Alternate form and legendary animals

[Eslin]

Is there any reason something with alternate form (say a dragonwrought kobold with the alternate form feat or steel dragon) wouldn't be able to turn into a legendary ape/wolf/eagle? I can't find anything specifying HD limits everywhere, it looks like I'd be able to turn into a 13HD creature with 30 strength regardless of level.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Alternate Form doesn't change your HD. Aside from that i see no reason why you can't.

[torrasque666]

You'd get access to Legendary Eagle, Ape, or Wolf as the other ones are all too big for Alternate Form.

[Eslin]

I did specify ape, wolf and eagle in my first post. So that's a yes, awesome - new question, what if I cast alter self? Do I alter myself into a dragon (base form) or an animal (new form), and either way do I keep my new stats?

[Tarlek Flamehai]

I did specify ape, wolf and eagle in my first post. So that's a yes, awesome - knew question, what if I cast alter self? Do I alter myself into a dragon (base form) or an animal (new form), and either way do I keep my new stats?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm

Alter Self does not change your ability scores, you keep your original stats.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Is there any reason something with alternate form (say a dragonwrought kobold with the alternate form feat or steel dragon) wouldn't be able to turn into a legendary ape/wolf/eagle? I can't find anything specifying HD limits everywhere, it looks like I'd be able to turn into a 13HD creature with 30 strength regardless of level.

No, you cannot become a legendary animal.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

"A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template."

[Necroticplague]

No, you cannot become a legendary animal.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm

"A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template."

To my knowledge, Legendary isn't actually a template. Its in the same space as Dire, which, while being a prefix to indicate a more powerful version, isn't actually a template.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I did specify ape, wolf and eagle in my first post. So that's a yes, awesome - knew question, what if I cast alter self? Do I alter myself into a dragon (base form) or an animal (new form), and either way do I keep my new stats?

You can only use Alter Self to take the form of a creature of the same type as you. You also don't gain stats and the form is limited by your CL with a maximum of 5HD.

[Extra Anchovies]

To my knowledge, Legendary isn't actually a template. Its in the same space as Dire, which, while being a prefix to indicate a more powerful version, isn't actually a template.

Yup. Shows up as its own set of entries in MM2; there is the Monster of Legend template at the back of the book, but it's wholly different (gives a pile of (Su) abilities).

[Eslin]

You can only use Alter Self to take the form of a creature of the same type as you. You also don't gain stats and the form is limited by your CL with a maximum of 5HD.

Ok, maybe I didn't explain it properly. Alternate form your way into, say, a legendary wolf and then cast alter self - do you alter yourself into a dragon or an animal, and either way do you keep the stats from alternate forming into a legendary wolf?

[torrasque666]

You retain your type and subtypes when using Alt. Form. So you could Alter Self into a Dragon with a max of 5 HD, and alter self says that "You retain your own ability scores." so you'd be working off of the stats at the time, in this case whatever animal you were.

[Eslin]

Sweet. So I can alternate form into a legendary wolf and then alter self into a dracotaur or portal drake!