Help me get interested in the bard class.

[Vintrastorm]

I'm thinking about doing a character with flair and bravado. High Cha, Dex and Con. So far I'm thinking warlock 2 or 3 and then sorcerer, rogue or bard. The main attack would be Eldritch Blast.

I'm trying to get into the bard and if it was 3.5 I'd probably go there. But I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the 5ed bard and it's hard to see the appeal.

Any tips?

/ Jonis

[randomodo]

The advantage of the bard is that it's a very versatile class:
- Full 9-level spellcasting
- Can (with the right college) get spells from other classes (like Paladin and Ranger, and can get them several levels before a paladin or ranger can get them)
- Amazing skill monkey (especially lore spec)
- Backup healer, both downtime and in combat
- "Warlord-lite" with assistance dice to grant allies bonuses (either spec, but best if you're valor)
- Multiple weapon attacks per round (if valor)

The bard won't be the most impressive caster, the most impressive healer, the best scout, or the best meleer (will be the best skill person for many if not most skills). But the bard is quite capable of performing well in any of those roles, and that's the attraction of the class.

[Eisenheim]

Entirely away from the mechanics, this little tidbit of lore from real history has always gotten me hooked on the idea of a fantasy bard. Bards, at least some in stories, used to wear patchwork cloaks, made from pieces of fabric they were given as gifts by grateful patrons and audiences. All the goodwill bound up in the cloak defended them from misfortune and magic. If you need a little hook on the rp side.

[Person_Man]

Classes in 5E are basically about four things:

"At-will" options that you'll be spamming most combats. For the Bard, this is a couple of useful Cantrips and the ability to make 1 mundane attack per round (or 2 if that's what you want to focus on with your subclass).
Short/Long Rest options that you'll use occasionally in more difficult combats. 9th level spellcasting from an excellent list (with the ability to cherry pick spells from any list, if that's what you want to focus on with your subclass). The Bard can also grant a floating bonus to any ally on most rolls.
Passive/continuous defensive combat abilities. This is the one area where the bard doesn't get much. He has Light Armor and decent hit dice, but otherwise depends on spells, which are very potent, but not always on.
Non-combat options. The Bard probably has more resources here then any other class. 3 Skills, Expertise, floating bonus to most rolls, and Ritual spells.

[Vintrastorm]

Thank you for your input. I've looked it over and I'm still not sure it's for me, despite the advantageous mechanics. :) At least not for this character.

[Ramshack]

I think the bard would be much more attractive if they nixed the performance fluff and called it a different name. Most poeple who play in my campaigns, new and vet players immediately dismiss the bard when they realize they'll be strumming a banjo or playing a flute.

I try to explain their more like gandalf from Lord of The Rings. and of course I get gasps and gafaws because gandalf is a wizard. But really think about gandalf uses his sword more than his spells, he's constantly the party leader inspiring others, he talks to the NPCs and convinces them to give aid or join their causes, he does have magic just like a wizard too, and he is super knowledgeable about almost all things.

Seriously if you called the bard a sage, or something i think it would appeal to much more people.

[squashmaster]

Bard may be the best overall class in the PHB. I'd play one but I could never properly RP that sucker.

[Ashrym]

The advantage of the bard is that it's a very versatile class:
- Full 9-level spellcasting
- Can (with the right college) get spells from other classes (like Paladin and Ranger, and can get them several levels before a paladin or ranger can get them)
- Amazing skill monkey (especially lore spec)
- Backup healer, both downtime and in combat
- "Warlord-lite" with assistance dice to grant allies bonuses (either spec, but best if you're valor)
- Multiple weapon attacks per round (if valor)

The bard won't be the most impressive caster, the most impressive healer, the best scout, or the best meleer (will be the best skill person for many if not most skills). But the bard is quite capable of performing well in any of those roles, and that's the attraction of the class.


It doesn't matter which college is taken. Magical secrets is a base class ability. Lore bards just get bonus magical secrets.

Back up healing isn't correct. Bards make great healers because clerics don't get additional healing benefits with the exception of life domain clerics. It doesn't matter if it's the cleric, bard, or druid casting cure wounds or healing word in most cases as the classes start out, and bards add heroism to the list for better mitigation through temp hit points plus vicious mockery for damage prevention plus song of rest for short rest bonus healing. It's when the classes level up a bit that they diverge more and druids can add natural renewal for additional spell slots and clerics add area healing in the spell list, but lore bards just grab one of those at 6th level anyway with magical secrets and continue to be strong healers. They even have their own class specific 9th level healing spell in power word heal, and can add mass heal through secrets. And meteor swarm or wish just for fun.

You are thinking too much previous edition. Bards are also great scouts if they want to be because they can take DEX and expertise in stealth just like a rogue and use invisibility to guarantee a place to use that skill, much like arcane tricksters can. Lore bards are squishy and not much on damage but that's where a valor bard in better armor and multiple attacks gives a bit more to the class in that respect. The class doesn't have the ability to recover or manipulate spells to the extent option among other classes has, but they use inspiration, song of rest, and skills to replace those bonuses other spell casters have with magic. The class itself is on par with most clerics in healing and arguably better at skills than rogues because bards have more bonuses to more skills and expertise for a broad variety while rogues have reliable talent for strong consistency.

[Ashrym]

I think the bard would be much more attractive if they nixed the performance fluff and called it a different name. Most poeple who play in my campaigns, new and vet players immediately dismiss the bard when they realize they'll be strumming a banjo or playing a flute.

I try to explain their more like gandalf from Lord of The Rings. and of course I get gasps and gafaws because gandalf is a wizard. But really think about gandalf uses his sword more than his spells, he's constantly the party leader inspiring others, he talks to the NPCs and convinces them to give aid or join their causes, he does have magic just like a wizard too, and he is super knowledgeable about almost all things.

Seriously if you called the bard a sage, or something i think it would appeal to much more people.Gandalf was based on a bard, Väinämöinen, who was the eternal bard, or a god, depending on reference and timeline. Merlin and Taliesin were also bards. There just wasn't much historical distinction at the time and the role of bards in society changed as society advanced. Bards went to colleges for years and were the superscholars of their time, using poetry as a mnemonic enhancer to help remember information. The taught through parable and told stories to teach more than to entertain. Historical loremasters are part of the draw to the class for me.

Strumming the banjo and playing the flute has not been required. Even in 3.x there were alternative performance abilities regardless of the name and chanting was valid. The option to play an instrument as a focus exists in 5E but there's no requirement to do so or even a requirement to take the performance skill. Bard spells can be flavored as magical songs are remain flavored as spells and simply cast with the components and a pouch. The magical power in the voice is something attributed historically and mythologically that is enabled in the mechanics for bards. The default flavor is the music but the mechanics state stirring words or music with inspiration.

Guffaws at Gandalf as a bard come from a lack of knowledge on the inspirations for the characters; one of which, again, was a bard. ;-)

[Vintrastorm]

... Back up healing isn't correct. Bards make great healers because clerics don't get additional healing benefits with the exception of life domain clerics. It doesn't matter if it's the cleric, bard, or druid casting cure wounds or healing word in most cases as the classes start out, and bards add heroism to the list for better mitigation through temp hit points plus vicious mockery for damage prevention plus song of rest for short rest bonus healing. It's when the classes level up a bit that they diverge more and druids can add natural renewal for additional spell slots and clerics add area healing in the spell list, but lore bards just grab one of those at 6th level anyway with magical secrets and continue to be strong healers. They even have their own class specific 9th level healing spell in power word heal, and can add mass heal through secrets. And meteor swarm or wish just for fun.
...
The class itself is on par with most clerics in healing and arguably better at skills than rogues because bards have more bonuses to more skills and expertise for a broad variety while rogues have reliable talent for strong consistency.


... Even in 3.x there were alternative performance abilities regardless of the name and chanting was valid. The option to play an instrument as a focus exists in 5E but there's no requirement to do so or even a requirement to take the performance skill. Bard spells can be flavored as magical songs are remain flavored as spells and simply cast with the components and a pouch. The magical power in the voice is something attributed historically and mythologically that is enabled in the mechanics for bards. The default flavor is the music but the mechanics state stirring words or music with inspiration.

OMG!!! Someday, I'm going to make a chanting priest that is Bard X / Cleric 0!

[TheOOB]

The Bard is an interesting class, though not for everyone. The base chassis of the class(without a college) is a very support/jack of all trades kind of class. Their skills are second only to a rogue, their survivability is decent but not great, they have full spell access, but most of their spells are buff/support/utility spells, and they can buff their party well. They make your party better without doing any one thing the best(save social/illusion/enchantment).

With the college of valor the bard becomes a competent warrior. Not good enough to be your partys only melee fighter, but good enough to actually have a consistant damage output, and stand toe to toe with the fighter. With the college of lore the class becomes the best skill user and most versitilitile spellcaster in the game.

It's a good class, but their lack of direct solutions to problems means they are not for everyone/every group.

[AmbientRaven]

I think the bard would be much more attractive if they nixed the performance fluff and called it a different name. Most poeple who play in my campaigns, new and vet players immediately dismiss the bard when they realize they'll be strumming a banjo or playing a flute.


bagpipes.

I plan to blast spells of ultimate doom from the mighty bag pipes.

http://newsblaze.com/pix/2013/1208/pix/Ryan-Randall-Fiery-Bagpiper.jpg

[Rfkannen]

bagpipes.
http://newsblaze.com/pix/2013/1208/pix/Ryan-Randall-Fiery-Bagpiper.jpg

Yep, pretty much this. If you don't want to use bagpipes on a bard... well I just don't get you. Maby if your dm lets you use the axe from brutal legend but otherwise yeah bagpipes.

[mister__joshua]

I think the bard would be much more attractive if they nixed the performance fluff and called it a different name. Most poeple who play in my campaigns, new and vet players immediately dismiss the bard when they realize they'll be strumming a banjo or playing a flute.

I try to explain their more like gandalf from Lord of The Rings. and of course I get gasps and gafaws because gandalf is a wizard. But really think about gandalf uses his sword more than his spells, he's constantly the party leader inspiring others, he talks to the NPCs and convinces them to give aid or join their causes, he does have magic just like a wizard too, and he is super knowledgeable about almost all things.

Seriously if you called the bard a sage, or something i think it would appeal to much more people.

My Bard I'm playing as a Shaman type. His musical focus will be a small box of sand that he shakes while chanting (like a maraca).

[randomodo]

[a whole bunch of logical stuff that I'll edit out here so as to avoid a wall of text].

+1; Ashrym, you made my argument for why bards are cool far better than I made my argument for why bards are cool.

[Ramshack]

Gandalf was based on a bard, Väinämöinen, who was the eternal bard, or a god, depending on reference and timeline. Merlin and Taliesin were also bards. There just wasn't much historical distinction at the time and the role of bards in society changed as society advanced. Bards went to colleges for years and were the superscholars of their time, using poetry as a mnemonic enhancer to help remember information. The taught through parable and told stories to teach more than to entertain. Historical loremasters are part of the draw to the class for me.

Strumming the banjo and playing the flute has not been required. Even in 3.x there were alternative performance abilities regardless of the name and chanting was valid. The option to play an instrument as a focus exists in 5E but there's no requirement to do so or even a requirement to take the performance skill. Bard spells can be flavored as magical songs are remain flavored as spells and simply cast with the components and a pouch. The magical power in the voice is something attributed historically and mythologically that is enabled in the mechanics for bards. The default flavor is the music but the mechanics state stirring words or music with inspiration.

Guffaws at Gandalf as a bard come from a lack of knowledge on the inspirations for the characters; one of which, again, was a bard. ;-)

Thank you for this :)

[Shining Wrath]

A bard makes an excellent "swing" character to fill in the blanks in a party, as they can do a little of everything.

[Rootbeer]

Maby if your dm lets you use the axe from brutal legend but otherwise yeah bagpipes.

This is kind of like what I'm doing on my Bard. My dm let me have an axe bestowed upon me by the metal god. Once I day I can crank it up to 11 and I get a spectral band that appears to help me rock out (just for flavor, no real bonus from it). None of that sissy pan flute garbage for me, thanks :smallbiggrin:

[Vintrastorm]

This is kind of like what I'm doing on my Bard. My dm let me have an axe bestowed upon me by the metal god. Once I day I can crank it up to 11 and I get a spectral band that appears to help me rock out (just for flavor, no real bonus from it). None of that sissy pan flute garbage for me, thanks :smallbiggrin:


This made me think of Terry Pratchett's book Soul Music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_Music_%28novel%29

"...the crowd is overcome by the spirit of "Music with Rocks In," which apparently has no musical merit for objective listeners not themselves possessed by it"