Karsites and Infusions

[Yogibear41]

Can Karsites from tome of magic use Infusions?

[Psyren]

Can Karsites from tome of magic use Infusions?

Yes - because even though they "follow all the rules for spells," infusions are explicitly "neither arcane nor divine." Thus they skate right past the Karsite's Spellcasting Inability quality.

[Sian]

RAW they can, but you could certainly make a compelling argument that RAI they shouldn't

[Phelix-Mu]

Do the magic-psionic transparency and incarnum-magic transparency make those areas off-limits to karsites? I plead general ignorance of how that stricture of theirs works.

[Psyren]

RAW they can, but you could certainly make a compelling argument that RAI they shouldn't

You could also argue that the loophole was crafted intentionally. After all, ToM came out after ECS, plus Karsites are explicitly allowed and intended to be able to use magic items.


Do the magic-psionic transparency and incarnum-magic transparency make those areas off-limits to karsites? I plead general ignorance of how that stricture of theirs works.

No and no. Psionic Karsites are explicitly allowed (and even if it weren't, transparency doesn't extend to racials.) They're also explicitly allowed to use SLAs. Yes, this means you can be a Karsite Warlock too.

[Phelix-Mu]

No and no. Psionic Karsites are explicitly allowed (and even if it weren't, transparency doesn't extend to racials.) They're also explicitly allowed to use SLAs. Yes, this means you can be a Karsite Warlock too.

I can't decide if Karsite warlock is just weird or the win of flavor.

[Thurbane]

I'm quite fond of Karsites as Dragon Shamans or Dragonfire Adepts.

[Mr Adventurer]

Sadly the LA makes them terrible at all of it.

[Psyren]

Sadly the LA makes them terrible at all of it.

It's just +2, you can buy it off.

[Mr Adventurer]

That's a completely optional rule. Anecdotally I have never seen it in play.

[torrasque666]

Quick question, since it says that Karsites retain all human traits except as noted below "blah blah blah" does that mean that they also retain the Huamn's bonus feat?

And honestly, +2 LA isn't all that bad. Its still workable even without buyoff. Psionics still get 9ths(or 6ths in the case of PsyWars). Dragon Shamans don't max out their breath weapon, but still get max auras. Same situation with DFAs. Its rare that missing two levels prevents you from playing to the full ability of the class.

[Mr Adventurer]

Who cares about 20th, in the course of playing up to it you'll consistently be a whole spell level behind in terms of ability. An actual Gish can outperform you by swapping their lost spellcasting for actual class features and BAB, saves, and hit points over the benefits of being Karsite - which as levels go up become increasingly marginal (while at lower levels that +2 is proportionately more of your actual capability).

[Psyren]

Quick question, since it says that Karsites retain all human traits except as noted below "blah blah blah" does that mean that they also retain the Huamn's bonus feat?

Yes, and the bonus skill point as well. Note the Karsite Warrior's statblock on pg. 84 accounts for it too, giving him 2 feats at level 1. (Toughness + Ability Focus)


Who cares about 20th, in the course of playing up to it you'll consistently be a whole spell level behind in terms of ability. An actual Gish can outperform you by swapping their lost spellcasting for actual class features and BAB, saves, and hit points over the benefits of being Karsite - which as levels go up become increasingly marginal (while at lower levels that +2 is proportionately more of your actual capability).

That sounds like a good reason to use the rule then, no?

[Mr Adventurer]

I lose ten points for overusing the word "actual".


That sounds like a good reason to use the rule then, no?
Maybe, but that's irrelevant really, isn't it?

[Psyren]

Maybe, but that's irrelevant really, isn't it?

Optional or not, it's still a 1st-party rule in the D&D game. So bringing it up with LA +1 and LA +2 races is a legitimate recommendation.

[Mr Adventurer]

Optional or not, it's still a 1st-party rule in the D&D game. So bringing it up with LA +1 and LA +2 races is a legitimate recommendation.

Sure. That is different from saying 'you can just buy it off', though, which presupposes it.

[Yogibear41]

Considering LA is widely considered a horrible way to balance things, I don't see why the majority of people wouldn't use Buy-Off.

But your point that not everyone uses it is also completely valid.

[Psyren]

Sure. That is different from saying 'you can just buy it off', though, which presupposes it.

Of course I'm presupposing it, all my 3.5 groups used it. Just as you presupposed it wasn't available because yours didn't.

[Mr Adventurer]

Of course I'm presupposing it, all my 3.5 groups used it. Just as you presupposed it wasn't available because yours didn't.

Yeah. But it's an optional rule, not a default rule.

[Psyren]

Yeah. But it's an optional rule, not a default rule.

So is playing a Karsite in the first place. Default schmefault.

[Mr Adventurer]

So is playing a Karsite in the first place. Default schmefault.

Category error.