Boosting CL past HD for Sorcerer PrC early-entry

[Extra Anchovies]

I'm currently working on a build for a sorcerer, going into sandshaper and incantatrix with a one-level dip into mindbender somewhere (because mindsight is nice). Is there a way to meet all of the prerequisites for Sandshaper or Mindbender by level 4, so my fifth character level is in one of those PrCs? The skill and/or feat requirements are easy, but I need arcane caster level 5th. I want to get 8 levels of Incantatrix and at least 7 levels of Sand Shaper into the build, so I'd only be able to get that level of Mindbender in if I can squeeze the levels of Sorcerer down to 4. I know getting CL past HD isn't impossible, is there any way to do it by 4th level without resorting to Kobold cheese?

[Daishain]

Only means I know of to do what you want would be the kobold cheese you mentioned, and Lore Drake, which is even cheesier, and requires you to be a true dragon.

Did you want improved dust magic that badly? or is it desert slumber you're after? I would think that finishing Incantrix out would be the better choice.

[Extra Anchovies]

Only means I know of to do what you want would be the kobold cheese you mentioned, and Lore Drake, which is even cheesier, and requires you to be a true dragon.

True. If I end up taking this to a high-op game then I'll for sure be a White Dragonspawn Loredrake (buying off the LA, of course) for +3 sorcerer casting, but I don't think that would fly in most games.

On the topic of sovereign archetypes, how are they acquired? Do you need to spend a feat on them? Or can you just pick one when you become a true dragon?

[Extra Anchovies]

Would the Illumian Krau Sigil do it? It's not clear if the "maximum value equal to the illumian’s character level" refers to the bonus or to total caster level.

ETA: Or maybe Circle Magic? That's only temporary, so I'm not sure there. Nope, needs Red Wizard levels. drerp

[Psyren]

Magic items can be used to qualify for PrCs per CArc, so something that boosts your CL like an orange ioun stone should do the trick. Of course this sort of thing swiftly leads you to another avenue of cheese, i.e. breaking WBL guidelines.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Create Magic Tattoo can raise CL by 1. It's a second level spell.

[Snowbluff]

There's some ale yo ucan drink to improve CL somewhere... :smalltongue:

[dextercorvia]

That requirement can be satisfied by having any caster level of 5. So, you could take the Bloodline of Fire feat (if appropriate to your character) and having at least one fire spell known. You can accomplish a similar thing with the Spell Thematics feat, or an appropriate reserve feat.

If you weren't trying to get in as a Sorcerer, you could use Duergar for the SLA caster level of twice your class level. So long as you can buy off that LA it makes a pretty good Beguiler into Sandshaper.

[Uncle Pine]

As Psyren has pointed out, as magic items can be used to qualify for PrCs you might find this (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1054346) useful.

[Extra Anchovies]

Create Magic Tattoo can raise CL by 1. It's a second level spell.

Oooh, oooh, oooh! This one is perfect! It requires CL 13 to inscribe the "+1 level of spellcasting ability" tattoo, so that's only 260 gp! Well within WBL for levels 2-4. However, the duration is tricky. A CL 13 wand with seven charges (enough to last a week) costs 2730 gp, do you a full week would be enough? (e.g. I look at my character sheet and see we'll be leveling up soon, so I start using the wand during the next adventure)

Of course, if my DM requires downtime before leveling up, then I can just have the CL raising tattoo applied by an NPC caster for the 260, and level up that day.

ETA:

That requirement can be satisfied by having any caster level of 5. So, you could take the Bloodline of Fire feat (if appropriate to your character) and having at least one fire spell known. You can accomplish a similar thing with the Spell Thematics feat, or an appropriate reserve feat.

Thanks for pointing that out, I wasn't exactly sure how CL requirements worked. Do you know where I could find an official statement of that rule, for future reference?

Also, now that I know reserve feats work, I think I've solved my problem. Play a human (or take flaws), and at 1st level grab Precocious Apprentice (Rainbow Beam) and Sunlight Eyes. The only other useful option is Melf's Acid Arrow -> Acidic Splatter, but I don't like that spell :smalltongue:

[nedz]

There's some ale you can drink to improve CL somewhere... :smalltongue:

Ah, but that must be consumed whilst eating an Enchanted Ploughman's Lunch.:smallcool:

[Ansem]

The only way to do this is by the Right of Passage from the web supplement.
Loredrake would never work as you would sacrifice too many dragon HD for the +2 Sorcerer levels and anyone thinking Dragonwrought Kobolds are true dragons either have a reading imparity or a DM who'd might as well allow every broken thing from the dandwiki homebrew.

[Extra Anchovies]

The only way to do this is by the Right of Passage from the web supplement.
Loredrake would never work as you would sacrifice too many dragon HD for the +2 Sorcerer levels and anyone thinking Dragonwrought Kobolds are true dragons either have a reading imparity or a DM who'd might as well allow every broken thing from the dandwiki homebrew.

do not speak of that wiki here! its very name burns the mind! :smalltongue:

Anyways, could you possibly link the web enhancement in question? Nevermind, found it. Will consider it for sure.

[dextercorvia]

Thanks for pointing that out, I wasn't exactly sure how CL requirements worked. Do you know where I could find an official statement of that rule, for future reference?

In English if no article is used, then the indefinite article is the default. So, Caster Level 5th is A Caster Level 5th, not All Caster Levels 5th. I'm also relying on the wording that most SLAs are arcane, and the fact that these don't specify otherwise. This is as clear of a statement as I can find in RAW:


For feats or prestige classes requiring a minimum caster level, creatures that use spell-like abilities or invocations instead of spells use either their fixed caster level or their class level to determine qualification. For example, Craft Wondrous Item has a requirement of caster level 3rd, so both a 3rd-level warlock and a nixie (caster level 4th for its charm person spell-like ability) meet the requirement.

So, you see a nixie Sorcerer 1 has CL 1 (probably) for several spells, and CL 4 for one particular SLA, but qualifies for feats and PrCs that require CL 4.

[Extra Anchovies]

So, you see a nixie Sorcerer 1 has CL 1 (probably) for several spells, and CL 4 for one particular SLA, but qualifies for feats and PrCs that require CL 4.

Oooh, I like that. Would I be able to get by on just a Ruby Skull of Wee Jas or similar continuous non-generic CL boosting item? It gives me +1 CL for Necromancy spells when used as a focus.

[Segev]

If you go by the interpretation that bloodline levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) are effectively "pre-bought-off" LA, then a single bloodline level early on would get you +1 LA for a couple thousand exp.

White Dragonspawn is a +1 LA template that gives +1 Sorcerer level, and could thus be bought off at level 3. That would cost you 2000 exp, I believe.

The child template from Game of Thrones d20 or the old PF one (from what I understand) comes with a -1 LA; either use it directly for +1 level over your ECL, or use it in conjunction with White Dragonspawn to have a net +0 LA and a sorc level 1 higher than your ECL.

[Extra Anchovies]

If you go by the interpretation that bloodline levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm) are effectively "pre-bought-off" LA, then a single bloodline level early on would get you +1 LA for a couple thousand exp.

White Dragonspawn is a +1 LA template that gives +1 Sorcerer level, and could thus be bought off at level 3. That would cost you 2000 exp, I believe.

The child template from Game of Thrones d20 or the old PF one (from what I understand) comes with a -1 LA; either use it directly for +1 level over your ECL, or use it in conjunction with White Dragonspawn to have a net +0 LA and a sorc level 1 higher than your ECL.

Hm. Bloodlines look good. I don't think I want to have to buy off three levels' worth, and only need the one bloodline level, so I think I'll stick with a minor bloodline. Maybe Minor Fey Bloodline for Iron Will (required for Incantatrix) and +1 Charisma? I was thinking about the Unseelie Fey template anyways, so it fits the fluff.

[ace rooster]

Oooh, I like that. Would I be able to get by on just a Ruby Skull of Wee Jas or similar continuous non-generic CL boosting item? It gives me +1 CL for Necromancy spells when used as a focus.

Unfortunately there are very few items, domains or feats that are not phrased as "you cast [spells] at [+-x] caster level". These things do not change your caster level at all, only the caster level of some spells you cast.

The ioun stone thing works though.

[dextercorvia]

Oooh, I like that. Would I be able to get by on just a Ruby Skull of Wee Jas or similar continuous non-generic CL boosting item? It gives me +1 CL for Necromancy spells when used as a focus.

Maybe. It only works when being used as a focus (actually casting the spell) and calls out "effective" CL.

[Fax Celestis]

Could you make the Spellthief Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?95070-3-5-The-Spellthief-Theurge) work? Might be too low level for the hilarity to kick in.

[Extra Anchovies]

Unfortunately there are very few items, domains or feats that are not phrased as "you cast [spells] at [+-x] caster level". These things do not change your caster level at all, only the caster level of some spells you cast.

The ioun stone thing works though.


Maybe. It only works when being used as a focus (actually casting the spell) and calls out "effective" CL.

True, thanks for catching that. If only it were that easy...

I'll be going with bloodlines, though. A Minor Fey Bloodline nets me three things that I need: +1 caster level over hit dice for Mindbender, Iron Will for Incantatrix, and +1 Charisma for looking pretty.

[atemu1234]

There are Ioun Stones, then there's that one fairy with a higher sorcerer level than its hit dice (start taking levels of sorcerer, get DM to approve LA buyoff).

[dextercorvia]

I'll be going with bloodlines, though. A Minor Fey Bloodline nets me three things that I need: +1 caster level over hit dice for Mindbender, Iron Will for Incantatrix, and +1 Charisma for looking pretty.

That seems like your best bet if your DM allows bloodlines to not advance ECL (some don't).