Pathfinder/3.X help for gestalt two weapon melee attacker

[ImpieBA]

So, yeah. Maybe I've been watching too much of the Hobbit lately. I'm going into a campaign soon, and I decided I wanted to do a cool wood elf build. Now, before I really get into depth, I want to explain my two compatriots and my dm.

Team mate 1 has been playing for years, but he isn't exactly the best. When he makes a sorcerer, he like to average out stats and use his feats for two weapon fighting. He cares more about playing 'the real lamp shady', donning a lamp shade over his head, asking before randomly for cheese, and tossing fireballs around. He's in it for fun completely, really.
Team mate 2 is a newbie. He's played maybe five games before, and none were really in depth sessions.
DM has been played since AD&D. He's pretty good when it comes down to it, but he doesn't minmax much. I expect a pc/npc party member from him. Most likely a half giant with a huge hammer, singing praises to Odin, or a monk, or a maniac sorcerer. He's good at pushing us, but he never super presses us.


Basically, playing tiers won't matter too much. I don't need to be awesome, really. So, I'm focusing on flavor. I want to play a Wood Elf for this reason. I want to be able to use a couple of weapons and do some evasive moves and several attacks.

One of my favorite builds I did was a rogue/swashbuckler build. It fits a bit here, but I'd like to not be too dependent on crits. I wouldn't mind doing similar again if I had something really useful to gestalt with, but I'd also really like to try some new things.

Elven lightblades/thinblades are considered martial weapons for elvenkind, even if it doesn't say so in the book.

You basically get to pick your favorite variant, basically. For example, we use 3.0 vorpal, where beheading is off of a crit instead of a natural 20. There's an item called a bladed gauntlet or something that crit off of 16-20 that was errataed later, but we can use 16-20. Improved crit stacks with keen and the like, etc.

We can also use sources outside of 3.X and pathfinder. Dragon magazine, dragonlance, I think warhammer has something. Basically, if it fits the format, it works.

I'm starting at level 5. Level bites are paid on both sides of the gestalt build. Only one prestige class at a time.

It's been probably a year or more since I've actively played d&d, so I'm a bit rusty. Still, flavorful wood elf martial attacker is my plan. I don't mind having a side be magic, but I don't want to focus on it. Complete Rogue stunts are a really cool idea for me.

I hope I've actually supplied enough information about what I want. I'm not overly familiar with pathfinder, but I have most of the books. It is a pathfinder campaign, so rules default to that for most categories. Thank you ahead of time!

[OldTrees1]

I think you would probably love the Tome of Battle classes including homebrew created for them.

However since you have so much content open, you might also consider Martial Rogue.

I would go

Warblade with Swordsage dips // Rogue(Martial) with a Barbarian(Spirit Lion Totem, Wolf Totem) 2 dip.

That way you get a bunch of neat attacks on one side (mostly martial, some supernatural) and basic martial prowess on the other side.

[Snowbluff]

You're going to want to get a lot of damage bonuses.

The 3.5 version of Arcane Strike would be great. Warblade with Blood in the Water + Kukri and sorcerer/wizard on the other side?

[Greenish]

PF elves do consider weapons with "elven" in their name as martial weapons (though in pure PF that is only one weapon, courtblade).

PF Paladin//PF Ninja might be funny.
Warlord//Bard (3.5 or PF) or Warlord//PF Soulknife should work too.
Stalker//Ranger/Barbarian/Whatever/Revenant Blade ought to be pretty cool, and also works with Swordsage instead of Stalker.
Dervish Defender Warder could be combined with most anything for solid TWF.

In short, you might want ToB or PoW as a base, with a side that can fill in what gaps you have. Soulknife has good Ref and Will and gets free weapons, Bard gets good skills, Ref and Will, casting and music (or non-music) boosts.

[ImpieBA]

@OldTrees1 I'll look into the Tome of Battle classes some more. I haven't delved too deeply into them, really. I did for a session a couple of years ago and that's it. Apparently, I have to look at something called White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge. I really like the intelligence of the warblade. If I find some nice maneuvers and stances that really appeal to the flavor I want, I just might do these.

The martial rogue was something I didn't really think about. It works really nice for what I want. All the skills but all those feats, too. It's a fantastic idea. I'm growing fond of the idea of barbarian as well. Pounce is good. I like pounce. The flavor of the wolf is great, too. I like it.

@Snowbluff Arcane strike could be useful. Blood in the water would help as well, which is another point toward the warblade.

@Greenish I'm not quite understanding a bit. I can't find a Stalker Class. I found the Warder, and with the Dervish added to it I am getting quite a feel for what I want with it. I really like this one. And is the Warlord that you suggested from Tome of Secrets? If it is, it doesn't quite fit the feel and flavor I want. Not really. The Revenant Blade has some neat bonuses, but off of a flavor thing it doesn't. Maybe the spirit ancestral thing, but not the giant killer thing or the double scimitar. I'm not entirely sure on the soulknife. It sounds like a lot of fun and useful. It isn't at all what I was thinking, but it just might work. Still, what is a Stalker, and was is a PoW?

[Greenish]

@Greenish I'm not quite understanding a bit. I can't find a Stalker Class. I found the Warder, and with the Dervish added to it I am getting quite a feel for what I want with it. I really like this one. And is the Warlord that you suggested from Tome of Secrets? If it is, it doesn't quite fit the feel and flavor I want. Not really. The Revenant Blade has some neat bonuses, but off of a flavor thing it doesn't. Maybe the spirit ancestral thing, but not the giant killer thing or the double scimitar. I'm not entirely sure on the soulknife. It sounds like a lot of fun and useful. It isn't at all what I was thinking, but it just might work. Still, what is a Stalker, and was is a PoW?Stalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/stalker). Warder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder) (with the Dervish Defender (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder/warder-archetypes/dervish-defender-warder-archetype) archetype). Warlord (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warlord).

PoW stands for Path of War, a ToB-inspired PF supplement by Dreamscarred Press.

[Xerlith]

Okay.

PF Elf (Alternate trait: Envoy)

Martial Rogue 2/Warblade 3/Revenant Blade 5/Eternal Blade 10//Dervish Defender Warder 20

Dex>Con>Int>Str (you need 13 here though)>Wis>Cha

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Double Weapon Finesse (PoW), Power Attack (3.5), Knowledge Devotion (3.5), Breadth of Experience (PF).

You treat both ends of your Double Scimitar as a two-handed weapon, so you can and should power attack all you want. With your INT score, you'll have no problem with maxing the relevant Knowledge skills for the purposes of Knowledge Devotion.

You add your INT modifier to your AC.

This concept could be done better, but this is fairy simple.

Focus on Diamond Mind (boosts that give more attacks!) and Thrashing Dragon (more damage on attacks!) maneuvers.

Some Golden Lion maneuvers may be worth it for this build.

You'll want Raging Hunter Pounce from Primal Fury. Because attacks.

[OldTrees1]

Okay.

PF Elf (Alternate trait: Envoy)

Martial Rogue 2/Warblade 3/Revenant Blade 5/Eternal Blade 10//Dervish Defender Warder 20


Why an Active build on both sides? For that matter, why an initiator on both sides?

[Xerlith]

Why an Active build on both sides? For that matter, why an initiator on both sides?

Well, I said it could be done better and chose to follow the focusing on flavor part. Eternal Blade/Revenant blade is flavor-loaded. Overloaded even.

Second: the Warder could be a decent passive class all by itself. The point here is all the bonus abilities it give AND the decent choice of maneuvers.
Third: I don't think following the concept of "sides" to the very end is really a good idea. I treat the build as a whole, not a two-rail road.

The Warblade is there because Diamond Mind has some tasty counters and boosts and it qualifies me for Eternal Blade. Revenant blade is passive, so no need to explain here.
Also: Weapon Aptitude. If the DM is lenient, Aptitude'ing away all the Double Scimitar feats and abilities to some other weapons means the point of "using many weapons" of the build is done as well.

The "Active" part of the Warblade side of the build comes into play when the Eternal Blade levels appear - that is at 10th. What's the point? You get some tasty abilities and the very potent capstone at 20th level. And you get to add readied/known maneuvers to the Warder side, including Devoted Spirit and Diamond Mind. So two things: BIG amount of maneuvers and nice abilities. Reducing DR on ALL your attacks as a swift action is HUGE for a 2WFer.


Well, the build works as well if not better if instead it's
Swashbuckler3/Factotum2/Revenant Blade5/Factotum+6/Swordsage1/Eternal Blade 3//Dervish Dancer Warder 20
(I lost my ideas for the last 4 levels)

So yeah. It can be done (Factotum 8 for more standards of course).

[Greenish]

Dragon Fury can substitute for Revenant Blade, too, if the latter's not to one's tastes.

[ImpieBA]

Wow, you guys are quick. Thank you all for helping me so much!

@Greenish I will look at those a bit more in the morning. It's late enough to call early and I've spend most of the last two hours combing over maneuvers, stances, feats, and handbooks of Warblades. I don't completely have that thought for them at the moment. I'm really liking Stalker from what I see. There's a good chance that I'll end up crit fishing, and this adds a whole lot of very obvious flavor to it. I'm still really liking the Dervish Defender Warden, and there's a part in the back of my mind that's seeing a D12 for health and three good saves with martial rogue. With this particular DM, that's almost as good as mind blank. I'm not sure how I feel about Warlord yet. I'll have to think about that. The Dragon Fury has some nice flavor to it! I'll check out Broken Blade, Primal Fury, and Thrashing Dragon stances in the morning.

@Xerlith I'm definitely keeping that build idea in my back pocket. That sounds like a lot of fun! And you are right. It is overloaded in flavor. Still, the Revenant Blade, in particular the Double Scimitar, doesn't fit the flavor I'm looking for, as good as it is. You're giving me a lot of good arguments as to why I should change that character idea. I keep looking at my Zidane icon and it's pushing me toward it. It would be really nice. The Eternal Blade is definitely something I like, looking at it.

I'm actively considering

Warblade
Warden (Dervish Defender)
Martial Rogue
Eternal Blade

Partially considering

Revenant Blade
Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian (dip)
Dragon Fury


I mostly likely will go with Kukri for my weapon. It fits well in my mind, and I have a weakness for actual Kukri. those things are amazing.