View Full Version : Devil tranfromation

2007-03-12, 05:13 PM
In the game I'm in I have a Priest that had came in contact with devils in hell and met a pit fiend that was a tower of strength and inspiration to my character and I had been in more contact with other devils around the planes.
At this moment I realy want to make a 9th level spell that allows me to tranfrom into a pit fiend as the character.
My thoughts on this matter are thus I need the earth of hell, the blood or bone of a pit fiend, and about 1000 exp points to make this spell.
With the matierals made into a focus to cast.

I realy need some more info about making divine spells any thoughts?

2007-03-12, 11:28 PM
There's one spell that's kind of like this, only slightly different. Investiture of the Pit Fiend, I believe a 9th level spell from the Fiendish Codex II that draws power from a pit fiend to empower yourself in a few optional ways. Plus, if you don't worry about cheesiness, I think shapechange can do that.

2007-03-13, 01:41 AM
Well, comparing Dragonshape with the stats of Balor and Pit Fiend, I don't think it's too far off. I could see a Balorshape version granting only 100 hp and maybe one use of telekinesis. The Pit Fiend has more attack powers, so no SLA's at all. Either one is probably stronger than Dragonshape, but not overpoweringly so.

(Dragonshape is a spell of the new polymorph subschool in the PHBII, it essentially replaces your stats with a pre-made monster stat block except for your effective hit dice against spells like blasphemy, and your hp, though most grant some temporary hp.)

2007-03-13, 01:57 AM
does dragonshape allow the spell-like powers that a dragon/pit fiend has? because the whole point of this is not just the shape but the substance aswell.

2007-03-13, 02:34 AM
No, it doesn't. It would give you supernatural abilities, but not spell-like. All the spell-like abilities of a Pit Fiend... that's quite a bit too powerful for even a 9th-level spell.

2007-03-13, 07:19 AM
Thats why i suggested that I paid in exps for the spell and because the pit fiends power is tied to hell I'm going to make hell believe that i am a pit fiend by using the earth as conduit and the bones/blood as a focus.

2007-03-13, 07:44 AM
Temporarily, permanently or instantaneously ... what kind of transformation are you looking for?

It sounds like you are looking for an instantaneous one, but really ... that can't be balanced. Maybe if you give up all your existing class levels I'd allow it as a DM.

2007-03-13, 02:13 PM
yeah an instant one minus monster levels but keep physical stats and spell-like abilites. but too powerful even for 9 level spells huh? need epic?

2007-03-13, 04:03 PM
Well, even Epic doesn't permit an Instant transformation or the spell-likes without a bit of DM fiat (which is listed as being a good thing).

But... well, a Pit Fiend is a bit too strong to add class levels and put it in the player's hands.

See, the ECL of a critter is, in most cases, considerably higher than it's CR.

Lizardfolk: 2 HD, +1 LA, ECL 3, CR 1
Centaur: 4 HD, +2 LA, ECL 6, CR 3
Harpy: 7 HD, +3 LA, ECL 10, CR 4
Wyrmling Green Dragon: 5 HD, +5 LA, ECL 10, CR 3
Hezrou: 10 HD, +9 LA, ECL 19, CR 11

In general, the ECL of a critter is going to be about 2-3 times it's CR. And that's with the racial HD to water-down their power. And Pit Fiends are CR 20. And you're wanting to remove the racial HD.

You want to drop the racial HD, keeping your class levels... but class levels are pretty much always more valuable than monster HD.

The Pit Fiend's stats are 37/27/27/26/26/26 - which, with the Monsters as characters rules, means that they have racial adjustments of +26/+16/+16/+16/+16/+16; insanely good for basically any class, and that's before magic items to boost it further (+11 to any one from a +6 stat item and the +5 Manual/Tome). When you tack on hard-to-penetrate DR 15, Regeneration 5, and SR 32, you've got a crazy-good defensive package. When you add in Flight, Spell-likes, poison, fear aura, and type immunities, it just gets worse. And you want to keep your class levels, too.

There is no balance in that.

2007-03-13, 04:25 PM
Okay just had an evilasm. Just reread the monster manual pit fiend section and yes cut out the spell-abilites. How about that for 9th level?

2007-03-13, 04:47 PM
If you're heading into Epic anyway, why not make it a special spell that will gradually (read, advancing each time you gain a new level) make you more like a Pit Fiend? That sounds more like a PrC though but... well that is my suggestion.

2007-03-13, 04:52 PM
Savage Species in its transformation bit has an option of Wish allowing you to transform. Yet there is a chance you won't get all its abilities, and you will have to do 5,000 xp.

2007-03-13, 05:14 PM
I would let your DM rule this out rather than using obscure rules.

2007-03-13, 05:44 PM
Just want to clarify, as I think maybe we're not all using the same meaning when we say "instantaneous." @ Axraelshelm: what you want is a spell that turns you into a pit fiend...for how long? Permanently? For a set duration? Semi-permanently until dismissed/dispelled? That will mean a lot when trying to figure out the power level.

If you DO mean permanently (ie with duration: instantaneous) then yeah, way too powerful. A character who was a pit fiend would have a huge LA, which is NOT going to be offset by a mere 1000 XP. Even 10-20k would probably be too little, as the Pit Fiend is listed LA -- , which means way too big.

2007-03-13, 05:51 PM
I would let your DM rule this out rather than using obscure rules.

Yeah i know. I always run things by him anyway it's just that i like hearing ideas

2007-03-13, 06:55 PM
I'd allow a 9th level spell of the polymorph subschool with a standard action casting time which turned you into a pitfiend with all abilities except for the wish for 1 round/level.

The problem with polymorph type effects with longer duration is that monsters are just not balanced for intelligent play. Their AC is only balanced for when it is played as it's MM entry. An equipped pit-fiend could easily have an AC in the 60s ... it would make martial encounters a bit futile.

2007-03-14, 04:27 PM
Let's see... if you drop the Spell-Like abilities, and are unconcerned with the mental attributes and HP, it's a fairly straightforward as a (Dispellable) Epic spell, based on the Transform seed.

Assuming, for a moment, that you're currently Medium...
Base DC 21 (Transform)
Changing Types: +5
18 HD, which is 3 over 15, so +2*3=+6
+10 for each Ex and Su ability (Constrict, Disease, Fear Aura, Improved Grab, Poison, Regeneration, DR, Darkvision, Immunity to Fire, Immunity to Poison, Resistance to Acid, Resistance to Cold, See in Darkness, Spell Resistance, Telepathy; 15 of them)+10*15=+150
It is, by default, Permanent.

Base Spellcraft DC: 182

Mitigation is where the cheese usually comes in. That, and most polymorph effects end up dripping limburgher. A casting time of 81 days, 11 minutes (10 extra minutes, 81 extra days) mitigate that to 0.