Black Tentacles grapple rules question

[Alent]

This hasn't come up in a real game yet, but while running through possible stupid things my players could doTM, I recalled one of our casters had discovered Black Tentacles optimization and started thinking about possible responses to the move by character type, when I arrived at a really strange one that doesn't seem to have any hits on google.

First, the SRD bits:


This spell conjures a field of rubbery black tentacles, each 10 feet long. These waving members seem to spring forth from the earth, floor, or whatever surface is underfoot—including water. They grasp and entwine around creatures that enter the area, holding them fast and crushing them with great strength.

Every creature within the area of the spell must make a grapple check, opposed by the grapple check of the tentacles. Treat the tentacles attacking a particular target as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level and a Strength score of 19. Thus, its grapple check modifier is equal to your caster level +8. The tentacles are immune to all types of damage.

Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage. The tentacles continue to crush the opponent until the spell ends or the opponent escapes.

Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles. Even creatures who aren’t grappling with the tentacles may move through the area at only half normal speed.


If You’re Grappling

When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.

...

Move

You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.

This leads to the bizzaro world question: Let's say I'm controlling a creature with a good grapple check and I've been caught in a Black Tentacles effect and either rolled poorly or intentionally failed the grapple check. If I attempt to move the grapple and succeed on the opposed check, do I move along with the specific tentacle? Or does the entire black tentacle spell effect and all grappled targets move?

[Shining Wrath]

It says you move the grapple, so I say the Black Tentacles move with you. If they are grappling multiple people, though, those people shouldn't move.

The grapple rules really don't allow you to grapple multiple people, but the specifics of the spell override that general rule.

Therefore, I'd say you can separate the tentacle field into chunks.

Also, I want to see the look on the wizard's face when the troll pulls his spell in twain.

[bekeleven]

Joining a Grapple

If your target is already grappling someone else, you can use an attack to start a grapple, as above, except that the target doesn’t get an attack of opportunity against you, and your grab automatically succeeds. You still have to make a successful opposed grapple check to become part of the grapple.

If there are multiple opponents involved in the grapple, you pick one to make the opposed grapple check against.

Multiple Grapplers
Several combatants can be in a single grapple. Up to four combatants can grapple a single opponent in a given round. Creatures that are one or more size categories smaller than you count for half, creatures that are one size category larger than you count double, and creatures two or more size categories larger count quadruple.

When you are grappling with multiple opponents, you choose one opponent to make an opposed check against. The exception is an attempt to escape from the grapple; to successfully escape, your grapple check must beat the check results of each opponent.
You can move the whole shebang, but you have to beat the grapple check of anybody there that wants to resist it. In general, they are there because they lost a grapple check to the spell, so if you beat that you're still good.

Edit: Now I want to see the raging barbarian chase the wizard down with his own black tentacles. I picture him hoisting a mass of tentacles above his head and sprinting around after some blue-robed pencil neck, and then maybe they run into different doors on a large hallways like a bawdy french farce.

[Galen]

It makes much more sense that just the one grappling tentacle will move.


Also, I want to see the look on the wizard's face when the troll pulls his spell in twain.
However, if you want to troll the player by having the entire field (and everyone grappled by it) to move, there's really nothing in the rules to prevent this.

[Daishain]

I always pictured the things as being attached to the floor. If that's the case, you could shift it around within its reach, but moving further would require shifting a portion of the floor itself (since the tentacles can't be damaged)

Technically possible, but that would be one hell of a strength check.

[Alent]

You can move the whole shebang, but you have to beat the grapple check of anybody there that wants to resist it. In general, they are there because they lost a grapple check to the spell, so if you beat that you're still good.

Edit: Now I want to see the raging barbarian chase the wizard down with his own black tentacles. I picture him hoisting a mass of tentacles above his head and sprinting around after some blue-robed pencil neck, and then maybe they run into different doors on a large hallways like a bawdy french farce.

Yeah, that edit basically describes the end result I was imagining at the absurd end of RAW. The caster in question tends to stand too close to his own AoE effects and won't be flying due to setting rules. This leads to the interesting question of who would roll the opposed grapple check when the wizard gets grappled by his own spell. (I said it was a bizarro world question. :mitd: )

When I leave RAW and try to divine RAI with a dowsing rod while moving the ouji board with my toes, I think the wording on Black Tentacles implies that you are "moving the grapple" and escape it when you leave the spell effect, but the wording says something completely different to the degree that such a ruling is rewriting the spell. (Something that probably needs to be done anyway...)

[bekeleven]

Welp, this actually came up in my session just a few hours ago.

Enemy caster dropped black tentacles on the party. The party includes a character who was reincarnated into a giant crocodile. He had +23 grapple.

In the end he decided not to bull rush the caster with the man's own tentacles. Something about the sanctity of life, I guess?

[Alent]

Welp, this actually came up in my session just a few hours ago.

Enemy caster dropped black tentacles on the party. The party includes a character who was reincarnated into a giant crocodile. He had +23 grapple.

In the end he decided not to bull rush the caster with the man's own tentacles. Something about the sanctity of life, I guess?

He was probably saving them for the cat girls.

Did you discuss the possibility with the crocodile's player? Because I don't think I would have even considered it an option if not for the fact that the Grapple Speedball is something of an inside joke at my table.

I'm still torn in both directions on the idea, primarily because it's an odd case of Fighters being able to use RAW to havesteal nice things... but it just doesn't make sense. Does that mean this is a raw dysfunction? or does that have to require actual rules conflicts?