Opinions on the Warlock?

[Feint's End]

So I'll be starting my first D&D next campaign soon and a friend declared interest into playing a Warlock. He says they are kind of underpowered though and I wanted to hear your opinions / professional analysis on this. His argument is they have too few spellslots, their invocations mostly suck (especially in combat) and they scale very poorly.

So how do Warlocks compare to the other classes? Do they work well from 1-20? What is the "best" (as in most effective) way to play a Warlock?

[Totema]

"kind of underpowered"

Pffffthahahaha!

As of now, Warlock/Sorcerer is considered the best blaster in the game, thanks to Eldritch Blast, Hex, and the ability to gain tons of spell slots back on short rests. Taking warlock all the way through isn't a bad idea either (though their capstone is a little weak) and they are quite, quite strong overall.

[PersonMan]

Well, Warlocks are Tier 4 and have a few issues:

-Eldritch Blast doesn't do very good damage.
-Invocations are very limited, and getting the good Shape/Infusion ones robs you of most out-of-combat or non-blasting options.
-2+Int skill points means you won't be doing much in that department either.

On the other hand, they have all-day damage, don't need to worry about running out of spells and can be helpful in almost any combat (if only as a bit of additional damage).

[Feint's End]

"kind of underpowered"

Pffffthahahaha!

As of now, Warlock/Sorcerer is considered the best blaster in the game, thanks to Eldritch Blast, Hex, and the ability to gain tons of spell slots back on short rests. Taking warlock all the way through isn't a bad idea either (though their capstone is a little weak) and they are quite, quite strong overall.

Care to elaborate? This all sounds promising but it would be great if you could give me some specifics. Like which Invocations are worth it (singleclass) and how the Warlock meaningfully contributes to a combat/social encounters without any sorceror levels.

On a sidenote how does the Sorceror/Warlock combination work? How many levels each.

[koscum]

Well, Warlocks are Tier 4 and have a few issues:

-Eldritch Blast doesn't do very good damage.
-Invocations are very limited, and getting the good Shape/Infusion ones robs you of most out-of-combat or non-blasting options.
-2+Int skill points means you won't be doing much in that department either.

On the other hand, they have all-day damage, don't need to worry about running out of spells and can be helpful in almost any combat (if only as a bit of additional damage).
Mate, this is 5e forum section, not 3.5e.



Care to elaborate? This all sounds promising but it would be great if you could give me some specifics. Like which Invocations are worth it (singleclass) and how the Warlock meaningfully contributes to a combat/social encounters without any sorceror levels.

On a sidenote how does the Sorceror/Warlock combination work? How many levels each.
CHA mod to damage is pretty much a must for any Warlock.
Armour of Shadows is a pretty solid early choice if you don't have access to good equipment or your group is very tight on resources, but should imho be traded for something better further down the line.
Pact improvements are pretty much a must; Book of Ancient Secrets is what makes Pact of the Tome so awesome.
Eldritch Spear is all right, but most people fall for the "Imma snipe mah foe from outer space" when it comes to range increments, totally forgetting about making successful Perception checks first + the fact that most of the combat typically occurs at the distances of under 50m.
One with Shadows also smells like a bait 'cause you are only invisible while standing still. Pretty good for ambush, though.
Sign of Ill Omen is too awesome to miss out on. Bestow Curse is something that can WRECK strong foes if they fail a save.
Witch Sight is situational. It's "much OP, nerf Irelia" if the campaign has shapechangers, or just good if you have foes with any kind of invisibility. The downside is that you have to be within 30ft., which can be a little bit too close for comfort sometimes.
Eldritch Sight is a good one, but if you already have Book of Ancient Secrets, you can probably already cast it as a ritual (if you can afford 10 minutes to cast, of course).
Devil's Sight is another bait. Sure, that Darkness + Devil's Sight combo is awesome, but you're totally gimping the rest of your party with it.
Beguiling Influence is something you had to plan for, which means that you shouldn't be reading this :3. Good if you need access to as many skill as you can (and want these two) + actually have enough breathing room in character building to take it. Lvl4+ start: good, lvl1 start: wouldn't recommend it.
Eyes of the Rune Keeper depends on your campaign setting and DM. Value ranges from OP as <beep> to shiet-tier.
Gaze of Two Minds is an interesting one if you're lvl14 Warlock with The Great Old One Pact: perfect spy.
Other invocations that grant at-will or 1/long rest spells are good fillers, but should really not be taken into consideration as primary choices. Their value is situational, but they are a nice thing to have. Slow is good.

Don't forget that you may swap out one invocation for another one every time you gain a level as a Warlock (except first, of course).

[Uldric]

Care to elaborate? This all sounds promising but it would be great if you could give me some specifics. Like which Invocations are worth it (singleclass) and how the Warlock meaningfully contributes to a combat/social encounters without any sorceror levels.

On a sidenote how does the Sorceror/Warlock combination work? How many levels each.

Taking the Agonizing Blast Innvocation at level 2 (along with the Hex spell) gives the Warlock some of the best sustained damage in the game. The fiend pact gives you lots of Blaster-y spells, like Burning Hands, Scorching Burst and Fireball, While the Fey and Great Old One packs are more controllers.

In social situations, only the Bard and possibly a Rogue with Expertise in social skills makes a better party face. The Warlock will have top notch Charisma and have access to Deception and Intimidation through his/her class. He/She can pick up Persuasion from a Background or a racial skill (Human Variant and Half Elf both making excellent Warlock races). Also Friends is an excellent cantrip for interrogations, though I wouldn't use it on townsfolk too much.

As a DM, you have a little bit of control over how powerful the Warlock will be. If the party takes short rests after every combat the Warlock will blow every one else out of the water in combat. If there are fewer opportunities to rest the Warlock, while still strong, won't be as dominant.

As far as Sorcerer multiclassing Warlock 2/Sorcerer+ or Sorcerer 3/Warlock+ are probably the strongest to but almost any combination with at least 2 levels of Warlock (for Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blasts) and Sorcerer 3 (for Flexible Casting and Quicken Metamagic) is good.

[Theodoxus]

...and the ability to gain tons of spell slots back on short rests. I never realized 2 was "tons".

[Feint's End]

Thank you two ... that clears things up a bit.

So Warlock (singleclass) could be said to be middle of the boat. Not as good as full caster but definitely viable. I'll show this thread to my friend

[EvilAnagram]

Thank you two ... that clears things up a bit.

So Warlock (singleclass) could be said to be middle of the boat. Not as good as full caster but definitely viable. I'll show this thread to my friend

Well, Warlock (singleclass) won't be as versatile as a full caster at level 20, but they'll be great at consistently dealing tons of damage with some great skills and secondary abilities to boot.

[Fwiffo86]

While I disagree with weighing a class based almost entirely on its combat merits, I agree with the majority of the things said in this thread. The Warlock is very entertaining, and always can find a use to the group in and out of combat.

[Person_Man]

5E Warlock's best abilities are tucked away in his spell list. Go read Eldritch Blast, Armor of Agathys, Hex, etc, remembering that Cantrips are at-will and his other spell slots can be restored with a Short Rest. (Every other spellcaster other then the Monk needs a Long Rest). Its an awesome class, assuming your DM lets you take a Short Rest once in a while.

[koscum]

Also, minor telepathy at level 1; what more could you possibly want? :D

[Fwiffo86]

Also, minor telepathy at level 1; what more could you possibly want? :D

"Great Tharizdun grants me the ability to send my thoughts to you little miss. You think that wooden walls and a door can stop my power? There is no where you can run. No one that can protect you. The chained god whispers your dirty secrets to me. I will drag them into the light and expose you!"

Actual game quote from our Warlock using telepathy and silently torturing the prisoner while eating his dinner on the floor above.

[BW022]

So I'll be starting my first D&D next campaign soon and a friend declared interest into playing a Warlock. He says they are kind of underpowered though and I wanted to hear your opinions / professional analysis on this. His argument is they have too few spellslots, their invocations mostly suck (especially in combat) and they scale very poorly.


He is making the mistake of thinking of the warlock as a wizard. It isn't. The class won't be blasting away with spells round after round.

The class has light armor and a D8 for hit points. Like a rogue, monk, or bard... it has the ability to stay in combat in necessary. It can take hits and it can avoid them without having to use spells such as mage armor.

Eldritch blast does more damage than any other ranged weapon or cantrip in the game. d10 force damage (+charisma if you take agonizing blast at 2nd-level), with multiple blasts at higher levels. This is easily as much ranged damage than a ranger or martial archer (factoring in archery style), or any class in a straight-out ranged fight.

For spell slots, you have to look at the key difference for warlocks -- their spell slots replenish after a short rest. In a typical day, most groups will rest for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Meaning, you typically have all your full spell slots every combat. Obviously in wave attacks or dungeon crawls... its better being a wizard or sorcerer.

And yes... the invocations and pacts are powerful.
* Chain effectively gives you a flying, invisible or shapeshifting creature with to scout, spy, carry messages, guard duty, etc. At lower-levels it is sufficiently powerful in combat. With a bit of intelligent play... they can be highly effective. Cast darkness on the imp.

* Pact effectively means you are as good in melee as any other class, other than specialized martials. You can use any weapon (reach, two-handed, etc.) and get multiple attacks. A reach weapon plus spider climb or fly could be extremely deadly.

* Tomb gives you massive versatility. By 5th-level, you can pick up virtually any ritual. Alarm, find familiar, comprehend languages, detect magic, speak with animals, silence, water breathing, etc., etc. As good as any wizard, with the advantage of being able to cast non-wizard rituals (such as speak with animals). Out of combat, you are pretty much the jack-of-all spell trades.

And many of the invocations are powerful. Devil's sight is massively powerful... especially with the darkness spell. Disguise self at will is also extremely powerful. Fiendish vigor is free hit points at will. One with shadows is extremely powerful for stealthy types.



So how do Warlocks compare to the other classes? Do they work well from 1-20? What is the "best" (as in most effective) way to play a Warlock?

They are fine in terms of power-level. They are not primarily casters. IMO, it works better if you think of yourself as a ranged (or melee with a specific build) skirmish type who uses spells sparingly to aid yourself.

[squashmaster]

They are fine in terms of power-level. They are not primarily casters. IMO, it works better if you think of yourself as a ranged (or melee with a specific build) skirmish type who uses spells sparingly to aid yourself.

Eh, I'd say they're comparable to certain Wizard schools or the Sorcerer depending on which patron you have. They'll never be as strong in any one situation since so fewer slots, but their overall usefulness due to the short rest mechanic and diversity in abilities makes them a well good enough caster in groups without a sorc or wizard, and I think they're really the strongest in a group in addition to a sorc or wizard. They're only a tier below sorc or wizard at most.

[Yagyujubei]

honestly I think they suffer from too few spell slots. Yes Eldritch blast can do some of the best damage in the game very easily at most levels, but aside from that and some very good at-will invocations you're options are very limited. I think it would be fixed personally by scaling the casting slots a bit sooner than they are. 2 slot max until level 11 seems a bit steep, and I feel like granting the third slot at 7 or 8, and the 4th at 15 gives you more options a bit sooner without being overpowered at all.

looking at it realistically, 90% of warlocks will take devil's sight and agonizing blast/thirsting blade, 90% will also slot one or more of the spells hex, armor of agathys, and darkness most of the time. that means that as far as invocations you're left with 3 more by level 10(one will likely be mage armor), which will likely include another EB supporter if your a blastlock so you'll have maybe 2 of the at will invocations?

so at level 10 (which will take months and months of play to reach in all likelyhood) you'll have 4 cantrips, realistically 1 spell slot (since 1 will VERY likely be taken by hex) to accommodate your 10 spells known, and 2 MAYBE 3 at will or daily powers like levitate, or spider climb, and 3 situational but good patron powers. I mean, as a pact blade you can't even run hex/AoA/Darkness simultaneously for one encounter(say a boss) of feeling super powerful.

now there are exceptions to this (tome pact rituals for example) but it still seems like a limited toolset when compared to other casters (like a wizard who has 15 daily spell slots by now).

I'm in no way saying theyre weak because they aren't. I just feel like the number of tools at their disposal are limited more than I personally would like.

[Surrealistik]

Devil's Sight is another bait. Sure, that Darkness + Devil's Sight combo is awesome, but you're totally gimping the rest of your party with it.

Totally untrue, rocking this combo in two separate campaigns; has not been a material issue once; a 15 foot radius is not that big. I can only ever see this being an issue in especially cramped areas.

[numerek]

honestly I think they suffer from too few spell slots. Yes Eldritch blast can do some of the best damage in the game very easily at most levels, but aside from that and some very good at-will invocations you're options are very limited. I think it would be fixed personally by scaling the casting slots a bit sooner than they are. 2 slot max until level 11 seems a bit steep, and I feel like granting the third slot at 7 or 8, and the 4th at 15 gives you more options a bit sooner without being overpowered at all.

looking at it realistically, 90% of warlocks will take devil's sight and agonizing blast/thirsting blade, 90% will also slot one or more of the spells hex, armor of agathys, and darkness most of the time. that means that as far as invocations you're left with 3 more by level 10(one will likely be mage armor), which will likely include another EB supporter if your a blastlock so you'll have maybe 2 of the at will invocations?

so at level 10 (which will take months and months of play to reach in all likelyhood) you'll have 4 cantrips, realistically 1 spell slot (since 1 will VERY likely be taken by hex) to accommodate your 10 spells known, and 2 MAYBE 3 at will or daily powers like levitate, or spider climb, and 3 situational but good patron powers. I mean, as a pact blade you can't even run hex/AoA/Darkness simultaneously for one encounter(say a boss) of feeling super powerful.

now there are exceptions to this (tome pact rituals for example) but it still seems like a limited toolset when compared to other casters (like a wizard who has 15 daily spell slots by now).


At 10th level (and 9th) you are casting hex as a 5th level spell so it has a duration of 24 hours and at level 5 you are casting hex as a 3rd level spell giving it an 8 hour duration., so you can wake up cast it on some squirrel or bug and kill it and immediately rest for breakfast and it doesn't take up any of your slots, the same goes for any spell with a longer than one hour duration, you can cast them before you short rest and they are still in effect after. There are also several spell that will target more people or do more damage because they are cast at 5th.

mage armor is 1 ac point better than studded leather (also lighter and available if people take your stuff) and if 90% are taking devil's sight and darkness as you claim 1 ac point isn't going to matter much.

Of the wizard's 15 spell slots only 2 are 5th level and they can use their daily to get one of them back. I don't see a reason that a party can't try and take a short rest anytime they want, if there is some time critical thing maybe, but just that there is something around that could wander on to them is fine the short rest gets interrupted and they try again no worse off than if they had not tried to short rest beside maybe a lost attempt to get surprise, though the party could be in ambush positions.

[MustacheFart]

Warlock is the one class I wish I had decided to play in my current game. I am currently working on multiclassing so I can have more fun with my current character. I am about 99% sure I could just play a straight warlock and have a ball the entire time. I can't say that for a lot of classes. They seem extremely well-rounded and equally seem to be potent in the hands of an intelligent player.

[Rummy]

Also, if you have a wizard or lore bard, offer to bake them pies if they prepare/snag Rope Use. Most of the time avoiding detection is all that it takes to get a short rest.

[Yagyujubei]

At 10th level (and 9th) you are casting hex as a 5th level spell so it has a duration of 24 hours and at level 5 you are casting hex as a 3rd level spell giving it an 8 hour duration., so you can wake up cast it on some squirrel or bug and kill it and immediately rest for breakfast and it doesn't take up any of your slots, the same goes for any spell with a longer than one hour duration, you can cast them before you short rest and they are still in effect after. There are also several spell that will target more people or do more damage because they are cast at 5th.

mage armor is 1 ac point better than studded leather (also lighter and available if people take your stuff) and if 90% are taking devil's sight and darkness as you claim 1 ac point isn't going to matter much.

Of the wizard's 15 spell slots only 2 are 5th level and they can use their daily to get one of them back. I don't see a reason that a party can't try and take a short rest anytime they want, if there is some time critical thing maybe, but just that there is something around that could wander on to them is fine the short rest gets interrupted and they try again no worse off than if they had not tried to short rest beside maybe a lost attempt to get surprise, though the party could be in ambush positions.

are you positive that's how it works? I thought you lost all spell effects upon resting. also, I could see DM's shooting down that strategy with hex, I know the rules are grey as to how it's transferred, but alot of DM's would probably shoot down the "well it's just hanging around in limbo until i cast it on another target" reasoning. you may have to resort to carrying a supply of creatures to keep cursed and kill whenever you know a battle is coming up to transfer it immediately to another target.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

are you positive that's how it works? I thought you lost all spell effects upon resting. also, I could see DM's shooting down that strategy with hex, I know the rules are grey as to how it's transferred, but alot of DM's would probably shoot down the "well it's just hanging around in limbo until i cast it on another target" reasoning. you may have to resort to carrying a supply of creatures to keep cursed and kill whenever you know a battle is coming up to transfer it immediately to another target.

I think you are correct that a caster can't gain the benefits of a rest while maintaining concentration on a spell, since "during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds." Maintaining concentration is notably absent from that list of activities, though a DM might rule that concentrating isn't inherently strenuous.
The text of Hex allows for it to sit in limbo after a target is killed. "If the target drops to 0 hp before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature". Since it states a subsequent turn and not specifically the next turn, it seems reasonable that you could use a bonus action to re-target the hex at any time you can act before the spell ends.

[numerek]

it seems pretty silly to give warlocks a class specific spell that can last 24 hours if it can't be concentrated on thru a short rest. If the warlock is in battle such that there is no 60 minute interlude for an entire 24 hours it is highly unlikely that said warlock would be able to maintain concentration that long (or maybe if the fighting is easy enough that he doesn't take much damage requiring concentration checks maybe he/she could just sit down and rest for an hour during the fighting, most combatants would probably leave him/her alone and concentrate there efforts on the ones doing stuff to them.) Otherwise the only benefit to forgoing the benefits of a short rest to maintain the concentration is whomever is hexed would have disadvantage on one ability's checks for that hour and however long it would take to re-hex them, which is an extremely weak benefit considering all that the warlock would be giving up. Also RAW there is nothing saying that you can not maintain concentration thru a short rest, yes I understand the arguments that they think concentration is more strenuous that reading and other things listed but as I said RAW there is nothing saying that concentration is more strenuous than the other activities listed. A caster can maintain concentration while casting an 8th level spell with an hour casting time (antipathy/sympathy) so I really can't see how its that strenuous.(I only briefly glanced at the spell list and found that example there maybe an even more extreme example)

And as far as the DM might not allow it argument, that argument can be applied to anything. "I'm the DM and in my game players don't get any class abilities". Until something comes out and says otherwise there is RAW and RAI and I believe I make a case for both in this post.

[Ashrym]

So I'll be starting my first D&D next campaign soon and a friend declared interest into playing a Warlock. He says they are kind of underpowered though and I wanted to hear your opinions / professional analysis on this. His argument is they have too few spellslots, their invocations mostly suck (especially in combat) and they scale very poorly.

So how do Warlocks compare to the other classes? Do they work well from 1-20? What is the "best" (as in most effective) way to play a Warlock?Warlocks aren't underpowered because they focus on at-will abilities instead of spell slots and generally are the better at-will casters. The spells known and spell slots fill in burst or utility and renew on a short rest so they shine in any quest that has 2 or more short rests and no opportunity for long rests, or in quests with no opportunity for resting at all and a long adventuring day.

Typically what happens is all casters resort to cantrips for damage and eldritch blast is the best damage cantrip because of the actual damage die, damage type, and ability to split it into multiple attacks. Adding in agonizing blast and the CHA ability modifier to damage (cantrips don't add that unless a feature enable is) and where other casters get either no ability modifier added or have a feature to add it warlocks get to add it to each bolt for a multiplicative bonus. They also always cast their spells in the highest slot so while other casters are rationing spells and spending the bulk of them on lower level spells the warlock spells at higher level are all 5th level and above so the shine moments are a bit different.

They have boons, pact magic (spell slots), arcanum (high level spells), and invocations so a high level warlock might have 3 or 4 fifth level spells per short rest, arcanum, a high level boon (like hurl through hell), and strong at will cantrips plus at will spell abilities like arcane eye, levitate, and alter self at will. Those would eat through spell slots pretty fast if a sorcerer or wizard were trying to keep up.

Where they might not shine is in adventuring days that aren't allowing the short rest mechanic and other casters aren't running out of spell slots before the end of the day, so it depends a lot on the type of adventure and campaign, really.


A general breakdown of arcane spell casters would be:

Sorcerer -- Most limited spells known, strong burst ability with sorcerer points and metamagic. Sorcery points can also recover spell slots in a pinch.

Warlock -- More spells known than the sorcerer, more restricted in their use due to limit slots that rely on short rest mechanics but similar high level ability and a lot of 5th level slots when it comes down to it. Best at-will ability and lasting long days due to at-will and short rest mechanics.

Wizard -- Somewhere in between sorcerer and warlock when it comes to at-will versus burst. Evokers have good burst, for example, and arcane renew gives some slot recovery on a short rest. Widest selection of spells available and allows spells swapping on long rests. Ritual caster and can cast rituals from the spell book when other classes need to prepare them. Tome pact warlocks can take the book of ancient secrets invocation to replicate the wizard ritual caster ability but also include rituals from other spell lists.

Bard -- Bards don't have the damage potential of any of the other arcane spell casters, and do not have any spell recovery short of a long rest. They do not manipulate their spells or cantrips like other arcane casters. Bards are more like arcane clerics as a support role and the spell list is very versatile. They know more spells than sorcerers or warlocks, and about 1/3 of their spells known can come from any spell list using magical secrets gained as they level so they have a lot of choice in build direct in spells. For example, an 18 level bard could have mass heal and meteor swarm if he so chose, giving him options that are out of reach of other spell casters even if he doesn't have bonuses to casting or recovering those spells. What he has instead is the bardic inspiration ability that starts to renew on a short rest and gains in ability as the bard levels for really nice bonuses at key moments. Bards also have dirty good skill abilities that rival high level rogues and it's debatable which is better. The best approach to stretching out bard spells is to not cast them and use a skill when a skill will do. Valor bards can only inspire others while lore bards can use cutting words on others and later on peerless skill on themselves. Bards generally heal and manipulate instead of outright damage but can use damage spells.


If you want a warlock I would say go for it. Just keep in mind you are looking at your at-will abilities as your main focus and your spell slots as peak moment / utility moments. I cannot recommend tome pact more for the caster style.

[Hydra98]

I have a build in mind and what would be the best way to implement it.
Archfey, chain pact, sniper elderich blast? and would it work?

[Yagyujubei]

it seems pretty silly to give warlocks a class specific spell that can last 24 hours if it can't be concentrated on thru a short rest. If the warlock is in battle such that there is no 60 minute interlude for an entire 24 hours it is highly unlikely that said warlock would be able to maintain concentration that long (or maybe if the fighting is easy enough that he doesn't take much damage requiring concentration checks maybe he/she could just sit down and rest for an hour during the fighting, most combatants would probably leave him/her alone and concentrate there efforts on the ones doing stuff to them.) Otherwise the only benefit to forgoing the benefits of a short rest to maintain the concentration is whomever is hexed would have disadvantage on one ability's checks for that hour and however long it would take to re-hex them, which is an extremely weak benefit considering all that the warlock would be giving up. Also RAW there is nothing saying that you can not maintain concentration thru a short rest, yes I understand the arguments that they think concentration is more strenuous that reading and other things listed but as I said RAW there is nothing saying that concentration is more strenuous than the other activities listed. A caster can maintain concentration while casting an 8th level spell with an hour casting time (antipathy/sympathy) so I really can't see how its that strenuous.(I only briefly glanced at the spell list and found that example there maybe an even more extreme example)

And as far as the DM might not allow it argument, that argument can be applied to anything. "I'm the DM and in my game players don't get any class abilities". Until something comes out and says otherwise there is RAW and RAI and I believe I make a case for both in this post.

if this was their intended use for hex then I feel like they just would have made it an at will like warlocks many other at will options. why even have it take up a spell slot in the first place if you can get around it by just resting after casting it once?

[numerek]

if this was their intended use for hex then I feel like they just would have made it an at will like warlocks many other at will options. why even have it take up a spell slot in the first place if you can get around it by just resting after casting it once?

because its concentration, if it was at will and you lose concentration you would just cast it again as a bonus action.

So you can cast it and short rest but if you then lose concentration then you have to either use one of your spell slots or you have to short rest (potentially twice) again. I would say it is quite a bit different than at will.

[Aramis Rhett]

I have a build in mind and what would be the best way to implement it.
Archfey, chain pact, sniper elderich blast? and would it work?

Archfey is good for running around with some good crowd control skills. The expanded spells have good choices for control, as well as some good defensive and utility.
Pact of the Chain seems to me (as in my opinion only) a very versatile, but not worth using as your Pact Boon, tool. At the table I play at, our DM is horrible about getting pets/familiars/hirelings killed. The only good choice I see for a familiar is the imp. Flying stealth is a quality to die for in a scout. But on the same note, to use it to it's full potential would be very risky at the table I play at.
Sniper EB is pretty cool, in theory. If you are out in the wide open yonder, a 1,200 foot range is possible. But I personally have never been in a situation where the max distance anyone I was engaged in combat with was further than MAYBE 100 feet (DM absolutely LOVES to pit us in relatively small spaces).
Hope this helps you out. But if the fluff supports the build, rock it out.

[Daishain]

I have a build in mind and what would be the best way to implement it.
Archfey, chain pact, sniper elderich blast? and would it work?
Archfey is good

I don't consider pact of the chain to be as useful as the tome, which greatly expands your utility. Especially since the tome if upgraded will let you get a familiar anyways. (without the unique chain perks, but still quite useful)

sniper EB is freaking awesome if you can pull it off. Unfortunately, cases where it will come in handy are pretty rare. Most combat occurs well within the standard EB's 120 foot range. It might still be worth the invocation though, even if only for that one awesome occasion the DM has the BBEG taunt you from atop his tower, less than 10 feet from an edge...

[Surrealistik]

Archfey is good

I don't consider pact of the chain to be as useful as the tome, which greatly expands your utility. Especially since the tome if upgraded will let you get a familiar anyways. (without the unique chain perks, but still quite useful)

sniper EB is freaking awesome if you can pull it off. Unfortunately, cases where it will come in handy are pretty rare. Most combat occurs well within the standard EB's 120 foot range. It might still be worth the invocation though, even if only for that one awesome occasion the DM has the BBEG taunt you from atop his tower, less than 10 feet from an edge...

Sniper EB is indispensable because of the ability to ignore cover (including that imposed by your allies), not the range.

The pick of Tome vs Chain depends on the length of your campaign. If you don't expect to get 7+ Warlock levels by the time it ends, Pact of Chain for sure.

[SliceandDiceKid]

if this was their intended use for hex then I feel like they just would have made it an at will like warlocks many other at will options. why even have it take up a spell slot in the first place if you can get around it by just resting after casting it once?

Use a spell slot (alotting a precious resource) and it takes your concentration. The rules around hex are actually pretty well thought out. It's definitely one of the most powerful spells warlock has access to.

[Yagyujubei]

Use a spell slot (alotting a precious resource) and it takes your concentration. The rules around hex are actually pretty well thought out. It's definitely one of the most powerful spells warlock has access to.

did you read the rest of the posts I was responding to? I feel like you took what i said out of context...

[stitchlipped]

"Great Tharizdun grants me the ability to send my thoughts to you little miss. You think that wooden walls and a door can stop my power? There is no where you can run. No one that can protect you. The chained god whispers your dirty secrets to me. I will drag them into the light and expose you!"

Actual game quote from our Warlock using telepathy and silently torturing the prisoner while eating his dinner on the floor above.

Personally, I think the telepathy ability is incredibly useful, it's arguably one of the Warlock's best features.

Amazing dialogue from the player... however, while I unfortunately don't have the PHB with me right now to check, I'm pretty sure this ability doesn't work through walls etc - eg. you can only communicate telepathically with someone you can see. This came up in my game and my warlock player told me that it couldn't after checking the rules.

Can anyone confirm?

[Aramis Rhett]

Personally, I think the telepathy ability is incredibly useful, it's arguably one of the Warlock's best features.

Amazing dialogue from the player... however, while I unfortunately don't have the PHB with me right now to check, I'm pretty sure this ability doesn't work through walls etc - eg. you can only communicate telepathically with someone you can see. This came up in my game and my warlock player told me that it couldn't after checking the rules.

Can anyone confirm?

Directly from PHB

A w a k e n e d M in d
Starting at 1st level, your alien knowledge gives you the ability to touch the minds of other creatures. You can communicate telepathically with any creature you can see within 30 feet of you. You don’t need to share a language with the creature for it to understand your telepathic utterances, but the creature must be able to understand at least one language.

So yes, not possible to use through walls. A crack in the floor or an illusion is another matter however.

[Yagyujubei]

so basically what happened was this:

warlock: I wil drag them into the light and expose you! heh...heheh...MUAHAHAHAHAHA

*prisoner is asleep*

hilarious

[Fwiffo86]

Thanks for Signaturing that.

Yes, he had to have her in visual range. Which he did using the various holes in the floor from the proceeding battle.

[stitchlipped]

Directly from PHB

A w a k e n e d M in d
Starting at 1st level, your alien knowledge gives you the ability to touch the minds of other creatures. You can communicate telepathically with any creature you can see within 30 feet of you. You don’t need to share a language with the creature for it to understand your telepathic utterances, but the creature must be able to understand at least one language.

So yes, not possible to use through walls. A crack in the floor or an illusion is another matter however.

Thanks!


Thanks for Signaturing that.

Yes, he had to have her in visual range. Which he did using the various holes in the floor from the proceeding battle.

Gotcha, in which case it is both cool and game legal. Kudos to the player!

[Aramis Rhett]

Thanks for Signaturing that.

Yes, he had to have her in visual range. Which he did using the various holes in the floor from the proceeding battle.

My pleasure to sig it. When I first read it, I my face hurt from laughing. I got bummed when I looked up the LOS bit, but holes in the floor from previous combat makes it priceless. Ingenious thought by the PC to make use of a damaged floor.
I personally want to use the telepathy behind a silent image spell on a hostile creature and have it freak out, to the point of making its companions tie it up and gag it for being so paranoid/annoying. Effectively remove an enemy from combat.

[Fwiffo86]

My pleasure to sig it. When I first read it, I my face hurt from laughing. I got bummed when I looked up the LOS bit, but holes in the floor from previous combat makes it priceless. Ingenious thought by the PC to make use of a damaged floor.
I personally want to use the telepathy behind a silent image spell on a hostile creature and have it freak out, to the point of making its companions tie it up and gag it for being so paranoid/annoying. Effectively remove an enemy from combat.

I would think Phantasmal Force to be more effective here. Especially since only one creature is targeted with it. Leave out the "voice" and substitute telepathy.

More Warlock dialogue:

"You!? What about you?... You're going straight to some dark writhing pseudopod infested level of the abyss, and when you do... I... I will drag your agonized and flayed soul back here... for your first introduction to suffering and servitude."

Bolded sections to be read aloud with intensity
We keep a log of the best lines used during our games.