[3.5 + PF] Credible Threats for A Commoner?

[Palanan]

I'm trying to come up with oddball creatures which would be decent threats for a commoner campaign. I'm looking for encounters which would be unexpected, challenging, and amenable to unorthodox solutions--but which wouldn't steamroll a party of three or four commoners.

So far I'm thinking along the lines of a single tsochari strand, or a single fetid fungus, or at the very outside a voonith (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary3/voonith.html) from Bestiary 3 (one that could be negotiated with). What else along these lines would make for a tough but survivable encounter?

[Psyren]

Wouldn't housecats stand a good chance of wrecking them? You may want to focus on a problem-solving style campaign, or give them some toys to fight with (like a rod of wonder) if you're going to use actual monsters.

[Palanan]

Point being, I'm looking for creatures which fit into that narrow range of creepy and outré while still posing a threat which can be overcome.

I mentioned the voonith in particular because they can evidently be persuaded or won over, which would certainly involve roleplaying. A fetid fungus, not so much, but its AC is low and its damage is trivial, and a single individual would make for a disturbing but probably non-lethal encounter. That's what I'm going for.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Voonith are interesting, but you have to remember they only speak Aklo. As for other monsters/creatures, how about Leshies, and other tiny creatures?

[LOTRfan]

As for other monsters/creatures, how about Leshies, and other tiny creatures?

There are eight races of Gremlin (nine, if you include mites). That alone could be enough for a very fun fey-based commoner campaign.

Otherwise.... it seems obvious you're not going for a Lovecraftian feel, so I'm going to skip over the "Throw monsters whose CRs equal their levels, watch the chaos ensue" suggestion. You could have a world where monsters don't exist and player classes are very rare; in such a world, humanoid warriors are probably the single largest common threat. Perhaps when the players reach a certain level, start throwing NPCs with PC classes two or three levels below the party at them.


Alternately, you could use the LOTR/SoIaF approach; humanoid warriors are the most common threat, but magical creatures do exist and prove to be dangerous for everyone involved. An 8th level commoner is still very much at risk of getting mauled to death by a CR 4 griffon, for example.

[Rhunder]

Birds, snakes, basically any horror movie would work. Bats, dogs, etc. Just make them abnormally behave. They are swarming and lurking, and crazy. The leftovers did a great job with dogs in the first episode. Movies do it a lot, I.e. birds, spiders, and bats. Snakes(vipers) could be dangerous t they creep most people out.

It's all ab behavior and stalking them. This could actually be a decent plot for low level adventurers.

[Slipperychicken]

Birds, snakes, basically any horror movie would work. Bats, dogs, etc. Just make them abnormally behave. They are swarming and lurking, and crazy. The leftovers did a great job with dogs in the first episode. Movies do it a lot, I.e. birds, spiders, and bats. Snakes(vipers) could be dangerous t they creep most people out.

They can also do well in their "normal" uses. Guardsmen and bandits could use canines (and other such creatures) for perception, utility, and combat. It's kind of a game-changer when even your Invisible+Silent rogue can still be sniffed out by a dog and wind up alerting the guards.

[Inevitability]

Stirges can give trained adventurers an 'OH ****' moment, so why not throw a few at your commoners? They'll probably have trouble really killing the players, but they'll freak them out and drain resources for sure.

[Novawurmson]

There's a CR 3 monster in MMII or III called the Fear (only it's horribly misspelled). It has no combat capabilities, but it can screw with people's emotions. Sounds perfect :D

[Telonius]

The environment itself can be a credible threat, depending on what the Commoners are trying to accomplish. Bad weather, wilderness, starvation, hazards like quicksand, or even something as simple as a wolf pack attacking their flock of sheep can pose a serious challenge to a Commoner that a PC with class levels would be able to shrug off.

EDIT: and all of that stuff can be made really creepy with the right description, especially as leading up to a larger threat.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ninjaxenomorph
Voonith are interesting, but you have to remember they only speak Aklo. As for other monsters/creatures, how about Leshies, and other tiny creatures?

Not too worried about the language issue; I can tweak that easily.

And the leshies are an interesting suggestion, thanks. Tiny exploding acorns could have a place here.


Originally Posted by LOTRfan
Alternately, you could use the LOTR/SoIaF approach; humanoid warriors are the most common threat, but magical creatures do exist and prove to be dangerous for everyone involved.

This is very much along the lines of what I'm thinking. There will be a fair amount of roleplaying, and most of the fighting will involve other humanoids; but this will be taking place in a "new world" wilderness, so I'd like to include some unusual creatures to give a sense of a strange and unpredictable land.


Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge
Stirges can give trained adventurers an 'OH ****' moment, so why not throw a few at your commoners?

Yeah, I've seen exactly that moment, and it went horribly wrong. :smalleek:

(Our rogue peeled off from the party during Forge of Fury, and wandered into a nest of stirges. Shhhlurp.)


Originally Posted by Novawurmson
There's a CR 3 monster in MMII or III called the Fear (only it's horribly misspelled). It has no combat capabilities, but it can screw with people's emotions. Sounds perfect :D

This is the fihyr, on p. 100 of MMII, and it's absolutely perfect. Thank you.

Anything else along these lines?

[Novawurmson]

Oooh, the Kythons from Book of Vile Darkness p.178 could be brutal. Even the CR 1 broodlings have Con-damage poison (which you might want to scale down to 1d4, 1d3 or even just 1 Con damage). A CR 5 adult (or two) with some Kython weaponry could function as a terrifying final boss of the campaign - their 20 resistance to most forms of energy damage is practically immunity to anything a commoner can throw at them, so the party couldn't even cheese it with alchemist's fire. A phase organ could bypass almost any defenses they could throw up.

The Alpluachra (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/fey/alpluachra) from Bestiary 4 could be fun. Also, Executioner's Hood (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/lurking-ray/executioner-s-hood) and Pickled Punks (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/pickled-punk) could make for some creepy encounters.

Lycanthropes in general are practically invincible against commoners unless they can get their hands on some silver (or silversheen).

Pards (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/pard) could be cool for a roleplay encounter - could come in handy for taking down a nasty later, too.

[Snowbluff]

How about a swarm of locusts?

[Ruethgar]

The environment itself can be a credible threat, depending on what the Commoners are trying to accomplish. Bad weather, wilderness, starvation, hazards like quicksand, or even something as simple as a wolf pack attacking their flock of sheep can pose a serious challenge to a Commoner that a PC with class levels would be able to shrug off.

EDIT: and all of that stuff can be made really creepy with the right description, especially as leading up to a larger threat.

The book Wildscape from Legends and Lairs has a lot of environmental challenges in it that could be interesting to throw in including swamps of undeath and living forests. Lesser undead are always an option, a Necropolitan commoner with Innate Spell(Whispering Way Animate Dead) can serve as a very minor necromancer.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Novawurmson
*suggestions*

Your suggestions are really spot-on, thanks. Exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for.

The alpluachra is just about perfect for the wilderness environment; my only concern is how the PCs would figure out that salt water is needed, since they'll be strangers in a decidedly strange land. I'll need to think about that, but this creature is just the sort of perilous natural hazard I'm looking for.

And the pards are really cool, even though even one of them could easily wipe out an entire commoner party in a round or two. That 2d6 per phasing attack would be harsh on any sort of low-level group. But they're intriguing creatures, and would make for an intimidating encounter--or, as you say, potential allies down the road.

The pickled punks are just disturbing. I've seen those specimens in developmental biology, and they're profoundly unsettling even when they're not trying to get out.

All great suggestions, thank you. Keep 'em coming!



EDIT:


Originally Posted by Ruethgar
The book Wildscape from Legends and Lairs has a lot of environmental challenges in it that could be interesting to throw in including swamps of undeath and living forests. Lesser undead are always an option, a Necropolitan commoner with Innate Spell(Whispering Way Animate Dead) can serve as a very minor necromancer.

Also good ones, thanks. I hadn't heard of Wildscape, but it sounds worth looking into.

And the mini-necromancer has some good potential as well. I'm not too familiar with the Whispering Way thing, though...how does that work?

.

[ShurikVch]

People say about "Commoner vs Cat" like example of completely unrealistic 3.5 silliness

Yet, in the Russia, population of Tecstilshchik-2 (suburban settlements in Ozyorsky District, Moscow Oblast; about 50 buildings) for the whole week was terrorized by just one rabid cat. Six were bitten, among them 4-year-old girl and her grandma. Finally, cat started to attack machines, and was squeezed down by dozer blade

If such unpleasant cat-related story may happen IRL, just try to image how dangerous may be D&D cat!

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ruethgar
Lesser undead are always an option, a Necropolitan commoner with Innate Spell(Whispering Way Animate Dead) can serve as a very minor necromancer.

Second call for any advice on how to incorporate this concept into a low-level commoner campaign.

I'm sensing some cool possibilities here, and "very minor necromancer" could be a perfect fit, but I don't know much about how the Necropolitan-whispering method works.

[Novawurmson]

Honestly, all you need is Lesser Animate Dead (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/animateDead.html) for a low-level necromancer (Cleric 3 can do nicely). Zombies and skeletons can shrug off a pretty considerable amount of the punishment a commoner can be expected to dish out. Dread Wight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/dread-wight) can create a standard zombie apocalypse, too.

[Inevitability]

1st-level commoner can just go Magical Training + Precocious Apprentice if he wants to obtain animate dead.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Novawurmson
Honestly, all you need is Lesser Animate Dead for a low-level necromancer (Cleric 3 can do nicely). Zombies and skeletons can shrug off a pretty considerable amount of the punishment a commoner can be expected to dish out.

Aha, thanks for that. A third-level cleric would be very appropriate for the scenario I have in mind, and a dozen skeletons would be a formidable force against a band of commoners.


Originally Posted by Ruethgar
…a Necropolitan commoner with Innate Spell(Whispering Way Animate Dead) can serve as a very minor necromancer.

Still curious about this approach, though. I don't know the first thing about how the Necropolitan template works, wouldn't mind an explanation and/or an example.


Originally Posted by JMPerkins
Relevant to your players' (and your) interest - I recently released a free (pay what you want) optimization guide to Pathfinder commoners.

Thanks--sounds interesting, so I'll give this a look.

[DrKerosene]

I've been wanting to do a Commoner campaign for a long time. Are you, or a player, planning to keep a journal or anything? I'd be interested at least.

Are the players allowed to go into the "Survivor" PrC at level 2?

Still curious about this approach, though. I don't know the first thing about how the Necropolitan template works, wouldn't mind an explanation and/or an example.

It's a "grizzly ritual" that involves some undead chanting for 24 hours that the "subject" can't stop once started, costs 3k GP, and I think only humanoids can qualify. Then the "subject" loses 1 level plus 1,000 XP too, if the "subject" does not have the necessary levels and XP it is destroyed with no means of revival. There's some funny wording about when the level loss happens. So, aside from losing one level, you get a Con -- score, d12 HD, and probably some undead turn resistance.

Whispering Way seems to be a Pathfinder (in-game universe) Society/Organization that promotes undead stuff. I was expecting something like the "Evolved Undead" template that gave Fast Healing and an SLA to a really old undead creature.

Also, I think the Incarnate Construct Template from Savage Species has a negative CR value, which might be combinable with some weird Effigy Master.

I assume you're aware of the gitp Commoner Handbook and that there is a massive template shenanigans guide somewhere.

I'm sure the Tauric/Symbiote templates would make interesting enemies if it's optimized to be bad, and that undeadifying base-creatures usually neuters any magic/supernatural abilities from the base-creature.

[ShurikVch]

It's a "grizzly ritual" that involves some undead chanting for 24 hours that the "subject" can't stop once started, costs 3k GP, and I think only humanoids can qualify. Monstrous humanoids too

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by DrKerosene
Are the players allowed to go into the "Survivor" PrC at level 2?

They certainly can, and it would definitely be appropriate by that point. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by DrKerosene
Then the "subject" loses 1 level plus 1,000 XP too, if the "subject" does not have the necessary levels and XP it is destroyed with no means of revival.

Okay, thanks. Sounds like a lot of hassle, in a horrific sort of way, for not too much benefit.


Originally Posted by DrKerosene
I assume you're aware of the gitp Commoner Handbook….

Oh, yes. Thing of beauty.

[HowlingWolf]

Are you limiting the players to commonor, or also allowing for warrior and expert. If nothing else, allow maybe a mix...expert/warrior can create a combat/monster hunting type with skills. Maybe allow them an extra exp lvl.

[Sith_Happens]

Point being, I'm looking for creatures which fit into that narrow range of creepy and outré while still posing a threat which can be overcome.

Pseudonatural housecat.:smallwink:

[ShurikVch]

Pseudonatural housecat.:smallwink:
Savage housecat
"Savage" is template from the Savage Tide adventure path.
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080212040544/scratchpad/images/c/c8/02_tBG_07.jpg
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080212035947/scratchpad/images/0/0a/02_tBG_02.jpg