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View Full Version : Undead Templates: Generally more beneficial for spellcasters?


atemu1234
2014-09-23, 07:29 AM
As opposed to martial characters, I mean. Look at the vampire template- it's got a whole bunch of abilities based off of Charisma, which is the go-to dump stat for anything that isn't a spellcaster. Sure, it gives a strength boost- but you also see the D12 hit die and the loss of constitution bonuses. Most martial characters I see have constitutions of something like 14-17. Assuming a D10 or D8 hit die (averaging 5.5 and 4.5) when compared to a D12 (6.5) you're losing hit points. A spellcaster (D4, 2.5, with constitution of ~12) would gain hit points.

Thoughts?
Vhaidara
2014-09-23, 07:36 AM
Oh, it's even better than that.

You get immunity to most things requiring a Fort save. What is generally the weakness of a caster?
You don't have to sleep, so you can spend nights crafting. Who has crafting that's actually useful?
You lose the 0-(-10) cushion of HP. Who isn't planning on getting hit, ever?
Gwendol
2014-09-23, 07:37 AM
A paladin vampire (of tyranny?) could do well I guess. In any case it's the LA that is the real killer, and in that respect casters are worse off than warrior types.
Vhaidara
2014-09-23, 07:39 AM
A paladin vampire (of tyranny?) could do well I guess. In any case it's the LA that is the real killer, and in that respect casters are worse off than warrior types.

Not really. The vampire LA is equally bad for everyone. However, ECL 9 Vampire PoT has 12 HP and some AC. ECL 9 Vampire Conjurer has Abrupt Jaunt. And 12 HP.
Thurbane
2014-09-23, 07:49 AM
A Necropolitan Ranger (or other full BAB type with d8 HD) wouldn't be any worse off than, say, a human Ranger with 14 Con.

If you can get LA buyoff, Gravetouched Ghoul is a decent template for melee types - natural attacks, paralysis, Str +2, Dex +4...although with +4 Wis is still probably more appealing to casters.
Snowbluff
2014-09-23, 07:53 AM
A Necropolitan Ranger (or other full BAB type with d8 HD) wouldn't be any worse off than, say, a human Ranger with 14 Con.

If you can get LA buyoff, Gravetouched Ghoul is a decent template for melee types - natural attacks, paralysis, Str +2, Dex +4...although with +4 Wis is still probably more appealing to casters.

Mhm. With Human Heritage, you would maintain a good range of immunities with few of the weaknesses.
sleepyphoenixx
2014-09-23, 07:53 AM
No PC benefits from being a vampire. Necropolitan on the other hand is useful for everyone, especially if you include Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Higher HP, more skills, tons of immunities... the only practical downside is that you're a rotting corpse, but most people don't seem to be bothered by that.
Snowbluff
2014-09-23, 07:55 AM
No PC benefits from being a vampire. Necropolitan on the other hand is useful for everyone, especially if you include Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Higher HP, more skills, tons of immunities... the only practical downside is that you're a rotting corpse, but most people don't seem to be bothered by that.

The Savage Progression is pretty useful, if you know what you want. The same is true for ghost.
Sir Garanok
2014-09-23, 12:34 PM
Energy drain,blood drain are pretty good for melee,especially monks.

And fast healing is better for martial classes.

Caster's would probably have an advantage due to hp die.
ShurikVch
2014-09-23, 01:36 PM
No PC benefits from being a vampire. Beware the Vampiric Dragon Dragonwrought Kobold... :smallwink:
Vhaidara
2014-09-23, 03:04 PM
Beware the Vampiric Dragon Dragonwrought Kobold... :smallwink:

Vampiric Dragon != Vampire. Vampire eats 8 LA.
ShurikVch
2014-09-23, 03:25 PM
Vampiric Dragon != Vampire. Vampire eats 8 LA.
Indeed!
But Vampiric Dragon can make Vampires... http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/DurkonVampire_zps6711c6b8.png

(Also, how about Anthropomorphic Vampire Bat? :amused:)
Threadnaught
2014-09-23, 03:25 PM
Vampiric Dragon != Vampire. Vampire eats 8 LA.

Vampiric Dragon is in Draconomicon, +5 Level Adjustment.

Dragonwrought Kobolds qualify.
Jergmo
2014-09-23, 03:27 PM
Overall vampires are best suited as NPCs. LA +6 is just too painful for the package.

So when you get into NPCs, forget mages, forget fighters... vampire clerics are terrifying.

As a DM, I made an unusually large party of PCs cry with a feral vampire cleric that was the same level.
Threadnaught
2014-09-23, 04:06 PM
Overall vampires are best suited as NPCs. LA +6 is just too painful for the package.

+8 for Vampire, or +5 if you're referring to Vampiric Dragon.


As a DM, I made an unusually large party of PCs cry with a feral vampire cleric that was the same level.

What's the big deal about Vampire Clerics?

I'm legit curious.
Vhaidara
2014-09-23, 04:24 PM
Vampiric Dragon is in Draconomicon, +5 Level Adjustment.

Dragonwrought Kobolds qualify.

I know, which is why I pointed out that Vampire != Vampiric Dragon.
Sith_Happens
2014-09-23, 06:51 PM
What's the big deal about Vampire Clerics?

I'm legit curious.

1. Have at least some use for every attribute, and therefore reap maximum benefit from the template's attribute increases.

2. Can bolster themselves if the PCs get any ideas about turning/rebuking them.

3. Are Clerics. 'Nuff said.