My tweaks to the Ranger

[Malifice]

I propose the following changes to the Ranger in my campaign. Looking for thoughs:


Gain advantage on attack rolls against favored enemies.

Well selected favored enemies come about around 20% of the time. Granting advantage about 1/5 encounters is balanced IMO. Also gives more reason to stick with the class over the full 20 levels (due to gaining more favored enemies as one advances in level).


Hunters Mark is now a class feature (gained at 2nd level) and not a spell. It functions as the spell (bonus action at will that doesn’t require concentration) however it can only be used on favored enemies. At 9th level the damage increases to 1d8. At 17th level it no longer requires a bonus action to mark a target. At 20th level, the damage increases to 2d6. This final ability replaces the Foe Slayer ability normally gained at 20th level.

Big boost to the rangers DPR against favored enemies. He now slightly edges out a Fighter when fighting his favored enemies. He can also use swift quiver (or other concentration spells) and hunters mark simultaneously.

Even with the bonus against favored enemies, a fully rested fighter battlemaster can outdamage him quite easily when attacking a favored enemy.


At 13th level, gain Expertise as a Bard.

Enhanced skill monkey role for more out of combat versatility.

Thoughts?

[Theodoxus]

You're putting a lot of emphasis on favored enemy... are you completely removing HM from their spell list, or providing it both as a native ability and a spell to use on non-FE targets? If it still exists as a spell, that's fine. If you're removing it completely, then this gimps the ranger too much.

I mean in general. Since this is for your campaign, and you decide what your players face, you can have the ranger fight his FE as often or rarely as you'd like. But I would certainly come to some understanding with the player in question before going this route.

Basically, if the guy wants to have all his FE be outsiders because he wants to have adventures in the Planes, and you're planning a run of the mill dungeon crawl campaign and the only outsider he's likely to see is a summoned elemental... that won't be much fun :)

FE is one of the most meta-gamey aspects in all of D&D. You pick a monster type and basically guarantee you'll be seeing a lot of them, or never see them (depending on the level of dickishness of the DM). Since it's at level 1, and thus before you even know what types of creatures are populating the world in sufficient numbers to study extensively - it has to be something you metagame to be remotely useful.

Having said that, mechanically, the options are pretty strong.

[Malifice]

You're putting a lot of emphasis on favored enemy...

I am. Im aiming for consistently high DPR against favored enemies. Damage that matches or slightly surpases the fighter. It gives the Ranger a niche combat role without invalidating the fighter.


are you completely removing HM from their spell list, or providing it both as a native ability and a spell to use on non-FE targets? If it still exists as a spell, that's fine. If you're removing it completely, then this gimps the ranger too much.

Removed completely. Now rangers can mark any favored enemy at will all day long. Damage increases also, and it doesnt require concentration or slots. (freeing up more spells for utility)

This also allows other buff spells to be up while the ranger uses HM. Like swift quiver.


I mean in general. Since this is for your campaign, and you decide what your players face, you can have the ranger fight his FE as often or rarely as you'd like. But I would certainly come to some understanding with the player in question before going this route.

He ends up with 3 favored enemies out of 13 (plus humanoids).

When not fighting his FE, he only loses the bonus d6 on each attack. Even TWF with extra attack thats only 10 DPR. Still gains all the other options (Colossus strike etc). When fighting his FE, he gains advantage on the attack rolls (increasing his DPR) and the damage increases to d8 (making him keep up with the Paladin when fighting FE) and finally increases to 2d6 per attack at 20th.

Importantly he can now concentrate on swift quiver gaining 4 bow attacks a round. Fighter 3/ Ranger 17 with swift quiver, action surge (6 ranged attacks) and either extra dice for battlemaster or champion for the increased crit range to take advantage of the advanatge and bonus FE/HM dice looks very strong.

A vanilla Fighter has better DPR in most circumstances unless fighting a FE, where the Ranger (or Ranger/ Fighter) will edge him out.


Having said that, mechanically, the options are pretty strong.

They need to be IMO. The Ranger is the Monk of this edition.

[Stan]

Removing hunter's mark from the spell list to apply it only to favored enemies makes the Ranger weaker overall as they no longer have the option to apply it to other creatures (though it depends on how often favored enemies come up).

Advantage on favored enemies is ok - it feels like rangers are a bit behind but have enough flexibility that they don't need much more than this boost.

[Malifice]

Removing hunter's mark from the spell list to apply it only to favored enemies makes the Ranger weaker overall as they no longer have the option to apply it to other creatures (though it depends on how often favored enemies come up).

But it also gives the ranger more spell slots, and something to do with his concentration slot.

I could include a homebrew spell (concentration) akin to PF's instant enemy to counter this. Id make it higher level than 1st though.


Advantage on favored enemies is ok - it feels like rangers are a bit behind but have enough flexibility that they don't need much more than this boost.

Yeah thats sticking for sure.

[Fwiffo86]

I question the wisdom of converting a spell to at will, especially with a limiter such as Favored enemies. Which by definition is a small percentage of the total enemies a group will fight. The logic is sound, but the recovery of a spell slot (or two) does not equal the sheer loss of enemies HM can be used on.

Advantage on attacks for Favored enemies does seem to be needed, but I wonder if it needs to replace one of the abilities, or if the favored enemy bonus can be translated to work like the Archivist's Lore ability, granting the party a bonus of some sort after the Ranger spends an action describing its weaknesses or such.

[TomPliss]

Advantage on attacks for Favored enemies does seem to be neededI would say pretty much the contrary.

Depending on the level of optimization of the rest of the party, a ranger would feel OP when fighting his FE, or useless when not fighting them.

[Malifice]

Advantage on attacks for Favored enemies does seem to be needed, but I wonder if it needs to replace one of the abilities, or if the favored enemy bonus can be translated to work like the Archivist's Lore ability, granting the party a bonus of some sort after the Ranger spends an action describing its weaknesses or such.

Turning the Ranger into more of a leader type role.

I see the Ranger as a striker type primarily I guess.

[Malifice]

I would say pretty much the contrary.

Depending on the level of optimization of the rest of the party, a ranger would feel OP when fighting his FE, or useless when not fighting them.

Paladins of Vengance get advantage 1/ short rest. Barbarians get it at will with the drawback that enemies get it back. Easy for Fighters to get it at will via battlemaster manouvers tripping enemies.

Granting it to rangers but limiting it to FE sounds like a (minimum) fair bump to the Ranger to just keep him on par.

[Fwiffo86]

Turning the Ranger into more of a leader type role.

I see the Ranger as a striker type primarily I guess.

Perfectly fair. I was thinking more, master of the hunt sort of thinking, since the 4e job breakdown doesn't exist anymore. As far as a striker primarily I can see that, yes. Except that suggests ignoring a sizable amount of the class that has nothing to do with combat.

[Ellington]

I'm not a huge fan of the 5E ranger but I think I would much rather play it than your version. The version you put forward has a very narrow niche and overspecialisation is something 5E in general tried to get rid of. I was honestly even kind of bummed they even kept the favored enemy mechanic at all, but that's another matter. If you want to buff the favored enemy mechanic I'd probably just give the ranger it's level 20 capstone ability at level 1, not even kidding. If you did that and replaced the capstone with something that's actually worthwhile the class would instantly look a lot better. There's also the issue with Beast Master being an awful archetype but I'm not sure minor tweaks could help with that.

[Malifice]

I'm not a huge fan of the 5E ranger but I think I would much rather play it than your version.

The only thing it loses is Hunters Mark against non FE.

The key to making a striker is high (but situational) DPR.

Maybe a different version of marking?

[MeeposFire]

The only thing it loses is Hunters Mark against non FE.

The key to making a striker is high (but situational) DPR.

Maybe a different version of marking?

The trick is that generally when you have a situational striker ability it tends to be a situation under your control. For instance rogues needed to get combat advantage, sorcerers needed to cast an arcane spell, and rangers had to spend a minor action to get their hunters mark on their target.

FE is not in the players control in terms of tactics. It relies on the DM to allow them to use it at all.

From what I have seen on this forum mot of the good remarks I have seen about the ranger is that it is NOT based heavily on FE.

[Baveboi]

Overall it seems balanced, but in a weird direction. Too specific for my tastes, I think. It sounds a lot like an archetype, a Master Hunter kinda deal. If you put some more features against favored enemies I can easily see this flying as a Ranger homebrew Archetype of very high quality.

For one I prefer rangers to not be as specialized as they were in editions past since someone might want to play a traveler instead of a guardian of a certain forest or hill, and giving more choice to the players is always something to consider.

[squashmaster]

I was just looking at the ranger earlier trying to come up with fixes for it.

Really, it isn't that bad of a class, the only problems it has are action economy and possibly damage in later levels.

Making Hunter's Mark a class feature is a good idea.

My one tweak I thought of, that is very small but could be strong enough, is make it to where, the Extra Attack feature at 5th level, allows the option, instead of two weapon attacks, making one weapon attack as a bonus action if you use your main action to cast a spell. This allows you to use a situational but probably highly useful spell that Rangers have access to, but still be able to do damage in the round like any good martial class should. I can't remember exactly if the optional animal attack for extra attack counts as a bonus action, but if not, I'd say you could also use the feature to cast a spell then command your animal to attack as a bonus action.