever we haven't corrected still applies".

Why do you think they supply a new pantheon with every campaign book?

So I'd personally be very hesitant to bind myself so thoroughly to a patron who is bound so thoroughly elsewhere.

Just saying.

[Threadnaught]

[edit] Oh, and my way means that, starting from level 1, you should be epic in somewhere between 1-3 days, depending on how level-ups work and if you can find that many elephants.

Just find and fight some poachers. They kill enough Elephants to be worth even more xp. :smallamused:

[Aharon]

Continue this strategy until you're high enough level to acquire and cast Curse of Lycanthropy and can afford to create a thought bottle (at level 13 -- or far lower, with a few tricks). Give yourself lycanthropy, store your XP total, then cure yourself. Do it again. And again. And again. And now the only barrier between you and a ridiculously high level is your number of spells per day.

Eventually, find a way to acquire a soul crystal of (or the ability to manifest) Fusion and Astral Seed. Shapechange into a black pudding and give yourself a paper cut. Go through a rebuilding quest to give one of your new bodies a new set of levels, then Fusion and Astral Seed. Now you're gestalt. Wash, rinse, and repeat.


Meh. A quick Mindrape and you couldn't even think about doing bad things.

Your willingness to consider self-modification to such levels is astounding. In game, it's one thing, but I somehow doubt that I would be willing to Shapechange into non-humanoid forms or modify my thoughts in reality. I would likely stick to the small-time stuff and take Wedded To History => Endless. After a few decades, maybe I would be confident enough to try the more spectacular things (Unless my hand was forced, of course. Luckily, I don't live in some conflict-ridden region where situations in which I need magic to survive would come up).

[Hamste]

Assuming everything goes exactly the way you wanted, that's fine. But you know what they say about assumptions.

No, I don't what is it that you assumed I knew about assumptions?

[Rubik]

Well, that's why you're a wisdom caster. Good luck landing that spell.Notice I said "you," not "me." :smallwink:


If I became a caster, a lot of people in high places would die a horrible death on day one.I'd have to say that the same would apply to me. Ever heard of the blood diamond trade? How about the drug cartels down in Central America?

Some people need taken out. It's unfortunate, but true.

With politicians, however, I agree with Skysaber.


You see, I would just use that "you can invent your own version" clause in Bestow Curse to invent the Curse of Truth, so that those subject to it could never lie again. Ever. They couldn't even intentionally mislead, like speaking partial truths for the purpose of deception. And then I'd apply it to virtually all politicians, media stars, police, etc. Anyone with the public trust.

Heck, I'd apply it to the candidates during the election, then let the chips fall where they may.

Many of them would find their fates worse than if I'd killed them.I like the cut of your jib.


Assuming a 1:1 GP/$ ratio for now, seems like the best option is to go Archivist for access to every divine spell in the game. Just use the spell research rules in the DMG to gain access to any spell I want given a day and some money.There are plenty of ways to get new spells. Once I got to decently high levels, I'd probably rebuild into psion and use the various tricks to gain every arcane spell, every divine spell, and every psionic power in existence.

It's not even that difficult, honestly.

Of course, it helps that I can skyrocket through the levels so fast. If nothing else, I'll just add on 20 more levels and worry about the early levels later.


Level up by hunting for a while, then start using things like the Cure spells and Remove Disease and the like to level up and make money when that doesn't work. Bonus of leveling up by hunting early on - you can reach a point where you no longer need to worry about things like curious governments before you're too strong to get them to back off.

Once I can start making money through various moneymaking spells, I go Dweomerkeeper for Supernatural Spell - Wish or Miracle to avoid costly material components of things - qualifying via having Alternate Source Spell, of course.Supernatural Spell is nice, especially when it knocks the various components off, which I don't believe is standard for a Supernatural Ability. Since I'm going psion, I'd go with the Magic Mantle and the Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) feat, then nab the metamind's Font of Power capstone and the Supernatural Transformation (Font of Power) feat. Three levels of cleric and the Initiate of Mystra feat, after that. That way I never have to worry about most things magic is prone to, such as dispelling, attacks of opportunity, and AMFs/dead magic areas.


The easiest way is probably via divinations + the stock market, but various conjuration spells work magnificently too. The former works especially well though because it also grants XP probably.A single lottery jackpot would be sufficient for me, especially with my ability to create virtually anything with magic and magic crafting cost reducers.


Also, because my general goal in life is to help and to teach, I appeal to Mystra and gain the Magister and Chosen of Mystra templates, thereby gaining me XP for teaching, and automatically learn every spell in existence. Since I am a NG caster, Mystra very much likes me - recall that while she's officially LN by deific law, she's personally NG to the core. I'm also definitely taking Initiate of Mystra and being very much a Mystra person.

Now, since Magister allows me to gain XP indefinitely by teaching, and that's what I'm doing, some of my Epic levels are going to be in a circle magic class - probably Halruuan Elder since it's not female-limited (being a man mself), but who knows, Mystra might let me into Hathran too.

I also use that money to use the A&EG feat-granting items (of course, I naturally pick up Craft Wondrous for this), thereby granting myself just about every feat I could ever want or need.

Once I have everything I need, I just walk around - and teleport around - with total immunity to everything, as high-level casters are wont to do, and turn the world into a friggin' utopia, albeit not by assuming direct power. Furthermore, I turn myself into a Deathless so that I become immortal unless I choose otherwise, so that I can continue living and therefore continue helping the world forever. Also, contingent Revivifies are a thing too, so violent deaths just don't faze me.

Mass Heal spells for everyone! Remove Disease spells for everyone! Create Food and Water (or better yet, Heroes' Feast) traps for everyone! Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansions for everyone!

And of course, Nailed to the Sky for NASA!While Mystra is great, as mentioned, I wouldn't lean too heavily on her. Depending too much on an outside agency is bound to lead to disappointment some day. Also, I'd use Supernatural Wishes to convert oxygen molecules into magic traps that convert oxygen molecules into magic traps that convert oxygen molecules into magic traps etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc into magic traps of both Regenerate and Heal, with a smaller side order of Heroes' Feast, much higher mental stats (especially Wisdom), and the minimalization of fertility for humans via Bestow Curse, which reduces the number of children per couple to one (because overcrowding is a definite thing). The fertility block can be cured later, when the population growth is under control and humanity in general has shaped up a bit.


Just find and fight some poachers. They kill enough Elephants to be worth even more xp. :smallamused:Oh, they'll get theirs, before long. The elephants would have a couple of bad days, but the poachers would have a lot of very bad years in prison after that.


Your willingness to consider self-modification to such levels is astounding. In game, it's one thing, but I somehow doubt that I would be willing to Shapechange into non-humanoid forms or modify my thoughts in reality. I would likely stick to the small-time stuff and take Wedded To History => Endless. After a few decades, maybe I would be confident enough to try the more spectacular things (Unless my hand was forced, of course. Luckily, I don't live in some conflict-ridden region where situations in which I need magic to survive would come up).Humans are prone to abuses of power and letting it go to our heads. (See the Stanford Prison Experiment as an example.) I'd be making lots of physical modifications, but my main big mental modifications -- other than boosting my mental stats and skills -- would be to ensure that I never became power hungry or abusive, that I would never see other people (note: not just humans) as below me or as insignificant, that I would never succumb to ennui or boredom, that I wouldn't have to bother with mental illness such as depression or psychosis, and that nothing else could alter me without my express (and unforced) consent.

Mindrape can ensure pretty much all of that, but it needs to be carefully controlled, which is entirely possible to do safely.

[DaOldeWolf]

1.Go summoner.
2.Have it deal with encounters at low level
3.Enter courses to work on my charisma
4. Amass material components for an army from summoning spells as i gain levels.
5. Spell focus + Augment summoning
6. Create a studio and start creating cheap b movies with animal themes.
7. Start making quality films with higher spell slots.
8. Star in a movie with eidolon as double
9. Become a star
10. Become part of some scandal.
11.....???

[cosmicAstrogazr]

Netherese Arcanist. (If nothing before 3.0 is allowed, then Pathfinder Arcanist. But Netherese Arcanist solves so many problems, like spellbooks, dice caps, spellbooks, spell level caps...)

Then I level grind, and do ALL THE SCIENCE to figure out how the flippin' heck I can do magic????? And can I teach anyone else to do it????? Then... IDK, I want to say I would use my powers for good, but I've met myself; I'd probably turn into a dragon, and build myself a lair on some remote mountaintop.

Or, going with the Netherese Arcanist angle, have a flying mountain fortress from which I rule the world largely benevolently. But since that actually sounds too much like work, I'd probably be a dragon, and fly around eating *******s and building my hoard.

[Dalebert]

Merciful Spell is a nice feat to take since I'd hate to accidentally kill someone with a violent spell. Then I could use evocations more freely. Fireball bad guys. Tie them up for the police to find. Innocent people caught in the AoE eventually recover fine.

[Blackhawk748]

I'd probably turn into a dragon, and build myself a lair on some remote mountaintop.

Yup, totally would do this.

As to the Spell Point wizard, screw that i just realized i could probably go StP Euradite. What the Sorcerer could have been.

[Rubik]

Netherese Arcanist. (If nothing before 3.0 is allowed, then Pathfinder Arcanist. But Netherese Arcanist solves so many problems, like spellbooks, dice caps, spellbooks, spell level caps...)

Then I level grind, and do ALL THE SCIENCE to figure out how the flippin' heck I can do magic????? And can I teach anyone else to do it????? Then... IDK, I want to say I would use my powers for good, but I've met myself; I'd probably turn into a dragon, and build myself a lair on some remote mountaintop.

Or, going with the Netherese Arcanist angle, have a flying mountain fortress from which I rule the world largely benevolently. But since that actually sounds too much like work, I'd probably be a dragon, and fly around eating *******s and building my hoard.There's really very little of worth that Netherese arcanist gives you that a decent amount of Spellcraft or mitigation optimization doesn't. And both of those are extremely easy.

[Amechra]

I'd go Bard (3.5 Bard, actually), with the Bardic Sage and Bardic Knack ACFs.

Bam. Instant proficiency in all fields of human endeavour.

OK, so, sure, it's 1 rank. But it's one rank in everything.

[Krobar]

Whatever. So long as I can eventually cast Flash Frost/Fell Drain Fimbulwinter.

[Blackhawk748]

Whatever. So long as I can eventually cast Flash Frost/Fell Drain Fimbulwinter.

Uh..... What do you need that for?

[Rubik]

Whatever. So long as I can eventually cast Flash Frost/Fell Drain Fimbulwinter.Uh..... What do you need that for?He's dreaming of a wight Christmas?

[Blackhawk748]

He's dreaming of a wight Christmas?

Ah crap, excuse me while i summon a positive energy elemental, or a couple...........hundred.

[Rubik]

Ah crap, excuse me while i summon a positive energy elemental, or a couple...........hundred.If I knew it was coming, I'd just create a trap that does what I suggested earlier with the heal traps, but I'd make them Death Ward traps, instead.

[cosmicAstrogazr]

There's really very little of worth that Netherese arcanist gives you that a decent amount of Spellcraft or mitigation optimization doesn't. And both of those are extremely easy.

...I guess you're right. :smalltongue: And there's always StP erudite if you need to be truly disgusting.

[Rubik]

...I guess you're right. :smalltongue: And there's always StP erudite if you need to be truly disgusting.Or a different type of full manifester with a StP erudite companion.

Psychic Chirurgery is a wonderful thing.

[aleucard]

You know, I have a thought. Which character options can you think of that would be among the absolute worst ideas for anyone to take ever in real life? Thrallherd comes to mind, even if you spend a significant amount of time trying to make it stealthy. This sort of thing just does not look good for someone in the modern world.

EDIT: Preferably, options that are among the better ones in a 3.5/PF game. Just gimping yourself is too easy.

[Rubik]

You know, I have a thought. Which character options can you think of that would be among the absolute worst ideas for anyone to take ever in real life? Thrallherd comes to mind, even if you spend a significant amount of time trying to make it stealthy. This sort of thing just does not look good for someone in the modern world.

EDIT: Preferably, options that are among the better ones in a 3.5/PF game. Just gimping yourself is too easy.Psionic sandwich? With all the starving children in third world countries...

[sleepyphoenixx]

You know, I have a thought. Which character options can you think of that would be among the absolute worst ideas for anyone to take ever in real life? Thrallherd comes to mind, even if you spend a significant amount of time trying to make it stealthy. This sort of thing just does not look good for someone in the modern world.

EDIT: Preferably, options that are among the better ones in a 3.5/PF game. Just gimping yourself is too easy.

Eh, there's plenty of cults in the modern world. Just dress it up in religion and don't obviously abuse your thralls and nobody will do anything about it. Sure, "Cult Leader" isn't exactly a respectable profession but it's also not illegal. And why would you care when you have potentially hundreds of devoted thralls in addition to subtle mind control powers?
"He's controlling them with his psychic powers" is hardly a conclusion anyone credible would reach.

As for bad ideas in real life, i'd have to go with Swordsage. Especially the flashier disciplines. There's very little call to actually use that skillset in most western countries, and if you do it anyway you'll almost certainly get the kind of interest you don't want.

Or the classes that change your type. Fleshwarper, Dread Necro, Renegade Mastermaker, Green Star Adept, Walker in the Wastes and a whole bunch of others.
Seriously, why would anyone want to be undead in real life? Or a construct?

[Rubik]

Or the classes that change your type. Fleshwarper, Dread Necro, Renegade Mastermaker, Green Star Adept, Walker in the Wastes and a whole bunch of others.
Seriously, why would anyone want to be undead in real life? Or a construct?Well, illusion and shapechanging magics are a thing. Plus, you could be like Lieutenant Data from Star Trek TNG and just have funny looking eyes and skin but are still recognizable as a potential human.

[Skysaber]

Well, illusion and shapechanging magics are a thing. Plus, you could be like Lieutenant Data from Star Trek TNG and just have funny looking eyes and skin but are still recognizable as a potential human.

I think a part of what he's referencing can be found in this old Shakespeare quote, "There's no profit had where there's no pleasure taken." In other words, if you aren't enjoying it, why do it?

And the whole attitude of "Fluff can be ignored because it doesn't matter" experiences a sudden, drastic change if this is not going to be a bunch of lines written on a character sheet. Because in RL, things that are classically true of undead and constructs massively constricts your lifestyle.

You've got no pleasure center, for one. All of those angsty stories about being unable to enjoy food or feel the breeze on your skin, for another. Cyberpunk genres are filled with "almost, but not quite, human sensation and I spend all of my time upset about the flaws" stories that might become your life.

It's just not worth the risk.

And it might not be fixed by things like polymorph or shapechange, as every person I know of plays those as "Sure, I've got a different skin on, but I'm still me inside" - and that could work against you if the "me" inside has fouled up his thinking processes and is unable to experience real pleasure/pain/sensation/joy/happiness/etc.

I don't want to dive into living the Pinocchio syndrome, spending all of my days wishing I was a real boy.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Skysaber pretty much nailed it (though i don't know Shakespeare well enough to quote it :smalltongue:).

I generally like the idea of shapeshifting, but i find the thought of willingly turning yourself, your base form, into a walking corpse or something similar unbelievably creepy.
Fleshwarper and Alienist have similar issues - your mind is the most integral part of what makes you "you", and messing with Far Realm stuff and similar things is basically a form of suicide to my understanding, with the difference that you leave something wrong behind that uses your body as a meatsuit.

It's one thing to explore something like that in a game - not every character is a self insert/player avatar after all. It can certainly be interesting. But genuinely wanting to do that to yourself? :smalleek:

[Rubik]

Skysaber pretty much nailed it (though i don't know Shakespeare well enough to quote it :smalltongue:).

I generally like the idea of shapeshifting, but i find the thought of willingly turning yourself, your base form, into a walking corpse or something similar unbelievably creepy.
Fleshwarper and Alienist have similar issues - your mind is the most integral part of what makes you "you", and messing with Far Realm stuff and similar things is basically a form of suicide to my understanding, with the difference that you leave something wrong behind that uses your body as a meatsuit.

It's one thing to explore something like that in a game - not every character is a self insert/player avatar after all. It can certainly be interesting. But genuinely wanting to do that to yourself? :smalleek:Very true. If you really want to try life as a construct or undead, I suppose Shapechange is your friend.

[Krobar]

Whatever. So long as I can eventually cast Flash Frost/Fell Drain Fimbulwinter.


Uh..... What do you need that for?

Is this a trick question?

[Irk]

I would try to build towards this XP farm I came up with a while ago. I think it can be achieved as soon as level 3 i s h.


The Elation/Distill Joy combo is a fairly well known method of collecting experience, though it only provides 2 XP for every casting. Sacrifice is pretty good, as it can grant 3 XP with a DC of 1, yet takes the same time as the other combo (which can have multiple instances going on at once, admittedly). However, Sacrifice can also go up to 3 x DC XP, so it can be potentially more cost effective.

I don't see nearly as much soul collection or Liquid Pain collection, despite the fact that liquid pain costs just as much as ambrosia but is worth 3 XP. It is possible that a good alignment is desired, but I find that doubtful, considering the frequent use of the Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain.
Soul collecting is just difficult, but has the greatest yield if performed in mass (10 XP per soul).

The sacrifice option has several interesting rewards offered, but the most tantalizing is a free Wish spell, which can only happen once for an individual. It is possible you could get the same effect from some outsider and have to contend with a lower DC, but I'll just stick with this.

The DC for a Wish is 50. Guidance of the Avatar is +20, Divine Insight is +15. Skill Focus is +3. Maxing out knowledge religion at level 1 when it's a cross-class skill will net you that last +2. This gives you +40. add in Improvisation or a Marshal helper, and you'll have the +50. Sacrifice someone, and you'll get your Wish.
This Wish is used to create a magic item that is normally nigh-impossible to acquire without your DM doing something: a diabolical engine/Demonic Device. From BoVD, these are all fairly potent, but one really stands out: the Pain Pit. The Paint Pit is essentially a ready made XP farm that allows you to harvest liquid pain from five individuals contemporaneously, after which they are killed.
With Persist Spell and a metamagic rod of maximize, you can summon five creatures off of the Summon Monster I list that last for a day. Extend it too, just in case. Upon summoning these wolves, impale them all with thinaun weapons and toss them into the Pain Pit. By the next day, you will have 15 XP worth of Liquid Pain and 50 XP worth of souls. However, that's not quite good enough. Considering Liquid Pain is a very much sought after drug, it can likely be sold with great success, though only at half price, because that's how it works. Really, you should be able to sell it for a bit more than full, but that's up to the DM. using the price of 100 GP/dose, you can make 500 GP, and purchase two more souls in receptacles and keep 100 GP. The entire process nets you 70 XP and 100 GP. The next day, you can get 80 XP, bringing it up to 150 XP every 2 days. To automate it, include a spell clock with a maximized Summon Monster III in it, targeted into a container above the pit. Maybe set up a kind of dunk tank thing to drop them in. Some Homunculi can be responsible for stabbing/removing the thinaun weapons. In addition to the Liquid Pain/Soul factory, I recommend performing a single sacrifice every day, all to get dark craft XP. Get an eternal wand of Guidance of the Avatar, an eternal wand of Divine Insight, and put some ranks in Knowledge (Religion) or get an eternal wand of Inspiration. This nets you 150 XP per sacrifice. Just find a hamlet and kidnap children from there, childrens' eyes can be used as a spell component give you a 20% chance of doubling the duration of spells. You hit two birds with one stone! Anyway, over two days you make 450 XP. Over a year, that's 82,120 XP per year. That's enough to make 10 200,000 GP items. Legendary Artisan increases that to 13. According to the Complete Cost Reduction Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274.0), GP cost can be reduced to about 3%, so that's not an issue, and Dedicated Wrights can do the rest.

Might be worse than the thought bottle, it would take quite a while, and I'd have to hide it from PETA, so I might just hangout in Antarctica with Endure Elements until I could pretend that the world was a huge RISK board and begin my domination. I could work as a Doctor (Preserve Organ FTW) until I had enough cash, or just use one of the other get rich quick schemes from this thread.

As a side note, anyone a fan of RISK? Is there a subforum with any threads devoted to it? It's my new favorite time-waster. By which I mean practice.

EDIT: Did not realize I recommended kidnapping children, sacrificing them to a dark god and harvesting their eyeballs. Maybe not the most socially conducive practice, but I think it's still unlikely anyone will notice, right?

[Skysaber]

Sigh. And now we start getting posts that make Hitler look sane and rational.

Obviously, my idea of harmless fun is different from some other people's, I collect prank spells so I know just what to use if I should ever want to Sovereign Glue a congresscritter to its toilet seat. But I shy away from things that would make most other people want to begin epic quests to eradicate me, should all of us appear on the same world.

I just find very few laughs in indulging in scene of epic horror so obscene as to defy rational explanation.

[Irk]

I just find very few laughs in indulging in scene of epic horror so obscene as to defy rational explanation.
I take it you don't like RISK?

I thought my idea was humorous (albeit in a slightly twisted way), but there are plenty of other ways to use this powers, many of them better than pranks or the like.

I'd actually probably use magic to memorize a large number of scientific texts in order to fulfill my hope of becoming an impressively competent Aerospace Engineer. Maybe also compile some sort of research database with Amanuensis, never having to worry about transferring written information between mediums would be nice. In addition, you could construct some crazy stuff with Telekinetic abilities. Building stuff in space wouldn't be nearly as difficult. Also, lots of options for the advancement of Materials Science with 3.X magic, which is a particularly big deal IMO, if these powers actually became available. As I mentioned above, eternal wands of Preserve Organ could potentially become a mass-produced item, which would really help out in the medical field. Advance to a sufficiently high level, and Mass Heal could revoltuionize the medical industry.

However, this still lveas the problem of acquiring XP without killing. i'd have to go with solving issues in small communities, for instance using repeated applications of Remove Disease to end an epidemic, or perhaps do some terraforming to make way for a new road. You could help rescue people from other environmental hazards, like collapsed buildings or floods. You could stop problems like Fukushima,a nd even end starvation with Create Food and Water.

There are so many ways to improve life, advance science, and help people with 3.X magic that it's probably not as fun to consider them, and more interesting to look at what some bizarre, possibly dark, options could be. If I had 3.X magic, I would wield cosmic power that would allow me to initiate some sort of Golden Age that would rival any other period of prosperity.

But what if I don't want to save the world, what if I want to see what happens if I turn the Moon into a meatball?

[YossarianLives]

I would have to resist the urge to run down a busy street naked (maybe I'd even be invisible) while casting various spells on passersby and laughing my head off.

[Rubik]

...I'd have to hide it from PETA...Nah. PETA "liberates" animals so they can immediately put them to death.

They find pet ownership abhorrent but have no qualms about killing them.


I would have to resist the urge to run down a busy street naked (maybe I'd even be invisible) while casting various spells on passersby and laughing my head off.Who needs clothing when you're an immortal god-thing?

[Dalebert]

Right about now I'm thinking of the fun I could have making a haunted house if I had some constructs that could look like scary clowns!

Some of the ideas people have for making money crack me up. Money would be such a non-issue if you were the one true miracle worker in the world. Do a little research and figure out which super-rich (as in billionaires--don't waste your time on millionaires) have loved ones with debilitating or deadly illnesses. Offer to cure them for billions. Swear them to secrecy. Insist you'll destroy them (that doesn't necessarily mean "kill" mind you, and you can also bluff them) if they betray you. Not that it matters. You'll never reveal your true identity to anyone. No one will find you ever. You will find them and do business on your own terms.

Also, find super rich who are elderly and offer to reincarnate them. How much is it worth to you? Half of your accumulated wealth? What good is it when you're dead? And half of super-rich is still super-rich. It takes a little finagling of identities, all easily done with real magic--infiltrating secure areas, detecting thoughts to get passwords, etc. But basically you could have billions of dollars in no time owned by various accounts in the names of various identities that you assume at your convenience with disguise self, probably a Hat of Disguise for convenience. All the money you need to have a vast array of magic items and bases of operations all over the world that you teleport to as needed.

Anything short of that is a horrible waste of time. I've heard it said that it's not worth Bill Gates' time to bend over and pick up a $100 dollar bill. He makes millions every minute of his existence. Your time as the only real wizard in the world would be worth more than his.

[aleucard]

Nah. PETA "liberates" animals so they can immediately put them to death.

They find pet ownership abhorrent but have no qualms about killing them.

Who needs clothing when you're an immortal god-thing?

A variant of Permanent Image that you can alter at will (spell research is your buddy) plus Shadowcraft Mage so that you can maintain at least the reflection of decency if someone makes their save? SCM would be amazingly useful any time when your need to be physically present is not a detriment, anyway.

[Bad Wolf]

Optimization always ignores petty things like 'morality', or 'the suffering of dozens of innocent children'.

But then again, I'd use a Gate spell to drop the Tarrasque in the middle of Tokyo.

[aleucard]

Optimization always ignores petty things like 'morality', or 'the suffering of dozens of innocent children'.

But then again, I'd use a Gate spell to drop the Tarrasque in the middle of Tokyo.

Screw that. How about recreating Sodom and Gomorrah's razing at some random Cartel holdouts, only without the 'turn all viewers to salt' aspect? You get your mass destruction jollies, AND you do so in a way that leaves the world better than you found it. Win win! :smallbiggrin:

[Forrestfire]

Hopefully after getting a means of Supernatural Wish to create Adamantine Colossi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vU7XqToZso)?

EDIT: You know, it occurs to me... If the cosmology exists, I'd be severely worried that eventually something's going to spill over. Most likely, I'd use the Transference trick and grab the Demigod epic destiny, for the divine ranks. It says you become a minor True Deity, and you're said to be a demigod, so what matters is that you can make Simulacra of yourself and use them to proxy your divine rank higher, since the greatest threat to the planet is probably a hostile god trying to meddle with it. Having a higher divine rank than them will help put a stop to that.

Personally, if I managed that, I'd get a way to get Schism permanently up, and then Miracle myself the ability to ignore my own divinity (since it probably wouldn't be very fun or keep me very sane). The schism brain can keep tabs on the future and warn me if needed, and I can keep living my life as a "human" (as much as I feel like, anyway).

[aleucard]

Hopefully after getting a means of Supernatural Wish to create Adamantine Colossi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vU7XqToZso)?

You could theoretically SCM a high-level illusion for the same effect without having to jump through that many hoops. You'd only really need the high-level aspect to make sure it sustains directed fire thanks to Hardness and HP, anyway (can you give a Construct Fast Healing/Regeneration, and can you replicate that with SCM?). The fact that you could literally fill a place with them and other merry monstrosities by this method if you want to go for the Lovecraftian vibe or just bury whichever place you don't like in bodies.

Can you SCM a virus or similar thing (nanites, maybe?), as long as you know how they work? :smallbiggrin:

[Bad Wolf]

Screw that. How about recreating Sodom and Gomorrah's razing at some random Cartel holdouts, only without the 'turn all viewers to salt' aspect? You get your mass destruction jollies, AND you do so in a way that leaves the world better than you found it. Win win! :smallbiggrin:

That makes me think of something else. How ethical is it to buff up a Dire Ape to Colossal size and let it fight the Tarrasque in the middle of New York?

[Eldest]

You know, I have a thought. Which character options can you think of that would be among the absolute worst ideas for anyone to take ever in real life? Thrallherd comes to mind, even if you spend a significant amount of time trying to make it stealthy. This sort of thing just does not look good for someone in the modern world.

EDIT: Preferably, options that are among the better ones in a 3.5/PF game. Just gimping yourself is too easy.

What's wrong with thrallherd? I'd go for it, and try to leave the thralls as much of their own mind as I could, as well as independence.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Screw that. How about recreating Sodom and Gomorrah's razing at some random Cartel holdouts, only without the 'turn all viewers to salt' aspect? You get your mass destruction jollies, AND you do so in a way that leaves the world better than you found it. Win win! :smallbiggrin:

Flesh to Salt is a thing, if you want to go that way. Though i'd personally go for Invisibility & Call Lightning, because smiting criminals with lightning bolts is likely to leave a pretty big impression.

[Dalebert]

What about the average drug-dealer and other connected individuals (read: mob, gangs, cartels, etc.), for those of us not interested in making every cop ever want our head on a pike?

I said "hypothetically"! :smallcool: At most, I would just really mess with certain police officers, the ones who severely abuse their position, and then set them up to get fired or even arrested. Certain politicians come to mind as well. It's not like anyone would ever be able to track anything back to me.

There don't seem to be too many folks as concerned as I am about actually killing people. Am I the only one who would prioritize the Merciful Spell feat and slap it on pretty much every spell I prepare? Short of killing, how far would you have to go to get xp for someone? Heck, you could go to riot zones and sling merciful fireballs into the crowds and rack up some insane xp while disrupting violence and property destruction. Of course there are more subtle things you can use than fireballs.

Even in the most extreme cases... if I REALLY hated someone and their offenses were obvious and deeply egregious, I think the worst I could bring myself to do is Baleful Polymorph them into a cat (of the opposite gender) and drop them off at a pet adoption center. Good luck doing any more harm. No one else in the world has Dispel Magic.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There don't seem to be too many folks as concerned as I am about actually killing people. Am I the only one who would prioritize the Merciful Spell feat and slap it on pretty much every spell I prepare? Short of killing, how far would you have to go to get xp for someone? Heck, you could go to riot zones and sling merciful fireballs into the crowds and rack up some insane xp while disrupting violence and property destruction. Of course there are more subtle things you can use than fireballs.

Even in the most extreme cases... if I REALLY hated someone and their offenses were obvious and deeply egregious, I think the worst I could bring myself to do is Baleful Polymorph them into a cat (of the opposite gender) and drop them off at a pet adoption center. Good luck doing any more harm. No one else in the world has Dispel Magic.

My strategy for not killing people pretty much involves not getting into direct fights in the first place or to escape if i do. Though there are plenty of non-lethal spells available so there's no need to waste a feat even if you want to sling spells at people without killing them.

I do like (and have considered) Baleful Polymorph as a way to remove people that need to be removed though my animal of choice would have been a toad or fish.
In the end that's just for your own conscience though. It makes no actual difference to killing them outright (except that killing might be considered more merciful in some cases).

Not that there's anything wrong with protecting your sanity but if you decide to use your shiny new powers to make the world better you should at least be honest about the consequences of your actions, if only to yourself.

[Dalebert]

In the end that's just for your own conscience though. It makes no actual difference to killing them outright (except that killing might be considered more merciful in some cases).

Oh, absolutely. I realize it's a sort of mental masturbation--it's just the IDEA of killing someone that I feel like would change me forever. At least it's reversible if I started second-guessing my choices.


Not that there's anything wrong with protecting your sanity but if you decide to use your shiny new powers to make the world better you should at least be honest about the consequences of your actions, if only to yourself.

Yep. Honestly, anyone with that much power is a terrifying thing, even if it's me, the person I trust most in the world. :smallbiggrin: Power corrupts.

[Rubik]

Oh, absolutely. I realize it's a sort of mental masturbation--it's just the IDEA of killing someone that I feel like would change me forever. At least it's reversible if I started second-guessing my choices.

Yep. Honestly, anyone with that much power is a terrifying thing, even if it's me, the person I trust most in the world. :smallbiggrin: Power corrupts.That's why I'd cut that off from the beginning.

[Irk]

That's why I'd cut that off from the beginning.
That's why you go after the Borg first. Easy.

[Daishain]

Yep. Honestly, anyone with that much power is a terrifying thing, even if it's me, the person I trust most in the world. :smallbiggrin: Power corrupts.
I hate this meme with a passion. It is a pessimistic view that makes the few people in this world worthy of wielding great power afraid of going near it, as well as acting as an apology/excuse for the inexcusable actions of various bastards throughout history. "You've got it all wrong, the power went to his head and made him starve that poor section of the country to death in order to keep his power base well fed, he's a nice guy! Really!"

Power doesn't corrupt, it enables. Whether it is absolute or limited, it is simply a tool for someone to act out their will. Any "corruption" that occurs is simply a result of someone's darkest desires finally having the means to express themselves. In other words, you never truly know what a person is like until they have the ability to do just about anything, and that goes for yourself as well.

Now the problem we face, and the likely source of the meme, is this. The vast majority of the people that actually want and actively seek power are also at the top of the list of people that should be banned from having it.

[Rubik]

...Actually, I just discovered how to defeat elephants with a cantrip.

Ghost Sound. (http://www.omgfacts.com/lists/7877/War-elephants-can-be-defeated-by-pigs-On-fire)

[Irk]

...Actually, I just discovered how to defeat elephants with a cantrip.

Ghost Sound. (http://www.omgfacts.com/lists/7877/War-elephants-can-be-defeated-by-pigs-On-fire)
That is a great link. It's one of the few historical examples of "this is so stupid it might just work". Its gotta be up there with, like, the creation of the Owlbear.

[Seharvepernfan]

Well, the BBEG of the real world is a cabal of evil bankers (as far as I can tell). I'd get to work on that.

Assuming I'm ruleswise, the first thing I'd do is use whatever exp I currently have to make a "detect psychopathy" spell (detect evil, if you prefer), then I'd get to work on spells that can affect computers/internet/other tech. At low-levels, for exp (and money), I'd rob corrupt rich people and maybe a bank. I'd work my way up to exposing conspiracies and spreading knowledge of psychopathy to the masses. As a higher-leveled caster, I'd basically just ghost around, messing up the plots of bad guys and helping not-so-bad guys (kinda like the ultimate harper). Eventually, I'd bring down the biggest bad guys and vigilantly protect and guide the rise of a better civilization and (if possible) a good singularity (that'd be a good "epic" campaign, I'd think).

[Rubik]

Well, the BBEG of the real world is a cabal of evil bankers (as far as I can tell). I'd get to work on that.

Assuming I'm ruleswise, the first thing I'd do is use whatever exp I currently have to make a "detect psychopathy" spell (detect evil, if you prefer), then I'd get to work on spells that can affect computers/internet/other tech. At low-levels, for exp (and money), I'd rob corrupt rich people and maybe a bank. I'd work my way up to exposing conspiracies and spreading knowledge of psychopathy to the masses. As a higher-leveled caster, I'd basically just ghost around, messing up the plots of bad guys and helping not-so-bad guys (kinda like the ultimate harper). Eventually, I'd bring down the biggest bad guys and vigilantly protect and guide the rise of a better civilization and (if possible) a good singularity (that'd be a good "epic" campaign, I'd think).Chaotic Good, much?

[Phelix-Mu]

I fix my issues with killing people by awakening plants and teaching them to like the taste of manflesh, and give them tips about who tastes the best (poachers, illegal loggers, polluters). Once humans have to cope with creatures that are big and strong enough to eat them (at least on an individual basis...artillery still beats awakened trees), I expect the list of people that I would feel an impulse to kill would shrink significantly.

/sarcasm?

Honestly, aside from protecting a few things I'd want to protect, and maybe improving the lives of some of the worst off, I would probably just sit back and relax. Humans can generally be expected to find good ways of killing each other, so I wouldn't sweat it.

One of the things I would likely do is attempt to colonize Mars single-handedly. I'd go with a druid base, so I'd have plenty of time to work with, eventually.

I'd also like to keep humans from destroying Earth, at least long enough to allow them a good shot at wiping each other out first (good odds). Wouldn't be sporting to interfere too much, though, because magic would really allow one to start WWIII in just about no time flat.

Actually, there's a good idea.

I bet I could wipe make an Ark, wipe out humanity, then recolonize the Earth inside 10 levels. With enough cheese, I can probably squeak it into five levels, which would be nice.

Which brings up a good point: how much xp is the eradication of humanity worth?

[Forrestfire]

Eventually, you'll be more than eight levels higher than any individual human, so not much :smalltongue:

[Phelix-Mu]

Eventually, you'll be more than eight levels higher than any individual human, so not much :smalltongue:

No, I was thinking if I could pull it off early levels. Trivial for a wizard to be responsible for it (if not personally pulling the trigger), a little more challenging for a druid (pre-Wild Shape, anyway).

The easiest method, of course, is to simply infiltrate a nuclear base, confuse/befuddle/deceive/beguile the people with the power, arrange for simultaneous issuing of false commands to bypass the protocols, and bam, nuclear warhead flies. While it's not the cold war, there is still a disturbingly high likelihood that some idiot responds to a nuclear launch with another one, and after the first few fly, most of humanity is basically doomed (if not immediately, in the ensuing post-collapse years).

Extra measures and more optimization can trivialize gaps in the above plan without too much trouble.

Ideally, you would stretch this out into a series of encounters, with some leveling up in between, to avoid the restriction on earning too many levels at once.

Another thing I'd probably do is research custom spells. Awaken computer? Hack network? Alter genetics? Yes, please.

[Rubik]

There are good and bad humans. Why not just use a self-replicating trap to punish the bad ones? You have everything from Suggestion to Dominate Person to Polymorph Any Object: a wide variety of things to enforce your will on people who abuse the people and world around them.

[Phelix-Mu]

There are good and bad humans. Why not just use a self-replicating trap to punish the bad ones? You have everything from Suggestion to Dominate Person to Polymorph Any Object: a wide variety of things to enforce your will on people who abuse the people and world around them.

Meh. I don't like being the arbiter of who is acceptable and who is not. That assumes I have some right to choose. I'd much rather just subject the entirety of the populace (possibly including myself...but I have magic, so...) to a much harsher natural selection paradigm. This would force people to work hard, band together, and generally spend less time in self-indulgent pursuits and more time considering important stuff (like how to survive tomorrow).

I suppose it's still a form of manipulation, but at least I get to sit back and feel like the method is more "balanced." Hehe.

I'm also, irl, a druid at heart, so things like man-eating trees and animals that fight back all sound pretty cool to me. Won't stop humanity's big guns, of course, but will level the field enough that the rest of my magic would be able to supplement the general effort to keep humans in line (at least in regards to the environment). I would also be helping the subsistence farmers with sustainable agriculture and keeping the land fertile, and providing cleaner sources of water and sanitation, so I don't really mind if some tree I awakened is out there crushing the skulls of idiots that endanger our collective survival by despoiling limited resources.

Also, due to widespread magical contravention of thermodynamics, hyperbolic use of stuff like chill metal and the like could have a profound impact on world climate if used with the proper scale. Even stuff like control weather, while not as dramatic as fimbulwinter, would still be pretty effective at altering local climates over limited timescales.

Also of note, there is a 4th level druid spell, summon elemental guardian, from dragon, which lasts days/level. I'd have to read it again, but I think the creature can do non-combat stuff by command during that time, which would be useful for all kinds of stuff, as it has several useful spammable abilities.

ETF also really breaks the game, but there's a serious question of if enough cheese can be conjured to get to the point where proper abuse can be accomplished.

Hehe. Just full of ideas all of a sudden. Definite sign that I am likely procrastinating in some fashion, even if I don't realize it.:smallamused:

[Rubik]

RL humans are WAY outside of our CR when technology is considered. A single E6 human could obliterate an entire continent and everything on it with a single button-push.

I'm pretty sure "natural selection" would be anything but natural, and would lead to the direct destruction of any- and everything even remotely vicious.

There's a real reason why almost all of Earth's apex predators started their march to extinction as humans evolved to our current level of evolution.

[Phelix-Mu]

RL humans are WAY outside of our CR when technology is considered. A single E6 human could obliterate an entire continent and everything on it with a single button-push.

I'm pretty sure "natural selection" would be anything but natural, and would lead to the direct destruction of any- and everything even remotely vicious.

There's a real reason why almost all of Earth's apex predators started their march to extinction as humans evolved to our current level of evolution.

I'm not suggesting that humans would be helpless. Just that some spells could easily make life much harder on quite a large scale. Enough that human behavior would begin to change in order to cope with the problem (at least the lives of those affected).

And any plan to alter the world that hasn't already dealt with the humans that have access to those buttons isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Properly dealing with them is wizard purview.

If I really wanted to cause problems, I would just tinker around with gaps in the RL v RAW interactions until I had a real exploit. Like using baleful polymorph to allow animal diseases to cross into the human population. Druids are actually pretty good at contagion, Cancer Mages excepted, of course. I would be hesitant to use disease in this manner, but the option exists, and could probably yield some pretty high body counts with a minimal amount of effort if deployed optimally.

More sensibly, it would be fun to try to alter genomes via magical manipulation. What happens when a Wild Shaped druid breeds with animals? What happens when awakened animals breed with each other? (Answer: probably nothing, sadly.) What aspects of genetics are changed via polymorph? Is protein expression in cells altered by polymorphing effects altered? What about for longer lasting polymorph effects? What are the ramifications of non-RL types interacting genetically with humans (harvest reproductive materials from celestial summons, perhaps)? What about conferring permanent immunities?

And all of that is pretty basic. Given some of the stuff available at Tippy levels of optimization (assuming there is a method of reaching those levels), technology itself begins to look pretty much like a footnote.

[Dalebert]

Some interesting questions get raised by this concept that I found myself thinking about. Not surprisingly, it was while I was doing some chores, like...

Does an Unseen Servant know how to load a dishwasher? A D&D commoner would be clueless but a modern commoner knows how to this. It should be no more than DC 10. For that matter, can an Unseen Servant send a text message for you on your phone? Drive your car?

Do illusions show up on cameras? If so, can modern technology be used to figure out it's not real and if so, what would they think is going on? Would they think it's special effects in post? Can you disbelieve it while watching it on video and then will it look transparent? Does it automatically look transparent on video because your mind isn't there while the magic is happening to somehow reinforce it with belief?

What about partially real Shadow Magic?

Glamers like Disguise Self?

Does your cell phone work inside your Handy Haversack? Does metal show up on the airport scanner when you run your Handy Haversack through? (Not that you would be using the airport much. Just curious.)

Can I research a new cantrip to recharge small devices like a cell phone? I would want that!

The I realized these are all stupid and pointless questions that are completely arbitrary.

[Jacob.Tyr]

I'm not suggesting that humans would be helpless. Just that some spells could easily make life much harder on quite a large scale. Enough that human behavior would begin to change in order to cope with the problem (at least the lives of those affected).

And any plan to alter the world that hasn't already dealt with the humans that have access to those buttons isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Properly dealing with them is wizard purview.

If I really wanted to cause problems, I would just tinker around with gaps in the RL v RAW interactions until I had a real exploit. Like using baleful polymorph to allow animal diseases to cross into the human population. Druids are actually pretty good at contagion, Cancer Mages excepted, of course. I would be hesitant to use disease in this manner, but the option exists, and could probably yield some pretty high body counts with a minimal amount of effort if deployed optimally.

More sensibly, it would be fun to try to alter genomes via magical manipulation. What happens when a Wild Shaped druid breeds with animals? What happens when awakened animals breed with each other? (Answer: probably nothing, sadly.) What aspects of genetics are changed via polymorph? Is protein expression in cells altered by polymorphing effects altered? What about for longer lasting polymorph effects? What are the ramifications of non-RL types interacting genetically with humans (harvest reproductive materials from celestial summons, perhaps)? What about conferring permanent immunities?

And all of that is pretty basic. Given some of the stuff available at Tippy levels of optimization (assuming there is a method of reaching those levels), technology itself begins to look pretty much like a footnote.
Okay, I had never thought about whether or not polymorph et al modify genomes, and now I can't stop wondering about it. Productivity=Tanked.

If you really want to help rewild the Earth and protect natural resources and environments, this is a pretty weirdly roundabout way to do it. Turning every logging operation into something out of WH40K isn't going to stop logging. If we're talking even close to Tippy levels of optimization, you just completely negate the need for natural resources by creating a post-scarcity economy. Move it to a demi-plane that reads like a crossover of Rapture and Planescape. Make it a slow time plane as well, and you can ensure that even after a few weeks anyone sneaking back to Earth is going to find a radically different planet completely covered in wilderness.

Actually that sounds amazing. Screw everything else, my plan is to now make a really slow time demi-plane, set up a simulacrum there who will every 5 days/5,000 years go out and sample flora/fauna and build a giant zoo out of the next few millenia of life on earth. After ~1 year real time, he uses Teleport Through Time and pops out back to when he left, with my menagerie in tow. Maybe store them in some sort of stasis, and then spend the rest of my life/career studying them. Pretty sure that would get me a job at any R1 I wanted, once I managed to convince people I actually had these creatures.

[Rubik]

Do illusions show up on cameras? If so, can modern technology be used to figure out it's not real and if so, what would they think is going on? Would they think it's special effects in post? Can you disbelieve it while watching it on video and then will it look transparent? Does it automatically look transparent on video because your mind isn't there while the magic is happening to somehow reinforce it with belief?

What about partially real Shadow Magic?

Glamers like Disguise Self?Anything that isn't [Mind-Affecting] will show up on a camera, since glamers are like holograms -- even mindless drone constructs can see them.

And if [Mind-Affecting] things can be relayed through cameras...

...well, you just found a way to take over the world within minutes.

[Ruethgar]

Level 1 Human Animal Companion(UA) Focused Conjuration Specialist Wizard take Murky Eyed, Non-Combatant(both flaws I actually have), Innate Spell(DrM: Go with an Ocular Ray Extend Persist Sanctum War Create Water SLA 1/day), Create Scroll Device, Heighten Spell, Sanctum Spell, cross class Autohypnosis paired with Create Device to memorize my spells. Churn out Sanctum 0-level scrolls to gain XP and sell their effects(for example prestidigitation at a car wash/dry cleaner/hair salon/magic show/maid service), cheesy I know but get off my back, I don't want to slaughter animals. Without such cheese I would try the other mentioned ways to get solidly into 8th level.

Level 3, Craft Wondrous Item because traps are awesome.
Level 5, Craft Rune Circle because they are cheap and very useful(especially as Wondrous Architecture).
Level 8, Ritual of Vitality myself into a Cheese-wrought Kobold, Spellhoarding, Arcane, White Dragonspawn, Loredrake, Chosen of Mystra.

I would not use my magic for much because I am a little paranoid. Assuming the scroll trick works, I would get a job detailing cars to use up all the scrolls I make and prestidigitate in all spell slots for the practical things like heating my food, cleaning etc. Once I reach level 8, I don't have to be paranoid anymore and can start making my own demi-planes for friends and family, or you know, claim the moon as mine and terraform it, I actually like that idea better, more dangerous but still it makes me seem less like I'm just abandoning Earth.

Use my wish SLA for a single casting of Invisible Circle Magic to CL40 War Twin Ocular Ray Splitting Split Ray Chain Ray Extend Persist Wall of Stone, a level 4 spell. That will encircle the moon with easily 3 miles of space including stabilization pillars. Make a similarly insane True Creation wish for air adding on the grass growth side effect to have ground cover over about 4 million miles at a time(of the 14.6 million). A second more reasonable casting with the downpour side effect to make instant oceans(the original version creates more water than is on Earth so a bit too much for the moon). The amount of air created doesn't matter since it is measured in cubic feet with no regards to density I can compact all the needed air into my allowable creation space and it explodes upon creation to fill my dome. Make permanent daylights inside and have True Creation(Create Device: Wondrous Feather Tokens with power source included) to make a forest as well as True Create fertile seeds and eggs(non-magic dragons are going to be one of them).

[Phelix-Mu]

My main limiting factor was a ceiling on how high we can advance ourselves as a spellcaster, due to lack of level-appropriate enemies. Thus, much of Tippyverse is in question without some pretty hefty cheese. With less tools, I like a lower-impact solution, and much of that involves using real-world stuff to do the dirty work. Spells just catalyze the changes that ultimately are the goal. In this case, just a measure of parity between animals/plants and mankind is desirable to me, and if animals can't be effectively brought up that far, then I can certainly indulge in a bit of the other option.

I don't want to radically alter the world. I rather like the world. Just inject a bit of the unusual to make people consider things more.

Or kill all humans. Really, I vacillate quite a bit. :smallamused:

[Ruethgar]

Don't kill all humans, the race can survive just fine with a 99.999% culling. All you need to do is get 100 people for an incantation to contract the zombie fog disease(modified with side effects so it can actually kill people and be spread by more than injestion). Also, it only requires caster level 7 to perform the savage species rituals to change race(such as adding Chosen of Mystra for free SLAs).