[Eberron] How rare are Siberys Marks supposed to be?

[Novawurmson]

As title. Do you think there are maybe one hundred of each alive? Ten of each? One of each?

[Greenish]

You need to be at least level 14 to even have the mark, which is fairly rare in Eberron (at least for Khorvaire's PHB races), so I'd guess somewhere between zero and a dozen (at most) per mark.

[Afgncaap5]

It's a number that changes for me per story. I also violate the rules a bit, and grant the ability to lower level characters (it makes sense for PCs to have to work for that kind of power, but I tend to operate with exceptional NPCs who use their own rules.) I'd say that it depends on the house, but I'd guess between one and a dozen depending on the situation.

Hmm... you know, it occurs to me that the Vadalis might be able to figure out things about bloodlines that would allow them to secretly have more Heirs of Siberys than other houses. There's a plot here.

[Greenish]

Now that I think of it, City of Stormreach mentions that Orien constantly (or at least "currently") has three* Heirs of Siberys on stand-by just to teleport people from Sharn to Stormreach, so they can't be that rare.


*One of them is actually a rakshasa.

[Afgncaap5]

I think some book also has a table that suggests the likelihood of an heir of Siberys being in a major city on any given day. The odds usually aren't great for most cities, but it's common enough that a person can usually expect some kind of service in half a week or so.

The Storm Dragon books show a fun Heir of Siberys on hand... but also that he's supposedly more powerful than your standard House Lyrandar Siberys Heir.

[Novawurmson]

Follow-up question: How serious would a Siberys heir dying be? Remarked on in local news? International news?

Obviously, it would depend on circumstances, but say, a Siberys heir dying to an unfortunate accident. Celebrity death level or vice-president of a random company level?

[Greenish]

Presumably depends on the Heir. While Siberys marks are rare and powerful, they don't always translate to house standing, and house position, money, reputation, and connections are probably more central to how important someone is viewed, as opposed to whether they can cast an SLA once or twice a day. Even personality probably has more relevance than the mark, at least when it comes to gossip rags and everyday tattle: the passing of the playboy party animal Lyrandar heir would be far bigger news than that of the reticent Cannith tinkerer, even if the latter had a Siberys mark.

Of course, dragons and the big political players might well notice, given the power a Siberys mark represents.

[Novawurmson]

Presumably depends on the Heir. While Siberys marks are rare and powerful, they don't always translate to house standing, and house position, money, reputation, and connections are probably more central to how important someone is viewed, as opposed to whether they can cast an SLA once or twice a day. Even personality probably has more relevance than the mark, at least when it comes to gossip rags and everyday tattle: the passing of the playboy party animal Lyrandar heir would be far bigger news than that of the reticent Cannith tinkerer, even if the latter had a Siberys mark.

Of course, dragons and the big political players might well notice, given the power a Siberys mark represents.

Excellent response. That's really helpful for thinking about how the different situations would play out :D

Bad guy is picking off a Siberys heir of each house; he just needs the bodies, really, so he's got a few corpses that he didn't have to soil his hands with. The rest will be varying levels of importance - the most recent involved a direct raid on a Jorasco enclave in Sharn (obviously extremely high-profile), but some of them I already wanted to be less noticeable.

I had a few dragons from the Chamber on the case, so I'm glad to hear that concept is sound.

[Tindragon]

My understanding is pretty rare, I wouldn't think each House would have more than 3-5, and they would be the highest ranking house members, heads of house to boot.

Eberron (as I understand) was set up NOT to have many high level NPCs, (kind of the Anti FR) I believe the leader of the Silver Flame church (the girl) is equal to level 18 IIRC and she is considered a demi-god by most.

The death of anyone with a Syberis mark, is likely going to be major news, especially inside a house, and the word would travel very fast with all the systems in Eberron, and thus end up being well known among other houses, and then at least very noteworthy outside of the houses, something like the the 'B' block on the nightly news, or at least, a a final note from Dan Rather type of deal :P

If the PCs cause this death, there would likely be major consequences for them, and I wouldn't rule out a very large bounty for their capture (to explain if accidental) or dead or alive if many witnesses, or proof of guilt.

[Spore]

Eberron (as I understand) was set up NOT to have many high level NPCs, (kind of the Anti FR) I believe the leader of the Silver Flame church (the girl) is equal to level 18 IIRC and she is considered a demi-god by most.

She's a 3rd level cleric and only in her cathedral she is pushed up to a 18th level cleric.

Also as I have understood, Eberron only gives guidelines and a general feel and gives the DM much freedom to work with. So there are not EXACTLY three Siberys Marks but about three known (minus imposters, plus unknown bearers).

[Greenish]

My understanding is pretty rare, I wouldn't think each House would have more than 3-5, and they would be the highest ranking house members, heads of house to boot.In Eberron, Asskicking doesn't Equal Authority, in other words, levels and fighting ability are not what determines one's rank and social standing. Out of 17 House heads, only two have levels in Heir of Siberys, and of those, Lord Morrigan d'Kundarak has a hereditary position, and Maagrim Torrn d'Tharashk is part of a triumvirate that runs Tharashk.


Eberron (as I understand) was set up NOT to have many high level NPCs, (kind of the Anti FR) I believe the leader of the Silver Flame church (the girl) is equal to level 18 IIRC and she is considered a demi-god by most.Eberron, or more accuractely, Khorvaire, doesn't have great many high level characters running around, but there are some. Jaela Daran gets major reps not because of her high level (which as mentioned, only applies in her temple) but because she's the living representative and the literal Voice of God (or an entity worshipped as a deity, anyway).

[Novawurmson]

As far as levels are concerned, my players like being higher-leveled characters, so I've adjusted Eberron to fit. I'm roughly following a rule that there is about one level 20 NPC per country.

Even in regular Eberron, Oalian is a level 20 druid.

[Spore]

As far as levels are concerned, my players like being higher-leveled characters, so I've adjusted Eberron to fit. I'm roughly following a rule that there is about one level 20 NPC per country.

Still roughly half their levels are composed of NPC classes ^^

[Forrestfire]

Honestly, Eberron has just as many (actually probably more) high-level and epic NPCs as Faerun. They just don't visibly poke around with world politics as much as the ones in the Realms.

Going down the list, we've got:

Jaela Daran, level 18 when at home.
Her evil counterpart, currently stuck in Dreadhold. Cleric 11, 21 when in Flamekeep.
Several other mid-leveled (10-13ish, highest listed is 16 if you count her LA) NPCs also in Dreadhold
A bunch of people leveled 8-11ish in each of the Dragonmarked houses (plus those with Siberys marks).
Oalian, level 20 Druid.
Lady Vol, a high-level wizard lich.
The Aereni elves' Ascendant Councilors, CR 18, who normally hang out Astrally Projected.
The Daelkyr, starting at CR 20, although most (presumably) of the ones on Eberron are trapped.
Sarlona's big guns, the Kalaraq Quori, at CR 15. There are twelve of them currently, although they only hang out in an Inspired Vessel if they have a good reason for it.
A large amount of Great Wyrms form the Council. Probably at least several hundred, if not more.
The Eyes of Chronepsis, a group of 150 "elder dragons". Most of them probably have class levels. The one who's mentioned is a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon with 12 levels of Hidecarved Dragon.
The Light of Siberys, Argonnessen's army. Stated to include dragons "of all ages", so a good amount of high-level and epic ones. Many of them also have class levels in the ToB classes, Dragon PrCs, or caster PrCs like War Weaver. The highest-ranking is Lightkeeper Dolarashynach, a Great Wyrm Silver Dragon Cleric 1/Sacred Warder of Bahamut 7/Legendary Healer 5.
The Chamber, another pile of Great Wyrms. The example that's mentioned is Jancarlyrix, a Great Wyrm Bronze Dragon Loremaster 3.
Io’lokar, City of Knowledge, is a metropolis of 46,000 people where "a lowly clerk living in the Freeward might well be a 7th-level expert/8th-level adept". NPC levels, yes, but that's for a random person in the lowest-leveled area of the city. The city's inhabitants range from low-mid levels to epic-leveled characters in The Height, a location with four colleges full of "wizards, sages, and loremasters" all leveled 20+. One example is a Diviner 19/Dragon Prophet 5/Warrior 1. Another example is a Paladin 12/Fighter 14/Wizard 3. Many of these NPCs might not have the best builds, but being pretty far into epic levels grants a lot of power.
Dragons of Eberron has a bunch of other high-level NPCs and class level'd dragons, so I'm going to just skip over them. There's a lot, though.
Next up is the Lords of Dust:

30 Overlords/Rajahs, currently sealed. They're all ridiculously overpowered, so it's nice that they're sealed. The one that's statted up, Sul Khatesh, could probably solo most other settings unless a god of magic took hers away. Wizard 36/Archmage 4, on top of 20 hit dice, spontaneously casting from the entire list.
Another 30 form the Council of Ashtakala, direct underlings of the Rajahs. Each of them is at least ECL 18, and most are probably epic. We're given five names, Durastoran Wyrmbreaker, an Ak/chazar Rakshasa Loremaster 5/Fatespinner 5 (Cl 22), Hektula, the Bloody Scribe, a Rakshasa Wizard 10/Loremaster 10/Archmage 2 (CL 22), Korliac of the Gray Flame, an advanced 29-hit die Pit Fiend, Mordakhesh, the Shadowsword, a Zakya Rakshasa Blackguard 10/Legendary Leader 5, and Thelestes, the Velvet Blade, a Succubus Fighter 4/Rogue 2/Assassin 10, and Kashtarhak, the Voice of Chaos, a Rakshasa Sorcerer 10/Archmage 4 (Cl 21).


Most of the really scary NPCs aren't on Khorvaire, at least, but they definitely exist. I blame the Draconic Prophecy for them staying out of the spotlight.

I feel like the amount of Siberys marked people is probably best left for the DM to decide. We know that there are at least a few. I'd think that it's probably at least ten or so in each house.

[Greenish]

Really, outside Khorvaire you run into lots and lots of high-powered NPCs. Secrets of Sarlona alone mentions by name about a dozen level 20 Inspired Psions, and in Argonnessen Great Wyrm dragons with Epic dragon PrCs are a good start.

Khorvaire tends to be rather lower level in general (barring various sealed evils and secret super agents), but even there there are quite a few people in the 10-15 range, and some more-or-less active level 20's.

[Darkweave31]

IIRC, siberys marks are incredibly rare... like on the order of 0-2 for each.

[furby076]

if you are interested in reading a level 1-20 eberron (pathfinder rules) campaign, that spanned 10 years.... Here ya go :)

It helps highlights the power level of those with marks, the power level of npcs, etc. As in all campaigns, things scale.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?161697-Shilsen-s-Eberron-SH-(Finished-The-Last-Word-9-20-15)

[Falontani]

snip.

Where did you get most of these? Are they full statblocks or are they references? Are most of these in adventure modules?

[RedMage125]

Where did you get most of these? Are they full statblocks or are they references? Are most of these in adventure modules?

Some of them come from Dragon Magazine articles, several of which were written by Keith Baker himself.

The Voice of the Shadow in the Flame is, for sure, in an article about Dreadhold. She is specifically in the Stone Ward of Dreadhold, turned to stone so that she is not dead, which the Church felt might allow for another Voice of the Shadow to be born.

The Dragons likely come from the book Dragons of Eberron.

There was a Dragon article on quori and a Dragonshard article on the old WotC website about Quori. That might be where that came from.

I believe the Lords of Dust also came from Dragon, but I'll be damned if I know which one.

And the city with all the epic characters...first I've heard of it, and I have every Eberron product in print from all editions.

[Divayth Fyr]

And the city with all the epic characters...first I've heard of it, and I have every Eberron product in print from all editions.
Dragons of Eberron, pages 40-48.

[RedMage125]

Dragons of Eberron, pages 40-48.

:eek:
I did not remember that AT ALL. Just went through my old copy.

[stack]

Aberrant dragonmark used to cast thread necromancy. This one is 4 years old.

[TiaC]

Aberrant dragonmark used to cast thread necromancy. This one is 4 years old.

Weirdly, I had just looked at this thread in the last month, so it didn't look strange.