Need to boost my dual wielder's Attack Rolls and Armour Class

[Dusk Eclipse]

Right now I'm playing in a pbp campaign in these forums, and while I've been having loads of fun with my current character (the link to his character sheet is in my sig, it is the rightmost picture) I've been having trouble hitting consistently while I'm getting hit quite often,which isn't that bad considering I'm the frontliner of the party, but I'm draining a lot of our Cleric spells to stay healthy (yes we know wands of lesser vigour exist, but due our current situation getting hold of them is practically impossible).

Right now Stephan (the character) has a +15 attack bonus, but since it is a two weapon fighter I'm usually looking at +13 before using Power Attack, yes I know that is part of the problem, specially since I don't get the 1:2 PA ratio till next level, but I'm adamant on making a working TWF that doesn't rely on sneak attack. AC wise he has 20 base AC, but it usually swings between 23-25ish (Pearl of Black doubt stance and dodge), but it simply isn't enough. Stephan has ways to substitute his AC (wall of blades) or simply force misses (Elusive Target), but they haven't been as reliable as I originally hoped they would be so I also need help with that. I do plan to get some miss chances but as I mentioned before buying items isn't feasible right now, we are currently trying to reach a Drow city and are traversing through the underdark "wilderness", we might reach the city really soon though.

My build is pretty much set in stone as far as feats go, so magic items are pretty much the only way to boost my attack rolls, the less situational the items are the best, but at this point I'm open to all suggestion though try to keep to the MiC if possible.

Thanks in advance

[Ellowryn]

Unfortunately AC sucks. It doesn't really scale, while the to-hit of enemies scales almost exponentially. As you mentioned before, miss chance is the way to go but see as you don't seem to have access to magic items that is going to rely on your arcane caster to help you (if he even can). The only other way i can see to help you is to look at debuffing your enemies: being prone, blinded, slowed, dazed, etc help to either reduce the enemies chance to hit you or the total number of times it can actually try and attack.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I know that AC doesn't scales well, but having some AC is nice no matter wise. Normally I can get displacement or blur from the party's Beguiler but I don't like having to ask him every battle to get one. I'm definitely planning to pick up a cloak of displacement ASAP, but I want to have other options.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Hi, I'm another player in the game (I invited Dusk, actually) and I'm playing a dual-wielding roguebuckler who does use sneak attack to great effect. Very great effect. Though I've got similar AC stuff; the swashbuckler d10 hit dice gives my character some extra durability but she would have been one-shot this past battle by some drow "Paladins" of Slaughter and a smite good greataxe crit if not for a very timely daylight spell and blindness miss chance. Natalia's AC is a little bit higher than Stephan's but it also varies (she has the shield of blades ACF and a level of Trapsmith which means she casts Cat's Grace before battle). What I'm saying is that I'm gonna look at this thread too. :smalltongue:

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think I've already mentioned it before, but we should look to get a Lesser rod of chain spell for Rhenner, greater Magic Weapon/Vestments would help a lot now that I think so

[Ellowryn]

If you are not keen on stealth (depending on how your DM wants to interpret the fluff) the the Gleaming armor enchant is better at the bargain price of a +3 enchantment plus its always active. If your just looking at any way to increase AC then a Dancing Tower Shield will work (+4 shield bonus in addition to any enhancement bonus without the -2 to hit and 10 ACP) or for cheap you could grab a buckler. Without creating your own magic items you are kinda limited, lets see, Amulet of natural armor can give you up to +5 natural armor bonus to AC, for armor in general im guessing you are using light armor (for your ranger two-weapon style) so a mithril breastplate plus enhancement for a max of +10 AC, for shield bonus the aforementioned dancing tower shield for +9 max to AC, max dex bonus of +5 (im guessing you have about 17 dex so you can just grab a Gloves of Dextrity +4 to bump you up to a +5 Mod), and that's 39 AC. From there you might be able to find a few items that give temporary AC bonuses, but usually they only give a +1 to +2 bonus a few times per day so i didn't bother to add any.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I think I've already mentioned it before, but we should look to get a Lesser rod of chain spell for Rhenner, greater Magic Weapon/Vestments would help a lot now that I think so

That would be good. And I'm telling you right now that my level 12 feat is going to be staggering strike. With 5 attacks a round (6 if hasted) and 7d6 sneak attack every time, let's see any enemies make a save against that--assuming they even survive. :smallamused:

That's three levels away though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you are not keen on stealth (depending on how your DM wants to interpret the fluff) the the Gleaming armor enchant is better at the bargain price of a +3 enchantment plus its always active. If your just looking at any way to increase AC then a Dancing Tower Shield will work (+4 shield bonus in addition to any enhancement bonus without the -2 to hit and 10 ACP) or for cheap you could grab a buckler. Without creating your own magic items you are kinda limited, lets see, Amulet of natural armor can give you up to +5 natural armor bonus to AC, for armor in general im guessing you are using light armor (for your ranger two-weapon style) so a mithril breastplate plus enhancement for a max of +10 AC, for shield bonus the aforementioned dancing tower shield for +9 max to AC, max dex bonus of +5 (im guessing you have about 17 dex so you can just grab a Gloves of Dextrity +4 to bump you up to a +5 Mod), and that's 39 AC. From there you might be able to find a few items that give temporary AC bonuses, but usually they only give a +1 to +2 bonus a few times per day so i didn't bother to add any.

I'm a secondary sneaker actually, so gleaming armour isn't an option for me, tower shields (and shields in general) don't mesh with Stephan's image; thanks for the reminder of the Nat amour amulet, I'd completely forgot about that and they are relative cheap so I can probably pick one soon (it also reminded me that I should probably improve my cloak of deflection). I don't really want to spend a lot on increasing DEX since I don't have Weapon finesse (couldn't afford the feat) and thus I only have 16.

[Ellowryn]

Except Kirito was a Str and Dex based character, one that focused on killing his opponents before they could kill him, relying on his evasion abilities to ward off attacks when he could. He also had an insane scaling fast healing ability along with the switch combat maneuver that let him basically heal up for a few rounds and then switch back in when he was out of danger.

I agree that having more AC is always a good thing but if you are trying to stay close to the character then you are really only going to have AC from armor and dex (plus some natural armor) so you are going to be very hittable.

[Dusk Eclipse]

While Kirito is definitely a source of inspiration for the build, I don't have problems deviating from him (though as I mentioned shields are definetely a no-no for this character); Incidentally, when did I mentioned Kirito? I know I have my interpretation of him linked in my sig, but the link to the character is the picture on the right of the IC trophy.

[Sam K]

Right now I'm playing in a pbp campaign in these forums, and while I've been having loads of fun with my current character (the link to his character sheet is in my sig, it is the rightmost picture) I've been having trouble hitting consistently while I'm getting hit quite often,which isn't that bad considering I'm the frontliner of the party, but I'm draining a lot of our Cleric spells to stay healthy (yes we know wands of lesser vigour exist, but due our current situation getting hold of them is practically impossible).

Right now Stephan (the character) has a +15 attack bonus, but since it is a two weapon fighter I'm usually looking at +13 before using Power Attack, yes I know that is part of the problem, specially since I don't get the 1:2 PA ratio till next level, but I'm adamant on making a working TWF that doesn't rely on sneak attack. AC wise he has 20 base AC, but it usually swings between 23-25ish (Pearl of Black doubt stance and dodge), but it simply isn't enough. Stephan has ways to substitute his AC (wall of blades) or simply force misses (Elusive Target), but they haven't been as reliable as I originally hoped they would be so I also need help with that. I do plan to get some miss chances but as I mentioned before buying items isn't feasible right now, we are currently trying to reach a Drow city and are traversing through the underdark "wilderness", we might reach the city really soon though.

My build is pretty much set in stone as far as feats go, so magic items are pretty much the only way to boost my attack rolls, the less situational the items are the best, but at this point I'm open to all suggestion though try to keep to the MiC if possible.

Thanks in advance

I don't want to seem like a jerk (oh boy, this is starting out well, isn't it?), but you do realize that you are on one hand saying that you are dead set on making one of the most underpowered combat styles work without using one of the few things that make it (somewhat) viable, and at the same time aren't willing to use most of the tools that could increase your survivability.

AC is hard to keep viable in the mid-to-high levels even if you use every trick in the book. Using light armor, not too much dex, no animated shield and not being reliant on outside buffs is really going to limit your options. Can you get custom items crafted? If so, you might be able to persuade your DM to let you buy an item that gives the weapon finesse feat? That would atleast give you the possibility of stacking up some dex for BAB and AC. Or perhaps you could dip into some PRC that gives you some self buffing abilities? That way you won't be asking party members for buffs all the time.

Also, have you looked into items that give damage reduction? If there's an item that lets you cast stoneskin, that should really help you. You'll still get hit, but you'll get hit for less. As you say, being hit as a front liner doesn't have to be a bad thing; if your DM plays the monsters smart, they may go for other targets if they feel you are impossible to hit!

[Ellowryn]

While Kirito is definitely a source of inspiration for the build, I don't have problems deviating from him (though as I mentioned shields are definetely a no-no for this character); Incidentally, when did I mentioned Kirito? I know I have my interpretation of him linked in my sig, but the link to the character is the picture on the right of the IC trophy.

Well how do you think i managed to get what your approximate dex was and what armor you would be using? :smallconfused:

And yes i know you did not want to be kirito, but you wanted to model a character close so as to get the same feel. That being said, without a shield you are losing out on a major source of AC which is already hard to come by as is. Custom items are indeed going to be the way to go, either all day buffs or encounter long per day buffs.

Also, you are a non-caster melee, you WILL need your casters to buff you to stay alive/relevant. Its just how dnd is. It sucks but without the Dm altering how the game goes that is the way things go.

[Sith_Happens]

Is there any way you could get your level-up attribute points moved from DEX to STR? You've completely wasted them by putting them in the former, as you can get ITWF from Gloves of the Balanced Hand and you won't qualify for GTWF until 20th level anyways (unless your DM lets you use items to meet feat prerequisites, but that means you have even less reason to put your level-up points in DEX).

Make your dragonsplits Martial Discipline ASAP for an easy +3 to attack as long as you're in a stance from the chosen discipline (or using a strike or boost from it). Sell the greatsword while you're at it, and if that thing wasn't looted as-is then I legitimately question your sanity for spending 1.5-2x as much money on a secondary weapon than on your primaries.

Your first exotic weapon stunt after Uncanny Blow should obviously be Exotic Two-Weapon Fighting.

Oh, and don't forget to exploit Combat Rhythm for fun and profit.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I don't want to seem like a jerk (oh boy, this is starting out well, isn't it?), but you do realize that you are on one hand saying that you are dead set on making one of the most underpowered combat styles work without using one of the few things that make it (somewhat) viable, and at the same time aren't willing to use most of the tools that could increase your survivability.

AC is hard to keep viable in the mid-to-high levels even if you use every trick in the book. Using light armor, not too much dex, no animated shield and not being reliant on outside buffs is really going to limit your options. Can you get custom items crafted? If so, you might be able to persuade your DM to let you buy an item that gives the weapon finesse feat? That would atleast give you the possibility of stacking up some dex for BAB and AC. Or perhaps you could dip into some PRC that gives you some self buffing abilities? That way you won't be asking party members for buffs all the time.

Also, have you looked into items that give damage reduction? If there's an item that lets you cast stoneskin, that should really help you. You'll still get hit, but you'll get hit for less. As you say, being hit as a front liner doesn't have to be a bad thing; if your DM plays the monsters smart, they may go for other targets if they feel you are impossible to hit!

I understand you, I truly do. The thing is that Stephan's powerspike, when everything comes together doesn't come until level 12 when he picks Robilar's Gambit (another reason why I want high AC BTW), next level when I take EWM and Uncanny Blow things should be easier (though having said that I haven't had much problem when I manage to hit, the damage isn't stellar but it is consistent).

To adress your other issues, I didn't meant that I won't accept buffs, because as you said it is impossible to keep AC viable given the limitations I'm working with; I don't know if the DM is OK with the custom items, I'll have to ask him. I hadn't thought about damage reduction, I don't know of any printed item that can cast stoneskin, but there are a couple of armour crystals that give DR, will look into them.


Well how do you think i managed to get what your approximate dex was and what armor you would be using? :smallconfused:

And yes i know you did not want to be kirito, but you wanted to model a character close so as to get the same feel. That being said, without a shield you are losing out on a major source of AC which is already hard to come by as is. Custom items are indeed going to be the way to go, either all day buffs or encounter long per day buffs.

Also, you are a non-caster melee, you WILL need your casters to buff you to stay alive/relevant. Its just how dnd is. It sucks but without the Dm altering how the game goes that is the way things go.

Believe me, I understand the disparity of casters vs. non-casters, doesn't mean that I like it though. I simply want to be as self-sufficient as possible and that starts with good item selection.


Is there any way you could get your level-up attribute points moved from DEX to STR? You've completely wasted them by putting them in the former, as you can get ITWF from Gloves of the Balanced Hand and you won't qualify for GTWF until 20th level anyways (unless your DM lets you use items to meet feat prerequisites, but that means you have even less reason to put your level-up points in DEX).

Make your dragonsplits Martial Discipline ASAP for an easy +3 to attack as long as you're in a stance from the chosen discipline (or using a strike or boost from it). Sell the greatsword while you're at it, and if that thing wasn't looted as-is then I legitimately question your sanity for spending 1.5-2x as much money on a secondary weapon than on your primaries.

Your first exotic weapon stunt after Uncanny Blow should obviously be Exotic Two-Weapon Fighting.

You are right about the points in Dex, for some reason I forgot about Ranger bypassing the stat requirement for the TWF line, I will try as the DM, though I'm not completely certain about that and I probably won't until I get some more AC boosters, not sure about getting Gloved of the balanced hand as I like my glove of the master strategist very much, perhaps if I can combine them I will.

Martial discipline weapons are a great idea,specially since I plan to spend most of my time in Pearl of Black Doubt, (I don't know why I didn't think about them before), the greatsword is indeed loot and rather important to the character; it was taken from the hands of the head warden at the Gladiator pit Stephan was kept; but we have a cache of enchanted weapons (including a keen greatsword and a vicious greataxe) that we intend to sell as soon as we are able.

I don't plan to take more than one level of EWM, it would screw up with the maneuver progression I have in mind.

Edit: Actually I got SGW for Channelign the storm once I get Robilar's Gambit, but yeah Combat Rhythm has helped a lot.

[Darrin]

Check the TWF OffHandbook for Magic Items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15034723&postcount=9) if you haven't already.

Do you have wand chambers + 1st-level ranger wands yet? Instant of power and blades of fire are my usual go-to wands for TWF rangers, but a wand of barkskin + Glyph Seal (1000 GP, MIC) might help with the AC situation. Stick the glyph seal on a pouch or pocket containing ammo/spell components, and you can trigger it as a free action. Maybe look for some underground fey (Redcaps?), get some prices for a pair of feycraft dragonsplits... that'll get you Weapon Finesse, but drop your damage to 1d4 (bring it back up to 1d6 with Sizing + Strongarm Bracers).

If you're not near anything where you can buy magic items, then I'd try to focus on finding some consumables as a stop-gap until you get to a decent-sized community. Potions and wands of low-level stuff like shield of faith, entropic shield, cat's grace, etc.

I'd also look at getting some concealment/miss chance. Armor spikes + Smoking property will put you back about 8300 GP, but you can macguyver it a bit with Torch Bug Paste (Complete Scoundrel) + obscuring mist/smoke sticks/bottle of smoke/etc.