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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class How to build a jester/mesmer/clown/mime class? (PEACH)



LordErebus12
2014-09-21, 11:11 PM
i want to create a jester/mesmer/mime type of class.

I thought it would be interesting to create walls of force on the battlefield, teleport, create illusion copies of yourself, and other chaotic shenanigans.

I was hoping for something without the standard sneak attack, since most of those builds/homebrew classes seem to want to incorporate (or at least multiclass for it) sneak attack into it somewhere.

I was thinking of something in between a bard, rogue, arcane trickster, and that old Jester class... I wanted it to have a Mime theme or something.

Definitely invocation based...

I wanted to discuss it with my fellow builders, before cooping a homebrewed class for it.

Eno Remnant
2014-09-22, 03:26 AM
Well, after considering your idea, I've got a couple of suggestions.

First, in the way of names, how about Harlequin? Makes it sound delightfully tricky, doesn't it?

Second, alignment. Naturally, you could only be Chaotic. That's a no-brainer.

Third, class skills. Tumble and Perform are going to be essential for a trickster. Concentration too, since what you're planning to make will likely be a caster with some mundane combat applications like the Jester. It's really a given for casters anyway.

Fourth, invocations. I'd suggest you give it the Prismatic set of spells, because they fit with the whole clever, chaotic theme you're going for.

Do you know if it's going to be a base class or a prestige? The way you've phrased it makes it seem like you're doing a base class, but I just wanna make sure.

I have other ideas, but they're not coming to me right now. Hope these help :smallsmile:

LordErebus12
2014-09-22, 03:07 PM
Well, after considering your idea, I've got a couple of suggestions.

First, in the way of names, how about Harlequin? Makes it sound delightfully tricky, doesn't it?

Second, alignment. Naturally, you could only be Chaotic. That's a no-brainer.

Third, class skills. Tumble and Perform are going to be essential for a trickster. Concentration too, since what you're planning to make will likely be a caster with some mundane combat applications like the Jester. It's really a given for casters anyway.

Fourth, invocations. I'd suggest you give it the Prismatic set of spells, because they fit with the whole clever, chaotic theme you're going for.

Do you know if it's going to be a base class or a prestige? The way you've phrased it makes it seem like you're doing a base class, but I just wanna make sure.

I have other ideas, but they're not coming to me right now. Hope these help :smallsmile:

I agree with much of what you've said, and any help you might offer would be more than appreciated.

Definitely a base class.

Eno Remnant
2014-09-22, 04:59 PM
Good to know. Now, invocations are tricky, because instead of levels you get the four grades. Since the idea you're working with seems to be adapting arcane spells as invocations instead of making your own (probably more effort than its worth to make your own anyway), you'll have to carefully consider the power level of each spell you're adapting when you fit them into a grade. As it stands, the Warlock's invocation progression is probably the best way for this class to progress.

As for the invocations themselves, I'm sure you already have a good idea of what to do. The Prismatic spell family, some illusions that fit the class, etc. Since you're going for a mime idea as the basis of this class, giving it a class feature that lets it use invocations silently (like Silent Spell, only adapted to suit SLAs. You might even create the Silent Spell-Like Ability feat) might be a good idea.

Whenever I try to picture this class, I see a person in a grinning mask slinging spells and stabbing at enemies with a dagger as they go by. So it really feels like a bit of a gish class, with a little more focus on the casting than the melee. The BAB progression of the Rogue seems like the best option, and maybe it should gain bonus feats based on movement (e.g. Spring Attack, which it could get without the really bad pre-reqs).

Since the idea of this class in my head is a kind of arcane skirmisher, it'd probably have good Will and Reflex saves with a poor Fortitude save.

That's about as much as I can offer you without making the class for you :smallwink: Though if you have any particular questions you need answered to make this thing I'll be happy to help you out :smallbiggrin:

Just to Browse
2014-09-22, 06:08 PM
You will need a few things:
A fallback class feature (e.g. warlock, DFA) or a large number of abilities available at any given time (e.g. warblade, wizard). If this class gets the same number of invocations as a warlock, it needs something that lets it contribute regularly in a fight when those invocations aren't useful.
Vague ideas of builds that the class can use. Throwing together a hundred different invocations and letting players optimize from those is possible (though painful), but you are better off thinking up 3-4 different builds and then writing in the tools to let the jester/mime achieve those builds.
A spread of utility and combat ability. This is self-explanatory, but a lot of people forget it.

There isn't much else to show you without getting some concrete mechanics.

I currently use this (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Jester_(3.5e_Class)) as my go-to jester when a player is interested in playing one. It goes against a couple of your design goals (it has sneak attack and spellcasting) but I recommend pillaging it for ideas.

Hanuman
2014-09-22, 06:13 PM
It's a scoundrel, so read Complete Scoundrel sourcebook. Also worth mention is beguiler and Complete Adventurer.

BAB
HD
Saves (which are good, which are bad)
Spell Advancement (Divine/Arcane)(Existing class comparison)
Psionics? Y/N
Maneuvers? Y/N
Invocations? Y/N
Essentia? Y/N
Tricks? Y/N
Sneak Attack? Y/N
What are some existing archetypes with similar abilities to your goal?
What tier do you want your class to be?

Keep in mind that your class:
Has to inspire YOU to play it in a game.
Is seen by you that other people would pragmatically use it in their games.
If designed for players be designed for fun, players don't want to play NPC classes.

Some shortcuts to save you a LOT of time:
Always look for references, whether it be source or homebrew, can you find, google, forumsearchfunction classes or concepts similar to what you are making?
Would this class be better as an ACF or a small tweak to an existing class? Why not?
Whatever imperfections the mechanics leave out fluff can often fill in, unless you are going to do something very silly like spend years fixing a huge class system like ozodrin :smallwink:

LordErebus12
2014-09-22, 10:38 PM
Harlequin

http://i.imgur.com/Dn1f20l.jpg

Role:

Alignment: Any Non-Lawful.
Hit Die: d6.

Class Skills
The Harlequin’s class skills are Balance (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 8 + Int modifier.

Table: The Harlequin


Level
Base Attack
Bonus
Fort
Save
Ref
Save
Will
Save
Special
Dodge
Bonus
Invocations
Known


1st
+0
+0
+2
+2
Least Invocation
---
1


2nd
+1
+0
+3
+3
Athletic Acrobat, Mobility
+0
2


3rd
+2
+1
+3
+3

+0
2


4th
+3
+1
+4
+4

+1
3


5th
+3
+1
+4
+4
Silent Invocations
+1
4


6th
+4
+2
+5
+5
Spring Attack
+1
4


7th
+5
+2
+5
+5
Lesser Invocation
+1
5


8th
+6/+1
+2
+6
+6

+2
6


9th
+6/+1
+3
+6
+6

+2
6


10th
+7/+2
+3
+7
+7

+2
7


11th
+8/+3
+3
+7
+7
Still Invocations
+2
8


12th
+9/+4
+4
+8
+8
Bounding Assault
+3
8


13th
+9/+4
+4
+8
+8
Greater Invocation
+3
9


14th
+10/+5
+4
+9
+9

+3
10


15th
+11/+6/+1
+5
+9
+9

+3
10


16th
+12/+7/+2
+5
+10
+10

+4
11


17th
+12/+7/+2
+5
+10
+10
Sudden Invocations
+4
12


18th
+13/+8/+3
+6
+11
+11
Rapid Blitz
+4
12


19th
+14/+9/+4
+6
+11
+11
Dark Invocation
+4
13


20th
+15/+10/+5
+6
+12
+12

+5
14



Class Feature (Ex):

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Harlequins are proficient with all simple weapons, as well as with bolas, flails (light and heavy), greatclubs, hammers (light and warhammer), hand crossbows, kukris, nets, rapiers, saps, scythes, and whips.

Harlequins are proficient with light armor but not with shields. Because the somatic components required for invocations are relatively simple, a harlequin can use any of his invocations while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like arcane spellcasters, a harlequin wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure (all invocations have a somatic component). A multiclass harlequin still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from levels in other classes.

2nd - Athletic Acrobat (Ex):
Dodge bonus to AC, equal to the class bonus (as shown on the class table above), plus the Harlequin's Wisdom Modifier.

2nd - Mobility (Grants the Mobility feat as a bonus feat, ignoring all prerequisites. From Player's Handbook v.3.5, p. 98) (Ex):
You are skilled at dodging past opponents and avoiding blows.
You get a +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity caused when you move out of or within a threatened area. A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Dodge bonuses (such as this one and a dwarf's racial bonus on dodge attempts against giants) stack with each other, unlike most types of bonuses.

5th - Silent Invocations (Su):
Three times per day, you can use your invocations as silent spell like abilities. This creates silent invocations without any noise, removing any verbal components (if any) required by the invocation.

6th - Spring Attack (Grants the Spring Attack feat as a bonus feat, ignoring all prerequisites. From Player's Handbook v.3.5, p. 100) (Ex):
You are trained in fast melee attacks and fancy footwork.
When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can't use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.
You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack

11th - Still Invocations (Su):
Three times per day, you can use your invocations as still spell like abilities. These still invocations require no somatic components (if any) when using the invocation.

12th - Bounding Assault (Grants the Bounding Assault feat as a bonus feat, ignoring all prerequisites. From Player's Handbook II, p. 75) (Ex):
You can move and attack with superior speed and power.
When using the Spring Attack feat, you designate two foes rather than one. Your movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity from either of these foes. While using an attack action with the Spring Attack feat, you can make a second attack with a -5 penalty. You can use both attacks against one of the opponents targeted with this feat, or split your attacks between them.

17th - Sudden Invocations (Su):
Three times per day, you can now use your 'standard action' invocations as a 'swift action', that provokes no attack of opportunity.

18th - Rapid Blitz (Grants the Rapid Blitz feat as a bonus feat, ignoring all prerequisites. From Player's Handbook II, p. 82) (Ex):
You charge across the battlefield, combining your speed and fighting ability to move and attack with unmatched skill.
You can designate a third target for your Spring Attack feat. In addition to the second attack you gain from your Bounding Assault feat, you can make a third attack with a -10 penalty.




Harlequin

0—ghost sound: Do not overlook the importance of distracting guards with phantom noises.
0—mage hand: Useful for plucking desired items away from elaborately trapped displays or for “grabbing” objects you wouldn’t want to actually touch. The open/close spell is only slightly less useful.
0—open/close: good for setting off mechanical traps on doors, chests and other things that open/close.

1st—disguise self: This is a natural choice for any clever scoundrel attempting to infiltrate a gathering of people of a different social rank. The value of the +10 bonus on Disguise checks cannot be overstated.
1st—expeditious retreat: You can move only half your speed without taking a penalty on Hide and Move Silently checks. Why not boost your speed and make that half go farther?
1st—sleep: Especially good at lower levels when you have no alternatives, sleep lets you slip past guards unnoticed. Better yet, if you are discovered and a mass of opponents blocks your escape, this spell can open up a route to freedom.

2nd—eagle’s splendor: The main drawback of this spell is its limited duration, which makes it useful mainly for those all-important first impressions.
2nd—invisibility: By far the most important spell in a stealthy scoundrel’s arsenal, invisibility lets you concentrate on moving soundlessly while remaining comfortably concealed behind a veil of magic.
2nd—knock: This is an immensely valuable spell for infiltration early in the arcane scoundrel’s career. If you have enough skill points to master Open Lock, though, choose invisibility instead.

3rd—gaseous form: Good for infiltration, escape, and stealth, this spell lets you perform the important activities of a dungeon-exploring scoundrel.
3rd—glibness: This spell helps you talk your way out of or into almost any situation.
3rd—nondetection: Even the stealthiest scoundrel can be spotted with the aid of magic. This spell helps even out things a little.

4th—dimension door: This is the ultimate entry and escape spell. Unlike teleport, you can use it safely even when in a place for the first time.
4th—greater invisibility: If a little invisibility is good, a lot is better. Launch those sneak attacks without fear of blowing your cover.
4th—voice of the dragon (Spell Compendium): The skill bonuses and the suggestion effect are incredibly useful.

5th—dominate person: No need to kill or even trick a guard when you can simply tell him what to do.
5th—mislead: This spell lasts just long enough to get you out of a dangerous situation.
5th—symbol of sleep: If you fear guards discovering that you passed by a certain area, ward it with this excellent nonlethal deterrent.

6th—antimagic field: This spell is the easiest way to negate a magic trap and render other magical defenses useless.
6th—mislead: All the benefits of invisibility plus a built-in distraction.
6th—veil: If you can’t go it alone, bring the appropriate backup under appropriate cover.

7th—ethereal jaunt: Walls? What walls? The spell also grants the benefit of invisibility.
7th—greater luminous assassin (PH II): Though this is a risky spell to cast (you can be caught at any time), the assassin it creates is a very potent distraction.
7th—teleport object: Reaching the treasure is the easy part. Getting out with the treasure is more difficult. Use this spell to send it somewhere secure (or at least remote).

8th—ghostform (Complete Arcane): Gain all the advantages of being incorporeal to scout or launch devastating surprise attacks.
8th—greater celerity (PH II): Whether in a desperate fight after being caught or attempting a time-consuming act when time is running low, greater celerity grants you an immediate edge. The drawback (being dazed for a round) might mean your doom, however, so use this spell carefully.
8th—mind blank: While useful for you, this spell actually favors allies who are less able to bluff their way through an evening’s social gathering.

9th—etherealness: This spell gives the benefit of ethereal jaunt, plus it lasts longer and you can bring backup.
9th—time stop: For those situations when you just need a few seconds to get away.
9th—wish: If you want to do it, do it!


Least Invocations

Beguiling Influence: Gain bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.
Dark One's Own Luck: Gain a luck bonus on one type of saves.
Darkness: Use darkness as the spell.
Entropic Warding: Deflect incoming ranged attacks, leave no trail, and prevent being tracked by scent.
Leaps and Bounds: Gain bonus on Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks.
Magic Insight: Detect magical auras, identify magic items DM.81
Miasmic Cloud: Create a cloud of mist that grants concealment and fatigues those who enter.
See the Unseen: Gain see invisibility as the spell and darkvision.
Spiderwalk: Gain spider climb as the spell and you are immune to webs.

Lesser Invocations

Charm: Cause a single creature to regard you as a friend.
Curse of Despair: Curse one creature as the bestow curse spell, or hinder their attacks.
Enthralling Voice: Make nearby creatures fascinated.
Flee the Scene: Use short-range dimension door as the spell, and leave behind a major image.
Humanoid Shape: Take the form of any humanoid creature.
Voidsense: Gain blindsense 30 feet.
Voracious Dispelling: Use dispel magic as the spell, causing damage to creatures whose effects are dispelled.
Walk Unseen: Use invisibility (self only) as the spell.
Wall of Gloom: Use wall of gloom as the spell.

Greater Invocations

Chilling Tentacles: Use Evard's black tentacles as the spell, and deal extra cold damage to creatures in the area.
Devour Magic: Use targeted greater dispel magic with a touch and gain temporary hit points based on the level of spells successfully dispelled.
Enervating Shadow: Gain total concealment in dark areas and impose a Strength penalty on adjacent living creatures.
Perilous Veil: Use veil as the spell; anyone succeeding on Will save to negate the illusion takes damage.

Dark Invocations

Impenetrable Barrier: You can conjure a wall of force as the spell with this invocation. The wall is black and blocks sight of all kind, You can only have one impenetrable barrier in effect at a time, If you use the invocation a second time before the duration of the first expires, the previous wall disappears. If your barrier is destroyed (such as by a rod of cancellation, a sphere of annihilation, a disintegrate spell, or a Mordenkainen's disjunction spell), you take 1d10 points of damage.
Path of Shadow: Use shadow walk as the spell and speed up natural healing.
Retributive Invisibility: Use greater invisibility as the spell (self only) that deals damage in a burst if dispelled.
Word of Changing: Use baleful polymorph as the spell, but the effect could become permanent.

LordErebus12
2014-09-22, 10:40 PM
been trying to compile a list together for invocations, as well as spells that could be converted over.

I was thinking about a class feature to create invisible walls and other types of barriers (maybe something like mage armor or shield).

Edit:


It's a scoundrel, so read Complete Scoundrel sourcebook. Also worth mention is beguiler and Complete Adventurer.

BAB
HD
Saves (which are good, which are bad)
Spell Advancement (Divine/Arcane)(Existing class comparison)
Psionics? Y/N
Maneuvers? Y/N
Invocations? Y/N
Essentia? Y/N
Tricks? Y/N
Sneak Attack? Y/N
What are some existing archetypes with similar abilities to your goal?
What tier do you want your class to be?

Keep in mind that your class:
Has to inspire YOU to play it in a game.
Is seen by you that other people would pragmatically use it in their games.
If designed for players be designed for fun, players don't want to play NPC classes.

Some shortcuts to save you a LOT of time:
Always look for references, whether it be source or homebrew, can you find, google, forumsearchfunction classes or concepts similar to what you are making?
Would this class be better as an ACF or a small tweak to an existing class? Why not?
Whatever imperfections the mechanics leave out fluff can often fill in, unless you are going to do something very silly like spend years fixing a huge class system like ozodrin :smallwink:

I like the idea of psionics, but dont know how to incorporate it well.

Hanuman
2014-09-23, 12:47 AM
For masks flavor, I really like Djinn's Chameleon, or Kanachi's Dimensional Conduit, but I like.. change... :smallamused:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?100597-Anything-You-Can-Do-The-Chameleon-Updated!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255782-The-Dimensional-Conduit-3-5-Base-Class-PEACH-%93why-limit-yourself-quot

Eno Remnant
2014-09-23, 02:59 AM
1st - Harlequin’s Mask (Su):
As long as a harlequin’s face is painted, masked, or adorned in the manner of a harlequin or other comedic figure, he functions as if under an undetectable alignment spell. At 9th level, the harlequin becomes immune to compulsion effects. At 15th level, the harlequin is also immune to fear effects.

3rd - Laugh It Off (Su):
It is very difficult to affect a harlequin with various effects, such as curses and transformations. Whenever a harlequin has spent at least one round as the victim of an effect that could be removed by a break enchantment effect, the effect is removed.

20th - Eternal Trickster (Su):
The Harlequin reaches the pinnacle of being an enigma. While meeting the requirements of his Harlequin’s Mask ability, he does not age, knowledge checks used to identify the harlequin automatically fail and is under the effects of a mind blank effect.

My concern is that these class features are almost directly from the link Just to Browse posted. While drawing inspiration from them is always a good idea, this class needs to be your own, and you should rework and refluff them to more directly serve what you're trying to achieve.

I would also like to point out that Harlequin's Mask almost completely covers Laugh It Off. The only point of Harlequin's Mask in the other homebrew after Laugh It Off was because it had a progression in the class. Without that progression, it's more or less useless as-is.

Hanuman
2014-09-23, 06:40 AM
Your class certainly does not need to be your own, but if heavily borrowing from another's work you should certainly make it clear that you are doing so.

LordErebus12
2014-09-23, 10:14 PM
Your class certainly does not need to be your own, but if heavily borrowing from another's work you should certainly make it clear that you are doing so.

Ive removed the class features from the class. working up something to replace it.

Debihuman
2014-09-24, 09:14 AM
If it functions as a feat then be honest and give the bonus as a bonus feat. See Mobility. if instead you mean Enhanced Mobility then use that instead.

See duelist:
Enhanced Mobility (Ex): When wearing no armor and not using a shield, a duelist gains an additional +4 bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity caused when she moves out of a threatened square.

Debby

LordErebus12
2014-09-24, 05:03 PM
If it functions as a feat then be honest and give the bonus as a bonus feat. See Mobility. if instead you mean Enhanced Mobility then use that instead.

See duelist:
Enhanced Mobility (Ex): When wearing no armor and not using a shield, a duelist gains an additional +4 bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity caused when she moves out of a threatened square.

Debby

I didn't mean Enhanced Mobility, although I was aware of that ability. I love the duelist class.

All the feats are now bonus feats.

Debihuman
2014-09-24, 07:40 PM
How many spells a day does a Harlequin get?

Debby

LordErebus12
2014-09-25, 05:40 AM
How many spells a day does a Harlequin get?

Debby

none, its an invocation based class. the spells on the class list are examples of spells that could be worked into invocations.