So I got the MM and...

[Falka]

Barely any rules for monster PCs. It's a shame, I hoped for some general guidelines. There are some exceptions, such as Werefolk and Vampires (so Twilight fans must be happy), and Half-Dragons (which are explained in a way that allow Dragonborn Half-Dragon to make some sense... kind of).

For instance, I hoped for a Cambion PC option, and instead we got a pretty drawing (I was scared about the art after I saw the Intellect Devourer - WotC sure made effort in showing the crappiest art in their teasers-. Overall, the MM art is pretty good) and a statblock.

Well, this is one of the most complete MM's I've seen so far, lorewise. They even specify how orcs mate. Yep. But the lack of PC monster options makes me boohoo just a little bit.

[Aramis Rhett]

Consult the DM on what you would like to play, and adjust abilities to be more in-line with core races. Or of you are the DM, make up your own rules. Nothing more hilarious than a PC Beholder Ranger using eyestalks to fire a bow.

[Falka]

But I didn't bought the MM to make up my own rules. I think it's something that's lacking in the product.

Oh, and Erinyes changed again. They got their wings back and now wear a full plate.

[Aramis Rhett]

Can't really fault them on not having rules for most things players would want to use as their race. If they did, the MM would be more than Elminster would want to read.

[Cambrian]

I wouldn't be surprised if the rules (or more likely guidelines) for those things come in the DMG.

There are a lot of different options that could become available in the DMG-- in general it appears several elements some recent editions included in the MM and PHB have been shifted to the DMG.

[pwykersotz]

But I didn't bought the MM to make up my own rules. I think it's something that's lacking in the product.

Oh, and Erinyes changed again. They got their wings back and now wear a full plate.

That's how they were in 3.5, did they change for 4e?

[Falka]

That's how they were in 3.5, did they change for 4e?

Erinyes in 3.5 actually were something like BDSM angels. They're now soldiers. During 4e, they were changed into Greek Erinyes (which I think it was pretty cool) since Succubi aligned with the Devil side after Asmodeus' Ascension.

Now that it seems that Succubi serve both sides (lorewise, they are manipulative demons, which makes sense that they are not fully Chaotic but not Lawful either), I guess they wanted to cater the 3.5 crowd and "reverse" the Erinyes. I'm not really sure about it since it kind of blasts the lore for a few novels and I ended up liking the new aesthetics they had. Oh, well.

[AuraTwilight]

I'm pretty sure these rules are going to be in the DMG, considering the table of contents has been leaked.

[rlc]

I'm pretty sure these rules are going to be in the DMG, considering the table of contents has been leaked.

This. We've known this for awhile.

[HugeC]

My google-fu has failed me, have you a link to the DMG ToC?

[MustacheFart]

They even specify how orcs mate.

Do tell...

[rlc]

Probably something along the lines of "viciously and lengthy"

[Socko525]

My google-fu has failed me, have you a link to the DMG ToC?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?365354-Leaks-from-the-DMG

[CyberThread]

My google-fu has failed me, have you a link to the DMG ToC?
highlights:
costs to construct building
costs for hirelings
downtime activites (most of which have a 20% chance of going to jail for 5d6 days)
domains (kingdom builder rules)
using miniatures!!!
travel hazards
diseases
poisons
madness
traps
puzzles
modifying races
creating new races
monsters as characters
modifying classes

optional rules:
training to level up
trading in magic items
flanking
attacking cover
morale
action points
called shots
alternate skill systems (13th age backgrounds are an option)
vitality
spell points
skill points
single strike (1 attack roll, cumulative damage)
second wind
rest variants
proficiency dice
massive damage
marking
facing
cleaving through the horde
automatic success
chases
cantrip slots
action points (again?)
group initiative
weapon speed
passive initiative
gestalt characters

[MustacheFart]

highlights:
costs to construct building
costs for hirelings
downtime activites (most of which have a 20% chance of going to jail for 5d6 days)
domains (kingdom builder rules)
using miniatures!!!
travel hazards
diseases
poisons
madness
traps
puzzles
modifying races
creating new races
monsters as characters
modifying classes

optional rules:
training to level up
trading in magic items
flanking
attacking cover
morale
action points
called shots
alternate skill systems (13th age backgrounds are an option)
vitality
spell points
skill points
single strike (1 attack roll, cumulative damage)
second wind
rest variants
proficiency dice
massive damage
marking
facing
cleaving through the horde
automatic success
chases
cantrip slots
action points (again?)
group initiative
weapon speed
passive initiative
gestalt characters

Wow. There's a lot of good sh*t in there. I kept saying, oh nice! oh nice! I think I am most interested in poisons and trading in magic items.

[Steel Mirror]

highlights:
<NERDGASM>Holy crap, thanks for listing that! Now I know I'm going to have something nice for Christmas!

[HugeC]

Awesome, thanks guys!

[archaeo]

I mean, point of order, obryn just said it was a list leaked to him by an unnamed source, and this was a month ago. It was not billed as a table of contents, just a big list of stuff that will probably be in the DMG.

[Totema]

highlights:
costs to construct building
costs for hirelings
downtime activites (most of which have a 20% chance of going to jail for 5d6 days)
domains (kingdom builder rules)
using miniatures!!!
travel hazards
diseases
poisons
madness
traps
puzzles
modifying races
creating new races
monsters as characters
modifying classes

optional rules:
training to level up
trading in magic items
flanking
attacking cover
morale
action points
called shots
alternate skill systems (13th age backgrounds are an option)
vitality
spell points
skill points
single strike (1 attack roll, cumulative damage)
second wind
rest variants
proficiency dice
massive damage
marking
facing
cleaving through the horde
automatic success
chases
cantrip slots
action points (again?)
group initiative
weapon speed
passive initiative
gestalt characters

Chase rules! Yay! Now I don't need to use my clunkily ported version of some 3.5 chase rules that I found a while ago! I'm very excited!

[Mr.Moron]

I'm not heartbroken. I've not had to deal with a great many cases of Special Snowflake Syndrome from players (though I will admit to having subjected a poor GM to it years ago), but better nothing to encourage it in the first place.

[hamishspence]

During 4e, they were changed into Greek Erinyes (which I think it was pretty cool) since Succubi aligned with the Devil side after Asmodeus' Ascension.

In 4E's Demonomicon, Incubi are succubi who came with Graz'zt to the Abyss when he left the Nine Hells - and were transformed. The implication was that normal succubi are devils, and have always been so, ever since Asmodeus and his celestial allies were transformed when he killed his master.

In 5E Succubi and Incubi are the same creature, which can change forms - they're NE - and possibly an "independent faction of fiends".

[Falka]

In 4E's Demonomicon, Incubi are succubi who came with Graz'zt to the Abyss when he left the Nine Hells - and were transformed. The implication was that normal succubi are devils, and have always been so, ever since Asmodeus and his celestial allies were transformed when he killed his master.

In 5E Succubi and Incubi are the same creature, which can change forms - they're NE - and possibly an "independent faction of fiends".

In 3e, succubi were tanari (demons), not devils, and several 4e novels (Brimstone Angels) refer to succubi as demons that decided to acknowledge Asmodeus' rule after he Ascended to godhood, since he was the winner of the Blood War. Erinyes were transformed into Greek furies and ruled over succubi.

Succubus supposedly due to this, developed a dual nature. They have a Lawful, manipulative side tempered by Asmodeus, but they are originally tanari, so they have demon impulses and a strong chaotic side.

Rohini's descriptions show how as a succubus, she struggled to be Lawful despite having these urges. I think this is why they settled succubi as being NE in 5e.

[hamishspence]

several 4e novels (Brimstone Angels) refer to succubi as demons that decided to acknowledge Asmodeus' rule after he Ascended to godhood, since he was the winner of the Blood War.

That's interesting, I've never read those. Doesn't seem very consistent with Demonomicon.