Looking for a template

[glitterbaby]

So I'm making an anthropomorphic tiger character that is convinced he's a rakshasa but, because he isn't evil, was stripped of his powers. I don't know why but recently I've been on a kick of deluded characters, they add a little pizzazz. The only thing is that this guy really sucks. Two RHD of animal type and one LA with just some ability scores to make up for it, sad stuff. My DM has ruled against LA buyoff so really what I'm looking to do now is try to get the most out of those two RHD as I can. Is there a template that anyone knows of that changes type to dragon/outsider or something along those lines for LA 0 or +1, preferably staying as low as we can. I know the draconic template gives a few bonuses and also switches animals to magical beasts for LA +1 and I was looking for something better. Thanks in advance for any help!

TLDR; Help finding an LA: 0, +1 that changes animal type to something better.

[lytokk]

There's always dragonborn, but its supposed to make you look much more draconic

[OldTrees1]

There's always dragonborn, but its supposed to make you look much more draconic

Doesn't change creature type AFAIK.

[Harlot]

Lesser Aasimar gives you Outsider and no LA. Plusses to wisdom and charisma, I think.
EDIT: Nonsense, thats a race not a template. Sorry.

[ezkajii]

Are you making an awakened tiger or an anthropomorphic tiger? Because the anthropomorphic template changes the type from animal to monstrous humanoid, which qualifies for a lot more templates.

[glitterbaby]

There's always dragonborn, but its supposed to make you look much more draconic

OldTrees is right, doesn't change type


Lesser Aasimar gives you Outsider and no LA. Plusses to wisdom and charisma, I think.

You're right as far as the racial bonuses it gives go but unfortunately I already have my race picked out and I'm just looking for a template. Of course if someone knows of a race other than anthropomorphic tiger that could fit my character concept, that could work too.

[glitterbaby]

Are you making an awakened tiger or an anthropomorphic tiger? Because the anthropomorphic template changes the type from animal to monstrous humanoid, which qualifies for a lot more templates.

I'm not extremely picky as long as I can be a bipedal tiger looking thing. I had originally asked about the anthropomorphic tiger but I guess I missed that they switch to monstrous humanoid, which is better than animal already.

[Harlot]

Homebrew OK? - this one is 'dragon as class, not as race', and it is actually fairly balanced. i've had fun with it.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dragonblooded_(3.5e_Class)

[Harlot]

Try to look at this list...
http://chet.kindredcircle.org/pdf/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf

[torrasque666]

Lesser Aasimar gives you Outsider and no LA. Plusses to wisdom and charisma, I think.
EDIT: Nonsense, thats a race not a template. Sorry.

Lesser Aasimar are Humanoid(Planetouched) anyway, not outsider. Player's Guide to Faerun calls it out actually. Page 191.

[glitterbaby]

Homebrew OK? - this one is 'dragon as class, not as race', and it is actually fairly balanced. i've had fun with it.

DM is usually ok with Homebrew but the class isn't really what I'm looking for.


Try to look at this list...
http://chet.kindredcircle.org/pdf/Dn...-Templates.pdf

There goes my afternoon...

[Segev]

You'll have to look it up to double-check me, but I think the Pseudonatural template in Complete Arcane makes them into Outsider hit dice.

[Daishain]

I'm not extremely picky as long as I can be a bipedal tiger looking thing. I had originally asked about the anthropomorphic tiger but I guess I missed that they switch to monstrous humanoid, which is better than animal already.

Why not just start with a normal Catfolk then? They come in tiger varieties and you lose that fiddly animal HD. Still have +1 LA, but some good abilities

[Harlot]

Lesser Aasimar are Humanoid(Planetouched) anyway, not outsider. Player's Guide to Faerun calls it out actually. Page 191.
Awesome: Absolute utter nonsense, then. Time for my nap!

[ShurikVch]

There is one template to make your tiger into outsider for no extra LA - Petitioner (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineMinions.htm#petitioners)
It allow 2 HD - just like your character
Since no LA mentioned, it stays unchanged
Feats and skills can be kept by Exceptional Petitioners rule
Text about the "template presented below is for NPCs, not player characters" should be promptly ignored, since it's copy-paste from Deities & Demigods, and Manual of the Planes with 3.5 update is more recent, and doesn't have such text
Planar Commitment may be negated via choosing correct plane. There is choice between three Evil-aligned planes (Abyss, Hades, and Barrens of Doom and Despair) and one Good-aligned (House of the Triad)

[glitterbaby]

Catfolk just don't really do it for me.


There is one template to make your tiger into outsider for no extra LA - Petitioner (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineMinions.htm#petitioners)
It allow 2 HD - just like your character
Since no LA mentioned, it stays unchanged
Feats and skills can be kept by Exceptional Petitioners rule
Text about the "template presented below is for NPCs, not player characters" should be promptly ignored, since it's copy-paste from Deities & Demigods, and Manual of the Planes with 3.5 update is more recent, and doesn't have such text
Planar Commitment may be negated via choosing correct plane. There is choice between three Evil-aligned planes (Abyss, Hades, and Barrens of Doom and Despair) and one Good-aligned (House of the Triad)

I like this, time to do some reading.

[nedz]

The allows you to break the template down into three separate levels. You won't get the Dragon type until you've taken all three levels (not that you ever have too), is the actual type change important ?

[glitterbaby]

The allows you to break the template down into three separate levels. You won't get the Dragon type until you've taken all three levels (not that you ever have too), is the actual type change important ?

Not particularly. I just wanted to get as much out of the RHD as I could, the guy would already be three casting levels behind (two RHD and LA +1 for anthropomorphic tiger).

[Urpriest]

Catfolk just don't really do it for me.



I like this, time to do some reading.

Unfortunately, the Petitioners who happen to have No Planar Commitment also don't look like Anthropomorphic Tigers.

[glitterbaby]

Also from what I (my DM) read, Petitioners cannot advance character levels. Unfortunate for sure.

[Jeff the Green]

As has been pointed out, Monstrous Humanoid RHD is pretty good at d8, full BAB, and good Reflex and Will.

What are you planning on doing? With pounce and improved grab, you could be an absolutely melee presence even with the annoying LA and RHD.

[ShurikVch]

Also from what I (my DM) read, Petitioners cannot advance character levels. Unfortunate for sure. Your DM is severely mistaken.
String "Advancement: None" matter only for NPC petitioner.
Since nothing in the RAW suggest petitioners incapable to get XP or class levels (like, say, Simulacrum), this string should be ignored for PC Petitioners

For example, book Monsters of Faerûn have number of monsters with line
Advancement:— Does it mean they are incapable to take class levels? :smallconfused:
And yet, number of them given playable LA in the 3.5 update: Baneguard: LA +3
Chosen One: LA +4
Darkenbeast: LA +5
Ghaunadan: LA +6
Gibberling: LA +1
Nyth: LA +10
Hairy Spider: LA +0
Sword Spider: LA +3
Beast of Xvim (Hell Hound): LA +4 (cohort)
Yuan-Ti, Tainted One: LA +2
One more time - "Advancement" line doesn't affect PCs!

[torrasque666]

It might have just been the DM's way of a soft ban on them, given that there is a grand total of 1 non-evil petitioner that can leave its plane. And several DM's don't like evil players.

[Thurbane]

Why not just start with a normal Catfolk then? They come in tiger varieties and you lose that fiddly animal HD. Still have +1 LA, but some good abilities

This is what I was going to suggest. Take a tiger-striped Catfolk, have him level up in Sorcerer, and get into the Fiend-blooded PrC that eventually gives you very fiendish/outsider-like qualities.

[ShurikVch]

It might have just been the DM's way of a soft ban on them, given that there is a grand total of 1 non-evil petitioner that can leave its plane. And several DM's don't like evil players. I think everybody knows "Always evil" actually mean just "Most of the time"
And since he's Exceptional Petitioner, he keep all memories of his previous life, alignment included
Who said he was evil in life? Remember adventure "Paladin in Hell"? Paladins shouldn't get in Hell, unless they are "of Tyranny"
(Also, bite of Molydeus turn you into petitioner of Abyss, but is it turn you Chaotic Evil as well?)

[torrasque666]

I think everybody knows "Always evil" actually mean just "Most of the time"
And since he's Exceptional Petitioner, he keep all memories of his previous life, alignment included
Who said he was evil in life? Remember adventure "Paladin in Hell"? Paladins shouldn't get in Hell, unless they are "of Tyranny"
(Also, bite of Molydeus turn you into petitioner of Abyss, but is it turn you Chaotic Evil as well?)

Always Evil = 99.99% of the time. The natural inclination is to be evil, though any intelligent creature can overcome its natural inclination. Outsiders though tend to be literal embodiments of something though. Outsiders such as demons, devils, and celestials tend to be literal embodiments of their alignment. So its more like 99.999999999999% of them follow it. At which point the only ones who overcome it are the special snowflakes(such as Eludecia, Fall-From-Grace, etc) and there are just as many DM's who dislike the special snowflake mindset.

Your "Paladin in Hell" example also falls flat as he was not there due to his own actions, but was forced there. And he still performed his duties as a Paladin while there. He maintained his Lawful Goodness. He was not a Petitioner.

The Molydeus example also falls as it A) kills you and B) turns you into something that specifically doesn't have any memory of its past life. And you'd be hard-pressed to sell a DM that the lowest of the low Abyssal petitioners would ever be considered as an Exceptional. I'm not even sure if something that is forced into a Petitioner's role would even be eligible. After all, why would you let something that was forced into your service retain its training? That would just be stupid.

[SimonMoon6]

Mulhorandi divine minion http://miniworld.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=2943&pid=19728&st=0&#entry19728

It's +1 LA (or +2 if you want more options). It changes humanoids and monstrous humanoids into outsiders. It doesn't give much more (fear immunity and a limited wildshape).

[ShurikVch]

Always Evil = 99.99% of the time. The natural inclination is to be evil, though any intelligent creature can overcome its natural inclination. Outsiders though tend to be literal embodiments of something though. Outsiders such as demons, devils, and celestials tend to be literal embodiments of their alignment. So its more like 99.999999999999% of them follow it. At which point the only ones who overcome it are the special snowflakes(such as Eludecia, Fall-From-Grace, etc) and there are just as many DM's who dislike the special snowflake mindset. You may think so, but simple math is says against you.
Planes have infinite amount of petitioners, so your 00,000000000001%, despite being much rarer, is infinite too


Your "Paladin in Hell" example also falls flat as he was not there due to his own actions, but was forced there. And he still performed his duties as a Paladin while there. He maintained his Lawful Goodness. He was not a Petitioner. He was dead and mourned. Creatures who can fight after their death (I mean, without resurrection or reincarnation), usually are petitioners or undead, and, since most of undead are evil or neutral, I suggest it was petitioner


The Molydeus example also falls as it A) kills you and B) turns you into something that specifically doesn't have any memory of its past life. And you'd be hard-pressed to sell a DM that the lowest of the low Abyssal petitioners would ever be considered as an Exceptional. I'm not even sure if something that is forced into a Petitioner's role would even be eligible. After all, why would you let something that was forced into your service retain its training? That would just be stupid. A)
Only a miracle or wish can reverse this transformation. Since no need to resurrection (or to retrieve victim from the Abyss) is mentioned, I dare to suggest victim wasn't dead in the first place, and transformed alive.
B) Prove it by RAW

[torrasque666]

He was dead and mourned. Creatures who can fight after their death (I mean, without resurrection or reincarnation), usually are petitioners or undead, and, since most of undead are evil or neutral, I suggest it was petitioner

It calls out that since his soul was condemned to Hell, that was why he could fight. Basically, his soul was already there. Additionally, you're using an AD&D adventure as an example? Really? One where petitioners wasn't thing yet?


A) Since no need to resurrection (or to retrieve victim from the Abyss) is mentioned, I dare to suggest victim wasn't dead in the first place, and transformed alive.
B) Prove it by RAW

A) It turns when it reaches Con 0. Con 0 means you die.

B) Without mutating fluff, Page 100 of the Manual of the planes. Otherwise, its under the Advanced Creature section of the Mane entry in the FC1
A mane only rarely retains shattered fragments of its memories as a mortal, yet those creatures are the most likely to ascend to higher forms of demonic life. In the most despicable and cruel of these cases, a mane can eventually rise to become a powerful tanar’ri, such as a molydeus or balor. Unless of course, you take the stance that everything outside of tables and charts as fluff.

[ShurikVch]

It calls out that since his soul was condemned to Hell, that was why he could fight. Basically, his soul was already there. By RAW, no such creature as "Soul". But FC2 have soul shells, which is a special kind of hellish petitioners.


Additionally, you're using an AD&D adventure as an example? Really? One where petitioners wasn't thing yet? Yes. Why not? Classics is classical. :smallcool:


A) It turns when it reaches Con 0. Con 0 means you die. Specific trumps general. You not die, you turn into mane.


B) Without mutating fluff, Page 100 of the Manual of the planes. Otherwise, its under the Advanced Creature section of the Mane entry in the FC1 Unless of course, you take the stance that everything outside of tables and charts as fluff. Once again, it's not about all of them, just most. There are petitioners who retain their memories. (One of the most famous examples was Orcus) And Exceptional Petitioner exception looks like it created exactly to work with this kind of situations. It's easy to believe to "all memories is gone", if Int is 3, and much harder if it 18+

Also, there is still one completely Good option. Why not to take it? :smallconfused:

[torrasque666]

By RAW, no such creature as "Soul". But FC2 have soul shells, which is a special kind of hellish petitioners.

Yes. Why not? Classics is classical. :smallcool:


Well, given that it was made before the topic of debate was published, and therefore has no references to the topic, its not really relevant now is it? It details how and why he was fighting and nowhere is he called a petitioner, thus he wasn't a petitioner(also, they didn't exist back then)



Once again, it's not about all of them, just most. There are petitioners who retain their memories. (One of the most famous examples was Orcus) And Exceptional Petitioner exception looks like it created exactly to work with this kind of situations. It's easy to believe to "all memories is gone", if Int is 3, and much harder if it 18+

Also, there is still one completely Good option. Why not to take it? :smallconfused:

It says they "may remember something of their previous selves." And then specifies that they "retain the feats and skills that they had in life". Thus, mechanically, the only thing they retain is their feats and skills. Says nothing about alignment, thus implying that if someone becomes one, say through a molydeus' bite, then yes. You gain the alignment of the creature you have become, and given that each plane has its own creature for its petitioners...