Little Party, Big City

[nakedonmyfoldin]

I've always preferred to set my adventures in small trading posts, hunting camps, or hamlets (think Diablo 2, no bigger than one of those towns) to avoid this problem. But how does one overcome the sheer size of a big city. I know a lot of people build a city and that's their campaign; with so much to do and see, the players have little need to leave the city except for certain retrievals. I like the idea of changing pace and challenging myself as a DM, but I don't want the PCs to suffer for my inexperience with the setting. So i'll cull the forums and see what I can see!

Honestly, I'm not sure I know where to begin. I realize I haven't really asked a question yet, but I'd appreciate some suggestions maybe for where to start, what kind of adventure to prepare, things to avoid, things to never avoid, etc.

I appreciate your comments in advance.

[fishyfishyfishy]

What kind of book access do you have? A good place to start is to take a look at large cities in published settings. Sharn and Stormreach in Eberron both have entire books dedicated to them. I'm sure you can find plenty of information on other cities like Waterdeep or Sigil.

First you need to determine what levels you want your game to be run at. The city could take on an entirely different feel depending on the details of your setting. Sharn for example had a very distinct feel to it. Tall towers that extend impossibly up into the sky, with interconnecting bridges, bright magically lit highways, and floating citadels. Such a place might feel out of place in a low magic setting.

The next step is to populate the city. Figure out what factions are present and how they interact with each other. Who's in charge? How does the economy run? How do people pass time?

[Extra Anchovies]

Cityscape is your friend here; even if you don't have time to read the whole thing, you can still just look at the chapter full of premade cities (there's six or so, I think).

[nakedonmyfoldin]

The PCs will start at lvl 1, and I have plenty of books and can always download more. There's something to be said for human suggestions though. Just don't know if I'm convinced of the effectiveness of cities. I think I'm most confused about distances, movement, and directions. If a player wants to hit a shop, does he just go to the shop like poof? Does he know where the shop is, or does he have to ask around? These seem like cumbersome rolls that could be easily excised. However, what if I want the players to run into some trouble on the way to the shop? Some of these rolls would be necessary.

I'll look into Cityscape again, I've breezed over it before but not for a long time.

[VoxRationis]

Keeping a paper map of the city on hand to chart the PCs' location is a good idea. Realistically, it's really easy to get lost in a big city, particularly one which is new to one, or which, like many medieval cities, eschews a grid street layout and has no street signs. I'd make at least the first few occasions of "I want to go to this new place" be a little difficult, unless they have some reason why it would be simpler.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Gather Information and Knowledge Local should cover that type of thing.

[Curbstomp]

Try running Saltmarsh from DMG II. It has an entire premade city complete with maps, plot hooks, and adventures.

[Greenish]

If a player wants to hit a shop, does he just go to the shop like poof? Does he know where the shop is, or does he have to ask around? These seem like cumbersome rolls that could be easily excised.If there's no particular reason NPCs don't want to cooperate with the PCs, they'll get the directions to the shop eventually. No need for rolling.


However, what if I want the players to run into some trouble on the way to the shop? Some of these rolls would be necessary.If you want them to run into trouble, have them run into trouble. If you want them to be able to avoid running into trouble, determine what sort of roll that is and roll it.


I've been reading up AngryDM (http://angrydm.com/category/articles/run-a-game/) on skill systems and adjucating actions, it's good stuff.

[VoxRationis]

Except a lot of people give directions that are difficult to follow, and in a city, particularly one in a fantasy story, there are a lot of complications that can arise on the trip between point A and point B. In theory, your characters can just ask the way to Drakesfire Pinnacle or whatever in the middle of the wilderness and get there, no rolling needed, but stuff tends to crop up along the way.

[Trasilor]

I've always preferred to set my adventures in small trading posts, hunting camps, or hamlets (think Diablo 2, no bigger than one of those towns) to avoid this problem. But how does one overcome the sheer size of a big city. I know a lot of people build a city and that's their campaign; with so much to do and see, the players have little need to leave the city except for certain retrievals. I like the idea of changing pace and challenging myself as a DM, but I don't want the PCs to suffer for my inexperience with the setting. So i'll cull the forums and see what I can see!

Honestly, I'm not sure I know where to begin. I realize I haven't really asked a question yet, but I'd appreciate some suggestions maybe for where to start, what kind of adventure to prepare, things to avoid, things to never avoid, etc.

I appreciate your comments in advance.

I suggest you start small and add sections as needed.

Most people who live in a big city, tend not go much further than their own neighborhood. It's not that they don't want to, its that they don't need to.

People tend to congregate with like minded individuals with shared values and culture. This is why cities have "Little Italy" or "Chinatown". Your large city should also have these qualities. Additionally, most cities are divided into commercial and residential sections - shops tend to cluster with shops, while residential tend to cluster with residential. Finally, cities will also be divided among financial/influential lines. Those with wealth or influence will tend to live away from those with out.

Characters from the city, should know about all the various districts etc. The would know the shops near where they grew up.

Finding a shop should be easy. However, you should take into account the dynamic of the party when dealing with various groups within the city. A party of all humans should have a more difficult time anytime they are in a non-human section.

Things you should consider:
Size of the big city - (big difference between 1,000,000,000 and 1,000,000 people but both are "Large" cities)
Population Distribution - Big cities attract a lot of people from all around. D&D has many sentient creatures - much more than presented in PHB.
More Resources - If you go by the DMG, a large city will have high level NPCs. You should be prepared for the possibility that PCs will seek them out for help.

Whatever you do, just make sure your players know that it will be a city campaign - it can be frustrating to make a wilderness based character stuck in the city.

[SciChronic]

get some vague plot hooks prepared for the party such as rumors about a foreign dignitary dying in the city, odd smell coming from an alchemy shop, one of the PCs gets pickpocketed, etc.

one the first day, just let the players do what they want. Let them run into all of the plot hooks and then choose which path they want to take, and you can then go from there.

[Lightlawbliss]

my tips on making a city:
decide Major land/tactical features first.
Use this to decide why people first came to this spot. This initial reason needs to be enough to both create and maintain a chain reaction of growth.

also decide your population ratio up front, not just races but also wealth, recorce access, classes, and all that fun stuff. This controls more then you may think at first.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Trasilor
…big difference between 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 people….

Looks oddly similar to me.

:smalltongue:

[Trasilor]

Looks oddly similar to me.

:smalltongue:

thats what I get for typing while working :smallbiggrin:

[oldkingkoal]

I find dropping a little chaos into your projects does wonders with compensating for a a lack of experience. Random generators help a lot for situations like this.
I'm not saying follow the generators to the T, but they give you a good base to build off of

There are quite a few random generators that are geared towards cities.
for instance if you want a hook for an encounter, there's a generator for that.
http://www.roleplayingtips.com/city-encounter-generator/

This ones pretty cool for fleshing things out.
http://www.mathemagician.net/town.html


If you want a good Map generator I found this download with a little google-fu. I tried it and it works pretty awesome for making a rough layout for a city. Emphasis on Rough, but I love the natural flow it creates, and that's is a GREAT start to build from.
http://www.rpglibrary.org/software/rpg_city_map_generator/

There's a big'ol list of em here, not all geared towards cities, but still cool.
https://sites.google.com/a/jadetiger.org/randomtables/random-generators

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Trasilor
...thats what I get for typing while working....

I assume you meant 100,000 vs. 1,000,000? Because those are both extremely large cities by medieval or Renaissance standards, but there's certainly a world of difference between the two populations.


Originally Posted by Trasilor
If you go by the DMG, a large city will have high level NPCs. You should be prepared for the possibility that PCs will seek them out for help.

And this is an extremely good point here.

.

[Judge_Worm]

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the dmg is your friend here, my version (the pdf) has specific info regarding it, I don't see why the print version would be any different. The info about the districts in particular are useful, I personally often increase the size upwards of ten to a hundredfold.