Making A 5e Paladin: Any Advice?

[newsman77]

Dear Fellow Gamers,

My first foray into 5th edition begins this weekend, and I could really use your help. I'm playing in a game with 6, yes 6 other players. Usually, I play a big tanky class and wanted to roll a fighter. Instead, my DM suggested Paladin to help with the healing duties.

We had a choice, take his rolled stats and roll for hp at each level, or take the point buy and get half hit dice+1. I took the rolled stats: 17,15,14,11,10,9. Should I stick with a fighter for melee fun or would paladin be a viable, fun choice.

Here's what I came up with:

Level 2 Human Paladin
STR: 17
DEX: 11
CON: 14
INT: 9
WIS: 10
CHA: 15
Feat: Shield Master
Fighting Style: Protection
Eventaully Going Oath Of Ancients

My goal is to be a viable source of damage, but also protector for my allies. I plan on picking up Heavy Armor Master at 4th level to make him a better tank.

Thoughts? Should I stick to the Polearm Master Fighter??

[MrUberGr]

A guy in our party plays pretty much the same as you, but with Oath of Vengeance. The polearm master is pretty good. OA in 10 feet, and an extra d4 every time are neat. As for the Shield master I'm not sure you really need it so early on. I'd get Polearm master as the bonus, then go for ability score and then another feat.

Also, I have a question about your strength: aren't ability scores limited when rolling? Could you have 18 (best case scenario) before racials?

[newsman77]

Also, I have a question about your strength: aren't ability scores limited when rolling? Could you have 18 (best case scenario) before racials?


I thought this was strictly a point buy, but my DM said otherwise. I'm going to just go with it. The stats are capped at 20... so I guess it just lets me take a few feats instead of ability improvements. *shrugs*

Polearm Master + Sentinel+Heavy Armor Master seemed like a fun and sticky fighter build. However, I do see the DM's point of maybe having a little extra healing... since there's only 1 cleric for 7 peeps. I was going to use the Shield Master+Athletics skill for the shove. As a bonus action... knock someone prone... so all my friends get advantage against him until his turn.

[Malifice]

Strictly speaking Paladin 6/ Cleric (War) xxx is better. Sadly not an option due to your wisdom.

Definately sentinel for the tanking.

[MrUberGr]

Well from what I read you could have up to 18, if you were to roll three 6s. It doesn't say anything about being limited to 15 when rolling , instead of using point-buy.

[Socko525]

Well from what I read you could have up to 18, if you were to roll three 6s. It doesn't say anything about being limited to 15 when rolling , instead of using point-buy.

^Yup, sounds like a house rule to me

[newsman77]

^Yup, sounds like a house rule to me

Can we please move back to my original point? I'm trying to determine, since I don't have any experience with this edition, which is a better defender mechanic to go with... Polearms vs. Sword & Board.

[Daishain]

Can we please move back to my original point? I'm trying to determine, since I don't have any experience with this edition, which is a better defender mechanic to go with... Polearms vs. Sword & Board.
You probably don't want to hear this, but it depends.

I believe that sword and board will give you more defensive options when facing groups whose primary threat is at range.

However, aside from increased offensive options, polearm master + sentinel can be used to prevent that bastard with 50 melee attacks from getting close enough to people to actually use them. Just stop him with an AoO, on your turn attack him, then take a five foot step backwards. rinse and repeat.

My suggestion? You've got 6 people on the team. One of them is somewhat likely to be a fighter or barbarian, and they can do the flashy polearm swinging thing better than you can. If you can talk them into it, sit back with the shield. That way your party has both bases covered.

[eastmabl]

take a five foot step backwards

What is this five foot step of which you speak?

More on topic. if your DM allows for multiclassing, you might consider taking a levels of fighter (since they may overlap well). PHB is at home right now, so I can't recommend a build.

[Daishain]

What is this five foot step of which you speak?
Just the standard move action, not the 3.5e bonus movement called that. You could go further, but then you'd be letting him chase you across the battlefield rather than a methodical and slow backup where he takes a beating for every step.

[MrUberGr]

The five foot step, or shift, as far as I know doesn't exist in 5e. There is the disengage action. Where you can move out of an enemy's threat range without provoking AoO. You musn't end adjacent to an enemy. And, since you're using your action, you can't attack either.

I believe that polearm is better. Your barbarian or fighter probably won't get sentinel. What I'm not sure of is this: Sentinel states that everything it does is 5 feet from you. When you have a reach weapon, can you use the feat at 10 feet? If you can, then a reach weapon is definatelly worth it.

[Daishain]

The five foot step, or shift, as far as I know doesn't exist in 5e. There is the disengage action. Where you can move out of an enemy's threat range without provoking AoO. You musn't end adjacent to an enemy. And, since you're using your action, you can't attack either.
I know, I'm not talking about the 3.5e five foot step, nor am I talking about the 5e disengage action. I'm talking about simply using the normal move action to move just one space. Just enough that the enemy has to reenter your reach to get to you or those you're defending, provoking AoO and cutting movement short.

[MrUberGr]

Well, then you would provoke an AoO, and even if 18 AC is pretty good you don't want to be getting hit all the time.

[newsman77]

You probably don't want to hear this, but it depends.

I believe that sword and board will give you more defensive options when facing groups whose primary threat is at range.

However, aside from increased offensive options, polearm master + sentinel can be used to prevent that bastard with 50 melee attacks from getting close enough to people to actually use them. Just stop him with an AoO, on your turn attack him, then take a five foot step backwards. rinse and repeat.

My suggestion? You've got 6 people on the team. One of them is somewhat likely to be a fighter or barbarian, and they can do the flashy polearm swinging thing better than you can. If you can talk them into it, sit back with the shield. That way your party has both bases covered.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you so much guys for the great input!! It's a tough call, Polearm Master+Sentinel is cool... but I think so is Sword and Board.

[MadBear]

People it's not that difficult. He's referring to using a pole arm. He'll take no AOO bc they don't have the reach. Then when they renter he'll stop them with sentinel. Rinse and repeat.

[Daishain]

Well, then you would provoke an AoO, and even if 18 AC is pretty good you don't want to be getting hit all the time.
Not following the pattern I was talking about. Combatant A wielding a reach polearm like the halberd with the Sentinel & polearm master feats. Combatant B wielding any non reach weapon. A starts at position 4, B starts at position 1 as below

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-B moves forward, entering A's reach, is struck by AoO and halted at position 2 thanks to the feats I mentioned. A is not within B's reach so B cannot attack, nor does B get AoO on the next step
-A attacks B, then steps to position 5. Positioning is now basically the same as to begin with.
-If B steps forward he will trigger another AoO and be halted again
-Repeat ad nauseum.

Now, the combo assumes that our polearm master is able to hit on an AoO more often than not, and that B doesn't have some other means of closing the gap, but it can be extremely effective even if you only had 1/3 odds of making the other guy waste his turn.

This is especially useful against things you really don't want to be in melee range of, like mummies and wights.

[MrUberGr]

Oh ok, got it. Now another question: can you take a bonus action on a reaction? Cause, if you can, I think this is game breaking. Using the p.m. ability to hit with "the other end" you essentially get two chances hit, and stop him. So if he's trying to walk to you he'll never get there!

Edit: looked it up, bonus actions on your turn only. :smallfrown:

[Daishain]

Oh ok, got it. Now another question: can you take a bonus action on a reaction? Cause, if you can, I think this is game breaking. Using the p.m. ability to hit with "the other end" you essentially get two chances hit, and stop him. So if he's trying to walk to you he'll never get there!

A: the P.M.s bonus attack only triggers when you use the standard attack option
B: the Sentinel feat's "stop them in their tracks" thingie specifically triggers for opportunity attacks

So the answer is no for multiple reasons. Which I'd probably consider a good thing overall.