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Haldir
2014-09-22, 12:22 PM
A few of my players recently asked me to re-hash my old sword-and-sails pirates campaign Trade Winds, which I haven't run in nigh-on seven years now.

Being a Historian, I immediately dove into research on the subject itself, so as to try and make this re-run of the game even better. Some of the most common conceptions of pirates are clearly wrong-- piracy as a practice was not really so chaotic and renegade, but more of a military adaptation by a group of technologically similar but politically fragmented populations who just realized the wealth of a globalized economy.

So, Piracy isn't just running around and stealing, it's war. It's a method for one political unit to gain advantages over another. Easy enough, we add a couple of political systems and give them Navies, put the PC's on one side and everything will come together with some structure.

A GMs job is never done, however, and now I needed plot. A goal and obstacles. Going back to the books, I find ports were often sacked, forts were often built, and natives often conquered almost exclusively for the goal of controlling access to rich areas. The rich spices of India and the waterways that lead toward it were fought over in more wars than I care to count. Further, my knowledge of American sea exploration recalls the search for the northwest passage, and my knowledge of American piracy focuses primarily on the Caribbean because it serves as a nexus-point for the infamous "trade winds." Essentially, the Atlantic has a prevailing wind system that leads from the European coast south to the African coast, which then has a prevailing west wind which will bring you into Central America.

Piracy happens based on Geography. Keeping this in mind, I ran with the whole idea of a northwest passage, but undiscovered by my nation of greedy scoundrels, and reminiscent of the Straits of Gibraltar- connecting a massive ocean with a massive inland sea, full of new and wondrous places to plunder. Perfect bait, what pirate wouldn't want that?

So I built a little civilization with Naval power and forts and magic equal to my players which sits at the mouth of the Strait. Seems like taking the fort and the strait would be a great first arc for a long-running game! A good mix of sea and land encounters are available, and there'll be plenty of plunder for the whole damned fleet.

Now might be a good time to talk about my players, because that's where I am coming up short (shocking, I know). These guys are all really good at the functional part of game- fluent in the rules, builds planned well in advance, specialized builds....

These guys are really bad at the more abstract features of the game- optimization is non-existent, the builds all perform the same task, and their only battle tactic seems to be to charge. There is next to no use of scouting or larger strategy in their actions, and I often find myself punishing them for very obvious errors, and doing it enough makes me feel terrible about how I am running the game.

I have not given them a level appropriate encounter since the first game, where I almost wiped them, and they still seem to take forever to deal with enemies of vastly lower level and numbers.

So now I am in a pickle- as a military historian I like to think that I have a very good grasp of how such a conflict might be conducted, but it is becoming increasingly clear that my players aren't going to be able to take the reins for the invaders and realistically win, so I am just giving them missions as orders.

The defenders are essentially my responsibility anyway, but now I feel as if I am a conducting a war against myself. I have always strongly believed that there should be a chance for failure in any tabletop adventure, but now I am not so sure how to balance my weak players with the actual demands of situation I've created.

As far as I can tell, they are all having a great time and I expect they'll enjoy the rest of the game very much, even if I continue in the command role for a while.

draken50
2014-09-22, 03:52 PM
Perhaps, you could provide the players with a strategist NPC, a character that they can trust to provide the strategic information that you'd like them to have, as well as provide direction to the fleet/ship. The strategist could of course still be completely deferential to the players in regards to where the ship goes and the like, but would free them up to fire cannons or swing from rigging or whatever when the fight starts.

This frees up the players to being a sort of surprise or shock troop. They may take a few men, or go alone to sneak into forts and the like, or make daring raids into towns to take the governor hostage, and steal his treasures. Their victories can be impressive to their men, or demoralizing to the enemy and through some measure affect the overall battle.

Basically, in most RPGs the player's become a bit superhuman, so they can leave the regular guys to do things the historical way, and back them up with chandelier swinging and the like. (assuming that's how the system works.) Hopefully being able to describe the actions being taken by the pirates and the defenders scratches the historical itch, while the players aren't having to learn all the things you're interested in and know.

As to system mastery, well... they evidently don't have it. Not much to do about that, so you may use a more narrative combat structure and the like to speed things up a bit. Weaker enemies could also demonstrate the kind of tactics you'd like them to use. A "Show, don't tell" kind of thing.

Broken Crown
2014-09-22, 08:02 PM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds as though you're saying that you think your players don't have the tactical skill to beat the encounter you've created.

That's fine. If the strait is strategically important, the fortress won't be going anywhere (although it may change hands, depending on how active the other factions are in this conflict). If they've got a ship, the party will have a lot of mobility, so there's no reason they can't go after easier targets for a while. You can use this as an opportunity to train your players: Develop their skills, by pitting them against small encounters that encourage the use of sound tactics. That is to say, the right approach will make the encounter much easier, and the right approach can be made obvious enough that one of the players is bound to see it. If they make bad decisions, the encounter should be tough enough that they probably won't win, but should be able to cut their losses and retreat, and think about what went wrong and how they might do better next time.

The big assault on the fortress will be waiting for them when they're ready.

Jay R
2014-09-23, 08:12 AM
If you wanted them to have a ship, you'd give them a ship.
If you wanted them to have a fleet, you'd give them a fleet.
If you wanted them to have a magical sword, you'd give them a magical sword.

But what you want them to have is information, both geographical and tactical. They will not figure it out on their own.

Conclusion: You must tell them.

It's that straightforward. They will not figure it out, so you have to tell them.

Possible methods include:

1. Have them overhear an enemy talk about the strategic importance of the position guarding the Northwest passage, and how impregnable their defenses aimed at the sea are.

2. Have them attempt it, get captured, and hear their drunk jailors talk about how stupid they were to charge into the fortified position.

3. Have their commander explain the importance of that position, and the inability to take it by force from the front, and give the PCs a mission to find some way to take it by stealth.

4. Have them rescue the last few survivors of an ill-fated attack on that position., The dying commander can tell them why they failed, and why any such attack failed. "... If we had only known how strong they were, we might have tried a land attack, or burning their fields, or ... "

The crucial fact is this: there are some geographical and tactical ideas you want the party to have. Right now, you're not giving them the information; you're directing their actions based on the information. Try finding some way to actually give them the information you want them to have.

It may not work. But the only way to get them to use the information that they don't currently have is to give it to them.

Nobot
2014-09-23, 08:53 AM
A few of my players recently asked me to re-hash my old sword-and-sails pirates campaign Trade Winds, which I haven't run in nigh-on seven years now.

(...)

As far as I can tell, they are all having a great time and I expect they'll enjoy the rest of the game very much, even if I continue in the command role for a while.

Sounds like a great campaign to me.

You could consider trying to adjust your expectations. I mean no offense, but some of the less enjoyable games I've played were those where the GM was trying to get the players to live up to his expectations. As a GM, I've made that mistake myself as well. It sounds like your passion for military history (great as it is) may become a burden to you and your players if you want them to be tactical geniuses, while they might want to just swing a cutlass around, yell 'yarrrr', and acquire parrots, even though that it not historically correct :smallsmile:

Just my two cents.

Vitruviansquid
2014-09-23, 09:21 AM
When my players are ignorant, I often tell them how something is usually done in the game world.

If, for example, my players are trying to fight a battle in hard terrain by just charging, I would say "well, your characters have probably been in enough fights that you'd recognize most battles in hard terrain aren't fought by two massed forces running at each other. Instead, both sides usually blah blah blah blah"

Another thing you might do is not think of the players' tactics as there being tactics that work and tactics that do not work. Instead, ask the players what they want to do, and then come up with one way in which this might backfire and one way in which this might succeed well. Depending on the system, you can have players make a relevant dice roll to see if their plan works or backfires, or you could have both apply. For example, if your players want to charge at an enemy in a fortified place, you could think their charge would give them a powerful advantage in initiative, but they would be up against prepared and well positioned defenders.

Haldir
2014-09-23, 03:34 PM
If you wanted them to have a ship, you'd give them a ship.
If you wanted them to have a fleet, you'd give them a fleet.
If you wanted them to have a magical sword, you'd give them a magical sword.

But what you want them to have is information, both geographical and tactical. They will not figure it out on their own.

-snip-

3. Have their commander explain the importance of that position, and the inability to take it by force from the front, and give the PCs a mission to find some way to take it by stealth.

This is exactly what I have been doing, but it hasn't necessarily felt like the ideal situation. I very much feel like they should be the arbiters of their own fates, but maybe that's just a GM philosophy of mine.



Another thing you might do is not think of the players' tactics as there being tactics that work and tactics that do not work. Instead, ask the players what they want to do, and then come up with one way in which this might backfire and one way in which this might succeed well. Depending on the system, you can have players make a relevant dice roll to see if their plan works or backfires, or you could have both apply. For example, if your players want to charge at an enemy in a fortified place, you could think their charge would give them a powerful advantage in initiative, but they would be up against prepared and well positioned defenders.

I suppose now is a good time to give a rough outline of our adventures (and a bit of setting) so far, because this is what I am trying to do:

(All 3.5 and Pathfinder allowed, no full casting classes, all spells and items subject to approval, but regular WBL.)

- An impromptu game, all I knew was that I had four pirates waiting for me at the usual gaming establishment. The adventure begins hanging from the underside of a gargantuan bird, which drops the party unceremoniously onto an enemy ship, their orders are to seize the vessel in tact, and are given an alchemical flare to signal when air support should return. An equal leveled two-handed fighter nearly wipes the Fighter and the Rogue, who are bogged down by an enemy noble and his Bard spells. They take four prisoners- two Paladins, the Noble Bard, and another soldier, all of whom are taken away when the birds return, and never seen again. The corpses are fed to the birds, who float easily in the water nearby, like very large ducks and consume their grisly meal happily. The party is joined by a novice Ranger. Rangers are members of the priestly caste, who consider the use and training of the birds a state secret and a religious experience simultaneously. This novice Ranger's animal companion is only partially grown, so he is not yet a true member of the elite. He must serve time with the lower-caste Naval and Armed Forces, as a sort of integration training.

The first half of our second session was conducted in the captains chambers of the captured vessel. An intricately drawn map was presented to the party (I actually drew it on the battlegrid) Rangers have been scouting the Straits and surrounding area quite extensively, and the officer who brought them the map is intimately familiar with enemy dispositions. Because the crew successfully captured the ship, the party was offered an opportunity to pick a mission suitable for the use of their new enemy vessel. They immediately suggest attacking the mountainous island that overlooks and creates a bay for the mainland. Supporting only one small fort, an even smaller town, and with only five vessels on the shore, the Island is geographically strategic, but not terribly threatening, certainly not enough to lose the element of surprise over. The Officer suggests a more lucrative and espionage oriented mission- pull the boat into the harbor, disguised as natives, and send a shore party to a certain tower where every other docked ship sends a shore party. The Officer says that they expect it is some kind of administration center for the Harbor. This building is likely to have many records on shipping traffic and Naval and personnel dispositions. The High Command is extremely interested in that sort of intel. The players agree to take the mission.

The second half of the second session goes well, the party murders the old lady receptionist, storms the harbormasters tower, and immediately charge into the upper level of the round tower. A powerful guard in armor duels the fighter while a pair of crossbowmen try to respond from the other end. The rogue dashes around the tower to catch the fleeing crossbowmen, and falls right into a pair of Paladins waiting around a corner to overwhelm the first enemy they see. They successfully put him on the ground and begin to murder him. He survives by playing dead, but the enemy was otherwise unprepared for an armed assault. The harbormaster and one of the archers are captured, as are the documents, and two of the members of the party escort them back to the boat.


Four party members remained on the shore. There are two fortress objectives, the large Castle overlooking the Strait is to the south of the harbor, and is the large and ultimate objective, but a smaller fort sits at the northernmost edge of the bay, which is the only way to use to winds and moor easily. The Rogue, in desperate need of healing, (None of them brought healing items. :smallsigh:) seeks out the local alchemist and proceeds to steal the entire supply of healing potions. The shopkeep, of course, notices this and begins calling for guards. My gallant pirates just decide that they are going to throw the man out of the way and leave, but a guard was very nearby in the crowded market, and engages in a battle with the fighter, while the alchemist unleashes a flamethrower on the party. A firefight ensues, and the alchemist escapes into the brewery, barely alive. A survivor who has heard them speak their foreign language has now escaped. The party grabs as much alchemical equipment as they can, and high tail it through a storm of guards and into a nearby restaurant. The Ranger suggests that they burn it to the ground, sneak trough the market, and into the northernmost fort/tower that defends the north end of the bay. This fort is strategically important and can be held by a small determined force, if cleared the High Command will almost certainly land reinforcements and the party will be greatly rewarded for the capture. The party Bard knows through the use of Comprehend Languages that the North Market Fort is held by a small family of nobles and a small garrison of professional soldiers. The restaurant burns, and the party splits up to rendezvous at a posterior gate, later on in the evening. Fortunately, their stealth checks are all good. The Bard sees an obviously important man at the end of a column of troops, riding a fabulously gilded chariot being pulled by a seven foot tall beast, dark furred, with the head of a goat and the body of a huge man. The fire has spread into the Bazaar as they use grapnels to scale the gate, killing the low-level gate guards, and reach an outer door of the Fort, that can be forced using disable device.

In this session they pull a Theon Greyjoy. About seven low level guards remain, an aged Paladin in a Temple, and two nobles, a young boy, an old lady, and a guard inside the tower. The Ranger takes a position in the second story of the tower. The Fighter gets tripped by a Noblemans whip, and the boy escapes to the yard. The Ranger waits for the boy to run across the yard and ends him with a well placed arrow. The Rogue also gets to the second story, and keenly hears the Noblewoman an the old woman sneaking by, invisibly, he strikes the old woman, but is suddenly assaulted by the invisible guard as well. The invisible noblewoman escapes as half the party subdues and captures the Nobleman bard and the other half kills the old woman and the guard. The old woman covered the noblewomans retreat with poisonous gas. Once she gets outside however, the Ranger is able to track her to a gatehouse. They kill the guards and the woman surrenders without a fight. They find 5 million gold pieces of worth of weapons and goods, including ballista, catapults, chariots, warbeasts and exclusive access to a docked war vessel. As well, a storeroom at the far end of the fort contains a second story, where twenty of the large goat creatures are chained.

They fire their flares, calling in air support. The Ranger warns them that this is a social gamble, as the use of these specific flares will alert the High Command, men and women who do not wish to be bothered unless there is a clear gain. The success of this mission and the spoils and accolades to follow depend on how impressed the Rangers are with the parties conquest- meaning the area needs to be kept completely clear of enemies. The Ranger takes a post at the top of the tower, the Rogue returns to the posterior gate where they entered and oils up the wall, making it more difficult to scale, the Bard goes to negoiate with the goatmen, and the Fighter begins tying his captured nobleman to a stake, right in front of the main gate. The noblewoman is left in the gatehouse, unchecked. The Rogue guards the bottom floor of the tower, which has several entrances, and the Fighter takes an armful of crossbows to the far north gate, where he sits atop and begins to load them all. The Bard begins patrolling the grounds.... all is quiet for a long time before... A Cry! From the tower. The nobleman on the stake is gone, and nobody saw anything. The Bard is the first to the scene, and spots fresh blood, but cannot track where they went. The party decides to try and hold all the entrances, keeping the Ranger up high to spot any trouble rather than running blindly through the grounds. A short time later, the Fighter notices that the North Gate is slowly starting to rise, he jumps down to the gatehouse and sees none other than his escaped Nobleman, cranking the wheel as fast as he can. A brief battle ensues, but the Fighter fails against Hideous Laughter, giving the nobleman enough time to completely open the gate as the Noblewoman- now astride a Goatman Chariot- escapes into the night. A second person who knows they are foreigners have escaped. The nobleman is recaptured, and another hour or so passes uneventfully- the fires are just now subsiding in the city- when a giant bird swoops into the fort carrying twenty heavily armed and armored soldiers, determined to hold this property. Three more lower level Rangers are brought in to hold the Fort. The party now has a choice- they have captured the market defenses, but the garrison and the Lord are still out fighting the fire, and the market will be sure to receive troop support from the other Forts. The Rangers intend to use the Fort to incite a pitched battle over the Market, hopefully drawing more resources out of the Castle that overlooks the Strait. The Rangers ask the party if they would like to take their OTHER captured warship and assault the enemy ships in the Bay, allowing the Armada unfettered access to the land, or if they would like to participate in the battle for the Market, which will determine the relative success of the landing. They chose the boats, and the session ended while they escorted the goatmen to the oars and got ready to cast off...