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Azmordael
2014-09-23, 08:11 AM
I've had a read through the "Dervish handbook" located in some dark corner of the internet. But I've been issued a challenge to build a character that "breaks" the boundaries for attacks per round. So I immediately thought "Warblade" Thinking of the Diamond Mind Maneuver "Time Stands Still"


Diamond Mind (Strike)
Level: Swordsage 9 (Four Diamond Mind maneuvers), Warblade 9 (Four Diamond Mind maneuvers),
Components:
Casting Time: 1 full-round action
Range: Personal
Target: You

The raindrops themselves stand still as you act at the speed of thought. You move like a blur, catching your enemies by surprise with a complex action carried out in a tiny fraction of the time normally needed to complete it.
In an unmatched burst of speed, agility, and decisive action, you move more quickly than the eye can follow. You can lash out with your blade, striking your opponent so rapidly that observers can’t keep track of your moves.
As part of this maneuver, you can use a full attack action two times in succession. Take your first full attack as normal. Once you have resolved those attacks, you can then take another full attack action. You must resolve these actions separately. You cannot combine the attacks provided by both actions as you wish. Instead, you must take them separately and in order as normal for a full attack.

My theory behind this is rather simple: TWF, A thousand Cuts, Time stands still.

A Thousand Cuts States:


A Thousand Cuts (Ex): When a dervish reaches 10th level, once per day she may double the number of melee attacks she makes while performing a full attack action (whether in a dervish dance or not). If a dervish uses this ability in conjunction with her dervish dance, she can make up to two attacks between moves.
The dervish also gains the benefit of the Great Cleave feat with slashing weapons while performing a thousand cuts, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. She does not have to move 5 feet before making any extra attacks granted by this ability.
A dervish using this ability can receive an extra attack from the haste spell, but the bonuses provided by the spell do not stack with the bonuses granted by the class.

So when making a single full attack action, I double it. through Thousand Cuts, The question stands at does Time Stands still double the TOTAL or just add an extra X Attacks. Obviously for the build to work I am looking at easily epic level. If I wanted it to be "perfect" I'd throw in Tempest to negate more TWF minuses. But I am looking for some clarity on this, if it works the way I'm thinking in epic that'd easily be
Twenty attacks with each hand. If it doesn't work as I think - it'd be about fifteen attacks with each hand (I am counting Perfect Two-weapon fighting).

But other than that I am also looking for some crazier ideas such as making Crash Bandicoot (Another DM Request, with permission to use a Chaotic Monk rather than lawful) To which I am thinking of using the Dervish again due to the Dervish Dance ability. So if anyone has advice for that aswell I am open to suggestions! :)

Kind Regards - Azmordael

sleepyphoenixx
2014-09-23, 08:21 AM
A Druid 9 with Aberration Wild Shape in Darktentacles form with Improved Multiweapon Fighting gets 24 attacks in a full attack - 12 at full AB and 12 iteratives at -5. A human gets enough feats to qualify for Dervish at level 10 with that.

Azmordael
2014-09-23, 08:25 AM
A Druid 9 with Aberration Wild Shape in Darktentacles form with Improved Multiweapon Fighting gets 24 attacks in a full attack - 12 at full AB and 12 iteratives at -5. A human gets enough feats to qualify for Dervish at level 10 with that.

I like your thinking, that is definately quite tasty, and gives room for a few more things!

Red Fel
2014-09-23, 08:52 AM
So when making a single full attack action, I double it. through Thousand Cuts, The question stands at does Time Stands still double the TOTAL or just add an extra X Attacks. Obviously for the build to work I am looking at easily epic level. If I wanted it to be "perfect" I'd throw in Tempest to negate more TWF minuses. But I am looking for some clarity on this, if it works the way I'm thinking in epic that'd easily be
Twenty attacks with each hand. If it doesn't work as I think - it'd be about fifteen attacks with each hand (I am counting Perfect Two-weapon fighting).

I'm not sure that's quite how it works. Time Stands Still allows you to take two full attack actions. A Thousand Cuts allows you to double a (single) full attack action once per day. The combination of the two, then, would be one full attack action (base), another full attack action (doubled by Thousand Cuts), and a third full attack action (added by Time Stands Still).

That's a lot of attacks for a nova, but it's kind of obnoxious that a Warblade or Swordsage gets TSS as a reusable bag of awesome, and Dervish gets ATC as a 1/day meh.

Now, if you want a terrifying onslaught of attacks, one of the great staples is (Dragonblood race) Warblade/Totemist. Load up on natural weapons, Time Stands Still for your nova, and Stormguard Warrior for damage explosions. Admittedly, Dervish is already feat intensive, but Stormguard Warrior can make Dervish even more absurd.

Heliomance
2014-09-23, 08:56 AM
If you're trying to break existing boundaries, your target is 1,067,212 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=146.0) attacks.

Azmordael
2014-09-23, 09:23 AM
If you're trying to break existing boundaries, your target is 1,067,212 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=146.0) attacks.

Interesting interesting, sadly the character needs to be a normal humanoid. Mosterous my DM said he's already got it on paper to put against the group. Though that post you linked to did give me the idea of turning this character into Gilgamesh....

Rebel7284
2014-09-23, 09:49 AM
To optimize the number of attacks, I typically do shadowpouncing.

When you full attack every time you teleport, and you can teleport 3-4 or more times a round, you end up with some crazy number of attacks.

My favorite build with that is psionic. Fission + Dimention Swap = 2 Full attacks for the cost of 3 power points. Then 2 full attacks again when your fissioned clone does the same.

It can get much, much sillier if you use Ardent with Dominant Ideal and Customize Mantle. Silly as in 8+ full attacks and more in subsequent rounds.

ShurikVch
2014-09-23, 12:43 PM
If you're trying to break existing boundaries, your target is 1,067,212 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=146.0) attacks.
This thing is illegal on so many levels, I'm lazy to mention it all.
There is just a few:
Half-Ogre and Half-Golem can't be applied to aberration (Half-Illithid)
Incarnate Construct will turn large (Half-Ogre) construct into Giant, not a humanoid, thus making it illegal for Tauric Creature (also, he will be illegal due to Large size)
Insectile Creature change type to aberration, which is illegal for Tauric Creature

Line "Tauric Creature Templates". If those templates applied to the whole creature, it will have whopping LA +26. If it applied only for lower "LA-free" part, then it have many type-changing templates, but no of those set type "to animal, magical beast, or vermin". Illegal

Multi-Headed template. Since no Tauric Creature is larger than Large, maximal amount of heads it can have is 3. But even those heads will be lost during "joining" (unless you wish to take extra LA +3):
The absence of the base creature’s head always results in the loss of the base creature’s bite attack.

Hundred of grafts "Leg of Squid pirate Peg-leg" will cost 400000 gp. Intended WBL at 17th level is 340000

And so on, and so forth...

dysprosium
2014-09-23, 12:48 PM
This thing is illegal on so many levels, I'm lazy to mention it all.
There is just a few:
Half-Ogre and Half-Golem can't be applied to aberration (Half-Illithid)
Incarnate Construct will turn large (Half-Ogre) construct into Giant, not a humanoid, thus making it illegal for Tauric Creature (also, he will be illegal due to Large size)
Insectile Creature change type to aberration, which is illegal for Tauric Creature

Line "Tauric Creature Templates". If those templates applied to the whole creature, it will have whopping LA +26. If it applied only for lower "LA-free" part, then it have many type-changing templates, but no of those set type "to animal, magical beast, or vermin". Illegal

Multi-Headed template. Since no Tauric Creature is larger than Large, maximal amount of heads it can have is 3. But even those heads will be lost during "joining" (unless you wish to take extra LA +3):

Hundred of grafts "Leg of Squid pirate Peg-leg" will cost 400000 gp. Intended WBL at 17th level is 340000

And so on, and so forth...

I'm glad you said that.

Just reading that atrocity made my head hurt.

Heliomance
2014-09-23, 01:52 PM
Hundred of grafts "Leg of Squid pirate Peg-leg" will cost 400000 gp. Intended WBL at 17th level is 340000

And so on, and so forth...

I can't comment on the others, but as for that one - breaking WBL over your knee is so trivial at 17th level it's not even worth mentioning. Assuming unlimited wealth is entirely kosher for TO.

ShurikVch
2014-09-23, 02:16 PM
I can't comment on the others, but as for that one - breaking WBL over your knee is so trivial at 17th level it's not even worth mentioning. Assuming unlimited wealth is entirely kosher for TO. Depend on DM
WBL is for reason, and attempts to exceed it may result in falling rocks... :smallwink:

Heliomance
2014-09-23, 03:33 PM
Depend on DM
WBL is for reason, and attempts to exceed it may result in falling rocks... :smallwink:

Again, TO. The DM is irrelevant.

ShurikVch
2014-09-23, 03:41 PM
Again, TO. The DM is irrelevant. If you can break WBL, you don't need to TO.
Immortal basketweaver made his baskets from the very beginning of time, sold them, got money, and hired any single NPC in the world. And every single monster too. Including deities. And Archfiends. His class? Commoner 1 :smalltongue:

nedz
2014-09-23, 03:50 PM
TO means Theoretical Optimisation — the character is not meant to be played, it's just an academic exercise in (ab-)using the rules.

ShurikVch
2014-09-23, 04:20 PM
TO means Theoretical Optimisation — the character is not meant to be played, it's just an academic exercise in (ab-)using the rules. I also heard "Total Optimization" :smallamused:

But even WBL issues aside, this attempt is just so crude!
It's not (ab)using rules, it just breaking them
I'm sure, besides things mentioned by me in #8, there are a load of other issues
It's TO, but it's very very bad attempt of TO
Good TO works by RAW. This thing is not